Can we finally put Reel to Reel out of its misery? Put it to rest people.
The format is dying and too expensive to repair properly. Heads wear out so easy and many out there are all worn. High quality technicians are either retired or long gone. Its such an inconvenient format that can be equalled by nakamichi easily in tape decks. Retire it please put them in museums.
I think people want the format to die because they don’t want to make the effort to get involved with it and they don’t want their ‘audiophile status’ in question because they don’t want to go that extra mile...
and I totally understand those feelings
I made the commitment to tape after hearing a tape-based setup at AXPONA 2018. That setup was a custom refurbished 15 ips player with a Jeff Rowland amplifier...if I am not mistaken. I had never heard anything as magical and transparent as that. It was breathtaking.
Is my setup that good. Nope! But it’s also probably 1/10 of the cost, more appropriate for my room, but provides 90%-95% of that magic.
7 1/2 and even some 3 3/4 tape can accomplish a sense of cohesion and that oh so special ‘vanishing act’ more readily than other mediums. (And by vanishing act I mean your system disappears and it feels like the air itself is producing music.)
I own three RTR's, two are Teacs, one is the Akai GX-636. I enjoy the process of threading the tape (I worked in computers years ago when tape drives were commonplace), and the sound to me is still preferable in many aspects to some formats (FM for one, sometimes digital, although that medium has cleaned up its act a lot). Maintaining the heads by regularly cleaning them and demagnetizing them goes a long way toward avoiding performance issues. I think it's amazing that machines designed and built 40 years ago or more can still render music that can be enjoyed with a little effort and look very cool while doing it.
I've never owned a reel to reel, my friend has 2 refurbished ones and loves them, and can get them easily repaired...on the other hand, why bother worrying what gear other people like...
I’ve had no problem getting my RT-701 worked on. Likewise, I score reasonably-priced RTR tape all the time—at estate sales, vinyl record shops, on Craigslist, from hi-fi pals... And I live in the sticks. RTR is so much fun, and no cassette player can touch it soundwise (and I love cassettes!) So that makes you what? Wrong.
@florida71. I too have an rt701 amongst others, excellent deck at 7.5ips, built like a proverbial tank. Just a one year model although just about everything is common with the rt707 fortunately.
I assume from handle you are in Florida.
Likewise but sure as heck cannot find any affordable media around my area. Seems everyone around here is well aware of the r2r resurgence and is priced accordingly.
Average consumers will consume anything that is average thinking that it is good. Audiophiles are not that.
Average is for Normal.
As for R-2-r vs digital, digital has a severe and so far unfixable analog to digital conversion issue, a fundamental issue -that is seldom realized or known at all - by the adherents of digital vs the adherents of analog.
Analog to digital converters are fundamentally screwt, and cannot record a signal correctly. The end.
R2R, on the other hand, is virtually perfect, re this fundamental problem that ALL A/D has.
R2R, is big, clunky, almost messy..but it works. It really really works. Digital is cleaner, nicer, more neat freak simpleton-ish friendly. But it fails in the fundamentals.
So..work vs no work, and analog wins here, if fundamental operational correctness is the desire. Digital is a car that won't start but fakes the dance, like the bear....very nicely, for those who don't pay too close an attention to what is actually going on. As in a average, or normal.
This is not about normal or average and never was and never will be. This is about perfection in all critical areas, and in areas little noted and little understood by Mr and ms average.
@uberwaltz. I’m actually on the Central Coast Of CA but have deep ties to the Gulf Coast. And yeah, we’re kind of behind the times here (my dentist doesn’t have a computer 😳), which might explain my luck finding media. Lots of retired folks around. Pioneer made zillions of RT-701/7s, so parts haven’t been a problem either. Hell, my tech has three of them laying around just in case!
Let's see. Can we finally put vinyl out of its misery? Put to rest, people! The format is dying and too expensive to repair properly. Styli wear out so easy and many out there are all worn. High quality turntable technicians are either retired or long gone. Its such an inconvenient format that can be equalled by nakamichi easily in tape decks. (Q: when was the last year that Nakamichi manufactured a pro cassette deck? Note: I owned a Nak 1000 for many years...) Retire it please put them in museums.
I guess vinny's not a fan; I had a RtoR for years, and would again if I could afford it!
Yes, R2R is inconvenient, expensive to maintain and repair, expensive to get high quality pre-recorded tape, expensive to buy blank tapes, etc., but, there is a reason for it sticking around--it offers superb sound. The OP seems to favor cassette and elcaset as better options. Really? The only benefit to either is convenience and portability, and on those fronts, digital machines are vastly superior and sound better too. If any medium should be "put out of its misery" it would be the cassette (elcaset was stillborn so it needs no euthanasia).
I've had pro console machines from Ampex to Crown to Otari, and home machines from Teac, Tascom, and Revox. Tape is a wonderful sounding medium. Even on my auto-reverse home Teac 4070, the commercial release of the Verdi Requiem on Columbia (Ormandy, Philadelphia Orchestra, Westminiter Choir, Maureen Forrester, Richard Tucker) sounds better than the same recording on SACD, and that in turn sounds better than the CD version.
8 track for me is a non-starter just because program material is often interrupted. And when I did have an 8 track player I didn't think it sounded that good...
...and then there is the fact that tape press-back mechanism inside the tapes can be a problem. Either a piece of metal with felt on it or the worst is the foam-based resistance provider. The foam just turns to tar eventually...
Cassettes are fine. I grew up with them. They sound alrightish. I remember realizing as a kid that tapes made from vinyl always sounded better than tapes made from CD.
Really Larry? Your post is as inane as the original OP. Can you expound on why, in your opinion of course, cassette should be " put out of its misery"?
I never realized it was in pain and suffering tbh but hey I am all ears ( sic).
I’m generalizing but - at least for me - cassettes sound rich, natural, dynamic, sweet, have more sparkle and presence compared directly to their CD counterparts, which sound thin, compressed, synthetic, bland and uninteresting. Cassettes are portable, too! Is the world deaf?
I am not saying that anything should go away. I am merely pointing out that the OP has NOT made the case for putting R2R "out of its misery" and that if there is any logic at all to his argument, it cuts against cassettes because they do not excel in either convenience or sound quality while R2R DOES excel at sound quality.
I don't currently maintain either tape formats, but, I certainly don't want either to go away. I think it is great that people are happy with whatever they are happy with, I know some people still love 8-track; to each, his own. I like, and use gear that is truly ancient--tubes that are 60 years old, and a midrange compression driver that is 80 years old.
Sony Elcaset? Far more obsolete than RtR! "The system was technically excellent, but a total failure in the marketplace.." "No pre-recorded Elcaset tapes were produced and the machines were withdrawn from the market after only a few years. When Sony pulled the Elcaset from the market in 1980, the remaining equipment was sold off in Finland for bargain prices." https://obsoletemedia.org/elcaset/
So the OP and other members of his cult are out to “cleanse” the world of technologies they personally find inconvenient. How thoughtful of them! ?!? Yup, I hope that type of people never get the chance. Next thing, all “non-essential” activities would be banned in their utopia.
I thought that having MiniDiscs and DCCs laying around was perverted enough, but you guys are making me consider Elcasettes.
Now, when R2R technicians are allegedly not impossible to find, does any of you know a technician that would dive into fixing one of the Unitra (Grundig license) machines? I do not think it is even broken but if someone would give it a clean bill of health, I may revisit some old tapes. Wish You Were Here and such.
Sure, put the R2Rs in museums. Those same criticisms can be made about other mediums as well. So what then, donate our tube equipment, cassette decks, turntables and CD players. To quote John McEnroe, "You can not be serious!" And then what, just streaming and downloads? No thanks, not for me.
I guess I am just trying to understand the reason for your post. Analog/vinyl is dead....oh wait...nevermind..
We live in a world where six figure speakers, amps and turntables exist in great numbers and repairing reel to reel decks or replacing heads is too expensive ? Regardless the reel to reel industry isn't taking a single dime out of YOUR pocket
The real point is that if you do not want or care for reel to reel, fine, don't buy or use it, but to "pontificate" to others seems to me to be nothing but enjoying the sound of ones own voice
It seems that vinny55 is alone in his call to annihilate R2R. Even those who do not see it as a format of any significance at this point, do not call for its forced demise.
Still, what do you guys think how many people around the world are actually active with R2R?
I am not sure how to get to some ballpark figure. Maybe number of R2R clubs and their members? Actual sales on eBay and similar sites? Does anyone have any idea? Would number be in hundreds, thousands, millions? What are your guesses?
It’s called creating your mix of songs , from a source such As vinyl record that you record to your R2R your mix of songs or your CD and record your favorite songs,,, or from any other media source but to truly appreciate the analog experience vinyl as a source why is it so hard for many to understand that not to long ago their was vinyl and tape snd not a micro chip to reproduce music i will stay with tubes , vinyl and tape yes it was fun to hear your creation snd going to s store and buying s LP AND IF ANY NEW BLANK tape MFG created a better tape ( scotch, TDK, BASF)
the reason so many have a problem with understanding tape / vinyl snd tubes is everything is press a button or say play with no effort on the other side we came from a time creating something and didn’t mind it toke time to do. now it’s immediate satisfaction
You feel you have the right to an opinion w/o comparing your
Naks & Elcasets
to a quality open reel machine? If you're trying to sound defensive about not wanting to hear the difference you know is there - you've succeeded. it's called evidence & in this experiential hobby, direct experience kinda counts. The kind that stands up in a court of law & those principles apply to any premise operating in the real world. You would hear the difference guaranteed as everyone is implying to you here. THEN you'd have the opportunity to say. "I heard it but its too much trouble & I can live w/o it" Now you're like the fox in Aesop s fable who can't reach the grapes & then exclaiming they were probably sour in any case. Your assertiveness w/o evidence of direct experience of a comparison, leads nowhere else. I have opinions but this is not one of them. Rather an observable, indisputable fact.
Ditto classic cars, or ANY sports car or motorcycle...bad mileage, expensive to maintain, and hey...look how much stuff you can fit into a minivan! Mechanical watches...don't keep time very well...outta here! Great original paintings...can't you just get something at Home Goods and call it a day? Tube amps...sure they sound better if you're into that whole "it sounds better" thing, but put yer iPhone buds in yer ears and there ya go. Although I personally hate earbuds as wax collecting and invasive little bastards (use 'em on airplanes sometimes...so sue me), I enjoy all of the above anyway (no mini van as I think those things are testosterone destroyers), because sports cars, motorcycles, watches, art, tube amps, etc., are fun, and yeah...I really should stop all of this anachronistic behavior and hang with Vinny55, as hey...I bet that guy's a LOT of fun.
I have a Technics RS1500 and love tape but it is more hands on than streaming or the 1000 albums on a hard drive. Question to all here is how many of you use an outboard preamp like Bottlehead and others? Is it really worth the cost and effort?
There is at least 28 people in the world who are lusting over a working Elcaset player. There is one currently at $360 and 28 bids. R2Rs are a little more common. Move over R2R, Elcaset is the coolest kid on the block now.
I have not forgotten DAT which was, at least for some time, a professional's choice. I had it on my mind when someone implied "tape is better because digital sucks". Not that I think that DAT is phenomenal, but it does exist, it is a tape, and it is digital. Still, my heart goes to DCC. It played regular cassettes, too. I wanted to like MiniDisc (another radio station workhorse), but it does make a case for "digital sucks" more often than not. This Elcaset is intriguing, though.
OK, here’s on for the trolls. Who would prefer to listen to a Nak cassette deck, Elcaset, DAT or other medium instead of some of my distribution master tapes on a 15 IPS Studio R2R? https://i.vgy.me/FY946m.jpg https://i.vgy.me/hWJJn1.jpg
How did you actually get them? For example, even in 1998, you could not go to the store and buy that Jesus and Mary Chain reel of tape. Was someone cleaning the closet?
Both are from over thirty years ago. How is the tape? Any problems due to age?
Hi everyone, I'm Roberto from Turin in Italy. I'm the proud user of three R2Rs: TEAC X2000R, TASCAM 34B and AKAI GX-625. Everyone enjoys excellent health, the necessary mechanical maintenance is performed by myself as well as maintenance. The problem of spare parts has been solved by purchasing other identical machines to be used as donors. If necessary of course! Recently, state television has had the assembly and alignment of at least a dozen or so new STUDER A810 machines performed by RAI in the warehouse. This is to be able to "read" the numerous tapes still present in their archives, digitize them in order to have a security back up. The reel recorder is not "dead" or even in agony. It is no longer used for many years in the production of music in the studio, with results that we can all listen to: poor dynamics, extension to the extremes of very limited band, "flat" studio recording. I will not separate myself from my R2Rs, it is enough to put a well-recorded reel to be able to hear a detailed, warm, full-bodied sound! I also use a DBX 224 noise reducer and a DBX 3BX dynamics expander with exceptional results. Often it also improves music by recording it from CD to R2R!
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