Blue Note Tone Poet Series

Chet Baker – Sings And Plays With Bud Shank, Russ Freeman And Strings - "Someone To Watch Over Me"

https://youtu.be/BCIP2nNmIZE

"Let's Get Lost"

https://youtu.be/dqYFXCqpTQo

"Just Friends"

https://youtu.be/Dezzwk3cUbM

 

 

Gil Evans Orchestra – Great Jazz Standards - "Davenport Blues"

https://youtu.be/9HJvYIMRHjQ

For example, Tone Poets - Chet Baker, Art Pepper, Phil Urso – "Picture Of Heath" sounds very good.

Other examples from what I have in this series: Chet Baker Sings, Kenny Barrel Introduction, Paul Chambers Bass on Top.

 

Alex:  you noted that most of the blue note tone series you purchased were ok sonically but nothing special.  Would you be willing to share your thoughts on any exceptions? 

 

 

Wow, I've got at least two dozen of these purchased either at the local record store or through Elusive Disc and everyone is perfect. Flat, clean, low noise. These are some of the best jazz reissues out there IMHO.

I only have the Blue Train and it is not warped. It’s also a very good sounding record. 

Yes you are right. A big percentage of Tone Poet and Blue Note Classic series LP are curved.  The quality control should be better.

I've been dabbling in the purchase of some of the Blue Note and Tone Poet re-issues to selectively curate some holes in my modest jazz collection.

But, I'm skittish as the last two orders have had warps and surface defects.  Blue Note has been cooperative in replacing the bad LPs, but it seems like a crap shoot for getting defect free LPs.  

My last order included Jackie MacLean's A Fickle Sonance that came warped - BN sent a replacement, and it too was warped in the exact same manner - so not a shipment issue, more like a pressing lot was bad.  I asked if they could open a 3rd LP before shipment to check and they said that's against policy, so I took a refund instead.

Is it just me (again)?

 

 

 

I just finished recording the Classic Records 45rpm Led Zeppelin set in 24/192 ALAC with an 18 Hz 48dB/oct digital rumble filter. On my system using 8 foot 645 Sound Labs electrostatic loudspeakers nobody can tell the difference between the actual record and the digital file. I must have run that comparison 10 times by now.

I also got the MoFi Rolling Stones set and much more to come. This is way superior than recording to any analog R2R machine and once you own the program and electronics, free of charge. I am thrilled to death with this capability and highly recommend it to anyone with access to large record collections. That LZ box is now on the market for $12,000! 

As I understand MOFI uses digital DSD recorders. They use them instead of tape recorders but they don’t do digital conversion from DSD to PCM and any kind of digital remastering that can be done only in PCM.

It is not purely "analogue". But the analogue to DSD and DSD to analogue conversion stages don’t change the sound signature similar to digital editing of sound.

@alexberger730 

Thank you for taking the time to post the videos. I haven't bought many of the Tone Poets but I think you've made a compelling case for the Joe Pass.

tablejockey,

'I play a big ol' Jazz box like Joe Pass. Being a LP devotee, I will always default to the record. BUT, having heard high level of both LP/digital I say BOTH can be breathtaking"

We are in agreement.  That does not address my wonder, however, at the fact that a digital source that is used to make a vinyl record can sound better than the digital source itself does. The original conversation was based on European records such as WaxTime that may have been sourced from digital masters, but now we also have the example of the MoFi controversy to back up this conversation.  I just don't understand it.  I know it to be true, but it doesn't make sense to me. To be clear I am not wondering about digital sound vs. analog sound per se. 

 

 

Agreed on stereo Blue Train. It might be one of the best Tone Poets so far. 

I just received my copy of the Stereo version of the “Blue Train” yesterday. Listened to the first LP twice already. Excellent pressing! Will check out the second LP (alternate takes) today. Highly recommend it. 

@alexberger 

Thank you, Alex for your reply and sharing your thoughts with us!  I was originally tempted to get the mono, but now am glad I bought the stereo version.  Plus I enjoyed listening to the alternate takes too 👍

Best wishes,

Don

Hi @no_regrets ,

My first impression I prefer the Stereo version.

At least on my system I like more tonal balance of the stereo version. The mono version has more mid bass and on some systems it can be advantage. I also like more spatial information that the stereo version gives. In term of tone, details I don't see a significant difference between versions.

Regards,

Alex. 

@alexberger 

I'm curious, which of the two Tone Poet releases that you have of the Blue Train do you like the best on your system?  The mono version or the stereo?  Are you able to comment on what differences you might be able to hear sonically regarding tone, dynamics, or anything else, etc.

Thank you so much for posting these videos for us all. You are an asset to the community!

Best wishes,

Don

Hi @no_regrets ,

I agree with you. I have around dosen Tone Poet reissues. Most of them are good but not anything special (in terms of sound of course) . I have a number of old jazz original issues as well as reissues that sound significantly better.

Regards,

Alex

@alexberger  Thank you so much for your reply on the cartridge that you were using for the videos 😊

I just received my copy from Music Direct of the Blue Train Complete Masters stereo issue.  Listening to it right now... great recording as many of the other Tone Poets that I have.  However, I have to say that I prefer my King pressing from 1978 more.  My King pressing is more dynamic, with a fuller, more pure sound and has more presence.  I really feel like I'm listening to the musicians playing live... more involving, more excitement.  The Tone Poet feels more laid back and reserved to me. 

Don't get me wrong... I'm glad that I have the Tone Poet.  These comparisons are from playing both issues back to back.  If I didn't have the King or hadn't played them back to back, I'd be happy with having just the Tone Poet.  Plus I love the jacket with photos and the whole physical presentation/packaging that the Tone Poet comes with!  They do a top notch job and I think it's fantastic that they are bringing out this great music as reissues to all of us music lovers!

Best wishes,

Don

@palasr  

 

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who notices it on For Django, at loud volumes that tone is rather distracting!  Was beginning to think there was something amiss with my system.  Otherwise For Django is a lovely album, with superb guitar playing and very good sound quality.  Overall, Tone Poets have been a hit for me, I have almost every one and look forward to new releases.  Off the top of my head, the only overt Tone Poet sonic miss is Money Jungle, my guess the tape used was worn or the original recording just wasn't good, I haven't heard any other presses so I don't know.

Hi @no_regrets 

I used the same stereo setup in all Blue Train videos. I have EMT TSD15SFL cartridge. I whish to have EMT TMD25 mono cartridge, but the quantity of mono records in my collection doesn't justify this purchase.

Regards,

Alex.

@alexberger 

Thank you for sharing your videos with us! 

In regards to the recent releases of the Blue Train, I'm curious if you used the same cartridge for all three pressings?  Or did you use a mono cartridge for the mono pressing?  Does your preamp have a mono switch?

Thank you again for your time and help.

P.S.  I just received notice today that my Blue Train Complete Masters was being shipped today...  I'm looking forward to hearing it on my system 😊

Best wishes,

Don

alexburger-Nice to hear the Joe Pass cuts. Longtime fan of Joe. Back in the late 70's as a young student of the instrument, I had the privilege to sit 20 feet away, and study his every move at the local college with my instructor.

I have many Pablo LPs of Joe. A good live performance is Joe Pass, Oscar Peterson and a Danish bassist-Niels Orsted Pedersen- "The Good Life" 

"I just can't grasp is why or how it is that a digital master or CD can be used to make a vinyl record and almost invariably the vinyl version will sound better assuming the surfaces are clean and the spindle hole is centered."

"I don't 100% agree there, it all depends on your digital chain right, so if your analogue chain is head and shoulders above your digital chain, then sure the vinyl sourced from CD could sound better."

billstevenson/nitewulf-

I play a big ol' Jazz box like Joe Pass. Being a LP devotee, I will always default to the record. BUT, having heard high level of both LP/digital I say BOTH can be breathtaking. 

Squinting my eyes, leaning forward- not truly enjoy the performance and trying to determine if it's a live or Memorex moment is something I've never done.

I do think a subjective amount of "organic presence" i.e.- the sound of fingers moving across the fretboard or fingers just off enough to not fret a note/chord precisely is something even an UBER setup/room will never replicate 100% convincingly.

You can hear that stuff on any decent recording/setup LP or digital.

 

Here are 3 reissues of John Coltrane Blue Train are played on the same system the same track "Blue Train".

1. Blue Note Tone Poet Series - 2022 Stereo

2. Blue Note Tone Poet Series - 2022 Mono

3. DOL blue vinyl 2016

 

 

 

I love 'For Django' as well.  What I don't love is that pervasive low-level 8K(ish) tone that begins with each tracks' modulation and runs throughout (except between tracks).  Clearly audible even with alexberger's videos above.  It seems to bother some folks, but not others.  And no, it's not a pressing issue/problem.  All copies must have it - you can either reproduce it or not. 

Just got the Pass For Django.  Love it.

 

 

 

 

Bobby Hutcherson ‎– Oblique - "My Joy"
https://youtu.be/Z0iuUmtWdp0

Paul Chambers Quartet ‎– Bass On Top - "Yesterdays"
https://youtu.be/hs_fGfgGkng

Paul Chambers Quartet ‎– Bass On Top "You'd Be So Nice To Come Home To"
https://youtu.be/JWctWVMZzZ8

Jackie McLean ‎– It's Time! "Das' Dat"
https://youtu.be/4py_7TUZUdw

Bill,

I don't 100% agree there, it all depends on your digital chain right, so if your analogue chain is head and shoulders above your digital chain, then sure the vinyl sourced from CD could sound better.  I personally moved to lossless digital a while back (so files only, regular 16bit and high res as well), and with a good dac and good amp, the music sounds amazing. But I have a great analog chain as well and that's why prefer the all analog reissues because they demonstrate that difference. I'm a huge proponent of lossless digital files. CDs are another issue because then the CD player or transport has to be really good and so on.

Nitewulf,
We seem to be in agreement on this issue.  One of the things that has been discussed and explained, but that I just can't grasp is why or how it is that a digital master or CD can be used to make a vinyl record and almost invariably the vinyl version will sound better assuming the surfaces are clean and the spindle hole is centered.  That just defies logic.  In any event the WaxTime records that I have bought all sound very good.

@billstevenson - they are fine as long as you know they are sourced from the CDs (hence the extra tracks). I mean they are cheap and you get the large format artwork. Plus they are new pressings so they are clean and noise free compared to used vintage albums. I am just saying people shouldn't confuse those with all analog productions which are harder to make and they are also remastered and all sound extremely good.

Nitewulf,
A case can be made for WaxTime, sound quality is similar the basic Blue Note re-issues.  Records are well made, 180 gram vinyl, clean, quiet surfaces, with centered spindle holes!  Packaging includes poly-lined dust covers and nice artwork.  In addition to the original liner notes, there is always updated information and in most cases one or two additional cuts per side.  Most importantly, the company is issuing music that is long out of print and hard to find used if excellent condition is important.  I recently purchased an entire set of Oscar Peterson Trio recordings each focused on a major songsmith.  Gershwin, Kern, Arlen, Berlin, Porter etcetera.  I have been trying for a while to get clean copies of these and they are hard to find.  Interestingly enough, the WaxTime ones all sound better than the few originals I have.
Bill

BN80 and Tone Poet (along with MM and Classic Records 200g series and Speaker's Corner but they don't issue Blue Notes) are all analog. Wax Time, and other Euro brands that issue cheaper Blue Notes and older jazz records are unofficial and sourced from CDs after the copyrights ran out. Keep this in mind. There's basically no reason to buy those other than aesthetics.

Best bang for the buck are also all the OJC (Original Jazz Classics) issued in the 80's, they are all analog and are easy to find for $5 - $25 range depending on condition and rarity. Typically cheap.

I have a pretty decent collection of BN originals, all three reissues: MM, BN80, and TP are excellent comparatively.

+1 for Threadgill!!

Got the entire collection, awesome analog to analog, very well priced at Amazon, Kevin Gray what can I say.

Snackeyp, if you think Trane was a bomb listen to Henry Threadgill. 
Get;  Rag, Bush and All,  To Much Sugar for a Dime and Where's Your Cup.

I just ordered up some of the TP series titles.  Looking forward to getting them.  Although I've been a rock music guy for the most part, I recently cannot get enough of really good jazz.  John Coltrane is the bomb!