Best Tube PreAmp - McIntosh vs. Audio Research vs. VAC vs. Atma-Sphere

I’m in a very similar situation.

I recently did some system upgrades as my 5.1 channel system was the better part of 20 years old. My Anthem PrePro was outdated and acting strange. So…..what I currently have and am looking for some advice to move forward to continue upgrading my system.

Currently running a 7.2

 

B&W 803D4’s and HTM81D4 as LCR

My old B&W N805’s as surrounds on stands (they are terrific as Surrounds!)

B&W CM5s on stands as surround rears

1 Velodyne DD 10 (old but just recapped and new amp) will probably sell

1 Rhythemik E15HP2 sub

 

I also have 4 B&W AM-1s I’d like to install as Atmos to bring me to a 7.2.4 for Home Theater

 

System is in our Livingroom (28x19x10) and I’d say we are 60/40 HT to music

 

I recently bought a Marantz SR8015 and have a PassLabs X5 (125 watts per channel all channels driven, 25watts pure Class A) driving the main 5 speakers - AVR driving just the Surround Rears and will drive the Atmos. I am happy with how Home Theater sounds but want to improve 2 channel music

 

I have a Eversolo DMP A6 Streaming DAC - it was inexpensive and ok for now- but will ultimately might need better but am very surprised how good it sounds.

 

I am interested in what’s next for the best noticeable improvement

 

Leaning strongly towards a Tube Preamp with HT Bypass? (Backert Rhythem or, wish I could afford a VAC Signature Mk2 SE)

Also heard about the Moon 791 which actually seems cost effective (my brother has the 390)? Not sure I like the idea of Streamer, DAC and Pre Amp all in one box, but 2 dealers have said how great the SimAudio is and questioned that as I do not have a dedicated Listening Room I probably couldn’t hear much difference ( my gut doesn’t agree with this). Another dealer strongly recommended the Classe Delta Pre and Amp … as they were made for B&W 800 series.

I listen to Jazz and Acoustic Rock mostly. Love how Female vocals and acoustic strings sound now and want that imaging to improve - hence my thought to add a tube Pre and a 2 channel amp.  Seriously close on buying a Pass Labs X250.8

thx - sorry if anyone thinks this is a thread hijacking, but felt my situation is similar enough that would contribute to this conversation .

 

First of all, I’ll be buying them used. Secondly, I’m flexible on the budget.
 

I initially started with $2-3k.After experiencing buyers remorse with some the selections made in the past, years of research, etc. I’ve now stretched my budget to $10-12k. 😀😀 I don’t think I can go beyond that, but you never know. 😀

Old post but u said u want to spend 5-8k and u mentioned ARC Ref 6.  6SE   And Ref 40 ???? I don’t think u know what ur talking about. Those amps are 2/3 x more than u want to spend 

VAC preamps keep the 6922 tubes on when using Cinema Bypass.  It also outputs a balanced signal.  I'm using my Master line stage with a Theta Casablanca IVa pre/pro which works well.  

Hello,

Be careful about choosing a tube preamp for Ht bypass. When they shut off the tubes completely you will lose 10db of gain. The tubes in a preamp last a long time. So go with the brand that leaves them on even during HT bypass. 10 db is a lot for a surround processor to make up. I think $400 every 10-15 years is ok. 

The MP1 is among the top 4 of my list. What's the life of various tubes in MP1, number of tubes/ models, and how expensive they're? Does certain tubes have to be replaced in set? 

@hitsofmisses  None of the tubes are stressed so they last a long time. The linestage and output of the phono section will easily go 10,000 hours.

The 12AT7s in the phono section front end do have to be quiet, but these are the tubes nearest the rear panel; the front and middle phono tubes do not have the same noise requirement. When the front end tubes get too noisy for that service, they can run fine later in the circuit. We've seen preamps in the field for 20 years that still have good tubes in them (with the customer claiming the preamp was in constant use; whether that is true or not is a different story...).

 

FWIW, I use a C2700 for two channel and HT purposes, and am very happy with it. McIntosh also makes AV processors and the like if you want to take it a step further.

I think the prospect of not burning through tubes while watching TV/movies outweighs whatever you might lose in sound quality for watching video.  But, that’s me. 

I get that, but you can get thousands of hours out of the tubes. If you spend the same time listening to music the life is the same.

Stereophile did a survey at one of their shows in the early 2000s. It was two identical home theatre setups. One had the normal box store amplification and speakers, the other had high end stuff. People were not told what was different and were asked to gauge their experience. The room with the better equipment got better marks for picture quality! But the only difference was the sound.

Your front l&r will be a 2 channel ’front stereo system’ via an integrated amp or preamp/amp pair. Used by itself for music, OR, used BY the AVR for video.

that preamp will need HT Bypass INPUT, that is how the AVR controls the front volume along with all the other channels it amplifies.

AVR will need FRONT L&R Preouts.

Consider low bass now: from the main speakers always, or if sub(s) will be used: how you get/control/ and if always available i.e. volume controlled via AVR and for just music, how use sub(s).

I would not complicate that with tubes myself, however, you know how much heat your cabinet/area/room can handle.

c-j

I never thought about burning through tubes & how expensive it could be while video watching.

The Luxman m900u has a very useful feature: two set of input.

Connect one input to HT and the other to stereo preamp, no need to turn on the preamp while using HT, and not even need the HT Bypass function in the preamp!

I have some relevant experience with some the pre's and your amp.  I ran the Luxman M900u for a couple of years - - very nice amp, but I definitely thought it benefited from partnering with a tube preamp; otherwise it was a little too "gossamer" for my system and tastes.  When I bought the amp, I was using the PS Audio BHK preamp, but I bought the amp with the C900u.  The C900u clearly showed me that there was a good bit more to be had than the BHK was giving me in terms of musical information.  I sold the BHK and haven't look back on that.  But over the longer haul the C900u with the M900u just didn't light my fire, sounding a bit thin and "see through" (I run TAD CR-1 speakers, which do need some warming to shine right).  Then I tried an ARC Ref 40 and I found this to be a synergistic combo, bringing a "fleshier" sense to the music.  Just my experience, and YMMV.

If you're seriously thinking of using using in a combo 2-channel/HT system, you might want to consider the Backert Labs Rhumba 1.3. It has HT Bypass mode that is activated when you turn the unit off, so the tubes are not losing life while you're watching TV/Movies. There may be other pre-amps that have this feature, but I'm not aware of them.

CAT uber alles.

ARC small signal tubes  will go 3-4k hours but the 6550 is 2 k hours, or less. Small signal are about $100 a tube, ref5 has 5, the 6 more... The 6550 from ARC is around $100.

If i were you, i would get a SS Mac and IF staying HT, never look back...

Things not mentioned so far which might be good:

AudioNote
deHavilland
Herron 
Don Sachs
SupraTek

Well, it depends. For me it is Audio Research Ref... you can see my system by clicking on my ID.

You must listen to a Mac system to,be sure you want to go that route. Many people love the sound... but it really lacks detail. VAC, CJ, ARC, AtmaSphere are great sounding preamps.

Integrating a 2 channel system into a HT is typically a really bad thing for two channel. Can you avoid this and have two systems? I am fortunate enough to have separate systems and it is one of the best things about both.

 

 

@soix : I never thought about burning through tubes & how expensive it could be while video watching. 

@atmasphere : The MP1 is among the top 4 of my list. What's the life of various tubes in MP1, number of tubes/ models, and how expensive they're? Does certain tubes have to be replaced in set? 

Yup.  Totally makes sense.  But, unless you’re an extreme videophile who demands  every last detail of sound I think the prospect of not burning through tubes while watching TV/movies outweighs whatever you might lose in sound quality for watching video.  But, that’s me. 

If this is the case, I think you’d be well served to pursue a tubed pre that can deactivate the tubes when using the HT bypass.

@soix The problem you have with this approach is the ability to drive interconnect cables in such a way that the cables don't influence the system. Most of the home theatre processors I've seen lack that ability. A good preamp (if balanced, supporting AES48) can do this. So there is an argument for an active preamp, if sound quality is your goal.

 

I will eventually be integrating it into a HT setup.

If this is the case, I think you’d be well served to pursue a tubed pre that can deactivate the tubes when using the HT bypass.  I’m not 100% sure, but I think Backert, Rogue, and maybe VAC offer this feature, and are excellent preamps in their own right.  FWIW, and best of luck in your search.