Axpona reviewers perceptions and reality


Just read the Absolute Sounds' review of speakers $20k and many of  the speakers and systems singled out by Mr. Vallin were in our opinion were mostly subpar and many of these systems were extremely expensive to the tune of $500k and above price levels. 

Many critics love the big Von Schweikert/Vac rooms we felt that in both recent shows: Cap and at Axpona these rooms were way too massive for even these large and expensive speakers and these systems did not have the room lock effect where the speakers are actually presurizing the room and therefore producing the realistic size and scope of a live performance.

Other disappointments that critics liked

The High Water Sound room was just dismbodied, soft sounding and utterly uninvolving,.

The CH Precision room not that good especially for the insane price tag of $500k for this room at least.

The YG acoustics/Audionet was an extremely expensive rig that failed to impress.

The Hanawi  speakers first sounded great on an old recording totally disapeared and then sounded aweful on a modern record dead, no dynamics, limited top end no bottom.

We do agree that the YG Linenberg setup was very good and way less expensive then some of the other rigs.

Both Magico systems were horrible, the gigantic Magico dual sub system was impressive in the way it filled the space with scale and  image size and bass output,  but was lifeless and dead sounding, and the CH Precison Magico setup was also boring and uninvolving with an insane cost of probably another $500k level room.

We also agree that the Wilson/Arc room was magical

We also thought the MBL's sounded very good

We also thought the Avante Garde room was also extremely good. 

The point is Mr. Vallin hailed many systems as being best in show that in our opinion didn't deliver the goods at all

The Piega room was not anything special, the German Physics again not bad not that good either, most omni's don't sound right to us,. the Eikons were good for an all in one and the Haniwa's were just aweful other than a 1950's record they were playing which sounded great.

Best Sound of Show (price notwithstanding): This is a tough one, given that most of the contenders competed on a fairly even footing. So I’m going to declare a tie among the Stenheim Alumine Five, (We didnt hear these no comment)

the YG Hailey 2.2,   the MBL 101 E, the Goebel Divin Noblesse, the Magico M2, the Magico M6, the Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD, the German Physiks Borderlands, and the Piega Coax 711.

Best Sound of Show (for the money): I didn’t get to hear the new $695 Maggies (that’s how busy I was), which reputedly were terrific, but in my category the Eikon and the Haniwa were pretty darn appealing.


Our best in show for expensive speakers and systems was very, different then Mr. Vallen's just currious what others tought of his listings:


Our best in show no particular order

Wilson/ARC

Gryphon Room

T+A Solitare 

Vimberg (best bang for the buck reference speaker at show at $36k sounded amazing)

MBL

Grande Utopia EM/Naim Statement Our pick for best in show 

Avante Garde


Worst in show for very expensive setups


Both Magico rooms

YG/Audionet

Piega/Air Tight


What do you guys think of our list and comments on Mr. Vallens opinions.


Dave and Troy

Audio Doctor NJ



128x128audiotroy

avanti1960

I believe I saw your similar comment on the Stereophile site.

I generally agree with the response you received from Stereophile.

Many readers take Stereophile reviewers opinions to have some weight and influence (in fact, obviously they have influence - great reviews can make or break a company's product).

It makes sense to me that a reviewer would therefore be wise to understand the influence they wield, and act wisely and cautiously in doing so.

If a company is introducing a new speaker or whatever, and simply from hearing it briefly at a show a stereophile reviewer utterly pans it, that can have very serious effects on the future of that product or company.

Given how difficult it can be to work within show conditions - many hotel rooms are just HORRIBLE for acoustics - they wouldn't be doing a "favor" to anyone by panning a product based on such an encounter.That actually isn't what a responsible person would do.

If a set up seems to sound bad in a hotel room, there's every chance it's due to the challenges of setting up for a show (which most of us have no experience with...no doubt even more of a challenge than we imagine all things considered).   So it makes sense to withhold some judgement.

But if a system produces GOOD sound at a show, well, hey that's worth commenting on.  Why not?  It's not like the reverse where a decent speaker can be made to sound bad under bad conditions.  A speaker generally isn't going to be made to sound "great" under bad conditions, so it makes sense to report "this system sounded excellent."

All that said, I do find that Jason S of stereophile tends to hold the least punches and seems to "tell it like he hears it," pointing out aspects of the sound he liked, or didn't quite like.  Though he is careful to qualify the tentative nature, could-be-due-to-any-number-of-show-condition-factors, of his experience.





Would love to hear your comments on the Salk room (assuming you heard it). I read their room got a award from Positive Feedback.
Dave, Troy......., whatever. I find it hard to believe both of them would have such poor grammar skills (then and than are NOT interchangeable) and inattention to detail. I say it is one person, and awfully egotisical to use "we" EVERY single time. That’s just creepy.......


Oz


Everyone does hear differently but if you are in this hobby you should be able to tell a dud from a gem regardless of your preferences.  Same for professional reviewers.  Stereophile was overtly polite in their comments and simply were not being objective or critical where they should have been.  Business and political objectives ruled the day and as such they failed the audiophile public.   At least The Absolute Sound had the decency to just list the equipment they listened to without making obligatory comments.   
I would never trust a reviewer whose system is totally comprised of long term loaned equipment!
You might have missed the best Magico room. The new Classe electronics driving the S5 2 I believe. Great room. Eikons were great! Your Personas were great. Atohm speakers were the best I heard at a medium price point. I had never heard of them. Kii was excellent. So many good rooms. Salk....   
So then who constantly posts here on A-Gon?

Dave or Troy, or both of you.  Sure reads as it is the same person....
Well, whaddya expect? They come to the show with new electronics, new speakers, new cables. They best anyone ever did I saw was play music all night the first two nights and useca burn in device on cables. I’ve been calling for static displays at shows for years. What a waste of time.
I attended a T.H.E. Show in 'Vegas years ago. Wilson had a massive room at, what is now, the Hooters hotel. Day-1: Thin, bright, stringy sound -really bad. Day-2: Not as bad as day-1 but still sub-par. Day-3: Hallelujah! Sweet, pure, extremely REALISTIC music pouring out of those big Wilsons! The better the system, the longer it takes to warm up and settle in. Maybe exhibitors should arrive a week early so their systems sound good on show days. No? I didn't think so...
Sorry Folkfreak not being impolite will write his name correctly  from now on.

Where you at the show?
Individual percerptions are individual reality. Everyone hears a bit different. Some even hear voices that aren't there.

The reality is that your opinion is about as valid as that of any other who walked the rooms of Axpona.  
By the way -- it's Jonathan Valin .. not "Vallin", not "Vallen"

You know, politeness, attention to detail ...
Trudat, this post was about the reviewer in question his opinions and how they differ from ours, and perhaps many others who heard the same systems at the show and came up with very different opinions.

We are wondering how many people agree with Mr. Vallen? In our opinion he is way off with most of his pronoucements about which rooms really sounded good.

EBM didn’t hear the A3 or if we did they didn’t stand out which room was using the A3?

The 2 big Magico demos with Magico in one and the other by F1 audio neither system sounded that good especially for the gigantic price tag, the CH Precision  Room was good sounding, not great either  but not $500k plus good enough to say sure we would purchase that setup if we were going to spend that kind of money.

We never said the Persona 3F and Anthem setup was anything other than amazing for both the sound produced and the price the combination of electronics plus louspeakers were $14,500.00 and that little system was producing a much more magical sound than many systems that cost tens of thousands of dollars.

What we said is with a few changes we could have made that system so much better, the choice of server and cabling is not what we would have used, the AQ cables tend to be clean, we did a demo of the current Water, Wind, series vs the comparable priced Wireworld series 7 which is not as good as the new series 8 and the Wireworld cabling was warmer and more full bodied sounding with an equal amount of resolution.

The Aurender servers are very good sounding but the addition of an Innous server and upconverting to 384k or above can produce a bit more air and clarity with the Anthem STR, also we would have added Isoacoustics Ghia footers as well, and different power conditioning, all of these changes would have made that little setup sound signfigantly better.

Last point us is Dave the owner, and Troy our part time help, friend, and additional set of ears.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
There were 8 rooms with MAGICO the M3s and the M2s were sounding great the A3s sounded good as well.Many people love to bad rap MAGICO thats why they sold over 750 pairs of A3s people love that sterile sound!!
Didn’t you already give us your expert commentary on Axpona in both a thread you started, as well as just about any other that someone commented in?

Heck, you posted so many times you changed your opinion on the Persona 3f room and went from a shred of honesty in saying it was mediocre due to set-up to having it as one of your better rooms by the time you posted on it several times.

Also, when you refer to "us"... is that you and someone you attended with, or "us" as in me and my giant all-knowing audio ego?

It seems you love to use "us" and "we" to give the illusion that it’s not simply you, or "I" or "mine" to globalize your own heavily biased opinion.

That said, didn’t make the show this year. But - I do agree with you on Magico. Overrated, sterile boring speakers.

But a good omipolar, set-up in a good room, awfully fun.