Blue Note Tone Poet Series
Chick Corea – Now He Sings, Now He Sobs - Blue Note Tone Poet Series https://youtu.be/UPaHOUFDCuY Altec 604 - EMT 948 - Lee Morgan - Ill Wind - Cornbread https://youtu.be/URFy3BXhLJM |
There is a very charming guy posting videos on YouTube, his "handle" being 45 RPM Audiophile. He is German, but makes most his videos speaking English. He reviews LP's from all the audiophile labels, from MoFi to The Electric Recording Company. He has done a number of videos about The Tone Poet LP's, and is very demanding and knowledgeable about recorded quality, as well as mastering and pressing. His critique includes the quality of the covers, even the labels at the center of each LP! I discovered him via a "Vinyl Community" (as they refer to themselves) YouTube poster named Norman Maslov, He's located in Seattle Washington, and has done a LOT of videos. He is aware of audiophiledom, but doesn't focus on it the way 45 RPM Audiophile does. He too is very charming, as well as entertaining, witty, knowledgeable, and smart. He has a fairly massive music collection, on both LP and CD. Books about music too. And the largest Beatle collection I've ever seen (it fills an IKEA 6 x 6 rack!). They are both easy to find: Once on YouTube, just enter either 45 RPM Audiophile or Norman Maslov (he refers to himself as Mazzy), hit enter, and they will magically appear. Big fun! |
Herbie Hancock – My Point Of View - "Blind Man, Blind Man" - Blue Note Tone Poet Series https://youtu.be/CM1rEpImJeo Lee Morgan – The Cooker - "A Night In Tunisia" - Blue Note Tone Poet Series https://youtu.be/XcfFcKlPiic |
To my ears the Tone Poet series sound even better than the Music Matters series because they benefit from the new vinyl formulation that did not exist before. This manifests itself as quieter surfaces, hence greater dynamic range, more obvious on some releases than others. In other respects not much to choose between them. Don't re-buy releases that you already have from Music Matters. |
Chet Baker Signs https://youtu.be/e7L-8vIDWbU https://youtu.be/kABbL_lENF8 Kenny Barrell Introduction https://youtu.be/f3zHx46d3OM |
BN80 and Tone Poet (along with MM and Classic Records 200g series and Speaker's Corner but they don't issue Blue Notes) are all analog. Wax Time, and other Euro brands that issue cheaper Blue Notes and older jazz records are unofficial and sourced from CDs after the copyrights ran out. Keep this in mind. There's basically no reason to buy those other than aesthetics. Best bang for the buck are also all the OJC (Original Jazz Classics) issued in the 80's, they are all analog and are easy to find for $5 - $25 range depending on condition and rarity. Typically cheap. I have a pretty decent collection of BN originals, all three reissues: MM, BN80, and TP are excellent comparatively. |
Nitewulf, A case can be made for WaxTime, sound quality is similar the basic Blue Note re-issues. Records are well made, 180 gram vinyl, clean, quiet surfaces, with centered spindle holes! Packaging includes poly-lined dust covers and nice artwork. In addition to the original liner notes, there is always updated information and in most cases one or two additional cuts per side. Most importantly, the company is issuing music that is long out of print and hard to find used if excellent condition is important. I recently purchased an entire set of Oscar Peterson Trio recordings each focused on a major songsmith. Gershwin, Kern, Arlen, Berlin, Porter etcetera. I have been trying for a while to get clean copies of these and they are hard to find. Interestingly enough, the WaxTime ones all sound better than the few originals I have. Bill |
@billstevenson - they are fine as long as you know they are sourced from the CDs (hence the extra tracks). I mean they are cheap and you get the large format artwork. Plus they are new pressings so they are clean and noise free compared to used vintage albums. I am just saying people shouldn't confuse those with all analog productions which are harder to make and they are also remastered and all sound extremely good. |
Nitewulf, We seem to be in agreement on this issue. One of the things that has been discussed and explained, but that I just can't grasp is why or how it is that a digital master or CD can be used to make a vinyl record and almost invariably the vinyl version will sound better assuming the surfaces are clean and the spindle hole is centered. That just defies logic. In any event the WaxTime records that I have bought all sound very good. |
Bill, I don't 100% agree there, it all depends on your digital chain right, so if your analogue chain is head and shoulders above your digital chain, then sure the vinyl sourced from CD could sound better. I personally moved to lossless digital a while back (so files only, regular 16bit and high res as well), and with a good dac and good amp, the music sounds amazing. But I have a great analog chain as well and that's why prefer the all analog reissues because they demonstrate that difference. I'm a huge proponent of lossless digital files. CDs are another issue because then the CD player or transport has to be really good and so on. |
Paul Chambers Quartet – Bass On Top - "Yesterdays" https://youtu.be/hs_fGfgGkng Paul Chambers Quartet – Bass On Top "You'd Be So Nice To Come Home To" https://youtu.be/JWctWVMZzZ8 Jackie McLean – It's Time! "Das' Dat" https://youtu.be/4py_7TUZUdw |
I love 'For Django' as well. What I don't love is that pervasive low-level 8K(ish) tone that begins with each tracks' modulation and runs throughout (except between tracks). Clearly audible even with alexberger's videos above. It seems to bother some folks, but not others. And no, it's not a pressing issue/problem. All copies must have it - you can either reproduce it or not. |
alexburger-Nice to hear the Joe Pass cuts. Longtime fan of Joe. Back in the late 70's as a young student of the instrument, I had the privilege to sit 20 feet away, and study his every move at the local college with my instructor. I have many Pablo LPs of Joe. A good live performance is Joe Pass, Oscar Peterson and a Danish bassist-Niels Orsted Pedersen- "The Good Life" "I just can't grasp is why or how it is that a digital master or CD can be used to make a vinyl record and almost invariably the vinyl version will sound better assuming the surfaces are clean and the spindle hole is centered." "I don't 100% agree there, it all depends on your digital chain right, so if your analogue chain is head and shoulders above your digital chain, then sure the vinyl sourced from CD could sound better." billstevenson/nitewulf- I play a big ol' Jazz box like Joe Pass. Being a LP devotee, I will always default to the record. BUT, having heard high level of both LP/digital I say BOTH can be breathtaking. Squinting my eyes, leaning forward- not truly enjoy the performance and trying to determine if it's a live or Memorex moment is something I've never done. I do think a subjective amount of "organic presence" i.e.- the sound of fingers moving across the fretboard or fingers just off enough to not fret a note/chord precisely is something even an UBER setup/room will never replicate 100% convincingly. You can hear that stuff on any decent recording/setup LP or digital.
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Thank you for sharing your videos with us! In regards to the recent releases of the Blue Train, I'm curious if you used the same cartridge for all three pressings? Or did you use a mono cartridge for the mono pressing? Does your preamp have a mono switch? Thank you again for your time and help. P.S. I just received notice today that my Blue Train Complete Masters was being shipped today... I'm looking forward to hearing it on my system 😊 Best wishes, Don |
Hi @no_regrets I used the same stereo setup in all Blue Train videos. I have EMT TSD15SFL cartridge. I whish to have EMT TMD25 mono cartridge, but the quantity of mono records in my collection doesn't justify this purchase. Regards, Alex. |
@palasr
I'm glad that I'm not the only one who notices it on For Django, at loud volumes that tone is rather distracting! Was beginning to think there was something amiss with my system. Otherwise For Django is a lovely album, with superb guitar playing and very good sound quality. Overall, Tone Poets have been a hit for me, I have almost every one and look forward to new releases. Off the top of my head, the only overt Tone Poet sonic miss is Money Jungle, my guess the tape used was worn or the original recording just wasn't good, I haven't heard any other presses so I don't know. |
@alexberger Thank you so much for your reply on the cartridge that you were using for the videos 😊 I just received my copy from Music Direct of the Blue Train Complete Masters stereo issue. Listening to it right now... great recording as many of the other Tone Poets that I have. However, I have to say that I prefer my King pressing from 1978 more. My King pressing is more dynamic, with a fuller, more pure sound and has more presence. I really feel like I'm listening to the musicians playing live... more involving, more excitement. The Tone Poet feels more laid back and reserved to me. Don't get me wrong... I'm glad that I have the Tone Poet. These comparisons are from playing both issues back to back. If I didn't have the King or hadn't played them back to back, I'd be happy with having just the Tone Poet. Plus I love the jacket with photos and the whole physical presentation/packaging that the Tone Poet comes with! They do a top notch job and I think it's fantastic that they are bringing out this great music as reissues to all of us music lovers! Best wishes, Don |
Hi @no_regrets , I agree with you. I have around dosen Tone Poet reissues. Most of them are good but not anything special (in terms of sound of course) . I have a number of old jazz original issues as well as reissues that sound significantly better. Regards, Alex |
I'm curious, which of the two Tone Poet releases that you have of the Blue Train do you like the best on your system? The mono version or the stereo? Are you able to comment on what differences you might be able to hear sonically regarding tone, dynamics, or anything else, etc. Thank you so much for posting these videos for us all. You are an asset to the community! Best wishes, Don |
Hi @no_regrets , My first impression I prefer the Stereo version. At least on my system I like more tonal balance of the stereo version. The mono version has more mid bass and on some systems it can be advantage. I also like more spatial information that the stereo version gives. In term of tone, details I don't see a significant difference between versions. Regards, Alex. |
tablejockey, 'I play a big ol' Jazz box like Joe Pass. Being a LP devotee, I will always default to the record. BUT, having heard high level of both LP/digital I say BOTH can be breathtaking" We are in agreement. That does not address my wonder, however, at the fact that a digital source that is used to make a vinyl record can sound better than the digital source itself does. The original conversation was based on European records such as WaxTime that may have been sourced from digital masters, but now we also have the example of the MoFi controversy to back up this conversation. I just don't understand it. I know it to be true, but it doesn't make sense to me. To be clear I am not wondering about digital sound vs. analog sound per se.
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As I understand MOFI uses digital DSD recorders. They use them instead of tape recorders but they don’t do digital conversion from DSD to PCM and any kind of digital remastering that can be done only in PCM. It is not purely "analogue". But the analogue to DSD and DSD to analogue conversion stages don’t change the sound signature similar to digital editing of sound. |
I just finished recording the Classic Records 45rpm Led Zeppelin set in 24/192 ALAC with an 18 Hz 48dB/oct digital rumble filter. On my system using 8 foot 645 Sound Labs electrostatic loudspeakers nobody can tell the difference between the actual record and the digital file. I must have run that comparison 10 times by now. I also got the MoFi Rolling Stones set and much more to come. This is way superior than recording to any analog R2R machine and once you own the program and electronics, free of charge. I am thrilled to death with this capability and highly recommend it to anyone with access to large record collections. That LZ box is now on the market for $12,000! |
