It's nice to hear from you Jean !
I have a 10" Lathe in my basement and I would like to make a new spindle for my Lenco. Does anyone have any info on materials or design of Jean's spindle ?
I have a Birch base Lenco with a JMW 10.5i and Dynacetor XX-2 cartridge.This is my first turntable and it sounds very good ! I am still dialing in the cartridge but even with a very small cartridge adjustment with azimith or vta it makes a big difference in the sound.
This is my favorite website.
Thanks to all !!
Abill |
Hi Jean
Good to hear from you again and that your Lenco story carries on even when you're not here.
regards
malcolm |
Latest from Arthur Salvatore on his auditioning of a Jean Nantais Lenco is that his prior audition was with a Lenco that wasn't quite up to snuff. It had a problem with the idler spring.
Jean Nantais fixed that and the result:
"This is what I can state at this time: With the turntable and tonearm now optimized (though maybe the tonearm is still not "perfect"), this combination is definitely the finest I've ever heard in my system (or anywhere else)."
Further, he says that the performance of the Jean Nantais Lenco is "unprecedented".
This means a carefully tweaked Lenco just might be the best turntable in the world!
Full update is at Salvatore's HighEndAudio site, or on Lenco Heaven. |
That article was such a tease! I can't wait to read the final results. If the new, full out Nantais can beat the Forsell and make Arthur say its the best he's ever heard, that's quite something as he's a hypercritical and fussy reviewer. |
I don't need Arthur to tell me how good one of Jean's Lencos really is. Having owned and used many great turntables in the last 40 years, including Linn, Oracles, SOTAs, Maplenoll Ariadne Signature, and (lastly) a VPI TNT, I can definitely state that my Nantais Lenco is the best that I have owned. Incredible dynamics, huge soundstage, jet black background etc., etc., this tt is simply superb. And I don't even have one of the super heavy tables that Jean sold to Arthur. Now, if Jean could just come up with a permanent fix to that resonating spring to which Arthur refers (a fix I understand Jean has developed) Lenco supremacy will be assured. |
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Cleopatra 52: "Now, if Jean could just come up with a permanent fix to that resonating spring to which Arthur refers (a fix I understand Jean has developed) Lenco supremacy will be assured."
A ways back I thought up an idea for an electromagnetic tensioner for the Lenco idler arm, whereby a solenoid would provide a magnetic force via a moving armature, which would be solidly linked to the Lenco idler arm...no spring. If the magnetic force were properly governed and the solenoid could be made to operate silently, without introducing vibration into the idler system (most solenoids make noise as the armature moves back and forth), it could be just what's needed, but at a cost: a much greater level of complexity. The Lenco spring whose only function is to get the idler into engagement with the motor and platter; and the self-engaging design of its idler (and of any properly-designed idler) that generates most of its grip from the rotation of the motor shaft, is SO elegant in its simplicity. |
Arthur Salvatore has updated his comments about the Jean Nantais Lenco at his site:
http://www.high-endaudio.com/
It is in the Recent File (and the Reference Turntable File).
NOBODY here is so lazy as to read just this one line and not go to read the rest, so I don't feel amiss in quoting Arthur:
"This is the finest turntable I have ever heard." |
"Finally, I have gone back to the drawing board, and have rethought and redesigned not only the main bearing, but also the plinth, also to work with the new main bearing, the totality of which not only extracts far more information and energy from the grooves, but more importantly, while preserving and enhancing the Lenco’s magical way with timing and coherence, and simple majesty, all the while sounding much more “natural” and unforced. More news anon."
From my last post, now I guess this is the news here presented, the Lenco I built Arthur Salvatore now - I didn't dare to dream - officially on the Reference Components page in Upper Class A, though there are further details coming, and like some of you out there I am on tenterhooks for the continuing story! Once the full review is out, I'll give my further impressions of how the review came about, and of my visit to Salvatore's sound room, with the phono section of his Jadis preamp wired directly to his amplifiers, the volume control and switches out of the signal path, a demonstration of the extreme audiophile path of preservation of the purity of the signal, which - in spite of 8-watt SETs - resulted in THE most transparent, dynamic, focused and detailed (while preserving musicality) system I have ever had the pleasure of hearing.
Re. the results from Athens, apparently, as I have been writing for more than six years now, it must be pointed out that there is one main reason the Lenco is as good as it is: THE DRIVE SYSTEM. Those who don't want to believe this, go get ye a belt-drive Lenco L85 and see how far modification, replinthing and tweaking will get you. As I wrote back on February 1st, 2004, when the Audio Landscape was completely different and the "Idler Wheel Revolution" was just a dream in my head (still in development ;-)), for those who don't remember their history:
"Do I want to get into the whole idler-wheel drive philosophy and science and so upset hordes of belt-drive maniacs? No! Unless you want an explanation. But consider the history. I personally own many 'tables, some high-end, like the air-bearing Maplenoll which a friend recently dumped his VPI MkIII with Clearaudio parallel-tracking arm for (also considered very highly by Salvatore), some "mid-fi" (but I love them), and some I built myself. The Lencos beat them all. Sugano who builds the Koetsu uses a Garrard 301 idler-wheel drive. The Japanese have been using low-powered tube amps and sensitive speakers for decades while we scoffed, and now we're finding out that there was something to this after all. The Japanese have also been buying up all the heavier Garrard idler-wheel drives they could get their hands on. There are idler-wheel fans all over Europe and North America with high-end systems. Through all this, one highly-regarded 'table which sold in large numbers has been ignored in all the Garrard-fever (and I have owned a number of these Garrards in Europe), and that's the heavy-duty bomb-proof yet elegant Lenco idler-wheel drive. Because of this, it can be had cheap. Forget about rumble figures propaganda, that's what this thread is meant to address. The issue was the wheels themselves, and if you can find a Lenco with the rubber-coated aluminum wheel, then it will be perfect, as I have never yet found one which was flattened. There was a business in England which still sold Lenco wheels only a while ago for roughly $20, I will search this out. The moment someone finds one and buys it, I will proceed with a step-by-step demonstration - with photos - of how to build a high-end 'table. Chipboard and plywood are enough, but feel free to source Corian, acrylic, marble, anything you can get your hands on, as the prime issue is mass. It's easy, even someone who has never used tools can do it. Fun, and you'll end up with a 'table you'll be hard-pressed to match, let alone beat. Those who want to dismiss or object to the idler-wheel technology, please address your objections to Sugano."
I always thought the following was one of the better things I wrote, so here it goes again :-): "Those who want to dismiss or object to the idler-wheel technology, please address your objections to Sugano." Audiophiles all over the world considered Sugano something of an audio god, and yet all turned a blind eye to this apparent aberration of his, preferring to look away than to investigate, which is why I loved tweaking their noses on this subject.
So, that attended to, I must underline the IMPORTANCE of the Athens results and the respect the result demands from Lenco-ites as well as the rest of the world!!: the EMT 927 is an IDLER-WHEEL DRIVE, the REASON the Lenco is so good you would all do well to remember, and NOT coincidentally the KING of all vintage 'tables and, in terms of build quality anyway, the KING of all idlers. It makes the Lenco look like a cheap piece of crap in terms of build quality (though build quality is NOT design, where the Lenco scores BIG). Even the famed fully-blown Shindo Garrard (let alone various lesser rebuilds) must quail (and not in the bird sense ;-)) at the prospect of a Shootout versus this near 150-pound (without plinth) Swiss-made professional studio machine and LEGEND. Which is the reason certain participants of this thread, and others, have tried to bury Lenco vs EMT successes (there have been others). So, that explained, we have GREAT reason for celebration, as the Lenco - in close to stock form (plinth excepted of course) - has received TWO sets of graduation papers: judgment vs the KING of all idlers (and unless you've heard an EMT idler, which is a borderline frightening experience, you are not fit to judge, dismiss or reduce this achievement); and judgment, by an audiophile of extreme experience and analytical "mercilessness" and a reviewer/guru of, until now, the Belt-Drive persuasion.
I'll here quote from one of Salvatore's earlier postings, to provide context from this exclusive, until now, user and reviewer of high-end belt-drives: "I have to admit that I still have a degree of scepticism about idler-drives. This unease is based on the history of turntable development and marketing. This is my problem: I don't understand why none of the contemporary turntable manufacturers are using this method, if it's truly superior to what they are now using. If there's a rational reason for this reluctance, I can't think of it."
This, evidently, was the problem many had from the beginning of my crusade to have the Idler taken seriously - via the cheaper and yet superb Lenco - by the general audiophile population, and removed from the fringe element existence, much as some would have preferred it - and the Lenco - remain a secret ;-).
I'll post a photo of said "Reference Lenco" under my "system" for those who wish to see it, you'll recognize the design, though under the hood, where it counts, I have made important changes. More details anon.
So, one more time for Old Time's sake (I HAVE been fighting this battle for more than 6 years now, good to finally see vindication - from Salvatore AND from Athens - of my claims for the Lenco, so please indulge me): Vive la Lenco, Vive la Idler Wheel!!! |
Dear Jean, Is your bearing upgrade available to the rest of us? If so, can you supply details? Also, do you still use and recommend the stock idler wheel in your ultimate efforts? Thanks. |
Hey everybody!
Been so busy that I never built another Lenco after the last one I posted more than 2 years ago.
Congrats Jean! The "hype and spittle" becomes OFFICIAL INTERNET REALITY! AT LAST! LOL! HOOORAYYYYYYY!
I for one am also waiting with baited breath to hear the technical details of Arthur's "Lenocius Canadius".
Mike |
On his HighEnd Audio website, Arthur Salvatore has added some information about his listening experience with a Jean Nantais "Reference" Lenco. He describes in detail, the areas in which the Lenco outperformed his prior reference...which is to say, how the Lenco proved itself the best turntable he has ever heard.
Go and take a look!
http://www.high-endaudio.com/RECENT.html
And there is still more to come, because for now, he concludes with "To be Continued!" |
Well the audio analysis part of the review is out and of course I am amazed and ecstatic at the outcome, truly better than I could have DREAMED possible (seeing a Lenco in Upper Class A of Recommended Components STILL hasn’t completely sunk in: I’ll have to go stare at it on a Greek island and meditate on it :-)), especially years ago when I first entertained a serious audio review of a Lenco (but had no idea what the outcome would be given politics etc.)!!
Many had warned me that Arthur Salvatore was a VERY difficult and picky reviewer (I could see this myself from perusing his website), but he stepped up to the plate, and I’m sure any Lenco fans out there - worth their salt - will join me in thanking Arthur profusely for taking the chance on the New Kid on the Block, the Lenco, instead of always the established (and by extension safe) Garrards, EMTs, Thorenses, and for taking a great amount of time and effort in order to make his analysis bullet-proof – and necessarily lengthy (like my own posts) ;-) - so that nay-sayers will only expose their lack of understanding, intelligence and integrity.
The lengthy history and explanation is necessitated as well by the fact the Lenco IS the new kid on the block, AND an idler-wheel drive to boot!! I cannot begin to explain what an act of courage – as a reviewer and audio guru (AND belt-driver) with an established reputation - it is to stick your neck out to report honestly (especially positively and to this extent) on the Lenco – and in such glowing (AND honest) terms! Stop and think on this a while. Had Arthur instead raked the Lenco over the coals, as I know from experience, the world would have heaved a sigh of relief and stood up and lionized him and said “Bravo, some reason restored to the world and those deluded individuals put in their place!!” Please, Arthur, don’t revise your findings on this account :-).
Given the world is filled, sadly, with those who feel it necessary to poison a good thing (essentially vandals who use keyboards), as I see it Salvatore had to back up his analysis with his history, and an explanation of the idler-wheel phenomenon, to anticipate any such attacks, and of course to provide a rational and believable foundation to the unprecedented (as he put it) performance he discovered and reported on. Having been a [willing, or I would never have promoted the Lenco/Idler] lightning-rod for the world’s opposition to the Lenco/Idler qualities for years now (from the honest to the ugly), I entirely understand.
As to ANY suggestion that I may have somehow “bought off” Salvatore, this is SO laughable as to make that person utterly ridiculous (tantamount to publicly pie-ing your own face, and then kicking your own ass :-)), as anyone at all who knows me knows all too well.
But to be more precise: I am more of a nomad than anything else, putting ALL real money into my trademark lengthy trips to exotic places around the world (I am into experience, not things, and only invest in audio equipment for the experience of music, which I DO passionately consider an important and miraculous experience). I am not particularly interested in money (other than expecting a fair return for my investments in materials, tools and research and hands-on work), and have none to spread around. I literally couldn’t GIVE away my car! I am one man, with a small workshop (and have no plans for expansion, I prefer to keep my life simple), and now backed up by a very talented machinist to make my visions reality. I will not and am not considering mass-production, and will remain loyal to him if he does to me. (To answer previous questions, I cannot have my new main bearing made in sufficient numbers at the moment to consider selling them apart from my Reference Lenco commissions, if this changes I’ll announce it). Salvatore paid me in full, and in timely fashion and according to my rules, even though he had no idea what he would receive (apart from what we worked out in print).
I have NO financial clout, and in no way can he benefit from positively reviewing my work (in fact quite the reverse as already explained). I don’t want anyone to feel sorry for me, so I’ll list one of my favourite – and central - philosophies: the best revenge is good living. In the spirit of this, I spend months every year in exotic places, in beautiful villas and bungalows (as the case may be) on the world’s finest beaches, interspersed with adventures in the Himalayas and jungles and deserts. This is where my money goes (and when I’m in a particularly beautiful and striking place with a cold beer in my hand and beautiful women around, I say “Take THAT, Bill Gates!!” to anyone who will listen :-)). I don’t think Salvatore could be influenced by the twenty bucks I could throw his way ;-). All my advantages over my “competition” are my brains, my dedication (or stubbornness), and my willingness to go to GREAT lengths to prove my various points (like starting the Home Despot Thread/Project, ongoing).
But, back to the apter celebratory note, re-capping the history of Lenco Dominance :-), back in 2003 I tried to start an idler-wheel revolution in a thread entitled “Idler-wheel drives”, on Audiogon :
“Time to start the revolution: does anyone out there own an idler-wheel drive record player they actually listen to? Or has anyone out there heard an idler-wheel (not a Garrard SP-25) in a decent system? I own several record players, some "high-end", like an Audiomeca or Maplenoll, some simply good, like the AR-XA or Ariston, and I also own several idler-wheel players I built myself, following the Garrard-rebuilds going on out there: high-mass bodies to sink the vibration. They go deeper in the bass, are faster, have more dynamics, both micro and macro, are better at focussing detail, and are pretty well indestructible. Sure, the wheel's got to be in good shape and sure, it needs a good body - but so does a belt-drive. I'm tired of reading about the superiority of belt-drive, especially as most of those writing this have not heard good examples of the alternatives. Hellooo...anyone out there share my conviction?”
Well, THAT one went up like a lead balloon, with a grand total of one lukewarm response. So, in January of 2004 I devised a new strategy: I would use the then cheap-and-plentiful Lenco I myself had been using since 1992, which I knew was superb, and put out a recipe for a high-end record player as bait, whose REAL intended purpose was to gather evidence of the superiority of the idler-wheel drive system. THIS time it took off like a rocket, as a vast untapped reservoir of unsuspected DIYers were just waiting for the instructions and encouragement to get started on a “true high-end” record player project , as advertised in my title (at that time only a very few were into this, be it belt-drive, DD or idler-wheel), rather than the usual amp and speaker projects!!
Being posted Front and Center on the world’s most important audio forum (at least ONE of the most important), and structured in such a way as continued posts put it back to the top of the list, and with the help of the various excited participants at the time, as the Lenco reputation continued to snowball, that original thread eventually went past 4000 posts, the longest in audio history at that time (I have no idea whether or not this is still a record), and spawned and fed various Lenco forums!!
I fought on the bigger audio forums for more than six years now (and it appears the fight still has no end in sight, SIGH, though thanks in part to Salvatore we are definitely getting somewhere) to have both the Lenco and the idlers I considered it represented taken seriously, and now, with the added help of this review, one can see the tone of discussion on forums around the world changing and becoming more serious and accepting (lines on French, English and Asian forums like “Well you KNOW Salvatore has now put it in Recommended Components….”).
So, all you Lenco (and idler) aficionados out there, you have now been vindicated, those who looked at you askance all those years will now (and ARE now) look at you with new respect!! So I, anyway, give Arthur Salvatore a BIG thank you for first taking a chance on an idler-wheel drive when his whole posted history was belt-drive with LOTS of skepticism aimed at the idler-wheel phenomenon, and taking an even bigger chance on the Lenco!! I can only hope that those who claim to be Lenco afficionados will join me in appreciating this great leap of faith and courageous action, and also extend their thanks.
And why not (though I know it irritates many, but what the hey, if I was interested in popularity instead of truth I would never have made it a mission to have the Lencos and idlers taken seriously): Vive la Lenco, Vive la Idler-Wheel!!! |
Congrats,
SWEET VICTORY!
I am inspired to build two more Lencos.
Mike |
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My effusive congratulations above were an unsuccessful attempt (so far) at goading Jean into spilling the beans regarding the new innovations he incorporated into A. Salvatore’s “Super Canuck” Lenco :)
Ulterior motives aside, I’ve had some time to get my thoughts together to say a few words about what Jean’s unflagging boosterism of the Lenco has meant to some of us in the stereo hobby. It just so happens that I have been doing a little research of late about SS phono pre’s – having noted that there is a new crop of expensive “state of the art” preamps being flogged on the various discussion groups. In doing that search, I visited a number of audio websites that I hadn’t been to for several years. It seems like folks everywhere are extolling the virtues of $10K+ turntables, $5K cartridges, $5K arms and the like! These are not even considered to be the best available – just “very good”. That’s an embarrassing amount of money to spend on a “hobby”. Who has that kind of cash these days, anyhow?
So, in steps Jean Nantais – the fellow who popularized his own sonic RE-discovery that has allowed some regular folks in these days to actually own at least one hi-fi component that might very well be the best – or a least counted among the best, i.e., the BIG BODY LENCO. He pointed it out to us and even told us how to re-build it and pretty much asked for nothing in return. And yet, what I have always seen as good natured magnanimity has, over the years, been derided by some naysayers as opinionated self-promotion.
Sometimes I wonder why guys do it – put their audio discoveries on the internet for all and sundry freely partake of – only to have envious weasels who have never contributed anything take pot shots at them. Anyhow, hats off to Jean for not simply taking his toys and going home.
You can look at my system and see that a Lenco rebuild was right down my alley and still is a “no brainer” for me. Put in a few bucks for raw materials and few hours of work and WHAMMO! - an audio component that can compete at the leading edge. The Lenco was by far the easiest of my major DIY projects - if you cant rebuild a Lenco, you shouldn’t be trusted around a toaster and a butter knife :) (Speaking of my system, hopefully I will be making some online updates soon. Admittedly, I have been in that phase where, after getting a very good CD player, I haven’t been spinning too many records in the last couple of years. Probably my analog rig has gotten a little too technical, so I plan to do some simplification.)
Finally, there are two amazing things to consider about the Lenco discovery – one that the performance of a refurbished 40 year old Lenco on a big slab of wood can be even be compared a modern state-of-the-art TT in any regard - and two, that is still possible to buy a stock Lenco for a few hundred bucks.
I am glad that I got in early.
Mike |
Many had warned me that Arthur Salvatore was a VERY difficult and picky reviewer (I could see this myself from perusing his website), but he stepped up to the plate, and I’m sure any Lenco fans out there - worth their salt - will join me in thanking Arthur profusely for taking the chance on the New Kid on the Block, the Lenco, instead of always the established (and by extension safe) Garrards, EMTs, Thorenses, and for taking a great amount of time and effort in order to make his analysis bullet-proof – and necessarily lengthy (like my own posts) ;-) - so that nay-sayers will only expose their lack of understanding, intelligence and integrity.
So am i interpreting this to mean that if you don't agree or believe the salvatore review that you must lack "understanding, intelligence and integrity?"
As to ANY suggestion that I may have somehow “bought off” Salvatore, this is SO laughable as to make that person utterly ridiculous (tantamount to publicly pie-ing your own face, and then kicking your own ass :-)), as anyone at all who knows me knows all too well.
Is someone making this "suggestion" that nantais"bought off" salvatore on the net? |
David, stop trying to stir up trouble and give Jean his credit where credit is due! I noticed that you have also gone phishing on Vinyl Asylum for dirt that does not exist. I purchased Jean's original 100lb Reference table (purpleheart top), as you know, and Jean set it up before his initial trip down to Arthur's place. My previous table was a Clearaudio Maximum Solution AMG wood which I enjoyed thoroughly ... until I heard Jean's table. Hearing is believing and I will leave it at that. It is absolutely ludicrous that Jean would pay off Arthur for a review ... read the events leading up to the review on Salvatore's website. Hats off to Jean for a well deserved review ...
Also, I do not need Salvatore’s approval before deciding on an equipmet purchase! I bought this table before the review had taken place.
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David, stop trying to stir up trouble and give Jean his credit where credit is due! I noticed that you have also gone phishing on Vinyl Asylum for dirt that does not exist. I purchased Jean's original 100lb Reference table (purpleheart top), as you know, and Jean set it up before his initial trip down to Arthur's place. My previous table was a Clearaudio Maximum Solution AMG wood which I enjoyed thoroughly ... until I heard Jean's table. Hearing is believing and I will leave it at that. It is absolutely ludicrous that Jean would pay off Arthur for a review ... read the events leading up to the review on Salvatore's website. Hats off to Jean for a well deserved review ...
HMM, Are we now going to play "shoot the messenger" rather than looking at the message? How do you know what "dirt exists or doesnt exist for that matter? |
The suggestion comes from the website "Lenco Heaven". It's in the "News Section", which is for members only.
The relevant thread bears my personal name.
The writer was "daiwok". The date June 3, reply # 186
The exact quote (referring to my Lenco review/essay): "...one does suspect some marketing ploy here"
Sadly, no one replying to this quote challenged it in any manner. One member even defended the "marketing ploy".
I realize interpretations are subjective, but I am not able to view this as anything other than an (unfounded) attack on my (and Jean's) integrity, if not a suggestion of outright corruption. Maybe I'm being overly sensitive, but I'm not able to appreciate that perspective at this time.
For the record, I have not made a reply on Lenco Heaven to this "suggestion". I felt I would dignify it when doing so.
Finally, I expected to be attacked in some manner because of this Lenco review/essay. This is almost inevitable when you take a strong position in "audio", but not from that quarter. |
All this talk about marketing ploys and Nantais paying off Salvatore is verging on the ridiculous! It makes the guys who are trying to stir up some dirt come off looking like a bunch of jealous schoolgirls! Let's get real guys and lets get back to listening to music. |
As a Moderator at the Lenco Heaven site in the above reference, I thought I might comment. The thread in question has had almost exclusive praise for Arthur in his seemingly honest and forthright attempt at a fair review of a modded 40 year old table such as the Lenco. JN does great work and has wonderful results and we have nothing but respect for his abilities and his carrying of the Lenco torch. He's also quite a nice guy.
As I know Daiwok David closely, I can guarantee what he meant was not an accusation of collusion, I hope Arthur can believe that. David is from HK and sometimes his expressions can be interpreted incorrectly, it is simply not in his nature to make such accusations, if we had suspected anything of the sort it would have been addressed immediately. Apologies for any insult Arthur may have felt.
Anyone promoting Lencos or modifying them for increased performance is a friend in our book. |
On a more positive note, I'd like to thank all those who offered me encouragement and kind words, both on this thread (Malcolm, Mike, Mike and Mike :-), Terry, Ed, Gene for his enthusiasm (a breath of fresh air), Abill, Jloveys, Hiho, etc.) and those who did so by word or e-mail, thank you all. And to Arthur as well, for his as-always well-chosen words, and I'm sorry they had to be said. And thanks very much Mgreene for your long (though short compared to mine ;-)) address!
So, time to make clear the effectiveness of the timing of the two outcomes - Athens, Arthur - coming together. Across the world, in front of 8 witnesses (only one of which owned a Lenco; counterbalanced by the owner of the EMT 927 who hosted the event), the Lenco was pitted against the EMT 927 (at the low end of the scale worth $25,000, at the high end $40,000). At that event, which I did not attend, the Lenco was judged the winner. One of the attendees was a member of the Audiophile Club of Athens, who himself greatly preferred the Lenco. At the other end of the world, in Florida, the results recently posted. I must have deep pockets indeed to buy off not only Arthur, but the owner of a $40K machine (sitting next to another one, the legendary EMT 950, surrounded by equally legendary equipment), and a member of the board of the ACA, and six other participants!!
And STILL, after all my lengthy explanation of my absolute inability to pay anybody off (a ridiculous and ugly charge AND insinuation even if I had any financial clout), one worm steps right up attempting to spoil the apple, in the clear light of day, to expose himself on several forums. It's embarrassing really, and sad.
But, I confess I LOVE it when someone steps right up to prove my very points, and so I must thank the latest example of "ugly" ("from the honest to the ugly") for underlining my points with SUCH a timely and pointed example, and for, as always is such cases, stimulating discussion to a fever pitch and once again putting the Mighty Lenco to the forefront of everyone's mind, my e-mails have gone mad, this thread is THRUMMING :-)!! To that list I should have added "stupid", hindsight is 20-20!
Anyway, getting back to music, my Athens Shootout was intended first of all to be a gift to the DIYers and Lenco followers who want to get their hands dirty, as it was a classic-plinthed Lenco, with original chassis, and so as original/"pure" as I could risk (when I found out it was an EMT 927 I had to send my new bearing and a mat as this was FAR out of the league I had originally envisaged), to make the point CLEAR as to just how truly great the Lenco is (major changes would otherwise take the credit, leaving the Lenco nowhere and no lesson taught)!! While I won't give out ALL my methods and choices in my current best (in fact I never did, figured DIYers had to figure SOME things out for themselves, being DIYers and all), still, beating an EMT 927 should be good enough for any DIYer, so don't worry, be happy!
It is only secondly and incidentally that it serves as a buttress against the usual ugly attacks (and it's sad that they ARE usual, always another one to step right up and fill in the Ugly Shoes, I'd make a fortune on rentals :-)), as a support.
So to make it unmistakable, once again, for the Gupper (and I realize some got it already, so please bear with me): in Athens, while I was not in attendance, eight witnesses attended a Shootout between an EMT 927 and a Lenco, and the vote went to the small (50 pounds), wooden, and vastly inferior to my Reference, Lenco. Many cognoscenti consider the EMT 927 the ne-plus-ultra of record players, and scoff at the idea that ANY belt-drive at ANY price is fit to be in the same room: I get e-mails from such, and they can afford ANYTHING (these men are to vinyl replay equipment what wine tasters/critics are to wine, and come across as such). In Florida, a greatly improved Lenco (100 pounds, new materials) landed in Salvatore's audio system with the result we all now know. The one finding supports the other, the other supports the one, it is entirely believable and iron-clad. Add to that all the conversions posted on this thread and others, the dedicated Lenco forums, the endorsements by such figures as Roger Hebert of Wyetech Labs.
I think it's safe now to say, FINALLY (and why I waited more than a year to post again), that the Lenco is now secure from such petty-minded attacks (and now the Lenco IS secure the pettiness and ugliness is now exposed for all to see clearly, and Thank God for that, it only took SIX YEARS), that reviewers like Arthur can now step up and treat the Lenco (and Idlers!!) with the proper amount of respect and clear and honest thought, and expect to be treated as if they were reviewing any other quality item, with no fear of unreasoning attack.
So join me all once again (and THIS time - thanks to this timely worm in the apple who gave me the segue I needed to Deliver the Lenco from Evil and free it from any further restraints - I REALLY feel it :-)): Vive la Lenco, Vive la Idler-Wheel!!!! |
Further Clarification.
I have now been in contact with the writer of the "marketing ploy" post. He claims, to my satisfaction, that this post only concerned Jean's view of alternative plinth materials and the Lenco top plate (a serious point of contention within the Lenco DIY crowd), along with Jean defending his commercial interests, and in no way inferred some sort of collusion between us.
I believe, as does Rf_gumby above, that it was simply a poor choice of words on his part, which is understandable, since the writer has a different mother tongue. To provide some context...
This post came after another Lenco Heaven member had earlier accused me (within my Lenco review/essay) of "covering my ass" and writing "between the lines". When no one on that website took issue with these (very serious for me) charges*, I became predisposed to think the worst of the "marketing ploy" post. I then take at least some responsibility for the misinterpretation of the writer's words.
*These charges are "serious" because they infer that I've first been grossly negligent and, even worse, I'm now further hiding my true observations, thoughts and feelings, for some nefarious reason. It is also an indirect charge of hypocrisy, since I have frequently accused the mainstream audio media of forcing their readers to "read between the lines" (though with good reason).
While the commercial audio media do what they feel is necessary to survive and profit, I am an independent audio journalist, with absolutely no commercial interests. To deliberately equate us is completely unfounded and can only be considered personally insulting. |
Arthur I am glad that the writer got in touch with you and that ALL is fine now. We can now look for further review of the Lenco turntable and hopefully all the diy people can concentrate on ways to further improve the sonics of the Lenco. |
So the man hisself, Jean Nantais came to my place today to install the new bearing assembly into my Lenco. This is the same part that is featured on the Reference Lenco (the one Arthur raves about). Upon inspection it looks well machined and is certainly a more robust piece compared to the original part that comes with the L75. Despite my probing, he wouldn't tell me what it was made of, titanium, magnesium, unobtanium? After installing it and adding a few drops of his secret recipe oil it was ready to go. I noticed that the platter spun a lot longer than previously also. Come to think of it he may have referred to it as the "8 minute bearing" previously. It doesn't last quite that long, but it certainly goes on for a while. I popped on my Father's day treat to myself, the 3 box set of Miles from India. I was a bit sceptical that there would be much difference because all that I changed was the bearing assembly, but after listening carefully to it, all I can say is wow! The first thing that was apparent was that there was a lot more air and the highs were more transparent. Also, I had always thought my system lacked bass and was toying with the idea of getting a sub to augment my Coral Beta 8s. No need for a sub any more - it really tightened it up and it now goes down to a satisfyingly deep level. Low level noise is now down significantly and that just make the background blacker resulting in sound that "pops" with greater transients and impact.
As Jean mentioned previously, this bearing assembly was only available to his customers before Arthur's review. Now that the review is out, its only available to those buying the Reference Lenco. I'm quite happy that I went ahead and placed my order before the review came out. |
Long before Arthur got his hands on a Lenco, I was impressed with his website, postings, and his open approach to review equipment and/or music.
Honesty and integrity all the way.
Congrats to Jean! |
I was asked on another forum to make a comparison between a commonly found commercial turntable and a Lenco tweaked by a marketeer, or a DIY Lenco. My response was that a turntable built by an enthusiast always trumps one built by a marketeer who only considers price points and profit margins. Everyone here knows that Jean and I have been at odds many times, but at the end of the day, I believe we are both about the music. That said, a lot of people in the audio business are not. Jean is, and I'm happy he he has found a reviewer who agrees. It's always nice when you are recognized by those who share your vision.
Win |
06-26-10: Mosin
I was asked on another forum to make a comparison between a commonly found commercial turntable and a Lenco tweaked by a marketeer, or a DIY Lenco. My response was that a turntable built by an enthusiast always trumps one built by a marketeer who only considers price points and profit margins. Everyone here knows that Jean and I have been at odds many times, but at the end of the day, I believe we are both about the music. That said, a lot of people in the audio business are not. Jean is, and I'm happy he he has found a reviewer who agrees. It's always nice when you are recognized by those who share your vision.
Win, you mention being at odds with nantais. Was this relating to design theory, choice of materials, pricing? You mention that both nantais and yourself are "about the music". What is the current price for a Saskia turntable? I was informed that the price was well over $30,000.00. Since few music lovers could afford such a table as wonderful as it may be. one might consider your table more of a "lifestyle" product where the price is the product. |
Glen,
Any differences between Jean and I can be found by reading this thread.
As far as my pricing goes, consider my costs. I don't redo an existing turntable. Rather, it is a new design that uses a lot of exotic materials, involves a lot of time to make, requires travel and the help of specialized vendors. It's expensive, but I make no apologies because I'm trying to break new ground. Hopefully, something will come of it that will apply to more affordable turntables. Meanwhile, I continue down this path...seven years and counting.
Just so you know, I haven't made any money. Still, it's a passion. |
Dear MikeyC8, If your platter continues to spin for more than 4 hours after a manual push, see your doctor.
Dear Gouldglen, You are quite a gadfly. Win is one of the best guys in the business, and he knows full well that the cost of his masterpiece places it out of the reach of most of us. So what? Both Win and Jean are idealists and advanced hobbyists who took their passions beyond the basement level, and we all benefit from that, directly or indirectly. |
Hi Win, thanks for the supportive words, it is indeed all about the music, it does my heart good to see someone recognize and fasten on the best drive system to reproduce music from LPs, and then take it as far as he can take it. Don't pay no never mind to my publicist, he's off his meds ;-).
That said, I have to say that laying the earlier misunderstanding at my feet - that it was I who was misrepresenting something so THAT's OK then - evidently doesn't sit well with me. As they say: what am I, chopped liver? I do not write what I don't believe, and I have worked hard to build up an impeccable reputation for honesty, integrity and truth (I make no claims for diplomacy or humility ;-)), without which I could not have succeeded to the extent I did in promoting Lencos and idler-wheels. If I had come across, instead, like some Worm in some apple, the original thread would have died an early death, and there would be no Lenco forums. But as many discovered back then, who had actually decided to find Lencos and actually listen to them before pronouncing on them, nothing nefarious was going on, it was just that, as regards Lencos and idler-wheels, as now also testified and endorsed by Arthur, I was speaking the simple truth. Short form: as Lew said I’m an idealist (NOT a diplomat), Arthur does not have a monopoly on integrity.
It is good to finally see my years-long campaign to focus on the idler-wheel drive system – and the question of drive systems in general - now verified by a specialist audio figure, publicly. Back when I first proposed this Garrard-ers claimed it was some mysterious "Garrard-ness" which was the reason for their greatness (and not some larger reason), and nobody was looking beyond the tips of their noses to the bigger picture but instead simply defending their limited turf: Linnies promoted their Linns, EMT-ers their EMTs, Technics SP-10-ers looked down on other DDs (especially Sonys), Garrard-ers looked down on Lenco-ers (and so bitterly opposed the Lenco movement). Territoriality Uber Alles.
Now, after Arthur's exhaustive and comprehensive analysis, with a tremendous audio and vinyl playback background, he comes to the conclusion, after all, that it MUST be the drive system which explains the Lenco's Greatness. To make the point short: I had no agenda to aggrandize myself (as so many opponents hungry for recognition charged, peddled out so often it has become a sort of dogma by dint of simple repetition – unexamined and unquestioned by the less perspicacious as so many things are), I KNEW something was true, and battled for several years to have it recognized because I knew it was true, nothing else.
Back in 1992, when I first discovered the idler-wheel principle via the cheap little Garrard SP-25 record-changer - a story I've told often - I instantly recognized that the greatness I heard then (which I DID hear), with that crappy little record changer, could only be due to the drive system (there could be no other explanation). That little Garrard awakened me to the fact of the superiority of idler-wheel drive (as Arthur found, it could be nothing else), and I set out, once I had done the research, to find a Garrard 301 or 401. But in those pre-internet days, in Scandinavia, all I could find was a Lenco, accidentally (I didn't know what it was, but I knew it was an idler, and the biggest /heaviest one I'd seen yet). And, a decade on, with time on my hands one day while doing some media analysis, I decided to promote the idler-wheel via the Lenco. I won’t deny that simple mischief also added a fun factor (I later regretted this more than once ;-)).
If you click on my “system” page, posted back in 2004, you’ll find a RATIONAL explanation of why the idler-wheel drive system is superior to the belt-drive system in so many sonic ways: "Idler wheel drives in general were originally designed to overcome stylus drag, as in their day cartridges tracked at 10 grams. As tracking forces diminished, idler-wheel drives became more refined, but retained their resistance to stylus drag. As time went on and VTF dropped to below 2 grams, it was thought stylus drag could be combatted by the simple use of mass, and not the brute force of rumbly idler-wheel drives, which were discredited, even though their rumble figures were in fact better than those of the then-rising Linn LP12." But this was ignored by those who simply preferred to believe otherwise (i.e. they weren’t going to let logic or evidence contaminate their beliefs).
So now I ask you to THINK (I know it's tough ;-): Given I have proven myself repeatedly to be motivated by truth, given I have proven myself to be right again and again, given I have discovered, recognized and promoted umpteen ways to further improve on, AND recognize, the various greatnesses of the Lenco and Idlers in general, that you might, just MIGHT, consider that if I write something, do something, or believe something, that it might be wise to give me a little credit, and think there might be something to it, and not simply dismiss it as dishonest, wrong or stupid or, indeed, a “marketing ploy.” I believe in what I do (as Mosin does in what he does), and I have rational, and tested, reasons for doing so.
Now, I had the temerity to send out a wooden Lenco. AND I had the audacity to use the original Lenco chassis. Remember, I had the temerity and audacity too of claiming, before and against the world in an actual campaign, that belt-drive was not the superior system, that the idler was. So get used to it. The results are out. Use your heads if possible, and without the rhetorical techniques of damning with faint praise (claiming that “of course we knew the Lenco could outperform any belt-drive”). I remember when it was Lenco forum members who were first to jump and say – when a SME 30 owner admitted that the Lenco had superior dynamics and presence (and tacitly admitted it equaled the SME for raw detail) which he judged was colouration – “Of course we know the DIY Lenco cannot outperform state-of-the-art ‘tables, sanity at last (referring to me)!!” I’ve been here quite literally from the beginning and I’ve seen it all of course. There are many things belt-drives and DDs – and other idler-wheel drives - can teach us, like how low a noise floor is possible from vinyl, how much torque or inertia is needed, how short we are on high frequencies, how effective certain materials are, how much imaging information is possible, how significant inertia is in the real world, any number of things which helps us develop idlers – and the Lenco – further. To say simply “of course we knew the Lenco could outperform any belt-drive” shuts you off from an important source of information and thus improvements (until you hear a Forsell, how can you know if you have a shortfall in noise floor, high frequencies or imaging?).
I sent Arthur a wooden Lenco and waited for the outcome (and excuse me Arthur, but Arthur is not easy to deal with, I was on tenterhooks). Now THAT, my friends, is conviction (born of experience/empirical evidence). I also did it so that it would be understood that it was the Lenco (and its drive system), and not some exotic material, which was responsible for the sound (which most certainly would have been the conclusion of any belt-drivers or DD-ers). The results are now posted, the analysis in-depth and complete. I think I have settled the issue of "insurmountable problems" with wood. More particularly, I have demonstrated that a PTP is not necessary to achieve state-of-the-art black backgrounds, and in the process proven the value of Direct Coupling to wood. As Arthur wrote: “As it turned out, the Lenco's sound-floor was basically as low as the Forsell's (which has an air-bearing platter). In fact, I couldn't distinguish them. Since the Forsell had the lowest sound-floor I ever experienced, the Lenco's (highly welcome) achievement in this area is both surprising and unexplainable (at this time).”
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. Likewise there are more woods than simple birch-ply and mdf, more ways of assembling them, more ways of extracting the best from them: practically-speaking, an infinite number of ways and combinations of materials. They can be “tuned” for astounding performance, supreme tonal accuracy, complete freedom of dynamics (something you would learn, if you bothered to listen to, and respect, the best of belt-Drive, DD, Idler, and so know what to shoot for). There's more than one way to skin a cat.
Sorry for such a long post, but I’ll soon stop posting altogether, and simply set up a website (not a forum, mind you, I’m tired of infestations) and so free myself to devote more time to work and life. Speaking of cats, I’ll be back with the story of the Balinese cats, plinths, and how perfection is not possible – or allowed – on earth. But I’m not in a hurry.
I'll soon be gone from forums (I'm sure this will be a relief for many :-)), time to enjoy life and get on with other things, I hope that some of you at least enjoyed the ride. Enjoy your Idlers all!!! |
HEY! You better not leave before spilling some beans :)
Mike |
When you do finally get your website going Jean, I wish you the best. Thanks for carrying the torch for so long. |
I have to good fortune of living in the same city as Jean and have had the opportunity to hear his work up close and personal on a couple of occasions. I was so impressed with his work I purchased a turntable from him about a year ago. Buying a table from Jean is not a transaction, it's an experience, and a very positive one at that!
When he returned from his travels he contacted me to let me know about the new spindle his machinist was building and asked if I would be interested in trying one out in my table. Limited offer as he was only going to offer it on his new tables after a period of time. I have to admit I was a little skeptical about a spindle making a significant difference.
Anyways Jean delivered and installed the spindle a few weeks ago and and I was shocked at the difference I heard right from the get go. There have been many descriptions of the effect of the upgrade in previous posts, I'll just reinforce my major observation. There was much more flow to the music with the new spindle, everything from rock to Jazz to Classical was much more musical and balanced to my ear. It's important to me that music draws me in emotionally and that my system gives me that experience. I have to say that the initial addition of the table did that for me and the upgrade to the new spindle magnified that experience.
Jean is a first class guy to deal with and I wish all the people I had dealings with in business had the kind of passion he has for his business and his field of expertise. Thanks Jean! |
Good Luck Jean!! I wish you the Best...you deserve it!!!
Thanks for your time
Lawrence |
Good Luck Jean!! I wish you the Best...you deserve it!!!
Thanks for your time
Lawrence |
WoW!!!! What an amazing thread this has been! Jean, My apologies for not getting back to you regarding the Slate! I've had busy, crazy times, I am a father now... (3yrs. old! time flies) and a foster parent to two teenage boys, a career change, a major move.... but one thing has remained constant: My rather utilitarian looking, but incredible sounding Hybrid CLD/Slate Lenco!
I've not changed a single THING in over 2 years! And that's saying a lot... Phonostage, cartridges,amp, speakers, CD player have all changed, (some several times) But that Lenco has remained unchanged!!!
I want to thank all of you guys for your enthusiasm, and sharing of ideas, and encouragement! To find a component that truly completely satisfies in our often maddening hobby is a blessing... being able to DIY such a component is even more so!
Now.... I keep hearing about these bearings, and spindles and such, and I'm getting mighty curious!
Maybe it's time to haul out that old 88 I have gathering dust in the basement?
Muahahahahahaaa!
Daiwok, Jean, RF, and all of you other fellows, it's nice to know you are still out there, keeping it going and getting others interested!
I've been following Arthur's website for a couple of years now, and will continue to do so.
Yayyy Lenco!!
Harvey |
"WoW!!!! What an amazing thread this has been! "
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So I take it that since Jean has departed, the thread is dead?
Isn't there anything we can do here to keep improving the Lenco? Or has all that activity gone to Lenco Heaven and Lenco Référence (French)? |
It seems like the plinth is still evolving. I asked a question on Lenco Heaven recently regarding making a plinth out of hardwood only - and there was/is speculation that Jean might be making his plinths like that now. Salvator's plinth looked like solid Oak - but maybe it was just solid wood over the traditional mdf/ply sandwich. I, for one, would like to talk about that.
Then there are at least three guys making or planning new bearings for the Lenco. I have two on order from Jeremy from Lenco Heaven.
Finally, I saw something the other day that peaked my curiosity: Garage-a-Records is selling an archival turntable with a delrin platter. It occurred to me that it would be really cool to experiment with the platter alone on a Lenco base.......
BTW: I just built a three arm Lenco G99 which I pretty-fied by painting it white - pics soon in my system.
Mike |
Jean Nantais has a new website:
Turntables by Jean Nantais
http://www.idler-wheel-drive.com |
How about a link with pictures |
The URL is right there. Copy and paste into your browser.
However, some have reported that Jean's picture gallery locks up their browser. |
What a perfect coincidence! I was just this morning contmplating what it would take to do just this!! Count me in!! |
What !!!!!
I guess there won't be anymore going to home depot and building a ranking TT for less than 200 by jean , Huh?
:):):):):) |
@Weseixas: By Jean, no. By yourself, yes...once you've discounted the cost of the Lenco itself. |
|
WHAT I DID WITH STRING, SARAN WRAP AND PENNIES
I was sitting at home during an extreme cold snap (similar to today’s extreme cold snap which is why I’m writing this :-)) which made it impossible for me to work in my workshop, and so I decided, FINALLY, to address the issue of that damned Lenco idler-wheel spring. Pay attention now y’all as I’m about to provide the Keys to Paradise, a MAJOR upgrade to the Lenco’s sound and overall performance regardless of implementation/flavour, to all Lenco aficionados, DIYers and client/buyers alike. The “competition”, already living in fear of the Lenco, will have the bar raised - overall performance - quite a bit further, heh-heh.
So let me tell you about the TJN Mod (named pithily in remembrance of the fab Twl Mod for the Rega tonearms which was popular back at the start of the original Home Despot thread) which you can either fabricate/cobble yourselves extremely cheaply (as I’ll explain in some detail), or simply order entire as a kit later (dependent on availability/time). It’s been at the back of my mind for years, but since the Lenco is so amazing I never got around to actually testing it out, thank the cold spell.
As I’ve written since the beginning in the Long Ago and Far Away (i.e. since my first attempt to start the Idler-Wheel Revolution), the reason the Lenco is such a sonically-amazing record player is not Magic Lenco Fairy Dust as some seem to want to believe, but simple engineering: torque from the combination of a powerful motor married to an amazing flywheel-platter via a delicate idler wheel and the resulting speed stability, a great resistance to the braking action of the stylus in the groove, friction, otherwise known as Stylus Force Drag.
BUT, this whole scenario depends on that damned little spring (the motor too, but that’s not at issue here). Now, I’ve rebuilt some 100+ Lencos (and others) over the years (remember I rebuilt quite a few in a variety of ways/styles/materials before ever starting the A’gon Home Despot thread) and very often any problems which come up are due to that damned little spring. Usually the issue is a tired spring, meaning it has lost its force and so the Lenco’s overall torque is severely compromised and, as demonstrated to and verified by Salvatore, leads to a serious loss of detail, SLAM, PRaT, dynamics, and so on (even imaging!). It can also lead to serious “wobbling” at higher speeds, like 45 rpm, where the wheel simply doesn’t engage reliably.
The fix to this was to snip off a few loops of the spring to make it tighter, but one had to be careful, because if the spring was shortened too much then all sorts of weird noises and grindings and bindings would occur: the force of the spring needed was pretty exact: not enough, and a serious loss of performance, too much and various problems. Add in to this that it is very likely, after all these years, that ALL Lencos are performing sub-par due to tired springs (unless NOS).
Furthermore, looking at how the spring operates on the Lenco, it is evident that, even given a spring which has all its original force intact, that it draws the idler-wheel arm closer to the motor shaft the higher the speed chosen. Which means that the higher the speed, the shorter the spring. Which means that the spring is not drawing with as much force at 45 rpm as it does at 33 rpm. Which means that the performance/sound, given “perfect” spring force at 33, will be lesser at 45 rpm than at 33 rpm. And this is assuming that the exact amount of force needed for 33 rpm actually exists.
Finally, let’s admit that the spring is a spring, which means that it is spring-Y. This means that, being a spring, it is always springing, i.e. stretching and contracting. Can you see where this is heading? It is behaving exactly like those rubber belts in belt-drives (which consequently many now replace with thread etc.) I started attacking back in the beginning, meaning that the performance, regardless of an optimized spring, is always, to a certain extent, as verified by Salvatore, being compromised. Now it is obvious that the Lenco spring DID work as the Lenco’s speed stability relative to pretty well everything else is clearly audible in transient speed, bass power, reach and detail, dynamics macro and micro, detail period, etc. Which is why the Lenco, essentially unknown, unrecognized and reviled only 6-7 years ago, now stands high along with the Garrards, EMTs, and top belt-drives of today.
So you can see why I think of it as That Damned Little Spring. Especially given the heights to which I’ve brought the Lenco, which made that Damned Little Spring all the more galling, since my end results depended so much on it, a major weakness and so problem (i.e. in almost every case – not all - a problem with the Lenco can be traced to That Damned Little Spring).
But what if we could ensure optimal performance of the Lenco, all the time, at every speed, with utter stability and dependability, forever!!??!!
So, up opened the Mighty TJN R&D Laboratory. I took out scissors, Saran Wrap, pennies (being in Canada, Canadian pennies) string, and a drill bit. The intent was to measure the force of the spring, which I measured in grams. I needed a cradle which had no weight, hence the Saran Wrap (this message brought to you by Saran Wrap TM :-)!!!) and string. Doing some research, I discovered that all Canadian pennies minted between the year 2000 and today weigh in at 2.35 grams. So, I cut a square of Saran Wrap (doubled for strength), poked a hole at each of the four corners, knotted string at each to form a weightless cradle, and suspended it from the spring. I started to pile in the year 2000+ Canadian pennies until I reached an amount which seemed not to drag on it too much, but enough to cause it to stretch comfortably. I counted the pennies, then multiplied the amount by 2.35 grams. Ta-Da, a precise amount, double-checked via a postal scale.
I then drilled a hole in the Lenco, beyond the motor in the same general direction as That Damned Little Spring post but in a place where it would not interfere with motor or plinth, and inserted one of the brass, rounded inserts which originally held the on-off switch, to ensure the string was not catching on any edges to give me a false reading. I then ran the string through the brass insert and, cutting off the spring so that only one loop remained (so no springing), hooked the string to the loop/idler-wheel arm so that it was tied to the idler-wheel arm, the other end hanging below the motor. The Lenco itself was sitting high above the floor on stilts so I could have access to the cradle (see photo of the experiment under my “System” page).
I piled the pennies in and turned the Lenco on. BAM the platter started up, and the silence was astonishing. That Damned Little Spring makes noise too; The Glorious Little String does not :-). I checked the torque by hand as I always did when optimizing That Damned Little Spring and the torque was amazing. I added pennies and subtracted them to test torque at various pressures, even pulling on the string/cradle to add pounds of force weight to see if I could increase torque/speed stability. The end result of all this was that after a surprisingly small amount of weight/pressure/force, there is no increase in torque. Not enough and there is a very definite decrease in torque. Too much and not only is there no increase in torque, but there will be undue wear on the wheel and strain on the motor.
If there’s something I’ve learned in my years of participating in and reading internet forums, it’s that for every idea/result someone will rise up to say Nay, and someone else will rise up to Defend, regardless of the worth or not of the idea. So, I’m not going to give anyone a hook to attack and criticize my results by publishing the optimum weight I’ve arrived at, as I know from experience someone wanting attention will say “It is not enough, I’ve come up with better weight” and someone else will rise up and say “It is too much, I’ve come up with a better weight.” Then armed camps will rise up and the X-weighters will oppose the Y-weighters, and the thing will go the way these things always do, in an increasing fracturing of the Brotherhood I had naively in mind when I started on A’gon (I gave up on that idea as, evidently, impractical nonsense).
So I’ll give pointers now on design of a cheap DIY TJN Mod, and leave you all to it. To those who want a finished kit-form TJN Mod, with threaded insert for secure bolting to the Lenco chassis with rounded lip which raises the string to the level of the arm (so pulling at a perfect 90-degree lateral angle at X-gram force) and which extends to below the motor so there is no fouling of the string/weight possible, machined brass weight with hole, measures string with hooks at both ends and template so you find the exact position on your chassis, contact me, I haven’t yet decided on a price, but it will be about $60. For those who will inevitably rise up and scream WHAT, so expensive???!?? I remind you I don’t use 13-year old children in sweat shops in Asia, but a locally-based European machinist who has made reality my exacting and precise and practical and simple design, using real and pricey metals, then there’s my own time an materials.
So here’s the instructions to the TJN Mod, look at my photo too. I had first contemplated plastic fishing line for the thread due to its low friction, but decided that plastic, being hard, would transmit vibrations, and given the extreme silence and “mushiness” of simple string, decided on cotton thread on the same principle (I rejected polyester thread based on this same principle). Find the spot on your Lenco which doesn’t interfere with your motor or scrape against the inner platter. I used the brass insert which comes with the original Lenco on-off switch due to its rounded/smooth edges, it’s a 5/16th inch hole, so small and easy to drill (I use this same diameter for my kit for this same reason), but you can use something along the same idea somewhere else, have a blast. Cut the spring to the last loop so that there is no longer any springing, it’s convenient and easier than stringing directly to the idler-wheel arm, it only has to pull with a certain force expressed in grams which, being a weight subject to gravity, it will do with Supreme and Eternal Reliability (WARNING: do NOT take the Lenco into outer space and expect the same results). I use fish hooks at both ends which I snip so that there is no risk of blood spilled, After finding the weight you like best, simply hook your weight (which can be glued-together pennies, or a bolt and nuts or or or…, just be sure it’s not scraping your plinth or motor) from the other end.
Even if certain of you don’t agree, for whatever reason (as is almost certain to occur) that the TJN Mod is a sonic improvement, be aware of the other issue, that being that That Damned Little Spring will be gone, to be replaced with something which will NEVER wear out or get loose or tired and will ALWAYS work with exactly the same force you’ve determined is ideal at every speed, FOREVER. Now THAT’s peace of mind :-).
In MY current set-up, which is, for the moment, a Koetsu Black mounted to a Triplanar mounted to my Reference Lenco with spring already optimized (prior to the TJN Mod), I noticed the following things: first of all, the utter silence of the mechanism itself, which now always works. Sonically, previous to the TJN Mod, I had found this set-up a tad on the polite side, both the Triplanar and the Koetsu being on the more polite/rolled-off-highs side of things compared with other tonearms and cartridges. But, after the mod, suddenly the Triplanar/Koetsu combo sounded much more incisive, with even quicker transients and more extended and aggressive – in a GOOD way (more defined and forceful) – high frequencies. The bass gained in power and detail in the bass is amazing (it was already excellent via the Triplanar/Koetsu combo). PRaT/timing has become much more exciting still (already very good), an album which I had worn out in terms of interest – Kraftwerk’s Electric Café which I had indeed played previously on this combo (one of my test records) – became once again rivetting with much more SLAM and excitement, in fact it was SO good that for the first time in years I had to sit entranced through the whole album. Finally, and since the Triplanar/Koetsu combo is relatively recent I can’t be sure, but while listening I realized that there seemed to be no surface noise from LPs I knew were noisy: I suddenly sat up and thought “Where the heck did the surface noise go??!!” Did it disappear the moment I set up the Triplanar/Koetsu, or did the TJN Mod do it? Further testing and results ahead.
Needless to say, all my Lenco reconstructions will from now on include the TJN Mod. Those who want a nice kit ready to go with all issues already addressed contact me via my website at www.idler-wheel-drive.com.
All those who have had various Shootouts and have come to certain conclusions prepare to seriously revise upwards!! Enjoy the Mod all!!!! And for the Gupper: Vive la Lenco, Vive la Idler-Wheel!!!! |
Oops, for the photo of the experiment so you can visualize/understand, just click on my "system" under my name. |
Hi,
I'm responding to a BAT SIGNAL. Did anybody see an awesome tweak posted anywhere around here?
Mike |
