I've reviewed the TAS Factory Tour and the 802 D3 details and am impressed with all improvements; and the common sense used. I also find the new styling very intelligent related to dispersion. Comments?
Bo1972 - When I went to the toilet over there I saw a black pair of B&W 800 matrix when I was taking a piss.
:^) When I go downstairs and I make a left to my older Room A and I see them inside there; They make me want to piss too....before I start listening.
Bo1972 - Monitor Audio is superior in timing and response.
Bo - for a minute put yourself in an audiophile's shoes with his own system, instead of installing systems for customers. Think about this. These B&W speakers are easily modified for timing and response. They came from the B&W factory with silver wire and WBT connectors. Highest quality crossovers - four on each speakers for each driver, built from materials that will last longer than me. They can be Quad amplified. For the crazy person the crossovers are an open design easily accessible behind each drivers back panel. This allows the person to, if not satisfied with timing or response; to easily bypass factory crossovers, and bring in a component like the Krell or Pass Lab crossovers;
tailor the crossover points for your own room nodes. You can put a SS amp/s on the bottom for the woofers and tubes on the midrange/tweeters if you want . Open access speaker design under John Bowers - RIP.
Look forward to your shootout. Consider starting a Monitor Audio thread too. Cheers
In 1999 I was visiting a distributer to listen to the Revel Studio at that time. I was looking for a new speaker, which became the 802N at the end.
When I went to the toilet overthere I saw a black pair of B&W 800 matrix when I was taking a piss. This was the first time I saw them. Mann those were my dream speakers in the 90’s.
Monitor Audio is superior in timing and response. I can garantee for 100% that the timing of the new Platinum Series II is superior to the D3 series. With the old Platinum vs 800D series it was the same.
Their new ribbon tweeter what is 8 times as big as a dome tweeter is so much more open, transparent and realistic in the high freq, that it will outperform the D3 diamond tweeter with ease. When I compared the 805D with the Platinum 100 it became clear how much opener the Pl-100 was. The stage was so much wider and deeper as well. The individual focus of instruments and voices was a lot sharper than the 805. I remember the face of the 805 owner. He was not amused.
I also did a comparison between the Pl-100 and the Dynaudio C1 ( first series) and here was the same outcome as with the 805D. Dome tweeters are not of this time anymore. They are outdated and inferior compared to the best ribbon tweeters. This person bought the C1 a few weeks before we did this shootout. His face said it all.
I even think this speaker can outperform the Dynaudio Evidence and Temptation. This is based on the superior timing and the superior new ribbon tweeter compared to the old fashion Esotar tweeter. Monitor Audio is also superior in crossovers. In all tests the Platinum had a much wider and deeper stage. And again the individual focus of instruments and voices is much sharper.
What I said many times our Statement Audio Pro measurment can become the new level in sound quality in every home.
In the past I hated subwoofers for stero use. But stealth low freqency made me think totally different. These days I can reach a higher level for stereo by using a fast subwoofer measured with our own developed S.A.P. measurement. That is why I bought the new Platinum subwoofer as well. This is a subwoofer with two times15 inch low freq. units and 2 separate amps.
The material Monitor Audio uses is lighter than the material B&W uses. But the biggest difference is how it is connected inside. The connection is more from the centre. This makes the unit much faster in response. This technique is the best I ever auditioned in audio based on timing and response.
I sold many Platinum Speakers in over 8 years of time. I never got one back. The only thing I had was with my own Platinum subwoofer. I blew it up, to be honest it was my own mistake.
The only reason why they build a new factory in China is based on the lower costs. When they still would produce the speakers in the U.K. prices would be about 40% higer. The stock of all their speakers is still in the U.K.
B&W spends a lot of money on advertising. They pay for trips to England for the shops who sell it. This week I got feedback of a person who visits many audio shops every week. He said: the people of shops discribe the speaker as technical with the lack of emotion. The people who sell it, have the same remarks.
So I understand Dave his reason why he keeps the 802D2. I want to listen them a few times more. I think they made a mistake with the looks and also with the properties. You can pay as many audio magazines as you want, but the best product will be the winner.
Listening to a wider and deeper stage with a more fysical stage of instruments and voices. And with much more resolution and decay will be prefered by almost all people. They way we create sound, I can garantee that we can outperform B&W with ease. And I will proof it.
Bo1972 - I had a look at those pl-500's. Ok lets talk gear. Some observations and a couple questions for you. You can get more info on the Monitor Audio Platinum II's here.
Does this prove that with styling what goes around comes around ?
I like the fact that the bass drivers are top and bottom on those 500's. This shows an understanding of bass wave cancellation, allowing for purer bass notes and easy room placement. Get the bass right, everything else falls into place. I have not heard better for two channel audio and room integration. Now companies including B&W jam the woofers on top of one another on the main cabinet though separated. Same principle, but not the same effect. Bass is all simple physics and money. Put woofers high and woofers low in separate cabinets costs a lot more money to do, and you start losing the WAF appeal quickly. This cuts into sales.
PL 500 II MSRP: $34,995 /pair Flagship 3-way / 4 driver tower system using four 8″ RDT II long-throw bass drivers and dual 4″ RDT II TLE-loaded midrange drivers in an M-T-M configuration with the MPD high frequency transducer.
For this kind of money I expect an all out assault speaker. No subs needed for full scale classical, rock, jazz, etc... Without hearing them I believe due to the box size, and room size, you may still need sub/s with those pl-500 speakers for realistic presentations ? What do you think ?
You told us in an earlier post that silver wiring is used and WBT's. These are silver plated and I can't see the backs. from the website
IMPROVED CROSSOVER DESIGNCrossovers have been completely re-developed using air core inductors in midrange / tweeter sections and laminated steel cores for bass sections. Custom made audiophile grade metallised polypropylene capacitors are selected to operate within a 1% tolerance for the best possible sound quality. Platinum II speakers are internally wired using Monitor Audio’s ‘Pureflow’ silver-plated OFC copper cable, selected for its audio purity and high conductivity.
Bo1972. How has your experience been with reliability and build quality as these Monitor Audio speakers are Made in China. Any problems, growing pains ? And I guess I am curious also - why all the attention on the 800 series D3's. Are they the ones taking most of your customers away ? Its like you are saying that is my reference point ? Well, everyone whether in pro audio or not, needs one and has a personal reference point.
Dear Dave, in over 5 years of time I did many shootouts with Audioquest cables against MIT cables. Audioquest did win all shootouts.
All these MIT owners doesn't use it anymore. MIT is dead in the Netherlands. The distributer had to stop because they could not earn money with it anymore.
The differences between the interconnects and loudspeakercables of Audioquest and MIT is huge these days.
MIT has done not enough research and innovation to compete anymore. And this is the hard truth. Welcome in the world of audio. Where the best and most convincing sound always will win!!
I agree with cabling suggestion...I didn't realize just what my speakers/system was capable of doing until I inserted my MIT M1.3 loom...otherworldly!!
I see they use the Nordost Odin loudspeakercable. I sold Nordost for over 9 years of time. I sols a lot Valhalla. Beside this I owned the Valhalla loudspeaker cable 11 years.
I doens't make sense when you are aware of the properties Nordost owns to use them with Classe and the new B&W 800D3 series.
The Nordost is not the best for individual focus. The always make the stage less wide and deep. And the diversity in the middle freq, is not their best pasrt either.
Audioquest would work a lot better based on their properties!
Dealers have a real challenge with multiple speakers / same room and demos. If idle speakers in a room are not connected to an amp - sound waves from another speaker can cause those idle drivers to resonate as spl’s rise. Tremendous respect for all those in the audio business.
The dealer is Audio Solutions in Indianapolis, IN. The setup was the Lumin A1 Network Player ( which I also have at home ) and the new Mark Levinson 585 Integrated Amp. I wasn't interested in buying new speakers, but I was there for two hours playing different music and talking to Victor about new development with the Lumin.
I have heard the 802D3's and they sound more precise and very resolving with good presence. There is no doubt that they would provide superior sound reproduction in a high end system. As for me, I am staying with my 802D2 speakers for a few reasons. Foremost is the looks...love my fatter all wood design with larger metal plinth. Second, the metal spikes on my pair could be used to launch a Saturn V rocket! Lastly, the D2's are just a tad more forgiving and warmer sounding with a fullness that I like.
illuminator I heard the 802 D3 speakers last week at the dealer here in town. They sounded great!
@illuminator B&W is very tough on dealers. They have sales quotas to meet or they could lose the brand. It is in the dealers interest to play music that sounds great on the speakers. Now I don’t know you, and whether you were casually listening to them, how many times you heard them. or have an actual interest to buy them. I would put a dozen songs that stir your music soul on a cd or usb stick. Old music, newer music, pure instrumentals, female voices, male voices. Mix it up. Go listen again.
If you can tell us the dealer name they may have a pic of their room setup on a website that we can share with the others here.
Classe it not bad, in our world it lacks quality as well. B&W is owner of Classe. On political choices it is used. This I can understand. It is still by far not the best student of the class. So does it add something in the world of audio? We don’t think so.
Bo, you stated this on 11-30. Then you post the above comment. Which is it? If they lack quality, there wouldn't be a deep and wide stage.
First of all Classe can create a deep and wide stage. But brands like Pass Labs are able to create more stage depth and width.
The crossovers of the 801N and 801D were not that great. There are different brands in that price range who create more stage depth and width.
I am still curious about the thoughts of the new 800D3 series.
What I said earlier, the individual focus was not that convincing. They use extreme toe-in. Here is a picture of a demo with Ken Ishiwata. When you use so much toe-in, all depth is gone.
The most 3 dimensional system I have ever heard was with a pair of Classe monoblocks and a set of B&W 801's. Bo says they both lack. Something's wrong here...
This new audiogon format does not allow me to link specific audiogon posts only pages. See the first post on this page for more info. The relevant text is shown below.
I don't usually re-read my posts. I think I might be a little worried about what I might have actually said. Sometimes the morning coffee goes to your head. There was some discussion around amplifiers. which came around to remembering that the Speaker is the Alpha over the Amplifier and that the Room is the Alpha over the Speaker.
In regards to how one chooses the type/design of Speaker first and then narrowing it down. taken from that previous page post.
IMO, IME
There are a few rules (guidelines) in audio. The rules that revolve around the speakers themselves, have a big effect on the amplifier design. For example if we put our experiences aside and, come into this as if we were new to the hobby. Consider these three questions. Consider each as a separate consideration onto itself. A sort of silo.
1) What if a person wants to reproduce full range music. What majority would not want this ? To hear all that was recorded. 2) What if a person wants good efficiency - again who doesn't really want this...no different than installing a furnace/air conditioner ? We check off the high efficiency box if we can. This also leads to lower utility bills, saving the planet, just make sense... 3) What if the person wants the reproducers "speakers" to take up a small area - un-obtrusive. Bookshelf size - Again if you could why not ? Who really wants 8 foot towers in their living room? Or those huge speakers that need to be disguised as huge sculptures in the dwelling to work - really ?
Well you can only have two of the three above. If someone doesn't believe it; run through the math and the scenarios of the 3 options. If a friend asks me today for an opinion, and I know he has not already been made biased by reviews, dealers, forums, etc... I will say take your pick of the two that most appeal to you. Then look at the one that got left out. Whichever one it is - go the opposite to it in design - and if you can accept that, you're done. Your path is clear. Go find that speaker ! All choices in between are a compromise -
The previous youtube example with the 804 and 805 demonstrate speakers that try to accomplish points 1 and 3.
So lets say with the above approach a person identifies 3 speaker candidates. I would if I was spending a small fortune on these speakers.
1) First call the speaker manufacturer direct (not the dealer) and get details. No one knows more about the speakers than the designer/manufacturer. If step one passes **** 2) Arrange to demo them in your own space. if this is not possible, 3) Demo them in the dealer space with your amp and music. Consider how close their room is to yours. 4) If you can't demo what you buy will be based on point one + friends, and other recommendations.
**** If the manufacturer representative will not give you the time of day and sends you to a dealer. Move to the next speaker. Tell the manufacturer about your room volume, listening habits, and how YOU would like to have the speakers positioned - ideally. Find out how the speakers were designed. Ask him. Does he listen to Bach or AC/DC in his dedicated room, or his living room (maybe he is a boutique maker ?) What amps is he using? There will always be 3 or 4 amps any speaker maker has at his shop. This is too much of a niche business for a manufacturer to build a speaker that only works with one amplifier type. If the amplifiers he mentions represent different designs, then you have found a speaker design that will probably work with different amps. Make sure you find out the different brands and model and if they are both tube and SS designs. If the speaker is rated 50 - 200 watts ask him how much the presentation will change with your preferred room setup with 25, 50 and 200 and 400 watts. (Both SS and Tube) If discussions go well, go to the dealer to hear the new speakers; or start searching for used speakers like this.
If he gives you the B&W story (voiced in an anechoic chamber) you know you will have your work cut out for you. Are you sure you really want this speaker? You can see what kind of room treatment is used in that youtube video. And the sound in that video may be too revealing still for some people. Further damping needed on the highs.
And also sometimes you need to read between the lines with speaker reviews as well. Here is a clear warning to an Audiophile.
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"Higher in frequency, the response trend (averaged across a 30 degrees lateral window on the tweeter axis) is basically flat, but with a slight excess of energy in the presence region and a corresponding lack of energy in the top octave. All things being equal, this will make the speaker both a little too revealing of recorded detail and somewhat fussy when it comes to the quality of source and amplification components."
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These words tell me this Speaker's studio role comes first. To let the master engineer hear everything so he can do his/her job. It is not this speaker's design/job to present nice warm musical music with every piece of music you own. The Audiophile purchasing the speaker described here will be dealing with a level of resolution, that every micro level - wire change will make a difference. Is this what you really what ? Or do you want to just lay back in your chair and listen to music. This quote btw is from the Stereophile review of the 801 Matrix. Now the funny thing is some will read that and actually say to themselves; "that sounds really cool" and be attracted to it. In the end you will drive yourself batty because what really counts most here is is the quality of the original recording file that is sent to the mastering studios. Good recordings sound great, bad ones sound bad. Some speakers (not the 800 series) are able to make even bad recordings sound tolerable.
ok lets have some more fun. I broke this up into two posts. Ptss, I try to answer your question from my experiences in the next post. Going to try to use youtube to illustrate something. In order for readers to participate here, you will need a computer with built in speakers and decent external headphones (not the kind that came with your phone) that can be plugged into the computer as well.
With the holidays approaching, lets say you are shopping at a big mall. You are walking through and hear music playing. You approach it gets louder. A nice retail Audio storefront. A dying breed ? You stand in the doorway and listen to the music that is playing.
Click on the following youtube link. No affiliation to the video.
1) Please first listen to it through your built in computer speakers. No external headphones
The reason I did this is because I have been to dealer showrooms where the music sounded just like that youtube. Speakers sound bright. There just happens to be a large tonal imbalance with my Lenovo laptop's built in speakers. They don't do bass well.
If this is what you hear in your actual room with your home speakers it could mean a number of things including too much room volume for the speakers, amplifiers that don't have the balls to deliver on the B&W bass requirements going down to 3 ohms. The fixes should all include trying to establish good tonal balance between highs, medium, lows. When it's there you will know. This can include moving the speakers closer to the front wall for bass reinforcement. But this will also collapse the soundstage depth, and will interfere with the soundstage definition. Another option is adding subwoofer/s. But this also gets more complicated. Its another discussion. Another option is to bring in more power. B&W always respond with better bass with more power. If tube amps, make sure the transformers are good quality and my experience has been the 4 ohms tap produces the best bass. With SS Class A and A/b amplifiers make sure the wattage specs double down. Some like McIntosh another type of SS design with autoformers. They will all sound different.
2) Now please listen to the same link but this time with your "external headphones plugged" into your computer. I have a pair of Denon and Grados. The sound with my headphones becomes more balanced. The music now has meat on the bones. Do you hear it ?
The quality B&W offers today cannot convince me at all. There are too many limitations.
Classe it not bad, in our world it lacks quality as well. B&W is owner of Classe. On political choices it is used. This I can understand. It is still by far not the best student of the class. So does it add something in the world of audio? We don’t think so.
I can even demo it and explain in details what is missing. This counts both for B&W and Classe. The only reason why we say these things is that we can proof them. We are only focussed on the best sound possible. So B&W has to proof they are the best. This is how audio needs to be used.
There were different B&W owners who were irritated about the negative info B&W gave on their older models during the show they gave. The week after the show, these stories were the ones people in audio were talking about. Tell me what is here to laugh about?
I will try to get a dialoge with B&W in 2016 if they are prepared for a shootout.
Audio is all about the best you can get and the truth, and not about a story on what people would like to hear!!
An anechoic chamber ("an-echoic" meaning non-reflective, non-echoing or echo-free) is a room designed to completely absorb reflections of either sound or electromagnetic waves. They are also insulated from exterior sources of noise.
What does this B&W speaker voicing strategy mean for the average Music Lover or Audiophile. Well I have been at this audio hobby consciously since I was about 13. I have yet to come across any Audiophile or Music Lover, not associated with the business in some way, that has a room that looks anything like that. Now I did reach out to B&W a few weeks ago because, well I always look to learn and I was curious about how they managed to get such low frequency numbers out of such small boxes on the new D3's. That's another discussion....if you like........
This was their response.
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Bowers & Wilkins
The trouble with measuring in real rooms, especially where bass response is concerned, is that they are all different. If you try to measure any speaker in a real room, you get all sorts of measurement deviations due to reflections and room modes. Not only that, but you get a different result if you change rooms or if you merely change the position in the same room. Anechoic conditions are chosen for measurement, as they at least define a consistent and repeatable environment. It is the job of the speaker designer to choose an anechoic curve alignment (roll-off-shape) that sounds right when the speaker is listened to in a real room and this tends to be different for each model.
Kind regards, Bowers & Wilkins
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So no new news here. We all knew this already, right ? Now Common Sense ? The speakers are designed and voiced in an Anechoic room. This is by far IMO, the biggest reason B&W 800 series are hit and miss with many audiophiles. I have owned a set of B&W speakers in my collection since the 70's. IMO - those with a stubborn British type (attitude) personality, who also have flexibility in the room in regards to speaker positioning, and damping have a chance with them long term. The other personality type - Audiophile frequent flyer - that prefers plug and play; drop them into a room maybe play with some electronics tuning and call it a day. You will never get to what they can actually do. So do they make sense for the average audiophile putting them into his shared living room with the big TV and imported glass coffee table ?
Now how about studios. Definitely - they know what to do with them. They use them like a tool. They are very popular with studios since the 801 set the standard years ago. Now here is a real problem.
Audiophile Nigel reads that his latest album which he absolutely loves was mastered at Sterling Sound in New York.
He finds out that they use 800 series. He says to himself "Man, I got to get me a pair of those". But Nigel lives in a house with his wife and two kids and his stereo in his living room. And it looks like it is going to be that way for a long time. I ask you - does it not make more sense to get speakers that were voiced under real world conditions. IMO, IME .......
Bo1972 - It doens't make sense to compare B&W with B&W, you need to compare the 800D3 series with competitors in the same price range.
In order to do proper comparisons with other competitors, one needs to learn first how to properly set up a specific brand of speaker. You need to know the history. You don't toss them into a room with a bunch of other speakers and start manipulating electronics for imaging. Your piss and vinegar attitude shows a lot of passion - fine; but it is also a little misguided imo. Your bias can be forgiven because you are in the business. You can't help yourself. But for those of us that are not connected to the business in any way (manufacturers, dealers, distributors, special relationships) your's and others biases on these forums is very evident in the posts. The fact is all these forums represent a tip of the iceberg scenario anyway. And there is no such thing as bad publicity. B&W is laughing all the way to the bank .
Show us one of your rooms with "ANY" speaker setup. or are you going to ignore this again and keep playing politician. .
I am here not to get my rights. I hope that other people will look further just as we do.
In my world each person deserves the best. We still meet new clients who spend a lot of money but still play at a very low level.
In our world inferior products do not add anything in the world of audio. But there are many. And many are still being sold. For what.........for who.......
When you can get much better results for the money, you would be a fool to buy inferior products.
A brand does not garantee you anything you need to look further.
We never say to a client you need to buy this, we only say you should listen to this.
I always say to my clients: what do you want to hear? The truth or the thing you would like to hear.
The last group people I cannot help. And believe me they are there!
I will ask B&W if they have the gutts for a shootout in the beginning of 2016. This is how audio need to be done!!
It doens't make sense to compare B&W with B&W, you need to compare the 800D3 series with competitors in the same price range.
The demo of the 802D3 was done by B&W England with Classe and was very limited. I have talkes with different people who also work in audio.
Were are the great stories of other people who auditioned them?
Where are the shootouts against other competitors?
Tell me what were the electronics used the TAS Factory tour? Because the articles I read about it they used Rotel.
Rotel ( what I sold for many years) has a full flatt stage, there is no depth. Beside this there is almost no diversity in the middle freq.
When you want to judge a speaker like the 802D3 you need to have an idea about the aspects of highend to get an idea how good it is. With Rotel the demo will be in 2D with hifi sound. It is a hifi demo.
Even in England many demos were with Rotel. This doens't make sense. It is the same when you would put a Ford engine in a Ferrari.
When audio is being presented this way, customers never will get a good perspective of a product. And where it is capable of!!
11-27-15: Ptss Honestly, Bo Bo & friends should go in a corner,---- - - and enjoy themselves.......Actually; why not start their own thread? Have fun with other; childish ignorant self centered fools who probably toilet trained very late,if ever.
@Ptss the OP of this thread. Honestly..... you sound like you are in a lot of thread pain. Even a cowboy that loves a dying horse in pain shoots it to put it out of its misery. One email to the excellent audiogon moderators solves this problem. If you choose to keep the thread open I have a question for you.
Here is your original post.
I've reviewed the TAS Factory Tour and the 802 D3 details and am impressed with all improvements; and the common sense used. I also find the new styling very intelligent related to dispersion. Comments?
I would like your opinion on why you feel these speakers are improvements, show common sense, and why they are intelligent related to dispersion. I am always looks to learn. As the OP of this thread I look forward to response. Please include past B&W experience.
That's only because a whole new group of A-Gon members are just discovering Bo. Those of us who were around and remember when he first crashed this site several years ago, know better and so will the new members. Its the same old song, and nothing has changed with this guy.
I can garantee you on thing: I am so much better in sound than I ever will be in words.
The way we work is always creating a superior level in sound than any competitor can give. That is why I love to send clients to competitors. Audio is shootouts and the freedom to compare. Believe me people will always choose the most convincing and emotional sound.
The reason why I think B&W will sooner than normal chance the series is the reaction of people I heared. I think they took too much risk with the looks. Even most of the B&W minded people prefer the older look. I know many B&W users and I asked them at the shows.
We are dealer of Stillpoints. Mann they can do things what you never can create by buying an amp, speaker or source of 100.000 dollar.
A better timing ( what stillpoints also do) create much more precision. Instruments and voices become more apparent. The space is getting bigger but the black level is getting higher as well.
You need to understand what each part in your set does, before you can create stage depth and width.
We are not even talking about stage height, this is a league on it's own. It even influences the sound when 2 voices come toghter. Beside the blending of voices you still can hear were they are at the recording.
When people of Auro3D/Dolby Atmos talk about 3D and height, I always spoil there part. And I will explain in details why we are listenign to 2D sound. After my explanation they are always quit. This is the level of audio these days. Customers get stuppid information of these people.
I give you the reason why the Monitor Audio ribbon tweeter outperforms dome tweeters.
First of all voices and instruments are sharper focussed and they are more physical apparent.
The can create easier depth and width compared to a dome tweeter.
The most fun part is that it is able to project voices and instruments even in front of the speaker. This is combined with projecting the music beside the speakers.
When you listen to speakers with dome tweeters, the voices and instruments stay more at the front line of the speakers.
I give an example: Miles Davis; Kind of Blue DSD by the Lumin S1: It brings you back to 1959.
You are there in the space of the recording. You hear the differences in heights of the recording. They were one of the first to use microphones this way.
The piano on the left side sounds more like real bur also gets a shape. The drums is fully free at the left side. It plays beside and in front of the speaker. And you hear the heights of the high hats in the space.
The ribbon tweeter can create much more space than a ribbon tweeter can. Beside this the focus is sharper. Not even for free I would want a speaker with a dome tweeter.
Audio is using the properties to the max. The ribbon tweeter gives me much more space and diversity to use.
"Mark my words!" Do we have to? There are so many. Sometimes less is more...
Bo, your enthusiasm comes across as a little preachy and dogmatic. I am happy you found a formula for putting together a sound system that you like. But, it's not like you invented fire. There are many routes that lead to the destination. Your's is but one.
"When you are able to create diversity in stage height the music comes to you differently."
I actually agree. And getting proper vibration isolation under the source components especially and hopefully under EVERYTHING will go a long way in achieving the ever expanding sphere of the recording venue, what we commonly call soundstage, including the dimension of height, do often missing in action. In fact, what's revealed eventually, after much aftermarket puttering around, is how well organized and de-interleaved everything is.
When you are able to create diversity in stage height the music comes to you differently.
It is my living and I am addicted to music, but I understood that for most people it is very difficult to create it.
Height speakers for Dolby Atmos/Auro 3D only will work when your amp/speakers both can create stage depth and width.
B&W is a big company, but this doesn't garantee them to create speakers who can give you a huge holographic stage.
I think they need new people and other materials and systems to create a speaker which can build a 3D stage. I also think that the D4 series will look differently than the D3 series look today. Mark my words!
I saw the pictures, Mannnn put them against the 800D3 series. And the B&W will look cheap.
The drivers are white (ceramic drivers with aluminium), and are totally one with the speaker. They use new leather. More smooth, like the leather B&W used for the 800D
I loved the 800D in high black with full leather.
There is only a small protection for the drivers, so you can see the full leather. The above plinth of the Platinum series was silver and is now more one with the speaker and is black.
The drivers are new and lighter and stiffer than the ones they use now. Monitor Audio developed a new way of how drivers are connected. The connection is more from the centre. This gives the best response in the market.
What it does is that you have a lot of dynamics and speed even at very low volume. This makes the response a lot faster. Monitor Audio is a head in this area compared to B&W. And this is what I don't understand why B&W has a less fast response.
The new ribbon tweeter is wider and bigger. This gives a deeper and wider stage as well. They changed and improved the crossovers. The mid freq. is even more open en natural.
Roksan uses the same tweeter in the Darius S1. Monitor Audio uses it till 100khz. Even with a 2D amp this speaker could crerate stage depth and played almost 1 metre ouside the speaker. There was no harshness at all.
B&W is using copper from Van den Hul inside their speakers. Monitor Audio uses 100% full silver and the best WBT terminals.
These days the word 3D is used by many. Dolby Atmos and Auro3D is using the words.
But....all demos were 2D. Because they use 2D amps and 2D speakers.
During a demo I explained the people of Auro3D ( Belgium) that there demo is 2D. After I explained that they agreed. This is the level of how audio is presented.
When you use speakers who's crossovers are not able to buils depth and width, you still hear that also with Dolby Atmos it is still 2D. This counts for the amps as well.
I use the word 3D, but the best highend can also let you hear the differences in heights. When I bought 2 sets of Audioquest Wel Signature xlr The stage became higher. The music was presented in a different zone.
Many people are not aware of what you can achieve with cables. These parts you cannot achieve with a more expensive amp or source.
I use blind shootouts to make people aware of how important cables are and what they do.
The biggest limitation of audio is that over 95% of the products at audio speciality shops is not worth the money. For cables the same story.
Are we attempting to have every scale on earth produce the 160lbs result or simply your bathroom scale? I'm quite sure I can give you one solution on increasing the number of Saturdays you experience up to seven (sorry, this program is either one or seven so you have to choose), but you'll require very regular scotch deliveries. You can also safely assume that while the total number of Saturdays is far greater, it is by no means infinite and is entirely based on the genetic qualities of your liver function.
As for moving through your home at the speed of light, I'm afraid this will interfere with our general existence, unless you move to another solar system. Please don't measure your weight during those high velocity moments as it will greatly effect the accuracy of your weight.
I'm aiming for 6D sound in my room...it has to have width, height, depth, it has to warp time so I have two Saturdays every week, it has to further the laws of quantum mathematics and allow me to move through my house at the speed of light, and it has to mitigate earth's gravitational effect so that my scale says I only weigh 160 pounds. 3D sound is so 1996.
I'm now going to hijack the thread and post 300 times about 6D sound. Then I'll tell you about my new 6D Sound Generator. Which you'll all want to buy. I can't wait.
we test and audition many new ptoducts to find out which properties they own. Our only focus is on products which can create a deep and wide stage. All products which are 2 dimensional ( in audio over 95% is)we will never sell.
I said; when I need to go back to 2 Dimensional sound I stop with audio directly and I will sell cars!
This year we also did a lot of reseach in electricity ans smog. Mann you can create a much higher level when you use these tools to the max. These days we use our own wires ( and again by testing many) for electricity. We use fuses and we use Cylindric Fuse Cartridges as well.
We use different tools against smog ( computers, phones, data what goes through the air)
We use different professional lasers and different digital levelers. We use them for speaker placement and even for measuring the room.
I think our own developed measurement Statement Audio Pro can become a new tool to create a much higher level in sound from mid level till highend.
For us it is important that many people will benefit from it. The quality in stereo and multi channel will go to a new level. This level will make music and multi channel much more addictive and exciting.
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