Can we finally put Reel to Reel out of its misery? Put it to rest people.

Now above is for playback, but azimuth adjustment was also useful and always changing when recording as well. If the tape’s path and track(s) is/are not precisely perpendicular to the recording head (or at its best angle to it) as we know, you will have reduced fidelity in the recording process. Many cassettes had ’variable’ QC when it comes to cassette shells and the mounting of tape within them (reel to reel shells wear as well). As a result, being able to vary the recording head azimuth for the tape in your deck when ready to record was a good thing. For that reason rec az adjustment was more popular and useful than variable play. Also with headwear it might be necessary to readjust the azimuth after some time.

This will be true regardless of the source of the recording. This 3rd harmonic makes tape good for taming the highs in digital systems, which like it or not have distortion called ’aliasing’ (since the digital world does not like to admit to distortion).

That is a good point. I’m more referencing clipping distortion. Once a digital file has distorted or clipped, analog tape cannot fix a distorted digital recording. A lot of the harshness you hear from a digital recording and digital plugins is from clipping which may be very faint. Recording a digital recording on tape which suffers from the "loudness wars" for example won’t tame or fix the distortion in that instance.

Now I want to bring up azimuth because I feel I only vaguely touched on it. Yes azimuth on tape can change overtime as it ages. As a reel to reel or cassette tape ages its azimuth changes from beginning to the end of the recording overtime, most likely due to loss of lubricant in the tape and slip sheets, and shell friction/variations each time it is played. This can happen and it can become noticeable. 1/60 degree azimuth error is enough to deaden the treble response of reel to reel or cassette. If you are adjusting azimuth with a test tape to enjoy prerecorded music you are doing it wrong.

When you own a Dragon with NAAC correction, you can hear it making corrections multiple times on worn out old tapes that were played many times. Many make judgments on the format using worn out tape, worn out heads, machines that are improperly calibrated, and they wonder why their reel to reel doesn’t sound like a Studer at Abbey Road Studios. This is what Nakamichi actually said in a brochure.

naks.com/products/nakamichi_dragon.html?fbclid=IwAR1FwROEUoCJBteINlT FZe8S5wMKxhLrdeQg8l42t2J_IoOaPCr_lC_x_nk

"Proper azimuth alignment is one of the most important factors in achieving the best possible tape reproduction quality. Ideally, playback head azimuth should be adjustable so that even tapes recorded on other decks will be reproduced with the recorded frequency response and sound quality fully intact. Commercially available music tape, tapes borrowed from a friend, tapes in which the shell has warped slightly (a common occurrence) all actually require some degree of playback head azimuth alignment to provide the best possible reproduction quality. Further, inaccuracies in cassette shell symmetry result in completely different azimuth alignment requirements in forward and reverse on auto reverse decks, often causing a significant variation in sound quality with machines that don’t have azimuth adjustment."

I agree that tape has a different sound than digital, but most of the difference between the two formats comes through when recording and not as much when playing back. A digital recording of a tape recording will very much sound like tape and you won’t notice the difference, but a digital recording transferred to tape will add some colorization but will still have the characteristics of a digital recording. It’s like trying to colorize a black and white photo. The "magic" of analog is the way that tape saturates and distorts in the recording studio compared with digital which can’t handle any amount distortion.

This isn't quite correct. A properly operating recorder will generate a bit of 3rd harmonic (which is innocuous to the human ear). The 3rd is often in enough amplitude that it will mask higher ordered harmonics, which to the ear will make tape sound smoother- particularly at or near saturation. This will be true regardless of the source of the recording. This 3rd harmonic makes tape good for taming the highs in digital systems, which like it or not have distortion called 'aliasing' (since the digital world does not like to admit to distortion). Aliasing is a form of distortion that is best described as a form of IMD in that the tones generated are in relation to the Nyquist frequency. Any harmonics that might exceed the Nyquist frequency are 'wrapped around' back down into the audio band and get interpreted by the ear as brightness.

I have to second that. I would have preferred a cassette or reel to reel comeback instead of vinyl, but we might get lucky as I heard those are making a comeback as well. Better buy them while you still can. Lol! Vinyl is one of the most difficult and expensive consumer formats to get good results out of. You can spend stupid amounts of money on cartridges, needles, arms, pres, and still get average results.

I agree that tape has a different sound than digital, but most of the difference between the two formats comes through when recording and not as much when playing back. A digital recording of a tape recording will very much sound like tape and you won’t notice the difference, but a digital recording transferred to tape will add some colorization but will still have the characteristics of a digital recording. It’s like trying to colorize a black and white photo. The "magic" of analog is the way that tape saturates and distorts in the recording studio compared with digital which can’t handle any amount distortion.

It would be amazing the quality of r2r tapes we could manufacture and release today if we wanted to. Listing to music without any translation to ‘other delivery medium’. Even digital sources would find more life on tape.

A good tape, beats most other available formats/mediums. For most of the music I love, it’s the medium in which those recording were made.

Yes digital in a sense can be closer the Master Tape, but you decimate time, frequency and loudness to another domain full of time and frequency characteristics and parameters that must ‘work together’. And then you have to do it all in reverse and get it right.

Vinyl you need to go through a completely different mastering process. You lose bass in stereo, and you lose bass energy the closer to the end of a record side you go. Plus there’s vinyl impurities. You have to add a special EQ and then remove it at phono preamp due to real physical limitations. You go from Master, to Lacquer, to multiple stampers. Stampers wear out. Scratches, heat, dust, static electricity are enemies of vinyl production and playback.

With reel to reel tape you go from Master Tape, to Dub Master Tapes, probably with some EQ, to Reel-to-Reel tape you play at home.

Which seems most likely to reproduce faithfully the analog event that is instruments and voices making sound?

I feel like I discussed cassettes but not reel to reel. So I want to post that one of the main benefits of reel to reel is that it plays at higher speeds. At higher speeds it’s much harder to distort. So with a reel to reel deck you only need 20dB of dynamic range. Above -20VU cassettes fall on their face. Cassettes got away with less distortion with noise shaping technologies like Dolby and DBX, and the only reason why it required more headroom. Digital recordings of course are most easy to distort which is why you need 144dB of headroom. It’s pretty amazing what reel to reel is capable of and pretty understandable why it was the standard for so long. Cassettes can still sound incredible. It really is apples and oranges. You can't compare reel to reel to any other format. 

Never read a thread with two cliches in the subject line.

Ferrite heads aren’t relapped because its not worth it. Relapping a head only works out if you have a more expensive part and nearly all ferrite cassette heads are inexpensive.

For that reason I have an admitted bias against ferrite heads, because their tendency to shatter which happens to no other head type. Once that happens they are junk. Plus an extra 10dB of noise. I stick with metal heads for my recordings and archiving machines. So while it is true ferrite heads did last significantly longer when they were used, once they get enough usage the glass will crack and more times then not you are forced to replace the head. This is the kind of wear I’ve seen on many decks that used ferrite over the years. Doesn’t happen as much with cassettes because of the lower speed.

Trust me on this? They weren’t that awesome. The typical ’studio’ machines had the transport built into the mixer. They were considered semi-pro; the recording industry didn’t take VHS and Beta all that seriously even though they were a compact multichannel format. Their main downfall is they simply weren’t reliable for day in and day out 24/7 service, and when Something Bad happened the tape was often locked inside the transport; requiring a complete disassembly just to rescue a tape that might never play again. Thank goodness those days are past!!

You’re right it is a love hate relationship. The proof is in the pudding on the reliability of VHS. Good luck getting service on your VCR today. Good luck even attempting any repairs yourself. It is true they never manufactured a deck that was both high quality and reliable. Too bad they couldn’t make them as hardy as good old cassettes.

Funny enough I just purchased a Sony SVO 5800 with an old Betacam 2800 I’m going to be using for this kind of project. I’m going to attempt syncing the output of the Sony with the Betacam as a TBC. I’m posting in other VHS forums and this is going off topic, but it’s become a huge obsession of mine to find out how far I can take the format. I even purchased an ozone generator I use to clean my tapes. :)

The reason I bring up cassette is that it’s a lot more annoying to make adjustments than on reel to reel, mostly you can’t trust cassettes to give you reliable results because the azimuth is always changing.

Cassette alignment is very reliable. The real reason prerecorded stuff wasn’t that great was due to high speed replication. The replicators simply didn’t have the bandwidth. I’ve used pre-recorded tapes, listening to the high end, to align azimuth when replacing worn heads. The setting you get is the same as if you use a 10KHz tone on a calibration tape.

Ferrite heads can never really be relapped but they do fail.

Ferrite heads aren’t relapped because its not worth it. Relapping a head only works out if you have a more expensive part and nearly all ferrite cassette heads are inexpensive.

A 16 track VHS deck would have been awesome to see.

Trust me on this? They weren’t that awesome. The typical ’studio’ machines had the transport built into the mixer. They were considered semi-pro; the recording industry didn’t take VHS and Beta all that seriously even though they were a compact multichannel format. Their main downfall is they simply weren’t reliable for day in and day out 24/7 service, and when Something Bad happened the tape was often locked inside the transport; requiring a complete disassembly just to rescue a tape that might never play again. Thank goodness those days are past!!

The most nonsensical and incompetent thread forever

This statement is false. I’ve seen them worn first-hand.

I should clarify this point. Ferrite heads can never really be relapped but they do fail. When I purchased my Teac 7030GSL with ferrite heads I brought them to John @ JRF Magnetics hoping to get them relapped. He informed me that he could not relap them because they were ferrite heads. We had to fit new metal heads on the Teac he found in his stock room that made a good fit. Often times when they fail overtime they become brittle and develop cracks until they shatter, but they don’t develop a flat spot because you can’t relap the glass that is encasing the ferrite without risking damage to the fragile glass. There are also two different kind of ferrite heads. I’m talking about the ones on consumer decks made by Akai and Teac. No one manufactures new ferrite heads anymore for this reason. Metal heads on the other hand as you know do wear down and develop flat spots very quickly but can be relapped very easily. They are also less noisy so it’s a trade off if you want longer lasting heads.

@clearthink

by the way VHS tape wears like crazy there is a lot of friction in there!

VHS makes a good comparison showcasing the differences between a linear format and helical. What makes helical scan unique is the heads are recessed VERY SLIGHTLY into the head drum. You’ll notice when observing one that you can’t even see the head clearly at first glance when looking at a head drum. All you see at first is shadow of the recessed cavity. Since the head is an electromagnetic device no contact is needed for pickup. Now that VHS is offload from the drum when playback is paused it lasts much longer than other tape formats. There is virtually no tape shedding. We’re talking about audio here, but color and picture information cannot fade overtime from video tape either which is engrained in the signal. It’s not like film.

That is one of the downsides to reel to reel is that they wear out much faster at higher speeds. Cassettes last much longer in that regard.

There were audio machines for both Beta and VHS back in the 1980s.

HiFi is a very underrated format for audio. Dynamic range and frequency response that matches CDs, and virtually zero tape hiss at speeds equivalent of 300 IPS with the moving heads (not a typo). It would have been real interesting to see helical technology being used in recording studios. A 16 track VHS deck would have been awesome to see. I would definitely prefer it to reel to reel. DAT format is not the same of course because that is a digital format. HiFi uses frequency modulation. They called it "poor man’s rtr". Funny enough I’ve considered making backup archives of my reel to reels to VHS.

Seriously?? Head azimuth **is** part of head alignment! Along with head height (on reel to reels). On a cassette deck azimuth is the only adjustment you get when aligning the heads. So on cassettes, azimuth and head alignment are exactly the same thing.

The reason I bring up cassette is that it’s a lot more annoying to make adjustments than on reel to reel, mostly you can’t trust cassettes to give you reliable results because the azimuth is always changing. Even if you adjust to a standard there will never be a correct azimuth when it comes to cassettes even on the best three heads decks. For that reason performance will always be lackluster unless you are making your own recordings. A good example are tapes recorded on Nak decks notoriously sound bad on non-Nak decks. On the other hand you would like to believe that reel to reel will give you more accurate results, but that too is not always the case.

http://www.tapeheads.net/showthread.php?t=70517

The best way I can describe it is this. The azimuth I refer to is what is printed on the tape in response to the record head. No one machine will have the same azimuth and no one tape will have the same azimuth. I bring this up to point out the performance of reel to reel will give you significantly better results than any cassette deck. Not because of the speed. Using the example of speed, 1⅞ ips can sound just as good at 15 ips except one will have more tape hiss. The difference is that reel to reel will always have greater frequency response because of the nature of its azimuth. The way the playback head is being used allows you to pull more information out of it.

Anyhow that has given me the best results so far listening back and fourth. That is how I squeeze the most information out of every tape that comes into my possession. I do not calibrate the machines I use in my lineup. Personal preference.

So, many of the consumer reel to reel decks sold on the market like cassette decks were manufactured with heads that never wear down. For that reason ferrite heads for example cannot be relapped. They never develop a flat spot.

This statement is false. I've seen them worn first-hand.

Under normal circumstances VHS tape will never "wear out" or "fade".

They can shed though, causing them to lose output. And mess of the tape path at the same time.

A common myth is that azimuth is related to head alignment and that is not really the case.

Seriously?? Head azimuth **is** part of head alignment! Along with head height (on reel to reels). On a cassette deck azimuth is the only adjustment you get when aligning the heads. So on cassettes, azimuth and head alignment are exactly the same thing. I started my career in 1974 working on consumer electronics- I've performed many complete calibrations on reel to reel and cassette machines.

A good trick to know if you are getting the best out of your tape is to listen to the mono bass or leads vocals in stereo, or you can even force to mono. Make a headphone cable with the ground removed, and listen when the bass and lead vocals fade out completely. When you null that is when you azimuth is aligned with the tape. Playing a 1kHz tone should sound like baking frying. An oscilloscope won’t tell you this.

Hm. Better if you simply play a calibration tape with a 10KHz reference tone.

For that reason VHS tape had stricter quality control and surprisingly superior sound to all formats @ 1800 rpm. It’s too bad that format was never realized for audio but that is another rabbit hole topic all together.

There were audio machines for both Beta and VHS back in the 1980s.

A common myth is that azimuth is related to head alignment and that is not really the case. Only true when recording. It’s tape and no one tape has the same alignment and it will change overtime. There is no such thing as correct azimuth to clarify that point. Cassettes for this reason are my least favorite format. Reel to reel decks @ 7 1/2 and vinyl will blow even the best cassette decks out of the water for this reason imo.

A good trick to know if you are getting the best out of your tape is to listen to the mono bass or leads vocals in stereo, or you can even force to mono. Make a headphone cable with the ground removed, and listen when the bass and lead vocals fade out completely. When you null that is when you azimuth is aligned with the tape. Playing a 1kHz tone should sound like baking frying. An oscilloscope won’t tell you this.

Interesting part about VHS is that you had multiple azimuths on the same drum that read different parts of the tape. For that reason VHS tape had stricter quality control and surprisingly superior sound to all formats @ 1800 rpm. It’s too bad that format was never realized for audio but that is another rabbit hole topic all together.

benklesc"Tape played the first time will not have the same azimuth as the tape played the 200th time."

This is clearly, absolutely, demonstrably false and so is a lot of the other stuff you wrote you do not know what you are talking about and by the way VHS tape wears like crazy there is a lot of friction in there!

Great to hear from you Andrew. I agree. Cassettes unfortunately have serious quality control and this is related to azimuth as well. I love rtr decks because of how easy they are to calibrate. Even the best tape decks (the Nak ZX-9, CR-7, the Tandberg 3014, the Revox B215), all aligned and calibrated as per factory spec, will be only average or mediocre when playing back a set of pre-recorded cassettes obtained from different publishers. Each of these decks will accidentally have their playback azimuth alignment very closely aligned with some of your cassettes, but will have poor alignment with other cassettes, and there will be nothing you can do about it. The manufacturers of pre-recorded cassettes, especially in India, on the whole, did not follow close tolerances when manufacturing their cassettes. They even followed mass manufacture processes which make such close tolerances impossible to obtain consistently. Therefore, even the world’s best decks are going to be only average when retrieving the last bit of HF information from a bunch of pre-recorded cassettes. The only exception is a correctly working Dragon with a correctly aligned NAAC sub-system.

I have been restoring reel to reel and cassette tape machines since 1980 when plenty where new. I run a service / restoration shop in Brooklyn NY for tape machines. I’ve never been busier with high end, home & pro recording studio folks.
Right now there is a trend of selling broken reel machines for outta-sight prices, then needing repairs after fact.

Heads do wear, but reconditioning / lapping gives many years of life.

Just a little Reel vs Cassette comparison:
There are 3 companies that manufacture new reel to reel tape. On the cassettes front I’m pretty sure no one is making CrO2 tape anymore. and that is the only tape that has the low noise floor and HF response the sounds good with music.

Going back to the beginning of this thread. cassettes no matter how well the calibration on the machine is will never surpass the quality of Reel to reel for so many reasons.
If you would like to discuss further feel free to contact me .

....after looking at this thread, a lot of this was discussed 
-Andrew
Funktionaltech.com

@Cleeds

What’s your point? First you say one thing, then another. Either way, there’s no question that tape heads are subject to wear. It’s not a "myth."

That’s actually impossible. Cassette and reel are two different formats, two different tape widths.

So, many of the consumer reel to reel decks sold on the market like cassette decks were manufactured with heads that never wear down. For that reason ferrite heads for example cannot be relapped. They never develop a flat spot. Since the ferrite is encased in glass unlike metal heads, they can be polished but not reshaped. Also to clarify, head wear and head failure are not the same. Ferrite can go bad.

There are several ways tape can lose HF and wear is only one of them. Exposure to a magnetized tape path is another - that’s the function of a demagnetizer. But I’d sure like to know why you think tape wear changes azimuth.

Mostly from wear on the spools. Tape played the first time will not have the same azimuth as the tape played the 200th time.

A VHS tape deck wraps the tape around a rotary spinning tape head, which gives it a high "write speed" relative to the speed of tape travel. There is definitely contact between tape and head and wear is the result.

VHS rewinders solved a problem that did not exist. Because of the nature of moving heads, VHS tape floats close to the heads but do not need to make direct contact unlike linear tracks. Early VCRs would load and wrap the videotape virtually completely around the video head (leftover technology from the U-MATIC format) leading to premature wear. Under normal circumstances VHS tape will never "wear out" or "fade". That is a common myth spread around from the ads to "save your tapes".

My first and only deck was a Pioneer RT-1011L, which I would probably still have except for one thing: head wear. The heads had obvious visible wear at a time when I was too broke to replace them. So I wound up practically giving it away. One of the dumbest and most regrettable moves of my entire audio career. So yes indeed tape heads do not defy the laws of physics. Reel to reel tape heads definitely do wear. 

We should also note that is a myth that reel to reel heads wear.

While I agree with a lot of what you posted, its a simple fact that heads wear- I've replaced many of them in my time, on cassette, consumer RTR and pro machines as well.

benklesc

... We should also note that is a myth that reel to reel heads wear. Yes the metal heads used on professional decks wear but then they are still manufacturing new heads for pro decks.

What's your point? First you say one thing, then another. Either way, there's no question that tape heads are subject to wear. It's not a "myth."

What does wear are the tapes themselves every time you play them, so more times than not any used tape you buy on the market has lost it’s higher frequencies and doesn’t sound too good. This is because as a tape sheds overtime it changes the azimuth.

There are several ways tape can lose HF and wear is only one of them. Exposure to a magnetized tape path is another - that's the function of a demagnetizer. But I'd sure like to know why you think tape wear changes azimuth.

The heads used in consumer decks are the same heads used in cassette decks like Nak. 

That's actually impossible. Cassette and reel are two different formats, two different tape widths.

Funny enough one of the advantages of VHS tape for example is that it does not come in direct contact with the heads, so VHS heads and VHS tape does not wear ...

A VHS tape deck wraps the tape around a rotary spinning tape head, which gives it a high "write speed" relative to the speed of tape travel. There is definitely contact between tape and head and wear is the result.

I made an account on here just so I could reply to this.

In 2014 I decided to buy my first reel to reel deck for the home. I went through Akai, two Panasonics, and finally landed on Teac 7030GSL to my liking. In 2017 I bought an MCI JH110 I use for 10.5" reels.

First I would just like to say this. The magic of reel to reel as a legitimate format that outpaces the CD is not really for playback but for making recordings. Obviously reel to reel is not a dead format as there are studios that still use tape to this day. I’m talking 2" multi-track master tape. Think Otari, MCI, Studer, Tascam, Ampex. Those are in a different league but I don’t think that’s what we’re talking about here. The wider tracks on large tape have way more room to saturate than cassette. The workflow of reel to reel for me is still my preference.

As far as the second category of reel to reel format, is the consumer decks that were sold for playing back prerecorded reel. Made by Japanese companies such as Sony, Akai, Teac, Panasonic. They usually are limited to 3 3/4 and 7 1/2 playback. These are inferior to CD’s. The prerecorded tapes they sold on the market are many generations separated from the source and probably played many times and worn. Unless you’re seeking out 15 IPS audiophile music releases that are brand new then in that case it’s probably going to sound incredible to your ears. However 7 1/2 can still sound very good and some decks have a frequency response that outpaces CD’s.

We should also note that is a myth that reel to reel heads wear. Yes the metal heads used on professional decks wear but then they are still manufacturing new heads for pro decks. The heads used in consumer decks are the same heads used in cassette decks like Nak. Ferrite heads last forever and don’t need to be relapped, but they crumble or crack if abused which is actually a little more common than people realize. I brought my Teac heads to John @ JRF Magnetics and he found they were cracked when he observed them. What does wear are the tapes themselves every time you play them, so more times than not any used tape you buy on the market has lost it’s higher frequencies and doesn’t sound too good. This is because as a tape sheds overtime it changes the azimuth. Cassettes last much longer since they are running at slower speeds. Funny enough one of the advantages of VHS tape for example is that it does not come in direct contact with the heads, so VHS heads and VHS tape does not wear and could have been an incredible music format if it was realized.

RTR as a format is not going anywhere, but it depends on the circumstance and it depends on what you are using it for. There are perceived qualities of analog that can’t be replicated with plugins. Analog tape including cassettes are actually the only format and I exclude vinyl that is capable of reproducing the full waveform of the higher frequencies. Something that 44.1 CD’s are incapable of doing. This is the whole reason why SACD’s were introduced. I would not recommend investing in a setup today for musical enjoyment. Do it as a serious hobby because the parts and support are non existent. For analog musical enjoyment investing in an audiophile cassette deck will get you superior results. Only reason I have them and restore them is I run an archival business for unreleased tape, as well as use them in the studio to make recordings.

Im with everyone else who considers hip hop rap reggaeton and protest songs dylan included a waste of recording space or listening time. 
No need for high quality equipment if that is what you like. You can say what you like its reality.  the stuff is butt awful on any system. Why would anyone like to hear some terrible background music and a foul mouthed idiot complaining and cursing in high fidelity on a 5k 10k 15k 20k. Its trash talk basically 

Why the insults @sleepwalker65?  Have you listened to Robert Glasper? He is an amazing talent, deeply respected in both jazz and hip-hop circles.

Your assertions about all rappers/hip-hop artists being thugs/criminals/shooters is absurd. Check out Chance the Rapper or Sir the Baptist. No one is getting brainwashed either. Believe it or not, people can and often do think for themselves. I would rather witness people grooving together to any kind of music than the alternative.

I apologize if I somehow offended you, although, you really should finish cutting my lawn before it gets dark. Lighten up a little Frances....

Moonwalker99, keep listening your rock and roll, i want to repeat that i am not a hip hop or rap aficianado, but let’s make it clear - i don’t like rock and roll (most of it), country and stuff like that, but you like it and always talk sh*t about music you don’t understand (you don’t even know a history of this music).

1: rappers that sample recordings that are the artistic property of others are not manufacturing anything that they can legally call their own artistic property.

In the beginning (late 70s) they used to sample beats (before a sample was even invented) using two copies of the same records and a mixer in real time on two turntables, in the 70’s it was DISCO records or JAZZ-FUNK record or even ROCK RECORDS if there was a drum break in the song. An MC was on the MIC at the discoteque and it was pretty much like Soul Train. That was the beggining of a new culture for youth people as the opposite to the rock and rock or anything else considered their parents music. Young folks created something new for themselfs to have fun, they don’t care about copyrights (it is true), it was in the black ghetto and they were poor. Graffiti appeared at the same time, break dance appeared at the same time. This is hip hop at it was born pretty much parallel to the disco music.  This music changed a lot in time and you probably referring to Gangsta Rap and other aggressive form of this culture, i am refering to the positive side of this culture only, stuff like this.  

Today all samples cleared for superstars, but people are still sampling unknown records, rare records. Sampling records is a part of hip hop culture, crate digging etc.

2: Rock and Roll is not the same thing as country or folk music. Your suggestion that it is, is as absurd as saying that rap/hiphop is the same thing as disco.

Oh, thank for letting me know. Rock and Roll or Country is something i will never even listen to. Rap is not Disco, but seems like you have no idea what is a Disco Rap ? I’m sure you know this.

3: Jazz artists that involve themselves with rappers are only reducing themselves to the same level as rappers. They are no more artists than the rest of the filthy degenerates that produce rap/hiphop.

Thanks, this is all we need to know about you and your personality.
Remember It was you who bring the Rap to this forum, not me.

As i told you many times i’m into 70’s jazz, funk, soul ... music.

4: rap/hiphop doesn’t require sound quality. It is a colossal waste of hundreds of thousands of SL-1200mk2 turntables every year, and doesn’t even remotely require the capability of a child’s toy record player let alone a reel to reel tape deck.

If you don’t know yet the rappers also performing live and recording in the best studios with full live bands. There are many different forms of hip hop music including intelligent forms or it, not just commercial rubbish. In many cases this is a new form of Jazz and Funk with syncopated rhythms and rhyme. Again it is all depends on the artist and his/her musical background. In general mainstream music degrade so fast, this is one of the reason i prefer an old records from the 70’s (that was the best time for music).

Ghasley you really should keep to yourself your opinions about who I am and what kind of values I hold. Your perspective is your own, and utterly and completely worthless and laughable in my eyes.

Just because rap/hiphop is popular doesn’t mean it’s good, but you are insisting that it be respected, which I find hilarious.

Remember, rappers are heavily involved in promoting and participating in hatred and intolerance. rappers are egotistical narcissists that brainwash kids into thinking they have to posture and prove they are tougher than the rest of their crowd. rappers are also well known for promoting an atmosphere of violence that results in scores of shootings at night clubs that play rap/hiphop.

Finally, you should apologize for your outlandish and arrogant proclamations. They paint a picture of cognitive deficiencies, ignorance or both.

@chakster

@sleepwalker65

Your assertions are unfair and inaccurate. I am a rather waspy (without the p) late 50’s music and audio lover. Hip hop is every bit as relevant to those who enjoy the genre as anything you like. For you to take a swipe at the artists in your point three above is simply ill informed at best and pitiful at worst. There are so many young people discovering great music as they go on a search for the original sample. You sound like an older than average, inflexible elitist.

Keep in mind, Bob Dylan was a protest music artist until he went mainstream and plugged in. You were probably there booing. Hip-hop happened and evolved into what it is today, and it is intensely profitable for the music business and the artists. Are you of the camp that believes an artist must starve and only conform to what you think is right and honorable.

Alot of exceptional artists straddle the lines like Robert Glasper. You should apologize for your little tantrum because its guys like you who wonder why young people aren’t audiophiles. Your post above is exhibit A.

Chalker, the things you won’t understand about music could fill the whole universe.

1: rappers that sample recordings that are the artistic property of others are not manufacturing anything that they can legally call their own artistic property. 

2: Rock and Roll is not the same thing as country or folk music. Your suggestion that it is, is as absurd as saying that rap/hiphop is the same thing as disco. 

3: Jazz artists that involve themselves with rappers are only reducing themselves to the same level as rappers. They are no more artists than the rest of the filthy degenerates that produce rap/hiphop. 

4: rap/hiphop doesn’t require sound quality. It is a colossal waste of hundreds of thousands of SL-1200mk2 turntables every year, and doesn’t even remotely require the capability of a child’s toy record player let alone a reel to reel tape deck. 

@mads1i am looking for a deck that has the following:
-auto reverse
-a dedicated tapehead out
-adjustable playback eq 
-3 3/4 and 7 1/2 playback

can you suggest something? Thanks!

I've noticed the collector market is booming for restored Reel 2 Reels. I will find and restore one for resale, to finance a new turntable. 

oh, come on, let's keep it reel ... 

Like so many here I completely disagree.  My Pioneer RT-1050 running in half track and 15ips absolutely kills my Nakamichi deck. 
My B-77 also half track does likewise.  

I had the foresight to purchase spare head stacks for the Pioneer.  I have two new head stacks for half and quarter track and after over forty years of use I’m still on the original stack. Yes, it they still meet spec.

There are several companies that can re-lap your worn tape heads for many more years of service.  ReVox heads are especially well suited to re-lapping as there is so much material to work with.

I have also been enjoying second generation masters from Horch-House and the Tape Project, not to mention all of the standard quarter track 7.5 ips production tapes that are available on the used market.  

Judging from the Munich 2019, reel to reel is doing just fine.

@sleepwalker65 my 3 kids, ages 18, 20 and 23 despise rap as much as I do. They like many formats, but genuinely love Rock.

I would rather listen to good music on crappy system than some crap on high-end system. I don’t care about Rock. This is not my cup of tea.

@brettmcee And only old square white people call it ‘rap.’

haha, exactly
We call it hip hop

The genre was born because they start playing breaks from an old jazz-funk records and rhyming over it in the late 70’s and it was oldschool, then they start sampling an old records to make their own beats (included a rock records too).

There are some nice instrumental hip hop and many top jazz musicians performed and recorded with hip hop artists in the 90’s when the scene was completely different compared to modern hip hop. This is Donald Byrd (from Blue Note) on trumpet with Guru on Jazzmatazz LP and i still like this stuff.

I wasn’t into Rap or Rhyme too much, but i like the original jazz-funk records that early hip hop producers used to make their beats. Those original 70’s LPs are perfectly recorded and sounds amazing on High-End system. Here is the most famous example: Bob James "Nautilus" (on CTI Records).

But i think our sleepwalker65 is not into jazz, it’s s typical rocker’s attitude, no wonder. So keep on playin’ your country stuff, lol. Just don't tell us what is crap or not when it comes to music.

@sleepwalker65i love the Beatles!!! That’s why I bought a reel to reel player!!!

...on rap, try the Ghost Dog soundtrack and Oddisee. Oddisee needs a good system! 

@brettmcee rap is pretty disgusting stuff. You don’t need anything more than a crappy $50 Walmart stereo to listen to that. 

Here is a link to some tape deck photos taken by Todd Kreiger over at Audio Asylum at the 2019 THE S.H.O.W. recently in CA. (click each to supersize)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/xXt5fRXqaD8CbfZx7

Here is link to all of his photos:
https://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=general&m=747659

I recommend The Ghost Dog soundtrack, and Public Enemy’s Fear of a Black Planet as good starting points.

Maybe De La Souls Six Feat High and Rising. 

A contemporary Hiphop/Rap artist I think will be a good test for all your systems is anything by Oddisee.

Chalkster, my 3 kids, ages 18, 20 and 23 despise rap as much as I do. They like many formats, but genuinely love Rock. 

Uberwaltz, from a technical point of view, early CD's were not as good as today's CD's. But just as the case of a technically inferior record, you would wind up with the same result; this usually consists of the whole batch, not just one record.

If it sounds bad it's bad, if it sounds good, it's good; whatever your determination in regard to this fact is good enough for me.

Here is a CD I have determined is good from a musical point of view (which is arbitrary) but I also stand behind this CD as very good from a technical point of view; Pat Metheney & Anna Maria Jopek "Upojenie";


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NXc9Gzg8hY

   

@sleepwalker65

Chakster you probably can’t find your rap on R2R, but sound quality was never a requirement for rap anyhow.

Oh, it’s you again with your favorite topic.

Sound Quality is a requirement for any genre of music even for a "grandpa country records" you may listening to.

The worst ever "music" often comes from people with the best systems, especially from digital officionados (imo). When i watch those reports from Audio Shows (USA or EU) on youtube i’m getting sick of the selection of music, it’s awful and they have no taste at all (as much as their designers who’s working on all those ugly looking modern "high-end" equipment).

90% of my record collection is properly recorded original pressings of rare 70’s Jazz-Funk, Soul, Soundtracks, Latin Jazz ...some of those obscure old records cost more than your audio components. And none of them available on Reel2Reel tapes, except for the impossible to find studio mastertapes.

The choice of music or R2R tapes is very limited, let’s face it.
The choice of music on vintage vinyl is much wider, fact.

If i could buy what i like on R2R tapes for the price of original vinyl i would love to use tapes, but i think with so small choice of music it’s pointless. I don’t listen to everything just for the sake of quality and my heart belongs to the music from the 70’s (mainly played by black musicians).

P.S. You’d better discuss rap and hip-hop with your kids, each generation has their own music, when older generation blame new generation’s music it sounds like blabling of old f**ts and this is what you’re doing.

Orpheus.

While I do not question your logic that still did not answer my question of what or who defines a "good CD"

Are we defining from a personal viewpoint or a provenance of recording viewpoint?

Which is where I was going with opinion.

Your opinion and my opinion could be polar opposite on that count and yet both could be equally correct dependent on the criteria of said " good CD".

Some people take that word "opinion" off into the wild blue yonder; however, since most of us agree that R2R is the ultimate reference in regard to recorded music, we can proceed from that point.


Digital or analog is not an audible difference or qualification, since all music is analog, which is why digital must be converted into analog in order to be music, otherwise it would be pure noise.

It's the quality of the components in this conversion that determine the quality of the music. While the audible difference between SS and Tubes has some merits; lately, that "digital", "analog" has gotten very foggy. An example is recording a CD to reel; that playback is 100% analog, that's not opinion, but scientific fact, and the proof lies in the manner in which that process is carried out to it's conclusion.

Although I rest my case on science, the bottom line audio speaks for it self, in which case all one needs is a good pair of discerning ears.

SS versus tubes; here is a case of some like vanilla while others like strawberry. While I can accept a tube pre, and a SS amp; I wont go beyond that; never a SS pre-amp. Many times companies will manufacture a SS amp, but with a tube pre.

In the case of tube phonos, it is the tube itself that determines the end result, as much as the quality of the unit; which is why "Uncle Kevin" is always promoting tubes.


    https://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/telefunken-e88cc-6922


These tubes will make a big difference in a tube phono, and that's not my opinion but an auditory fact; as a matter of fact, I will live without my TT until these are back in the phono.

All is not opinion, there are some clear audible facts.

orpheus
If a good CD is recorded to reel, the playback is pure "analog". What you have, is a noise free LP.

>>>>>Unfortunately for that theory the noise and distortion occurs as soon as the laser reads the CD. And the missing information and noise cannot be corrected by any means. The best laid plans of mice and men oft go awry.

I guess it depends on your definition of a "good CD"?
What is the recording DNA of said CD to qualify?

Everyone is going to have a differing opinion and that is just about where this thread stands right now. Difference of opinions only.

If a good CD is recorded to reel, the playback is pure "analog". What you have, is a noise free LP.

Chakster you probably can’t find your rap on R2R, but sound quality was never a requirement for rap anyhow.