Looking forward to them! Should be here today and I will install right away. The Copper Foil are bigger than the standard ones. Interesting on the Beeswax Tony gave them 11.5 another reviewer did not like at all? My initial impression was Tony was about right.
I wonder about wax in general very low resonance more than oil? I would think so... Could prove to be very useful in the phono stage where these are going.
Anyone tried Duelund RS? That is my only other option since CAST is out of the question. (now price wise for small special values)
When done EVERY single cap in my amp will be Jensen Copper Foil Paper Tube, Duelund CAST, Duelund VSF, Jupiter Copper Foil and maybe a couple Jupiter Beeswax.
Anyone else have the entire amp with high end caps? |
6 Jupiter Coppers to install! |
4 installed.
The leak on the CAST happens right at the lead...
More to follow. |
Yes, give them so time and you will smile:) |
Well the Jupiters are not fully broke in but I do have some early thoughts.
These caps are heavily damped. Wax seems to be lower noise than oil caps. So in that sense some may prefer them. This might be similar to when I tested wax paper tweeter inductor vs. Duelund VSF. That was a tough one as the Duelund was more liquid and let more sound through but noisier.
On tone controls I have brought treble up from -2 to -4 up to at least neutral.
I will say Jupiter caps do not add to the sound romanticize if you wish.
This is going to be a wax vs. oil test...
I am going to put the Duelund tweeter inductor in again for another try.
Now I read on Tony Gee's site the new RS caps from Duelund are wax? Is this correct anyone know? |
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Grannyring
My guess is 20 hours?
From partsconnexion I heard the Duelund RS are wax?
Do we have wax vs. oil going on here? |
If so that makes the RS very different than CAST an oil cap clearly.
I wish Duelund would chime in here and clear some air and as to why the switch? |
To be honest I am becoming less enamored with Duelund. With Jupiter who needs the crazy expense and I am hearing of leaky CAST caps regularly from folks. Duelund is very good about replacing leaky caps for free and that is a good thing.
I am also confused as to what a CAST cap is! The .22uf one in my work room, cut in half, has no paper in it and has layer after layer of thin plastic or Mylar stuff. No joke guys.
I sense the lower voltage crossover CAST caps, the ones that are wide and flatter, are the most special ones.
I just purchased some Jupiter copper foil caps for speakers. The new 100 volt caps. I will report back to all once they are in.
Thus far the high voltage Jupiter caps have bested the high voltage CAST caps in the electronics I have used. We will see how good the 100 volt crossover caps are soon. The 3.3 uf caps cost $200 each and are not cheap, but they are still priced well under CAST. They go on sale for 20% off at Parts C and Sonic Craft reducing the cost to $160 each. |
Grannyring
Does the label on your .22uf states that it is pio? |
I will need to look, the Parts Connextion site says its a PIO as well as reviews and website.... |
From the Duelund site....page on CAST capacitors. Yes mine do say CAST on them....
CAST
WorldÂ’s best capacitorÂ…
The Duelund CAST Capacitor is our no holds barred flagship capacitor.
The construction builds on the foundation of our Virtual Stack Foil design but does so with the addition of a proprietary WPIO dielectricum which necessitates several days of impregnation under high pressure.
This creates a form with incredible damping properties giving a mechanical stability hitherto unheard of.
On top of this casting process, a ring of hard pressed paper strengthens the damping properties of the design helping music flow effortlessly.
The Duelund CAST capacitor is available for speaker use and as the CAST 630v for DC-applications for size considerations this cap is cylindrical.
Available as pure copper or copper/silver.
Standard sizes 0.001 uF – 50 uF other values available on request.
The Duelund CAST Capacitor is considered the worldÂ’s best capacitor: |
Best to get all caps out of the way, they all limit the sound in one way or another.
Happy Listening. |
Bigkidz,
Nice idea, but in practice it seems to be rarely possible. |
Ya nice idea for sure. Needed in crossovers unless you only have one driver .... And I have not head a one driver speaker I like as much as my two way.
Needed in tube amps for coupling unless you use transformers to couple. But transformers have their set of sonic limitations also. Pick your poison!
Direct coupled! Perhaps, need to know more about the downsides that this design....always downsides. |
On the more follow I was talking about.
One of the leads just fell off the Jupiter Copper Foil. When installing the other ones I was being so careful it was crazy and then another fell off.
I have never had a lead of ANY cap fall off and the vintage ones are crazy strong...
A little frustration lately with all of this two CAST caps leaked and two Jupiter caps leads fell off. |
They fell off? Do you mean they broke off from handling? I have had that happen with caps when I was bending the wire leads too much. The thinner gauge silver leads seem more prone to that.
I assume you can get refunded? Perhaps you should call Chris at Jupiter and talk to him. I have installed over 18 of these Jupiter caps with no issues.......knock on wood... |
I'm considering changing the capacitors in my amplifier's 1st gain stage(associated with the 6em7 driver tube section). The Jupiter Cu foil has my interest(given the praise posted here). However I've been so pleased with the Duelund CAST effect in my DAC and speakers(truly brilliant results). It will be one or the other if I go forward. I suspect that either capacitor will one will be fine.Volleyguy, I'm curious to read your comparison of these two products. |
Charles for electronics go with Jupiter. Just better in tube amps and preamps based on my experience as well as at least 5 others who replaced CAST with Jupiter copper caps.
I have not used them in a phono stage, but have had SOTA results in my tube amps and CD player. They are more even handed top to bottom, have more air and improved micro details. I also find them a tad smoother in the upper mids.
Both would be a big improvement if your amp has a Solen cap or something of like quality.
I know builders now using Jupiter instead of Duelund based on SQ only. |
Everything has limitations. I am working on building x-overs without caps now. Removing caps in the preamp to me has produced the best sound I have ever heard. In my comparisons, the caps get saturated compared to the transformers causing the sound to become (for lack of better description) hard sounds and bright. I don't think that a cap can react fast enough compared to the transformer so they sound a little stressed in direct comparison in my preamp design andother preamps that I modify. I also wind my own transformers because I could not find any company that made them for my design that were not without limitations, even a few custom designed ones. I have spend over three years testing and building transformers to get to where I am happy today. So far, I don't hear the limitations as much as any cap I have tried in the preamp and I have a box full of them. I also tried the Jupiter caps but I still prefer the V-Cap coppers to the Jupiter caps. The V-Caps are much more open, dynamic with more resolution. The Jupiter were a little warmer in the mids but lack the other attributes of the V-caps IMO. So far I have not come up with a design to remove the caps in the amp as mentioned above. But I am working on a hybrid power amp that will also use DHT tubes in the front end, all point-to-point wiring like the preamp I build. Anyone in the NYC area is welcome to come hear what I build or I may consider shipping a prototype one out.
Is there any truth to the rumor that the Jupiter cap having issues with heat from amps (wax melted)? Someone mentioned that they read something about this but I have not taken the time to investigate. I could be way off base here. |
The older, less expensive Jupiter caps had that problem Pete. Not the new ones. I think you heard the old ones, not the brand new copper foil ones. The new ones spank the Vcaps all day long.
Jupiter makes HT flat stacked and HT round which replaced the old leaky caps you speak of. These were and are aluminum caps......not the brand new copper foil. |
Pete, if you have used Jupiter copper foil caps I will buy them from you. I find the Vcaps to cold, sterile and electronic sounding for my tastes.
No meat on the bones! |
I think I have some left around maybe .1uf sizes. What gear did you put the V-caps in? What do you have in copper V-Caps? shoot me a direct message if you can I don't look at audiogon that much anymore |
I have the new copper ones. Are you saying they are not the ones you are speaking of? What is the difference between the HT flat and round? Same cap different size for installation or are they different? What would you suggest for output caps in an amp?
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Charlesdad
Still working in the hours the Jupiters are tight and damped when new...
They have opened up though.
Jupiter's are very low resonance for sure.
People who say caps do not matter is just crazy! Even the difference in good caps is big!
In order to use Duelund CAST in these tight spots major work was going to have to be done on the amp. I am for sure not doing that work and using the Jupiters.
Better than Duelund I need more time on them for that and more time for me.
Wax is different from oil like oil is different from Teflon. |
Hi Volleyguy,
I eagerly look forward to your comparisons, my admiration and success with the Duelund CAST is quite similar to yours. You are a very good reference point for me. I do subscribe to the natural vs synthetic material idea. While I certainly accept the "implementation" argument, I do lean toward the better sound with natural material concept. So I'd gravitate towards paper in oil or wax rather than teflon/plastics generally speaking. My interconnects and speaker cable(Ocellia Silver Reference) adhere to the "natural" material (dielectric") principle and they are beautiful and utterly organic in character/tone with excellent resolution. Take your time and report back when you're ready.
Thanks,
Charles, |
Will do Charles
If you remember I could not use the Duelund WPIO tweeter inductor? The vintage wax one was quieter but there was DCR change.
I can say much like using Poly caps and oil it was weird in stereo at first different discharge rates?
The Jupiter's to me were dead out of the box but do change in time maybe more than the CAST did.
I can say I have been quite impressed with the high end clarity!
Still looking for faults with the mindset you are thinking. |
Volleyguy,
Gon member Snopro has the same SET amplifier as I do. On his system page he says he replaced the stock Solens(used with the 6em7 input/driver tube)with the Jupiter Cu foil. He is pleased with the results and said burn in was 200 hours in his case.
Charles, |
Volleyguy,
I was very interested in your observation that the Jupiters were sounded overdamped at first. I took delivery of a Audio Note Kits Kit 1 Tenth Anniversary 300b integrated 2 weeks ago,(professionally built for me by Digital Pete) and for a variety of reasons, I didn't have a lot of time to put hours on it. When I ordered it, I specified (and provided) (4) 0.22 Jupiter copper foil output caps. When I first started to listen, I was surprised by the poorly extended and bouncy, overdamped bass. Not being used to SET amps to begin with, I was a little alarmed. I knew efficiency was not a problem with my speakers.
Anyway, just a short time into break-in now, the bass is loosening up as well as becoming more extended. Overall, very happy with the sound, although I know there is a lott more burning in to go.
I want to say thanks to you, Charles and Grannyring for making me aware of these caps. I wanted really good ones, and even if I could have afforded Duelund CAST, or even the less expensive series that I have in my DAC, they would not have fit in the shallow chassis of the amp. |
Hi Roxy54,
Congratulations on your new amplifier. The AN Kit amps have a very good reputation for sound quality(I've no personal experience with them). As long as you have an appropriate speaker match you should really enjoy them for many years. I understand they offer various output transformer upgrade choices as well as other parts.
Charles, |
Hi Charles,
They do offer options. I opted for the Khozmo attenuator upgrade (I bought it as an integrated, it can also be configured as an just an amp) and the C core transformers, which are actually the biggest and most expensive difference between the 10th Anniversary and the regular unit. |
Roxy54,
What I understand is that C core transformers are considered highly desirable for SET amps per Audio Note engineer Andy Grove. My amplifier's builder insists on the use of double C core transformers as well. I don't really know the technical aspects but I'll take their "informed" word based on my listening impressions. I believe that you have purchased a very fine SET amplifier.
Charles, |
Charles1dad, yes C Core transformers are excellent and double C Core is what I use in my preamp. As for Snopro, my partner installed the caps. Overall sound was better than what was inside, with better sound stage and instrument separation but the caps sounded a little rolled of in high frequencies in comparison. As IMO, all caps have trade-offs. |
Bigkidz (Peter), Yes, that's how they sounded before break-in. Now the treble is very open, airy, with a beautiful organic tone and timbre.
Once I get settled Peter, you and Carl should come over for a listen.
My listening room is much larger now.
Best,
Joe |
Joe,
At what point in terms of hours did the treble begin to open up? Given the high baseline organic character of the Frankenstein it is intriguing the Jupiter Cu foil increases this attribute further. |
I've decided to give the Jupiter Cu foil capacitors a go in my Frankenstein MK II amplifier. Joe and Grannyring's experiences are very persuasive. I know what the Duelund CAST has done for me and love them. Enough people have directly compared these two and concluded that the Jupiter is the sonic equal or perhaps better for considerably less money. All I require is 1 pair (1 cap for each mono bock) and that's it. There's lots of space in the amplifier for either brand of capacitor. I'm hooked on the natural dielectric material design as well. The more I think about it, as wonderful as the Frankenstein sounds, either of these two should honestly be an upgrade to the generic Solens capacitor (I'll see if this is in fact true). Carefully fine tuning already proven audio components has been successful for me so far. I hope that trend continues with this decision.
Charles, |
I have to report on the new Jupiter copper foil caps for speaker crossovers. These are the 100v larger value caps. I purchased two 3.3uf and two 1 uf caps to parallel on my Raal tweeters. They cost me some $594 for all of them. Not cheap, but wait till you read my review here.
I know I am an emotional or passionate type of audio enthusiast. I share with all here when I like something. I have had past moments when an upgrade really floored me and took my music to another level. Those moments were exciting and fun. Yesterday stands alone as the singularly most arresting moment I have had in audio as it relates to the hardware influencing the music. Words are hard to pick and I am not that inclined to strain for the right Aphile word right now.
Perhaps it is the synergy with my system, perhaps the good Lord has miraculously granted me bionic ears during the prior evening's sleep, but these new crossover caps from Jupiter transformed an already stellar system. I could not even imagine reproduced music sounding like this. Luscious waves of never ending beautiful tones enveloping every square inch of space around me. Music with such beauty, texture and naturally resolved tone that my jaw was indeed resting on the floor.
The only other audio moment in my life matching this event was the first time I heard a real fine stereo system in 1976. I listened to Aerosmith on my best friend's older brother's system and at that moment I caught the Aphile virus. Yesterday was every bit as revelatory.
Chris at Jupiter is very soft spoken and modest. He calmly told me before I soldered them in that they are like nothing else I have ever heard. He was right and now I share this reality with the rest of you. |
Charles you made the right choice. However much sonic improvement can be squeezed from that part position in your circuit will indeed be realized. |
Forgot to mention the burn in process on the new Jupiter copper foil crossover caps. My observations were based on about 6-7 hours of burn in. Yes, only 7 hours for this reaction and I expect further refinement over the next 100-200 hours.
The first couple of hours sounded good for sure. You immediately hear glimpses of the greatness to come. They sound ready to bust-out, but are a little closed in and seem to be holding back if you will.
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Charles the caps are marked with a line on one side of the label. This is the outer foil side. Just be sure and tell your tech guy. |
Thanks for the tip Bill. I'm ordering the Jupiter caps next week and look forward to hearing what sonic changes they will provide in the Frankenstein. Bill, how many hours of use until they began to"opened up" in your electronics roughly speaking? By the way, it was you who introduced me to the Duelund CAST several years ago and I've always appreciated that. Now I'll discover what the Jupiter Cu foil has to offer with my SET.
Charles, |
Charles, I think about 40 hrs. plus they start sounding better and stabilize around 150 to 200hrs.
I think your gonna really like them in the Franks.
Joe |
Thanks Joe for your reply. |
Hey Bill. Nice to hear. Thanks for the feedback on those. Your enthusiasm is what makes our systems so fun and meaningful. Thanks for sharing.
Do you think it would improve and not throw my balance out of kilter on my speakers if I replace caps in my x-over in my vienna mozart grands with some jupiters. I know nobody will know for sure until it is done, but, from your experience with changing some out in some speakers and knowing something about the mozarts what comes to your mind about that. Now you don't have to give me any hope here, because if you do I will probably ask you more about doing it. I have never worked on a x-over, but soldering is no problem for me and I think I can read values on a cap. in order the get right ones. But who knows because I have never done it. Anyway thanks for your info. |
Marqmike
I am 1,000,000 percent sure the Jupiter caps will make you smile big! A no brainer. Just replace the same value caps. You need to first know what is inside and how they are mounted..
No downsides and only big smile improvements.
Glad to help you. |
Wow! 1, 000, 000%, that's saying something Bill. I'd had been happy with a true 10-15% improvement. Now expectations are really high.Look at what you've done.
Charles, |
Ha, no, no Charles. I said I am one million percent sure he will like the whatever percentage improvement!
Ya, Jupiter should hire me to sell their line and be comfortable that I will never over promise and under deliver :) |
Oh, now I see, you "really" got my hope up there for a minute.
Charles, |
Hi all
Been reading along with everyone's efforts here and glad the Jupiters are so promising.
Bill. A few questions please.
Where have you purchased your 100V (speaker rated) Jupiter caps from? I can't see them on Parts Connexion or the Jupiter site. All I can find are the 600V (electronics rated) versions. Did you place the Jupiters into your Coincidents speakers? Just the tweeter?
Cheers,Tas |
Thanks for the encouragement Bill. I will be ordering some soon.
Mike |
