I borrowed a friend's esoteric dv50s CD player. I could not believe the difference between it and streaming Spotify premium. I am now in the market for a CD player. One thing, the esoteric does not play DVD-R. Can anyone recommend a comparable CD player in the used market that does? I'm looking in the $800 - $1500 range.
@roberttdid, Yeah the BOT is a very simple device, not a single button on it. It buffers the read into memory, then error correction is done before sending it on to the BDP, as I understand it. I don’t know that much about Bryston but their support so far has been first class. It would surprise me if they manufactured something that would undermine their credentials.
The difference in sound quality between a good CD player and a really expensive CD player is not the mechanism. I will state again, that unless it has significant scratches, error corrected CDs are bit accurate representations of what is put on them with the odd unrecoverable error. That is true with cheap mechanisms and has been for a very long time. Quite easy to rip a CD at single or 2x speed and see what the different error rates are, and that CD in your computer was even cheaper.
If you buffer and reclock, (assuming you have good power supplies), then you have isolated any impact of the mechanism on the output. It comes down to a good DAC and mixed signal design at that point.
That Bryston has a low(er) cost mechanism does not have to have any impact on the resultant sound if they design the rest of it properly.
If there is buffering and reclocking after the mechanism, then a $20 mechanism is going to do just fine. Uncorrectable bit error rate is very low to 0 on CDs without substantial scratches, even with a cheap transport.
It may be too far down in this thread for this to be read by the original poster. Hoping that is not the case.
I am going to answer the actual question that you asked and address it. You will have astonishing results doing what you have asked about but it must be done in a particular way. For playback you will need a used DVD Audio format capable player. Many of these are also capable of playing SACDs. The key thing is that you will need to rip your CDs to a "music DVD" using either Roxio Titanium Toast on an Apple notebook or Roxio NXT Creator 5 or higher. They must first be converted to WMA files by the software and then burned to a "music DVD. You don’t need to buy the latest version of these programs and can find new lower versions of either of these on that auction site at lower prices.
I would suggest starting with a relatively cheap used DVD Audio capable player and then invest more if you really love what you are experiencing to get an even higher quality reading of the music DVDs. Some of the players I would look for are Denon, Integra, Pioneer Elite, or Marantz. Once you have recorded your "music DVDs" you will find that getting them to play is a little quirky. I have found that pressing stop twice on your remote control will cause any player that I have of this type to begin to be able to read the music DVD and play it.
I will be surprised if you do not have an exceptional result. Please feel free to contact me off the posting board if you have any specific questions. Have fun!
This is a mosh pit, i jump in. I been traveling this road for a time. I started streaming years ago with one of the first Sonos zone players & Napster. Quickly switched over to Deezer streaming at 16/48 as they had an exclusive contract with Sonos. Had an old Sony CD player I was using as a transport always sounded better with both sources going into my Wadia DAC via Coax. Decided to upgrade the CD player and demoed the Cambridge transport. No improvement so I stuck with the old Sony. Then I sprung for the Wyred4Sound mods to the Sonos and got a nice bump in SQ but it still got nudged out by the CD transport. Then the Sony died and I went without a transport. Next step, I got my paws on a Bryston BDP streamer and switched to Qobuz and compared that, @same bit rate, directly with the Sonos and the Bryston took the flag hands down. Always wanted another CD player just to see if it was still better. Finally scored a Bryston BOT-1 memory player that works with the BDP. Did a compare and now the advantage was gone. The streamer SQ was just as good as the transport. I gonna keep the transport so I can do a period rush by slidding in a disc and burn my buddies CDs to disk. Now I am convinced that with the correct setup, Streaming can sound as good as a CD.
If you then tie in Roon the streaming experience becomes even more compelling.
Note: The Wyred4sound Sonos ended up at my GF condo connected to a Shiit DAC and a pair of Audio Engine A5 powered speaker. Made for a tidy condo settup.
I have an Oppo 105 with extensive modifications by EVS. I used Tidal at the highest resolution. I compared the same recordings on CD and Tidal. It's easy to switch sources if you are using the same player. The Cd/Sacd/xrcd/dvd-a physical media sounds better to me every time. Now I use streaming only as a background music.
- Anyone comparing mp3 to CD quality either isn't serious or has never done a straight-up comparison.
- I've got an Oppo 105 that sounds great but why would I ever use it? My CDs are ripped to AIFF and my SACDs to DSD. My Brooklyn DAC sounds even better. I use JRiver but if you want it simple rip it all to FLAC and use Windows' Groove Music app.
Would someone please explain the references to "spinning silver"? From the posts it sounds like people are distinguishing DVD discs from CD's by their silver color, but I've seen CD's with a silver surface, too. Are the posts trying to say that DVD's inherently have better sound quality than CD's, or am I missing something?
I bought a cheap USB dac on eBay for 50 bucks (I now have 3 of them) and hooked them up to low-end chromebooks. Much better than the headphone jack. Is it better than my rega Apollo? No. Is it great for streaming Spotify, playlists, radio stations etc... while I'm cooking or any other non-critical listening? Absolutely!
only time I use my iPod is in my car or for background low volume listening. learned my lesson. Even with the lossless stuff, the CD player always sounds better.
Wait a minute, you have a very capable DAC in that NAD so why don’t you just rip cd’s and play them off a network drive?
Don’t burn CD’s they tax the "error correction" way to much, just look at the differences that a laser has try to read. Left original stamped retail cd Middle burnt gold blank cd Right burnt aluminium blank cd https://ibb.co/BTM8ft4
No wonder the burnt cd’s always sound brighter to many, there’s many more errors being fixed, and that’s just a 50% chance to get a 1 or a 0 correct, because an error is replaced by what was read before, and that’s a 50% chance to get it right. This is why many CD players won’t even play burnt cd’s as they can’t even read the TOC (table of contents)
Spotify 320kbps can sound absolutely fantastic. The app is really user friendly so easy to explore new music and create and enjoy playlists.
I get a very small delta streaming SOME higher rez content from qobuz but that delta maxed out at 24bit 96khz on my system.
What made a much much greater improvement than going up resolution to my streaming setup was getting an Etherregen to replace a cisco network switch. $660 improved the system from top to bottom, better bass, more detail, improved tone, leading edges and decay. My system imaged well before but the addition of the switch put the depth into my soundstage. I had already chased the noise floor lower with power conditioning and isolation tweaks. These were available on 30 day trial although covid has delayed the production due to availability of parts.
I think CDs can sound amazing but I only own a few dozen. Having millions of albums at your fingertips is a no brainer for me for the price of an LP a month.
I also get excellent SQ from YouTube and that's even lower quality but again what an incredible library of musical material at my fingertips and the visuals are added fun.
I have done comparisons between Esoteric DV-60 CD player, and Tidal, playing through Audirvana. As good as the Esoteric is,it comes up short. In fact,I am thinking about selling .
I agree. Try TIDAL. No noise and better sound quality. If you really must have a CD/DVD player buy an OPPO. Have fun getting up and down to change music. I can play one or two tunes from TIDAL and then move onto the rest or build my own mix of songs.
You can use a Upnp control point that has access to Tidal (I use the Bubbleupnp app for that, select Tidal as library). The Oppo 105 acts as a Upnp renderer, that you can select in Bubbleupnp and stream music to it.
My two cents, you learned the wrong conclusion. You are using a compressed streaming source, and who-knows-what DAC (you didn't say). Compared it to a high end CD player. In general, all else equal,i prefer playing FLAC/ALAC files or streaming them (or HD of course) to playing plastic CDs. And there are reasons this might be true. Slow down, experiment, learn.
I have the NAD C658 and Cambridge Audio CXC using COAX. Sound great through an original Peachtree Audio Nova (amp only) to SVS Ultra Towers and a small Outlaw Audio sub.
I also use a ripper for my Mac but you could combine all this PLUS add music to another room with a Blusound Vault 2i (one of my next steps....). It would rip and store your CDs in WAV or AIFF (my preference) or any other format for playback on the C658 or whatever you have the Vault connected to (receiver, amp, powered speakers) or both simultaneously.
In your price range I can recommend CAMBRIDGE AUDIO - CXU ($800) Decent player with five separate Wolfson WM8740 DACs on board and upsampling (Adaptive Time Filtering). upsamples all audio up to 24-bit/192kHz. “Pure Audio” mode could be used to disable all processes except those participating in audio reproduction - cool future, definitely benefits SQ. Wide range of Disc types: CD, SACD, Blu-ray (BD) including BD-3D, DVD, DVD-A, AVCHD, HDCD, Kodak Picture CD, CD-R/RW, DVD+-R/RW, DVD+-R DL, BD-R/RE. Good luck!
Wait a minute, you have a very capable DAC in that NAD so why don't you just rip cd's and play them off a network drive? You can also download hi-res files and play them at better than cd quality. I don't like your NAD's player interface, as I prefer my setup below:
HP laptop, Win7 JRiver Media Center USB out Mytek DAC
So, I would use your NAD as a DAC only, from my setup's USB output.
JRiver also has room correction but so does your NAD, to some degree. That goes a long way to better sound if you take the time to learn to do it right. You have so much flexibility with JRiver and sound quality is superb.
You said above you want the convenience of many songs on a DVD. Forget it and just play ripped files. FYI, my laptop and JRiver above cost $100 - can't beat that!
I recommend a Sony SCD 595 sacd/cd changer.Reviewed very highly.Reviewers thought it was better than the 777. I bought mine new for 199.00.Mine is still going strong over ten years.This is a multi channel unit that outputs DSD into my Marantz receiver’s analog inputs with all decoding being done by the Sony.The Marantz lets you play the sacd with no decoding from the receiver.I have played DSOM many times in 5.1 surround which is a real trip.
I have a NAD C658. (Streamer / DAC) combo. Could I just plug a hard drive full of burned files into the back and expect the same quality sound of a CD player ?
All I know is Tidal demolishes my low-end-of-high-end CD apparatus. Same DAC, same preamp. My question would be, what would it cost you to improve on Tidal/Qobuz sound? Or if the question is functionality, are you running router with Ethernet cable direct to music player, no dongle? Because dongling off remote router gives you glitches. (Not the only cause, but certainly one of them. The better players are designed to accept ONLY Ethernet direct and I gather this is why).
I have been tweaking CDs for years and (if well recorded) CDs can sound awfully good. Recently starting to embrace the whole 'streaming thing' and I have to admit it has opened a whole new world of music and video. One thing I have discovered early on is the difference between streaming services. I started with Pandora and then compared it to Tidal HiFi. For an extra $10 a month it certainly seems worth it to me.
I know there are a lot of Music Servers out there, but I have yet to see the real advantage of having one. Yes, you could get all of your music (and video) in one place, but with the ability to access virtually everything from 'the cloud', what really is the point?
The Bluesound vault is an excellent budget unit that served me well for a couple of years, ripped all my cd collection into it and backed up to an external 2tb hdd. Let’s face it they are like $65 on eBay so cheap insurance. And the vault will rip to flac or wav format, your choice. I use Roon now but that is another story entirely.
btw the dv50s is a fantastic player, I own one. If you get the chance try a dvd-a on it. A Steven Wilson remastered King Crimson disc for example. You will not want to give the dv50s back.......
puffbojie
CD player. I could not believe the difference between it and streaming Spotify premium.
You'll never look at streaming or downloads again, get your cherished dac fed the digital stream by this Cambridge Audio CXC CD Transport. https://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/cambridge_cxc_e.html To me sounded THE BEST BANG FOR BUCK there is. In Australia you can get them for $490aud new = $333usd.
I don't know about the Bluesound unit specifically, but, an all-in-one ripper/storage/streamer should be able to deliver very good sound. I personally would prefer something with more storage than 2 TB, and I prefer something that allows the CDs to be ripped to WAV files, but the Bluesound looks to be something to consider. You will also need some kind of portable drive to back up the 2 TB internal hard drive so that you won't lose everything when the internal hard drive fails (an almost inevitable event over an extended period of time).
A dedicated streamer/server can be at least as good as a very good CD player or transport; the sound quality will be mainly dictated by the DAC you employ to turn the bits into music.
So I’m I right to think that getting something like a Vault 2i from Bluesound (2tb network hard drive, cd ripper and streamer) will get me fairly close (Not the same) to the sound of a good CD player?
For the record I did have Tidal premium and it did sound much better. I felt Tidal was glitchy always giving me problems though. Also Spotify links with SoundHound so if you are out and about and hear new music, soundhound sends the song into your Spotify app on command. I find this incredibly convenient and useful. I never tried Qobuz. I will need to see what features it has. Interesting comments on the streaming. Blue sound has a nice looking ripper/server. CD clutter is not ideal.
puffbojieOP71 posts06-02-2020 9:16amWhy does a good CD player make a difference? Does it have a magical dac or is it how it reads the information?
You asked me what I use. I use a good deck. One of the biggest bangs for the buck is Sony ES series SACD. They are older, but very good playback. The 777 and 9000 will match or better, 3-6k units. I don't care who makes it. Over and over the guys, I type and mouse with, say the same. They won't hold a thousand CDs or 1000 songs. But is one of the best sources. Money is not the factor.. For once...
jl352,602 posts06-02-2020 9:24amSpotify Premium streams at 320 kbps, a CD is 1411 kbps...the rest is magic...Tidal HiFi is 1411 kbps...so a CD even without a magical DAC is better sounding than Spotify...though some believe bits are bits, many believe both the transport and DAC make a big difference
I'm in the camp Transport and Dac DO make a big difference.. As far as services, it's up to the individual. But again jl35, pointed out some are better than others.. I know, you don't have to spend thousands to get the best, to spin silver...You can though..
When it's time to concert music for me, I look to LPs, CDs, and a Server.
My server is loaded, for convenience, but a SACD, and TT are tough to beat for super high SQ.. Maybe well taken care of mastered Reel to Reel.
So for the money, a good storage device and a way to convert and store non compressed music files. When you get serious and want to concert SACD. 200 - 1500.00 best of the best..
I put together a 550. USD system, speakers, cables, Sony ES 55, tube headphone preamp, 2.1 class d amp.. The crew, though I spent thousands, and thousands.... I think it's at 625.00 now. I added handmade Harp boxes. Adds Tungsten, silver, and a few other goodies to the speaker IC. For on the fly conductor, and tuning change)
Spotify Premium streams at 320 kbps, a CD is 1411 kbps...the rest is magic...Tidal HiFi is 1411 kbps...so a CD even without a magical DAC is better sounding than Spotify...though some believe bits are bits, many believe both the transport and DAC make a big difference...plus of course quality source material which Spotify is not, and doesn’t pretend to be...the more serious debate is Tidal or Qobuz on a good streamer vs CD with the same DAC...
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