For the Buchardt S400's, 4 ohms, 88 db. They go down to 33 Hz, as well.
Building a new system for about 5 grand
I haven't been a member here long, so forgive me if this is a repeat question.
If I have about $5000 and want to put together a quality system, where I do put the most money? I've heard speakers; others have said power source. Some say spend about equally on all components. I'd like to hear some direct answers to the question from Audiogon members (if you have to point me to an earlier forum, great).
A few things that might help:
1. My system is in a living room that is far from audio friendly. It measures about 18'x16', with some angles and openings, along with a large open area coming off one side and leading to the dining room (where I have my study). Wood floors, French doors with lots of glass about 5 feet behind the sofa, and no chance of making any adjustments (adding thick curtains, carpet or rugs, or eliminating all furniture apart from a chair and a small bourbon table).
2. I have floor standing speakers now, and they fit the room fairly well. I'm not averse to bookshelf speakers on stands, though.
3. I play some vinyl and mostly cd's. That's not likely to change. A Bluesound streamer will likely be added down the road, but shouldn't figure in to the 5 grand limit.
4. I am willing to buy used, except perhaps the cd player (or sacd/cd), unless it's under about 3 years old. I worry about older units that have wear and won't have readily available parts. If I'm being too restrictive on this, please set me straight.
5. Our tv and Blue-ray player (on which I also play SACD's) are hooked up to my power source. I'm not at all interested in an AV receiver, surround sound, or adding a sub. Two speakers only.
6, and most important. I love listening to music; I love learning about, dreaming about, scheming about, audio. I love all the time I spending browsing on Audiogon. But I love my wife more. That directly addresses the price limit, the room set up, and the number of speakers.
Again, that first question about how to spend money is important to me, though a little puzzling. Spending more on speakers is my instinct at this point; I'm glad to be corrected.
Thanks.
If I have about $5000 and want to put together a quality system, where I do put the most money? I've heard speakers; others have said power source. Some say spend about equally on all components. I'd like to hear some direct answers to the question from Audiogon members (if you have to point me to an earlier forum, great).
A few things that might help:
1. My system is in a living room that is far from audio friendly. It measures about 18'x16', with some angles and openings, along with a large open area coming off one side and leading to the dining room (where I have my study). Wood floors, French doors with lots of glass about 5 feet behind the sofa, and no chance of making any adjustments (adding thick curtains, carpet or rugs, or eliminating all furniture apart from a chair and a small bourbon table).
2. I have floor standing speakers now, and they fit the room fairly well. I'm not averse to bookshelf speakers on stands, though.
3. I play some vinyl and mostly cd's. That's not likely to change. A Bluesound streamer will likely be added down the road, but shouldn't figure in to the 5 grand limit.
4. I am willing to buy used, except perhaps the cd player (or sacd/cd), unless it's under about 3 years old. I worry about older units that have wear and won't have readily available parts. If I'm being too restrictive on this, please set me straight.
5. Our tv and Blue-ray player (on which I also play SACD's) are hooked up to my power source. I'm not at all interested in an AV receiver, surround sound, or adding a sub. Two speakers only.
6, and most important. I love listening to music; I love learning about, dreaming about, scheming about, audio. I love all the time I spending browsing on Audiogon. But I love my wife more. That directly addresses the price limit, the room set up, and the number of speakers.
Again, that first question about how to spend money is important to me, though a little puzzling. Spending more on speakers is my instinct at this point; I'm glad to be corrected.
Thanks.
25 responses Add your response
Ok, you already have a TT and phonostage. Great! Leaves greater allocation for speakers and DAC. Buying over time does help to increase budget. I would consider looking into a line level integrated and a separate DAC if thinking about additional digital sources in the future. That said, some CD players have digital inputs so that the DAC can be used by another component. Buying cables of choice is a good way to go. What is sensitivity and impedance of the Buchardt speakers? |
@millercarbon and @mesch have posted solid recommendations. I would add: 1. Choosing speakers you enjoy is important because if you are like me and love the planar sound, it changes the game regarding amplification. 2. If you like speakers that are enclosed, an integrated will be a wise choice. 3. Be sure every thing has Balanced and SE options. 4. Budget for room treatments, this will make the biggest difference between pretty good and amazing no matter your budget. My list would be 5: Speakers, Amp, Source, Wire, Room |
Thank you all who responded; lots of things to think about because of your replies. I do have a turntable (Rega P3) and phono amp (Vincent PHO-8) already, and don't feel the need to replace either. As for speakers, I'm inclined to spend a little more here than on the other pieces. My heart is currently set on the Buchardt S400's; well-reviewed, and can reach down low enough for my tastes. The smoked oak version is a thing of beauty, and by the time I'm ready to buy, there might be more available used. Otherwise, a little more than 2 grand is required. For an integrated, Hegel or Luxman would be 1 and 1A, though finding a Luxman at my price range seems unlikely. But having browsed Audiogon long enough, I suspect that I'll be able to find a used a very nice something-or-other in the $1200-2000 range. (Though Buchardt is releasing an integrated amp sometime this year, and I'll have to see what that's like; probably a little pricier than I like). That's leaves the CD player and cables. $5000 total is an unlikely target, but that's fine, as I'll be purchasing a piece at a time. I'll have to decide whether or not to risk buying a used CD player. Again, thanks. |
Hi, @anton99 it is not clear if you want as a primary source a TT or a CD player. Taking the asssumption that you need a CD player i would have a look at the following, all brand new: Speakers-Wharfedale Lintons plus their stands, a Rega Apollo CD player and an Exposure amp 3010, sell whatever you do not need and buy Audioquest cabling. If you want more a TT then a VPI or a Rega would be perfect in place of the CD as you have already one. |
Given the info you provided, with digital being the primary source over vinyl, I would: 1)Identify a short list of speakers that are not difficult to drive, having a sensitivity of 87dB or greater and true 6-8 ohm impedance. I would allocate $1500-$2000 to these. 2)Purchase a quality integrated amplifier with a phonostage providing 50-100wpc depending on the speaker chosen. Amplifier/speaker synergy is important. $1000-$1500. 3)Purchase a DAC that would support a transport (the Cambridge or Audiolab are good choices) and a streamer (also possibly your TV/Blueray). $500-$800. 4)Purchase a TT/Arm/Cartridge (possiblyProJect or Rega) with the thought to upgrade cartridge at a later date. As transducers, the speakers and the cartridge has greatest impact on the character of a system. $500-$1000. 5)Purchase cables from BlueJean Cable Company. ~$500 Total system price range herein is $4000- $5800 leaving considerable flexibility. When it comes to integrated amplifiers they can be found with internal DACs and phonostages or without either or both. Budgets for these components can be combined if space or cabling is a concern. There are many threads on AG on each of these topics. I would suggest researching these. You may wish to start ones specific to your case thereafter. Good luck on your quest and please keep us posted. |
Here is another basic active speaker option: Fram Audio out of Poland. https://fram-audio.com/pl/glosnik/kolumny-midi-120/ |
Are you dizzy yet Anton? I think Jamesdowning elliot has some good advise except for the Tektons. They are garbage. Cheap Garbage. Every speaker except the best ESLs are colored more or less. Like I said, buy new and establish yourself with a dealer and you will in the end get better pricing and service. Try not to buy speakers you have not heard. Take your time and travel around. Magneplanar Speakers have been mentioned and I really like them except they will not go down well with the wife and you will have to spend much more on an amp to drive them. Just not practical in your situation. Pay attention to specs. You want speakers that are more than 90dB/1watt/1 meter |
Swspeakers’ Swoxx active stand mount is another similar option, though not as fully "all-in-one" as the Buchardt. https://swspeakers.com/product/swoxx-hazelnut-wood/ |
Take a look at Buchardt Audio out of Denmark. The floorstanders are just outside your budget, however your overall cost will be much lower since this is a near all in one system. Their stand mounts come in much lower. The shipping and return policies are excellent. Your wife may also appreciate less component clutter and exposed wires, etc. https://www.buchardtaudio.com/products |
There are a lot of options out there, but the most important things are: 1. The system should be balanced unless you plan on constant upgrades (eg, don’t buy a $4K integrated and $500 speakers). I think in general components should cost about the same as each other with the only exception being the speakers, which should cost about double your component and integrateds which replace 2 components. So for $5k, I would budget something like $2k for speakers, $1500 for an integrated, $750 for a turntable/cartridge combo, $500 for a DAC, and $750 for cables. 2. Start with the speakers - these have the most coloration and the widest requirement range for upstream components. Speakers sound extremely different. It is a taste issue more than a quality issue. Kind of like cars, do you want a lightweight car like a lotus (sort of akin to a tube/hi efficiency speaker system) or a muscle car like a Hellcat (big class A/B with big hard to drive speakers)? Do you like a warm sound, a dynamic sound, or an analytical sound? Speakers to check out before you buy which give you a wide range that will heals you narrow your taste: Magnepans (it never ceases to shock me how good these are for the money - but they are not very dynamic and need some good power), Klipsch (highly efficient and colored but very fun - will let you use a little tube integrated), Tekton (highly efficient, dynamic, and not super colored). Once you pick the speakers, then pick the amp and upstream components. My only other suggestion is to spend more on your cartridge than you might think. I think a $750 turntable should be about $350 turntable and $400 cartridge. And finally, buy used if you care about resale, but getting new at 15% off from a dealer will save you a lot of headaches. They know how to build a system that has synergy. Let them do their thing and help you put something great together - you can replace the middleman, but he makes your life so much easier. |
I agree about curbing expenditures on CD players; a decent transport can be had for not too much and more $$ can be spent on a good DAC, either external or as part of a preamp or integrated. I did this with a deal on a Cambridge CXC transport ($300) and an MHDT Orchid DAC ($1100, which also processes my streamer). I'm presently shopping for speakers; there are tremendous values out there. It's not hard to find a $2500 speaker (new) for much less. The trick is to know what you like first, to avoid return shipping or re-sale. (How are your local options?) There are good direct companies that have pretty forgiving try-out policies. Perhaps you're already set up for these things but... power, cables, wire, all matter. I shopped carefully and exclusively for used items -- Analysis Plus, mostly and Pangea for power -- and I got them for an average of 44% off list. |
Buy used. Buy Class D for amps at this price range. Buy an integrated to save on wires (integrated are good nowadays). I use a Peachtree Nova 150 integrated, which is Class D with a built-in DAC. I also use a $450 Sonore microRendu to stream from my computer (does not have to be a good computer) to the NOVA DAC. I also use ROON, though other cheaper software clients are available. The NOVA is not balanced (XLR). I have a Tuner and SACD player hooked up to it. I had to use Cardas RCA-2-XLR plug to hook up the SACD player. So the Integrated (preamp + amp + dac) and microRendu will come in around $1200 leaving you with $3800 for speakers. There are a lot of good low cost electronics available now. Years ago the sound I am getting today with this gear was considered great. Stepping up to expensive gear today is amazing sound but it will cost more than $5K. I used the KEF LS50 speakers with the NOVA and I will never sell the LS50’s. Better electronics will make the LS50s sound even better. A small room is ideal for these speakers. You can get these speakers for as low as $800 brand new. BTW - I have a vested interest in what I wrote since I will be selling my NOVA 150. Not selling the LS50’s though and I will put $10K-$20K of electronics on them after the upgrade. |
Yes, speakers first. On that budget I would look at very efficient speakers as this lets you get away with less power. Klipsch Heresy's would be an example. They generally go down well with the wife also. Given that speaker you want at least 50 watts/ch. The Rega Brio would do nicely. Then get a Mobile Fidelity StudioDeck and slap on an Ortofon 2M Black. Should give BIG smiles. If you can find a shop that sells all the stuff you want you might get a package deal. The shop does not have to be local. Speak to Galen Carol at Galen Carol Audio https://www.gcaudio.com/ or Andrew at Park Avenue Audio. B https://www.parkavenueaudio.com/ Both Galen and Andrew take a personal interest in their clients and both stores take care of their repeat customers. So, if you plan on upgrading become a good customer and you will be taken care of:) |
At the $5k level, and addressing all your concerns, the most important thing to know is everything is equally important. Music pleasure per dollar is optimized when everything performs about the same. Money is used in lieu of performance. So budget about the same per piece. This is if you're building a "one and done" type system. The exception would be if you plan on gradually upgrading better and better. In that case then you might want to go overweight on what you think might be a sort of "anchor" or grail component. Another thing to keep in mind that you haven't mentioned is which if any of your current components you would be okay with keeping. So given the vague situation the general advice is you need speakers, amp (a good integrated, not AVR, good decision there!), CD, speaker cables, interconnects, and power cords. At the $5k level we combine the last three into one, wire. That's four things- speakers, integrated amp, CD, wire- $1200 each. Seems vague but its enough to focus your search. No point looking at $2500 speakers. Unless they turn your wife on enough to be worth it. Unless you take $1k off the CD budget, which makes sense as you can buy a good CDP for $200 and besides no matter which one you buy in two years its worth $200 anyway, so why spend more? Didn't include a turntable in there because I assume you already have one. Turntables are a whole separate thing where you have to consider the phono stage, stand alone or built into the amp, on and on. If you really do like music it would make more sense to put $2500 into the analog front end (table, arm, cart, phono stage) and build from there. But that's just me. This is you. As for acoustics, you can buy a sheet or two of Owens Corning 703 acoustic panels for like $10. This is the raw material inside many expensive acoustic panels. In raw form its ugly- but also cheap and light. It cuts easily. So you cut and experiment with the raw panels then see what nice fabric your wife would like to cover them with. If it works you have better acoustic treatment than you could buy for thousands. If it doesn't you only wasted $10 and some time. |
