Audioquest vs. Others

For anyone having the Audioquest DBS on their cables highly recommend changing the batteries on any cable that is a couple years old. I changed mine even though the the light still came on and there is an improvement but after 24hrs a noticeable improvement and it keeps improving over the next 10 days.

Batteries cost next to nothing, the older dbs pack takes a different size then the newer ones so make sure if you have multiple dbs packs you check so you don't buy too many of the wrong size and have to go back to the store again.

Also check with Audioquest on upgrade to higher voltage DBS pack

Vandersteen amplifiers have 128 v DBS built in. Bill Low and Richard Vandersteen share the DBS patent and both believe more voltage is better...

@stevenday thanks also, sounds like you did the smart thing and listened to music on your system, which sounds like a bunch of very fine components- certainly there is some Vandersteen/ AQ bias, momentum, synergy. The two designers are friends, collaborating and sharing at least one patent and many Vandy dealers carry AQ and other brands. My Ref system is all AQ wire, but your post certainly has me interested in listening to other wire, easy since I need a meter or less, right now it is WEL. I assume Synergistic terminated your wire in Vandy size spades?
my Treo system is Kimber and Nordost, my vintage system is a mix of fun stuff when copper ruled!!!

have fun

tomic601 - Yes, SR terminated the speaker end in smaller spades for Vandersteen.  I expected to end up with AQ based on their classic pairing with Vandersteen.  Definitely worth considering SR for a future audition.  

To tecknik.Do you perceive an improvement after 24 hours of use or after 24 hours of installing it?I have Aq volcano but I I dont perceive an improvement after 2 hours of listening.I was using Dbs with the old battery during 10 years.

Best to check the voltage of the batteries using a multi-meter before replacing them all.  In many cases, you may find one of the batteries depleted while the others are in 10-11 volt range.  

I have always been skeptical of cables.... have had a number of cables with "networks" and for a long time I thought they were ok. That was until I had a pair go bad.   I replaced a pair of MIT Terminator 2 rca with Audioquest Mackenzie.  The MIT sounded dull and lifeless compared, it almost seemed like the were rolling tje high freq off.  Then I picked up a like brand new pair of AQ Water rca and put those between the amp and preamp.  I don't know if I would pay $600 new but for $200 they were a steal.... maybe I would, they are that good.  I think these approach the point of diminishing returns in my system

Hi @stevenday 

Some nice Ayre gear you have, although I don’t understand why you have not upgraded to QX-5 Twenty from your Codex 😂🤭. I have had both, and they are not even close. 

Also, I agree that Synergistic Research is great, especially with Ayre. IMO though, there is a significant jump in SQ if you ever upgrade your speaker cables to Euphoria (Level 3 Atmosphere X). Try, and you will thank me later. Been there, done that

Thanks for the advice thyname.  I'm sure that the QX-5 is better than the Codex (although fed from an opticalRendu, using Roon with oversampling, the Codex sounds very nice).  I am looking for a good deal on a QX-5 now.

I just bought some new SR power cables.  I seem to be falling down the SR rabbit hole.  

I wouldn't mind trying stuff like the AQ Earth and Oak, but I wish they came with gold plugs (not silver). Might be too bright in my Rotel/B&W system.

@dustsailor, the plugs are pure copper coated with silver.  From my experience it does not color the sound either direction.  Neither the Earth or Oak have any hint of brightness.  I would be surprised if you would hear brightness even with their higher end pure silver cables (Fire upwards).  I have Fire and WELs, and the Fires can actually be a tad warm, whereas the WELs are transparent, generally true to the components.

in my humble opinion the AQ silver cables are phenomenal. i’d buy used even back to niagara which will be better in every way than any of their copper cables. although cable models by all companies tend to change a lot i can’t imagine that true ‘breakthroughs’ exist as advertised. good is good and AQ silver interconnects are damn good. 

My Audioquest King Cobra outperformed the Van Den Hul Orchid when it came to tonality and overall listenability.

The VDH was softer sounding, a bit grainy...the sound was more mushed together. The AQ is a bit more 3-D sounding with better space between instruments.

I know this is relatively old and dead thread, but having come across this while researching, I felt compelled to add my few cents.

Like others here, I started with Audioquest early on (1993). At present I have all manner of Audioquest products in my various audio systems. However, lately, I have been replacing them with other brands, like Kimber Kable, Shunyata Research and Synergistic Research.  Why?  For some of the same reasons that have been presented in this thread.

Although, for me, Audioquest has essentially broken their promise of, "Do no harm." I discovered their formula by purchasing a series of their cables from the entry level to the top and determined what changed in the audio vs what they changed in the cable. 

It works like this.  They have their R&D department develop the most awesome and spectacular cable, ever; using the best conductors and the best geometries as well as all their best available tech.  THEN...the same department tries to find ways to *BREAK* that cable in order to make cheaper price points. So, if you want the best possible sound from Audioquest, you have to purchase their top-most end product.  Everything else will be a broken version of it.

Yes, all other companies do something similar, but I find Kimber, Shunyata and Synergistic don't provide you with a broken cable at their lower ends. They tend to give you a version of their best.

Let me give you an example.

AUDIOQUEST BRIDGE FALLS SERIES:

I bought the Sydney, the Victoria and the Yosemite.

The Sydney was a good cable. It uses their best copper, PSC+.  It uses their top-level geometry.  So, what did they break? 

1) The insulator for the dielectric is spray-foam Polyethylene. It does its job by absorbing high frequency information...including the audible range. So fine details are absorbed and missing from your music.

2) The connector is made from what they call, "Purple Copper."  This is copper mixed with sulfur. Sulfur is *NOT* a good conductor of electricity.  Who cares that they coated it in silver.  They purposely damaged this cable's ability to transfer a clean analog signal. They did harm.

Next up is the Victoria. This is a much better cable.  Cleaner high frequencies and good bass resolution. They added the DBS system* (*more on this later); an electric signal that constantly runs through the cable, charging the dielectric and add more shielding against RF signals. They changed the connector to "Red Copper" (so...just copper) with silver plating. It still uses AQ's best conductor PSC+ and their best geometry, so...what did they break?

1) The insulator for the dielectric is still spray-foam Polyethylene.

*now, in regards to the DBS system. Charging the dielectric and keeping it charged basically "breaks-in" the cable and keeps it that way.  Once a system is turned off or the cable is unplugged, the dielectric field begins to decay.  Then the next time you turn the system on or plug back in the cable, the current has to re-establish the dielectric field.  The DBS system ensures that it does not decay once it is established. So, yeah, you still have to break in an AQ cable that uses the DBS system.  It's just the break in lasts much longer. So, that being the case, why did AQ need to downgrade Sydney's connector to "Purple Copper" seeing as how it doesn't have the DBS system?  Because, if they had used "Red Copper" connectors, then the Sydney cable would eventually equal the performance of the Victoria cable overtime as the dielectric field becomes more established.  Can't have that! ;)

Finally, we have the Yosemite. It uses their best conductor (PSC+), their best geometry, it has the "Red Copper" silver plated connectors, it has the DBS system.  So...what did they change?

1) They added FEP insulation as the dielectric.

FEP does not absorb frequency and it blocks the escape of any frequency as well as blocks entrance of any other frequency. It can withstand heat, etc. High frequency information, such as fine details in music are not just audible, but are much louder and are given importance in the sound stage. Attack and decay of notes are far more expansive and have far more depth. Think of a piano note that decays into the attack of the next piano note.  The distinctive reverb of the metal string vibrating within a metal and wooden chassis. The sound of the piano player clicking the pedals and hearing the reverb dampener clamp down on the strings.  That kind of detail awaits...for an aggressive amount of money.

Audioquest only adds FEP to their top-most cables, ensuring that if you want the best possible sound, you *WILL* have pay through the nose to get it because FEP won't be used in any lower range product.

Now, that leads us into other manufacturers.  Many give you FEP and even all silver conductors at 1/3 the cost of AQ and they will far outperform AQ. I will give you another example.

KIMBER KABLE POWER KORDS.

I bought the Ascent and Palladian version of their power cable, as there are only three.

Basically, Kimber uses the exact same power cord for ALL THREE MODELS!!! The same conductors and the same dielectrics. In the lower model, they use a low end connector.  The mid-range uses Wattgate's high end connectors. The Palladian uses both the Wattgate high end connectors and then they add some kind of tech that deals with Standing Wave Ratios.  I honestly have no idea what goes on in that 12 inch brick.  Whatever it does, it is worth $1000 and will bring out the most intricate details in your music as well as providing a holographic sound-stage and more life-like vocals.

The point being, they believe so strongly in their wire geometry that you are given it in the low end and their top-most cable. Audioquest won't dare give you that! I have used Audioquest's X, Y and Z power cables and I have to say, they aren't horrible, but they were absolutely blown away by Kimber Kable for not much more money. To get even close to Kimber, you'd have to spend 3 times the amount in Audioquest.

At present, I am still using Audioquest speaker cable (Rocket 44s) for my home theater speakers, they are perfectly adequate. However, for my reference system, I am looking to replace the Audioquest Yosemite for Synergistic Research's Foundation cable.  I will also replace my custom made Audioquest CV-4 connecting the powered speaker to its passive speaker with SR's foundation; making a full loom. I am using SR's Foundation from the powered speaker to the powered sub. I am also replacing Audioquest's PowerQuest 3 with Shunyata's new Venom V16 Power Distributor.

I learned that having a mix of different manufacturers through your system helps to balance out "house sounds." I used to have a FULL Audioquest loom on my reference system, from their NRG Edison socket, to the Powerquest 3 to their Z and Y power cables, to their Dragonfly Cobalt DAC, the Yosemite and the CV-4.  I will keep the NRG Edison socket and the Dragonfly Cobalt...but all other Audioquest will make a hasty exit :).

Anyway...sorry for my first post being a long rant.  However, I want it on record for future lurkers. ;)

No reason to be sorry at all. This is an outstanding and very informative post. Thank you for sharing. You helped me tremendously, and I hope you helped a few others as well

i think if your mentality is an inline 4 is a broken V8 and that things like silver, dbs , etc are “ free “ then you are correct. I think expecting a usb stick to perform well in a reference system is a great leap…

I certainly like the AQ cables in my systems, but i have others Nordost and Kimber are also well represented.

Having said all that, IMO AQ could streamline things with fewer offerings….

Interesting comments about cables being purposefully broken. (PC word for sabotaged) I never thought of it before, but it does make sense and quite believable. I will keep that in mind henceforth.

@tomic601

To use your analogy, I think broken is more like the V8 with 4 plugs pulled sold as the 4 banger. I can see why a company would do that - you want a lower priced cable to pull new customers, but it mustn’t be so good that they don’t upgrade to the more expensive one. Cost wise, breaking your top of range table to make a lower model saves you a bundle in research costs, and you can "tune" the gap in performance to give folks a nice bump each time they invest more. Not too much, not to little. Reward your customers just enough to keep them wanting to take that next step. You reel them in all the way to the top.

Borderline immoral, but smart. Brilliant actually.

yes indeed, silver is so much cheaper than copper…

I would also consider Kimber in the same price ranges. Their better interconnects are really good.

yes indeed, silver is so much cheaper than copper…

Price is determined by supply and demand. The willingness of what the target market is willing to pay and the estimated sales numbers. Companies put a lot of thought in pricing the models in their range. Companies will sell a product at a loss as long as they cover operating costs and the sale results in an advantage over the longer term. 

Economics 101

Many companies have products that double in price as you go up in the range. It is an impossibility that production costs would double up like that. 

Get Tara Labs NOW!!

Looks like most here jumped on the “I hate Audioquest” bandwagon.  No company would purposely make “Broken” cables.  You guys sound like the anti Vaxxers conspiracy crowd.  Really?

AudioQuest makes decent cables, they started losing my interest when it became price prohibitive and also technically impossible to get their best cables.  Technically impossible due to the fact that if don't have bi-wire capable speakers then you won't get the best sound out their high end cables.

Switched to Ansuz and couldn't be happier.

@stereo5
I don’t hate Audioquest. I am allowed to be disappointed in what they have later come to offer.

I mean...let me rattle off the list of products I have from Audioquest:

Audioquest Slate speaker cable.
Audioquest Rocket 44 speaker cable x 2
Audioquest CV-4 speaker cable
Audioquest Type-4 speaker cable
Audioquest Boxer Subwoofer cable x 2
Audioquest Mocha HDMI cable
Audioquest Cinnamon HDMI x 2
Audioquest Carbon HDMI x 2
Audioquest NRG Edison x 2
Audioquest NRG X2 x 2
Audioquest NRG Y2 x 2
Audioquest NRG Y3
Audioquest NRG Z2
Audioquest NRG Z3
Audioquest Dragonfly Red
Audioquest Dragonfly Cobalt
Audioquest FMJ Jitterbug x 2
Audioquest Jitterbug
Audioquest Nighthawk
Audioquest Nightowl
Audioquest Nightbird cable
Audioquest Powerquest 2
Audioquest Powerquest 3 x 2
Audioquest Sydney
Audioquest Victoria
Audioquest Yosemite
Audioquest Ruby X3
Audioquest Optilink 4 fiber optic cable
Audioquest S2 S-VHS cable
Audioquest S4 S-VHS cable
Audioquest YIQ 2 Component cables

So....I feel like I can say, with some authority, that I might have some experience with Audioquest. ;)

@guakus,


You weren’t singled out by me and you don’t need to convince me that you own Audioquest cables. My beef is the blanket statement made here by someone, not you, that Audioquest purposely makes broken cables to lure you into the more expensive ones.  Like many, I started with Audioquest cables and in my case were the Indigo Blue speaker cables.  I had them for years and don’t remember why I unloaded them as I kind of wish I had kept them. 

Audioquest is a quality brand cable, like them or not and they are probably as good as any of the other brands out there.  It all boils down to personal taste and system synergy. 

You do for sure ;-) sort of the ideal customer. I would suggest sending that list to Bill Low and asking for a chat. As an aside, the Jitterbug is an amazing bit of gear. One famous factory automation company i worked with on a $100 m project bought them by the gross, jitter not welcome in a network of machine controllers…

For the junior economists out there, yes production cost in a luxury good rarely sets price, ignore it at some peril.

@stereo5 actually he did make that comment….

@tomic601


oops! My bad, I was too lazy to re-read the entire post. Thanks for setting me straight. To the OP, that is quite the libel statement you made. When to talk to Audioquest, make sure you tell them of your accusation. 

@stereo5

I did make the statement that Audioquest breaks cables. Seriously, who decides to mix sulfur with copper and think, "yeah, this is going to sound amazing." Especially when you don't see "Purple Copper" being used in any of their top tier products. For example, the difference between Suregrip 500 series and 1000 series, besides $80-$90?  One uses "Purple Copper" (sulfur + copper) and the other uses "Red Copper" (or, just plain copper).

I am all for creating a diverse and affordable range of products, but not when it means using materials, that by their design, will dull the sound quality.

Look at many of Audioquest's competitors. How many of them boast about using high purity, high conductivity OFHC or some other rendition of "pure copper" throughout their entire product line? What does Audioquest  use? Long Grain Copper, Perfect Surface Copper and Perfect Surface Copper Plus.  Which translates into: Not-so-conductive copper, Not-so-conductive copper with a polished surface and pure high conductivity copper with a polished surface.

Again, I don't hate Audioquest, but I am disappointed in their current line up. In my opinion, they have sacrificed too much quality in order to mass produce for a more common market place. You can find Audioquest at Best Buy, Nebraska Furniture Mart and other common stores.

Why does this concern me?  Because it offers more fodder for the "snake oil" argument. It's no wonder the nay-sayers pick on Audioquest, when they test their low to middle tier products and don't hear a drastic difference. (Notice that none of those nay-sayers test their $9000 speaker cables, interconnects or power cables.) 

Anyway, I am happy to take the heat as I have not only invested in Audioquest  for decades; they took thousands of my dollars and time, but have decades of experience with their product line.

i really do think you should chat w Bill Low - i ran a billion $ business and walked the manufacturing floor every day across multiple shifts so i could get unfiltered inputs…. Could be your conversation sets them on a new course, perhaps w open mind you will learn more.

Your gushing about Kimber power doesn’t seem to translate into the Kimber IC business, i count at least  4 different dialectric materials, cotton at the high end…..

Finally, i  admit to having mostly high end AQ wires. I takes 8 hours of labor at Vandersteen to build up 4 x 1 m speaker cables on AQ silver wire. Probably not available at Nebraska tractor supply. I do have a half meter set of Coral in my mobile recording rack patch bay, they sound lovely…

Certainly my wish for you is great sound, enjoy the music

@tomic601
I doubt Bill wants to hear any more criticism about his products. ;)  I am still displeased that he ended his Nighthawk line; I think they had a great product that was more than worth of continued development. I have called AQ many times and have gotten good advice throughout the years. I only recently became disillusioned, but again, I doubt they want to hear from me or that my opinion will matter. I even asked if they could custom make a power cable in their Wind Series with a C7 connection.  Nope.  They refuse to make a high quality C5 or C7 connectors.  This is when I found Kimber and Shunyata.  They were willing to make high quality C7 and C5 connector power cables.  Once I acquired those and saw/heard how they blew away Audioquest, I suppose I was hooked.


Honestly, I almost got a Kimber IC in their select line.  I wanted to replace the AQ Yosemite with their particular braid system in silver, but later went with Synergistic Research for both cost reasons and the performance the RCA foundation had on my subwoofer.

I wish there were more product vs product comparisons out there in order to make more informed decisions, but I cannot know if there is anything better unless I am willing to try it.  I was going to upgrade to AQ's Angel cable, since there are numerous reviews of that cable (but not the Yosemite.) I do wonder how the SR Foundation 3.5 mini to RCA would stack up against the AQ Angel.  The Angel is $1200 for 1m and SR Foundation was $834 for 1.5m. I have discovered cost isn't always the best factor in determining quality. So, in my situation, it will be SR Foundation versus AQ Yosemite.

At Nebraska Furniture Mart, they have a premium sound room that is 100% wired up with AQ Dragon power cables, the Niagra 7000, and William Tell ZERO speaker cables. Of course those products aren't in-store, they are special order...but at least you can hear what an entire high-end AQ loom sounds like (after about $50,000+).

Just wanted to say I recently purchased Audioquest Yosemite RCA's. My system is budget high-end, imho. Bass is ever so slightly more forward but extremely clean, bass riffs previously unheard to this degree of accuracy. Midrange and treble are also equally pristine. Great timbral accuracy. Very good micro detailing and black background which makes imaging excel. Hearing midrange textures and nuances I'm unfamiliar with. Really good cables, imho. I have not compared to other expensive cables, only cheaper Audioquest stuff and no name cheapo stuff.

 

Someone previously mentioned that you can get FEP insulation for much cheaper from companies other than Audioquest. I've seen teflon dielectrics, but Teflon has come out to be a nasty product that breaks down and leeches into everything, so not safe, imho. I have yet to see another high end cable manufacturer claim FEP insulation. Can anyone direct me? 

@khbaur330162 Yes, Nordost is one, i am sure many others. I keep a set of Blue Heaven interconnects along w AQ wire in my setup box. Blue is FEP.

glad to hear your wire upgrade went well.

Jim