Building the Audio Note Kit 1 SET amp...
Charles, yes, what the Kit 1 does in terms of purity of tone and the ability to re-create ambient space (where it exists on the recording) and unravel complex musical material is quite something. I feel like I owe you some thanks for inspiring me to move in this direction. The level of emotional engagement with the music and the ability to re-create such beauty is really delightful. Jetrexpro, I'm not a huge classical music aficionado but I do have some classical records that I like and also some film soundtracks but I really enjoy. Back in the 1980s, I purchased a number of Chesky LPs that I'm going to have to go back and explore  they should sound really terrific. If you haven't heard it, I am a big fan of a somewhat obscure animated film soundtrack. It's an anime film called Princess Mononoke. It's on the "Milan" label. Extraordinarily well recorded and some beautiful music, too. Map, Sebrof may be lending me his Tekton Katz Meow speakers to try out at home. It will give me a chance to see what a much higher efficiency design sounds like. I am very interested in the prospect of getting a much higher efficiency speaker in the mix and seeing what that does for the synergy of the system. On the other hand, the De Capo is sounding VERY good right now. Decisions, decisions |
Very glad to hear the good news, Rebbi. Speaking of Chesky, and also of classical music, I recommend that you consider purchasing a used or new copy of Chesky CD31, Dvorak's "New World Symphony," Jascha Horenstein conducting the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra. A magnificent performance of great and immediately likeable music, which is also one of the best sounding orchestral recordings I have ever heard. And one which I suspect would be particularly revealing of whatever the differences may be between the sonics of your De Capos and the Katz Meow or any other speakers you may compare them to. You won't believe, btw, that this CD was created from a recording made in 1962! Although it is out of print, the CD can be obtained from a number of sellers offering it at Amazon. Best regards, -- Al |
Rebbi, I don't listen to large scale symphonic music very often, but when I do it's enjoyable and engaging in my system. I can relate to yours and Jet's comments. Before I got my SET amp one of the warnings was they can't unravel complex music. Implied is they're only good for low demanding simple music. That may be true for lesser SETs or if there's a poor speaker match. The first time I played a classical orchestra CD(RCA Living Presence CSO late 1950s) I was nearly stunned by how good it was,layers od depth, fine separation,clarity. Nothing fell apart or collapsed. Now I wasn't listening at peaks of 110 db(I just don't listen at that loud level). The music was at a volume I found to be very satisfying and involving, that's good enough for me. I would likely require a more powerful amp if that type of listening was my primary fare(but it isn't). I truly enjoy all genres of music when the mood strikes. For the most part it's a large collection of jazz of various size groups. The point is you have an excellent amplifier that with appropriate speakers will allow you to enjoy whatever you like at a very high quality level of reproduction. , |
Thanks Rebbi and Almarg for the Chesky recommendations. I didn't know about them. If anyone is a Dvorak fan I can also recommend the late 1950's "Stereorama" George Szell Cleveland recordings. Crystal clear. Charles, I have CSO/Renier Bartok RCA Living Presence from the mid fifties. As you mention, layers of depth and clarity. Of course all of these recordings were done with tube gear and its no wonder they sound so good. Its nice to be listening to a SET amp putting out 8-10watts and able to shake the walls with an orchestra crescendo and one second later be totally drawn into the spooky layers and room filling depth of a quite moment where the strings are shimmering and woodwinds are playing a quite melody. Or have Sarah Vaughan singing right before my eyes in my living room or Peter Gabriel or St Vincent or Pink Floyd rocking out and the the groove is so convincing that my whole body is moving in my listening seat. With Rock recordings a SET amp does some special things. Since there is so much ambient (reverb) used on many of these recordings a SET amp presents the ambient info as various layers that float into the listening room with richness depth and clarity but also as a musical whole. And they are easy to build- Magic! |
04-09-15: RebbiYou are welcome to try them. They were my main speakers at one point (before I made the ones I have now and when I was in a small room) and with my 2A3 SET amp they were the speakers above all others that gave me that SET/Holographic sound. I am interested to read your impressions of them if you do try them. |
Final Kit 1 blog post here. Listening impressions and build pictures included. Enjoy! |
Reb, I'm glad it all worked out as it should. There may be some lessons learned here for AN Kits in particular. You mentioned during the build as I recall that the build documentation was new or still in some unfinished state. has that been resolved? If one is to have a chance at building a kit anywhere near as well as an expert like DP, the build documentation should be 100% accurate. If DP is the expert, I wonder if he helps develop the build guides? Or at least provides editorial feedback. Its not clear to me that one would have a chance of doing it as well as him currently with the documentation that you were provided initially. My impression is taht it was somewhat not up to date and would not specify some of the things that Pete did. The devil is always in the details with complex projects like this, especially with finicky audiophiles. A complete and up to date and fully accurate build guide would help keep AN kits customer support costs down I would think so it would be a top priority if it were me. |
Map, I was working with a combination of the manual for the previous version of the Kit 1, along with an in-process version of the new manual. The new manual is either nearly or entirely complete. Brian is redoing all the manuals and working with a graphic designer to make them clean, clear and consistent in style across kits. Brian has incorporated feedback from customers in these new manuals. The new Kit 1 manual, for example, incorporates a number of suggestions that I (and perhaps others) have made. So I think that Kit 1 builders from here on out will have very good documentation to deal with. I would consider the things that Pete does to be "icing on the cake" touches. In other words, you can get a perfectly functioning Kit 1 and not have the innards be as orderly and beautiful as Pete's, but it's certainly something to aspire to. |
Reb, I have in the back of my head that sometime soon I will sell off 1 pair of my speakers and maybe a second string pair of amps and some other extra stuff to help finance the high eff. tube amp setup that I have been wanting to try for quite some time. It would become the 2-channel a/v system in my family room I'm thinking. The problem is mainly that things sound so good their already that its hard to justify added cost of another change but sometimes its nice to try things just for the sake of trying something different. This thread and related info has helped solidify Ankit/Tekton as a frontrunner for me as well when the time comes. It would mainly just require three analog inputs one of which would be a external phono pre-amp. |
I am also wondering how much heat the amp generates? I keep teh backs open on my cabinets but the front glass doors closed usually when listening so heat generated could be an issue in their. My current TAd Hibachi amps in taht system sit on the floor next to the cabinets hidden behind the speakers. My wife would love if I could downsize and fit everything nicely in the cabinets. That alone would be a good excuse for me to make a change. |
Rebbi, The AN Kit 1 300b Amplifier really seems like it's an exceptionally well built and very good sounding amplifier. You are getting excellent performance from this amplifier using the standard grade 300b tubes. Just think of the room for improvement with just simply moving to a higher grade of 300b tubes somewhere down the line, not to mention trying different power cords. As well as your amplifier currently sounds there's room for improvement with just those simple suggestions, you have a lot to look forward to even though you're at a high-level already. Your high-quality SET amplifier is just filled with lovely potential. Charles |
Map, The amp is 17 inches wide and 12.5 inches deep. The highest point on the amp is the very top of the 300B tubes, which measures about 9 inches high from the surface of the shelf the amp sits on. I would not recommend running the amp in an area without all around ventilation. The tubes and mains transformer get quite hot - the tubes get "burn your fingers hot" - once the amp is fully warmed up and playing, and I would want to make certain that this heat could be adequately dissipated. But I think Brian would be the guy to ask about what constitutes adequate ventilation. |
Yes, Charles, thanks, I believe the amp does have lots of potential. Better 300B's and an upgraded power cord are possibilities. Then there are also the Audio Note Copper Foil caps that could easily be swapped in for the Mudorf Gold/Silver/Oil caps I now have. Brian said that the Audio Note C-Core output trannies are amazing, but you really need to live with the stock trannies (which are custom designed and build for ANK and of which he is clearly very proud) for awhile in order to appreciate what the C-Cores are about. They are also jaw-droppingly expensive, but I think he buys those directly from Audio Note UK and doesn't have much wiggle room on pricing. Charles, you are so right about the qualities of a good SET amp. I was listening tonight to HD Tracks downloads of "Paul Simon Live In New York City" and was just transported by the sense of "almost attending the concert." It's wonderful. |
Rebbi, So happy that all is finally settled and your problems with the amp are over. Now it's time to enjoy! Charles, Now is as good a time as any to update you on my experience with the Black Treasure 300b tubes that I bought a few weeks ago.Yes, they are breaking in and changing a lot, and I am much happier than I was in the beginning. It is apparent that this amp can sound very different depending on the tubes which are used. What threw me off at first was the entirely different presentation of the Black Treasures. They are more forward, while at the same time having more solidly defined and powerful bass. When I say forward, I should be clear that the stock Shuguang 300b tubes were recessed somewhat in the midrange, but made up for that with a crystalline clarity. The Black Treasures are not too forward, just overall more linear from top to bottom. They sounded flat and lacking depth and dimension, and that is surely changing now. Timbres, microdynamics and the general flow have all improved, and I am not near 300 hours yet. These tubes are more "modern" in sound in that they are somewhat "drier" than the somewhat more liquid and romantic stock tubes. The payoff is that there is more body on the bottom end of saxophones, and pianos are more precisely portrayed, with faster stops and starts, and without the slight "ringing" I was hearing with the stock tubes. Overall, I am really beginning to enjoy these tubes, and like some others on this thread, I have certainly come to respect the emotional as well as the intellectual insights that SET amplification can bring to reproduced music. One more comment about the stock 300b tubes...I still like them. Even when I had nothing to compare them to, I could recognize their deficiencies, as I will with the Black Treasures when they are fully burned in; but like a friend or lover who is imperfect or quirky, there is still a personality in those tubes which offers a lot to love, and is very communicative. I am glad that you, like myself Rebbi, had such a positive experience with Pete. He indeed does beautiful work, and I could not have done the same for myself, so the modest extra charge was money well spent. Again, I can't make any comparative comments about the C- core transformers, but my amp sounds great. How much of that is down to the transformers I don't know. Time for you to have fun now, Thanks for the narrative, All the Best, John |
Hello John, I felt comfortable recommending the Black Treasure (BT) given my success with them a few years ago. For their current cost they are an exceptionally good value. I'm pleased to learn they're coming around for you(they'll continue to improve progressively). Each 300b tube has its own sound character as you're discovering. Your amp seems similar to mine in that the "modern" type 300b tubes sound better(IMO) than the "romantic" softer traditional type 300b. I find the modern 300b is more natural, linear and realistic without the romantic coloration effect. The really good SET amplifiers don't need the gratuitous warmth/coloration because these amps innately provide a pure and natural sound to begin with. they will pass along the full true tone, timbres and harmonics without artificial assistance. Well anyway that's been my personal experience with my particular amplifier. Charles, |
Thank you Rebbi for sharing your experience with us. In all the threads over the years on this forum this one and the SET thread have really opened my eyes concerning my prejudices of SET amplifiers. What both threads have singularly done is recognize the fact that there is a wide variation in these designs and when matched with the proper speaker these amplifiers are capable of realizing a musical experience of the highest order, which to me is a real emotional connection to the music. The AN seems like a superb value an a great place to start given the support you've received from them and the seeming quality of the Kit. I'm still not totally convinced that the AN or any 8 watt DHT amplifier is going to be an ideal match with the Decapo speakers but this isn't the point really is it? It is the journey of discovery and new realizations. Most importantly that one doesn't have to spend tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars to put together a music system of the highest order. I recently had an SET experience of my own that put to place many of my earlier prejudices which is to say when done right, carefully chosen, SETs can offer an experience that is really magical. I would also say SET amplifiers CAN do bass and CAN reproduce orchestral music at a very satisfying level. Thanks again! |
And thanks to you too Charles, a most thoughtful proponent of SET amplifiers. One thing for sure as in all thing audio, the critical importance of matching and judicious selection of components. Too often it is the lack of this resulting in an unsatisfactory outcome as has ofen been my impression when listening to some SET systems. |
Reb thanks. That would be a tight fit. 😖. For the purpose of truly downsizing I am close to pulling the trigger for a glow amp 1 which is much smaller and lighter. I mentioned early on I have heard the glow at shows and liked it very much. Plus for 840 it's all direct wired and they throw in a free external dac to boot currently in a promo. The an is a piece that calls for being prominently displayed. It would be a shame to have to hide it in a cabinet. |
Map, Yes, I agree that the Kit 1 needs to sit on a top shelf. I can't imagine that closing it up in any kind of a cabinet where it didn't have free air circulation would be a very good idea  I think the heat buildup could be dangerous to the amp (and the cabinet, as well). What speakers are you thinking of pairing with the Glow Audio amplifier? Your Triangles or something else? |
John, Thank you for your post. I am very interested in this whole issue of different 300 B tubes, the effect they have on the sound and particularly the break-in time needed for the tube to show its true character in a given amp. Is there a general consensus for how long it takes for one of these tubes to fully break in? I'm also not surprised that there are things you like about the "cheap" stock Chinese tubes that come with the Kit 1. I am quite happy with how mine sound, but of course, I don't have anything to compare them to. |
But the thing is I am sitting here as I type listening to the setup I would change thinking I don't want tonloosevthis sound. I hear all the things that gets attributed commonly to a great sounding system. Why spend more money? My wife would like less clutter but is not complaining. Maybe just because it's fun to try new things that work differently. We'll see. In the meantime I ain't suffering by any stretch. 😉 |
Rebbi, the Black Treasure 300b tubes have an unusually long recommended break in of 300 hours. In my experience most 300bs are well broken-in by roughly 100 hours. Many sound very good straight out of the box and just improve from there.No rush for you as you're getting wonderful sound already. In your case upgrading to the AN copper foil capacitors is likely cheaper than a lot of 300b brands. You have several really fine options/paths available. |
I agree with Charles. The stock tubes seemed to stabilize within a much shorter period of time. I'm not sure that it was even 100 hours, whereas these are still changing. I don't know what Audio Note charges for the copper foil caps, but I'm sure that it isn't cheap, and likely for the same price or less he could get the Jupiters Charles, and they fit perfectly. By the way Reb, I am glad to see you managed to get the upgraded copper plate. Small touch, but it's nice. |
Hi John, Yes, I also believe the Jupiter copper foils are an excellent capacitor alternative to consider. Rebbi mentioned the AN caps as these are the ones offered as an AN Kit upgrade if he wants to stay within the AN family. No doubt the Jupiter copper foil coupling caps are less expensive than the premium level 300b tubes. The possibilities with an amplifier such as this is considerable. When you factor in the potential future upgrades(if ever deemed necessary)transformers,caps,tubes, power cords etc. This amp can yield true world class sound for very reasonable cost. With this amplifier Rebbi has established a very strong foundation to build upon. If he stays put he still has a terrific SET amplifier. I can relate to his listening notes and appreciate what he's hearing with this amp in his system. Charles. |
Hi Reb, I am attaching the link to the specific page. Scroll down to the ones that have a value of 0.22 uf. http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_jupiter_copper600.html. They are $60.00 a piece, and as you know you'd need four, but the price is very reasonable compared to the Duelund and other competitors. Look at the comments about them on this site. And as I said, they are a great fit. |
John, Link broken for me. Try this. Reviews of those Jupiter caps are stellar. Not in the family budget right now but an interesting upgrade possibility. Thanks! |
60 x 4 =240.00 USD, much less than the top tier 300b tubes. But as with the tubes you don't know which capacitor is better for you until you hear them. Jupiter copper foils are considered to be amongst the very top level capacitors per reviews and owner feedback. I put then in my Frankensteins(1 coupling cap per mono block) and they are a nice upgrade(not night and day however) from what was excellent sound with the stock solens caps. |
Charles, Interesting that you put the Jupiter's in your Frankensteins - I don't know that I'd have the nerve to mess with such a top-tier, commercial product. But interesting to hear that they made a difference. I think my first upgrade to the Kit 1 will probably be a "real" power cord, as I'm still using this leftover computer power cord. I'm a believer in speaker cables sounding different because I've experienced that myself in my own system. Power cords? I'm a little skeptical but open to convincing. Audio Advisor has these Pangea cords made with Cardas copper and they're under $100, so it seems like a pretty low-risk experiment. By the way, I was listening to Paul Simon's "Rhythm of the Saints" LP last night with my mouth hanging open. I love this amp! It just makes music! :-) |
