Well KEF literature on the product or Uni-Q certainly makes little or no explicit claim regarding coherency and the crossover is not simple. But the Uni-q is essentially a point source driver so there is that.
I guess its reviews where I’ve read reviewers refer to the sound as coherent and on the grand scale of things overall I would agree.
Pretty sure I’ve read Ohm uses a very simple crossover. You might have to ask them to find out for sure. No doubt the product is advertised as coherent and that is how it sounds, and that unique design is what makes them the hardest to replace for me of any I have owned.
I suppose technically a port works more away from absolute perfect coherence than towards it but do those low frequencies matter as much when it comes to a coherent sound? To some extent I would think so. Then again the KEFs come with port plugs so you can easily take those rear ports mostly out of the equation if preferred.
All design aspects contribute to the end result. Some do that better than others when it comes to top to bottom overall coherency.
I think I know a coherent speaker when I hear it...but who knows? I’m confident some are way more coherent sounding overall than others. I do know I tend to prefer those that clearly have some strong elements of overall coherency on their side as opposed to the opposite.
I had Triangle Titus monitors for years that I seem to recall used a simple 1st order crossover and were advertised as coherent overall. I would agree. HEy but those were FRONT ported!
I had Dynaudio Contour monitors the same time as the Triangles. Very nice in many ways of their own but not particularly coherent sounding in any special way at least to my ears.
^Your points regarding ports are well taken. Yes, I believe that Ohm uses a simple 1st order cross-over to the tweeter which is something of a prerequisite, but there’s more to it. The coincident drivers certainly have some advantages, especially for driver integration at the listening position. With the right profile they can also mitigate lobing effects. Coherence can be confirmed with an appropriate step response.
I owned a set of the original Ohm Fs and now have a set of Ohm 1000s (though with a recent move that has a larger listening room, I may upgrade to one of the larger models.)
A couple of observations. The inside of the cans that cover the down-facing driver of the new Ohms is intentionally padded at certain spots to reduce output to the outside rear. This makes them easier to place in a room. They would be true omnis but for that -- this feature improves their performance in a typical home environment. Also, the tweeter crossover is quite high -- I believe 8KHz or 9 KHz. This is well above the fundementals of most, if not all, acoustic instruments, so you are dealing in a frequency range where moving your head just a few inches at the listening position would affect any theoretical coherency of any pair of stereo speakers.
In summary, I really enjoyed my original Fs and equally enjoy the current models. Both offer superb, lifelike sound with good recordings, but the new models are a lot easier to setup, drive and enjoy than the originals.
No. The original Ohm Fs were enjoyable, given plenty of power. Owned a pair for 3 years. The Ohms for the last 20+ years sound muddy, diffuse, two-dimensional, and bland. LOW mid-fi at BEST.
Just shows that opinions are a dime a dozen in this hobby. I also owned a set of the original Ohm Fs in the mid-1970s. While I enjoyed them immensely, I find my current Ohm 1000s equally enjoyable (and easier to deal with.)
The key is for each person to find what works for them.
The Ohms for the last 20+ years sound muddy, diffuse, two-dimensional, and bland.
Not in my experience. In fact, I’ve experienced the polar opposite with the MicroWalsh Talls I purchased in 2004.
No reason to fear Class D. Good ones sound great these days and Ohms love it.
This. I loved them with my old PS Audio Trio amp (100/200 wpc, B&O ICE) and recently paired them with a Marantz HD-AMP1. Given the low wattage of this integrated (35/70 wpc, Hypex UcD ) I didn’t expect much and boy, was I wrong. Just fantastic. I would love to hear them with newer class D one day but, for now, I’m pretty happy where I’m at.
My ohm Walsh 2000’s come tomorrow! Been waiting since December! Very excited, hope the sound as good as some say. Driving with a moon i250. We’ll see if that’s enough juice.
@riftaf4u based on published specs that amp should drive them very well up to at least modest high volume. I’d expect good results. I have similar power Bel Canto c5i (60w/ch) driving older 100s and that does very well in a large open family room /kitchen area.
Congrats on your 2000s! I hope you enjoy them as much as I enjoy my Ohms.
One thing to remember about power is that the relationship between acoustic volume in a room and amp power is logarithmic. Every 3 dB increase in volume requires double the power. That means that one can generally get a fairly good volume level with reasonable amounts of power, but beyond that, power needs jump very rapidly.
I always recommend that people get an inexpensive sound level meter so they can speak accurately about their listening level. Without that, one person's "medium" volume is headbanging loud for someone else.
Unless you have a very large room, or listen past the mid 90 dB level (C weighted) I suspect you'll be fine.
I have said it on other threads, but it bears repeating: The current Ohm lines are capable of very refined sound and will respond well to upstream improvements. My 2000s, purchased new in 2009 have never sounded better. I have upgraded most of my gear and wires, and the improvements have been apparent to varying degrees. I feed them 500 watts/channel of Class D power from Arion Audio, and each is crossed over, first order, to a Vandersteen 2Wq sub with MHP-5 crossover. I have heard many systems with all sorts of speakers, some priced at multiples of my Ohms. I love listening to music as a destination activity, and only life's obligations and required sleep bring my sessions to a close. Warmth with appropriate amounts of detail and transient information, a phenomenal soundstage and image resolution, make, for me, speakers that may well be my last. Of course, some speakers I have heard outclassed my Ohms, but nothing that I have heard under $12k has made me want to dump the Ohms. Not bad for $2800 the pair!
It bears repeating that ANY speaker will have its proponents and detractors, no matter how fancy, expensive or exotic. Pick a brand -- any brand -- Magico, Wilson, Moon, Wisdom and so on, and you'll find people who don't like their sound or even think they are an outright rip-off.
The only thing that ever really matters is whether the person who bought whatever they bought enjoys them. I happen to think my Ohms sound great and fully understand there will always be a few naysayers out there. That's their problem, not mine.
@mlsstl ... All good points, but I think many audiophiles don't give Ohm a fair chance for several reasons: 1. They are not expensive, so how could they be any good? 2. No fancy adverts in the audio rags, which leads to... 3. No glowing reviews in the big audio rags (there have been a few in the blogosphere, all pretty good). 4. John Strohbeen of Ohm avoided audio shows for many years. Although he has demonstrated at shows in the last few years, the sound he got at the shows ranged from middling to good (all I could think about when visiting his demo rooms was how much better his speakers sound at my house). IMO, that was due to John's desire to showcase "everyman" systems with low- or mid-fi electronics. I would suggest John, at least once, go over the top on the electronics and wires at a show. Then I would make up a new, fake model number, and add a zero to the price of one of his tower models. Then, on the way out of the room, have someone hand visitors a card that says, "You actually just heard the Ohm Walsh x000, which sells for 1/10th the price that was displayed." 5. I personally invited John to present at my local audio club, in an adjacent state to Ohm's NYC home, but was rebuffed. He felt he wouldn't be able to get good sound in the short time he had to set things up. I think he would have impressed a lot of members who would have heard his speakers. Since John seems to rely almost entirely on word of mouth adverts (plus some web adverts), this would have been a smart move. 6. For those who need approval from the S.O., the speakers may or may not get approval based only on their appearance. They are great for cat owners and parents of toddlers, but nobody will mistake an Ohm tower speaker with a floorstander from Sonus faber. But that's one reason why they are inexpensive.
There may be more to this list, but that's all I can think of right now.
@mapman... I knew I forgot something! Yes. The misconception that omni speakers can't accurately image, in spite of huge successes in this regard from MBL and German Physics, as well as Ohm, persists.
Some detracters will say omni directional speakers are just a gimmick. I think its the other way around. I think Ohm speakers are more real sounding and conventional speakers jimmy up the sound.
They are fantastic if you don’t have any choice but to put them next to the front wall or even in the corners. I’ve had Ohm Walsh 4s for about 5 years, and since I got them I haven’t been curious once about trying different speakers. I think that’s audiophile if audiophile means listening to and enjoying music instead of wondering if something might image better or whatever. Recently the audiophiliac described analog as more “dense” than digital, and right away I thought, and Ohms too.
AFAIK, I think it varies from model to model. I think my 2000s have an aluminum driver, but it doesn't sound at all like an aluminum driver. John Strohbeen is a genius.
My understanding is similar to @bondmanp but the variance I recall being mentioned I believe by John Strohbeen, maybe somewhere in his blog on OHM site, is version to version over the years more so than model to model. Not sure. A call or email to Ohm would probably provide a more concrete answer. Would be interested in the answer. I think I recall aluminum being mentioned recently with at least some latest versions as well. Mine are one generation older....series 3, pretty sure they are not aluminum. THere are 4 generations/versions over the years since the early 80’s: original usually designated X, series 2 and series 3 usually designated X00 and current line designated X000.
I've been consulting with John Strohbeen since the late 80's regarding my Walsh 4's. One thing I love about the man is his direct answers to direct questions; no hesitation, no BS, just a straight answer. Here's a sample of some of his answers over the years.
Q. The felt on the backside of the cans are coming unglued and curling at the edges, should I re-glue them?
A. Don't bother, peel them off, sound wise they make no difference. They're there because some people hear better with their eyes than ears.
Q. The 'tufflex' batting inside my cabinets have disintegrated, can I buy replacements from you?
A. You mentioned that your wife makes quilts; well, steal some batting from her stash, about 1" thick put them 1/3 of the way down the cabinets making sure that they're tucked into the corners and you're good to go. (worked like a charm)
Q. For a few years you were using aluminum tweeters and now it appears you've gone back to soft dome. Why?
A. Aluminum tweeters spec out better but I just don't like their sound so I went back to the soft dome.
See, you don't have to Google ad nauseam and get wrapped up in analysis paralysis, just call John.
@uncleang... Yup, that's our JS! I have met him numerous times, and called him on occasion, and JS is BS-free. 12 years and counting with my Walsh 2000s. Loving them more and more. Wish I could say that about my wife!
FYIMy beloved Walsh 4s have been in storage for a few years and before bringing them back to replace my "2s" I sent them to Ohm to have them "refurbished. When I spoke to John I mentioned that I would love to do the full upgrade to the 4-3000 but it was not within my budget. He mentioned that there was a "tweeter upgrade" that was just what I was looking for. It is typically offered when the "maintenance" also needs to replace a tweeter. I did not need my tweeters replaced but wanted more brightness that the later 3000 tweeter would offer. In this upgrade you get your surrounds replaced, upgraded tweeters, and modifications to the crossover in the can to accommodate them. You keep your additional controls and the associated crossover in the base. It is "plug and play", sounds terrific, and costs around $1000 (half of the 4-3000 upgrade) You miss out on higher power handling, the lighter weight motor, the deeper bass, and I assume the surrounds are foam? and not rubber (like the 2s?) so they eventually will have to be redone like most speakers.
As you would expect, John, Evan and staff are expert, caring, and know how to listen to speakers (and you). I am thrilled that years ago I found a speaker that to me, sounds right.
BTW, OHM has just announced that prices are going up....now.
@cdrat... I don't know what the woofer surround material is. However, the current line of Ohm Walsh speakers are expected to have about a 50 year lifespan, according to John at Ohm. John is all too aware of the wear and tear issues with earlier Ohm speakers. I think he set his very capable mind to designing in better longevity when he designed the current models, including the woofer surrounds. I would expect your upgrade to use whatever material is being used for the new production speakers.
Been on the fence about Ohm Walsh 2000 purchase as i could not find a place to audition them. Gave up after 2 months and ordered the Tall 2000 back in August. The wait time on delivery seems to keep going up so i assume business is very good at Ohm speakers inc.
@audionacious.... I did the same thing in the fall of 2009 with the same speakers, which were a new model at the time. After reading through hundreds of posts here in several threads from Ohm owners, a pattern emerged which, IME, accurately characterized the sonic qualities of Ohm speakers in general. Ohm's house sound is extremely uniform throughout the Walsh models (I also own a pair of Micro Walsh Talks for surround). Just give them time to break in. IME, the 2000s went through dramatic changes before settling down about 2 months into the trial period. In six months, I felt they were fully broken in. IMHO, these are killer speakers at or near their price, even the new higher price. Please keep us posted, and enjoy your Ohm's!
Apparently folks are buying lots of Ohm speakers. Just got an update that my Ohm 2000 ordered on Aug 15th should ship in February . i wonder what other popular hand built speakers backlog is .
I have read literally every word ever written about Ohm Walsh speakers on the internet and now i'm already addicted to the sound :) Waiting on my fix to arrive.
Apparently the hold up on my 4-5000 upgrade was supply chain issues with the can material . It was well worth the wait, these rock. Dynamics are incredible. I’ve been revisiting bands like War, Talking Heads, Peter Gabriel. Actually they do everything well, like acoustic Gillian Welch or Aimee Mann or Vanessa Fernandez. But something driven with lots of percussion- wow.
@sryeagerPeter Gabriel is an excellent example of recordings that can sound awful unless your system is highly resolving. The LP "Us" in particular sounds incredible on my rig, but before I had the Ohm's it was a congested hot mess. Enjoy your music!
Agree with the @bondmanpbut would only add the more resolving and able the gear upstream the more the Ohms are able to work their magic in delivering the music with pretty much any recording out there.
I’m not sure where my system falls on the “resolving” spectrum according to this forum, and I haven’t compared it to anything other thaN my prior components. But I am more than happy with a Soundsmith SSMC1 cartridge on a MoFi Studiodeck through a Musical Surroundings NovaPhonomena and Rogue Cronus Magnum II.
The speakers just keep getting better in the month or so I’be had them
@mapmanAgreed, better upstream gear will make the Ohms sound even better. I am in the process of trying new a DAC now, and differences between them are clearly and immediately audible on my 2000s.
Just notified by Ohm Acoustics my Tall 2000s have been veneered and going to finishing . Should see them 2nd half of March . Also just moved into a new ranch house with an unfinished basement measuring 15' x 22.5 ' x 8' dedicated to audio + video. Hoping to get it mostly ready in time to place them there. Just needs sheetrock, 1/2 bath and flooring over the concrete floor. Already has water / power run. Need to get a dedicated power line run and get bids on the work. I've got 6 panels of owens corning 705 that need acoustic fabric and some diffuser panels . This is gonna be the most fun i've had in years :)
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