Most of US is in a bubble on housing , an 100 grand a year job won't get you a house in many places . Most houses in Twin Cities sell for over listed price, often Far over , and are financed by the Bank of Mom & Dad .
Apartment Dweller's Paradise - The Ideal 2 ch. system?
We've had really great threads on Audiogon so far, so I'd like to keep the ball rolling.
One subject rarely covered enough in the music world are systems that are specifically for apartment dweller's. These systems are more modest in size and cost. Dolby Atmos? Forget-about-it!
How would you put together a system, under $10k, soup to nuts?
One subject rarely covered enough in the music world are systems that are specifically for apartment dweller's. These systems are more modest in size and cost. Dolby Atmos? Forget-about-it!
How would you put together a system, under $10k, soup to nuts?
80 responses Add your response
Hi Guys, I know the ideal situation is to move to the wilderness and build your own home with a separate home theater and music room, and most of the reviews in Stereophile seem to pretend that is the only consumer of good audio gear. The purpose of this thread however is to explore gear that is much more friendly to modest spaces and systems. Perhaps not just in modest homes/apartments but also offices. Let's try to keep the focus on good gear for smaller spaces and budgets please. Best, Erik |
I like what I heard from the Odyssey Kismet speaker that was on display at a show. I believe the company makes direct sales, so it may not be that easy to arrange an audition. I heard them in a small room at a show, placed not to far from the back wall, so I think they are suited for small spaces (small floor-standing speakers). In the much more expensive camp, the smallest and cheapest Raidho speaker is pretty good (to me, better than their bigger speakers). The British company Neat makes some nice speakers that will be a good fit for smaller rooms. Also quite hard to find for audition, but worth looking for are Trenner and Friedl (Austrian) speakers. These are lively sounding speakers that are a little bit off the beaten path. |
I find it interesting that so many posters are suggesting systems with a multitude of components and loudspeakers that need to be placed out in the listening room for proper functioning. Space is a luxury item for apartment dwellers and I doubt most will have a dedicated listening room. Along these lines an ideal 2 channel system would be streaming device and a pair of wireless/powered loudspeakers. Klipsch, Dynaudio, KEF, Paradigm and others make this type of loudspeaker. Paired with a music streaming service such a system could even eliminate the space needed for CD storage. Alternatively, Magnepan's Mini Maggie system doesn't take up much space and someone earlier mentioned Gradient Revolutions as loudspeakers that operate very well placed right up against the rear wall. Either paired with a device like the AVM CD streaming receiver would be very satisfying. Steinway Lyngdorf's Model S system would require more components (2 amps and a digital processor), but are also designed for against wall performance. |
I've been thinking about this issue in part for my desktop system. I built my own 2-way monitors, but the little digital amp I bought is seriously underpowered, plus it's really inconvenient to switch cables for headphones vs. speakers. So I'm bidding on e-bay for a Parasound Zpre and Zamp. With luck I'll spend around $200 for both, and end up with a 45w/ch rig. The Zpre may be overkill, but I have a logitech touch that is gathering dust. Would be nice to have music here that didn't require the PC to be on. Also noted, the latest Zpre has a dedicated sub-woofer output. Pretty sweet for a high-end mini sat/sub system. Best, E |
I agree that unit size is an important factor for most apartment dwellers. As is combining functions into an integrated plus sources or an all-in-one unit to save space and wiring. Perhaps half size units from Cyrus, Bel Canto, or TEAC would work. Of these, the British-made Cyrus is my clear favorite. Unfortunately, distribution is spotty in the U.S. April Music offers the Aura Note 2, an unusual desktop all-in-one unit with a Class D 125-watt integrated amp, top-loading CD player, FM tuner, and a host of digital inputs. Was a Stereophile Class A product just a couple of years ago. Saves hassle and cost of cables. Just need speaker cables and a USB cable for digital input. and an optical digital cable. And a longtime audiophile favorite just got a major upgrade: the Rega Brio R integrated with phono preamp. But no digital inputs. Mates beautifully with the Rega Apollo R top-loading CD player. Both half-size units. ClairAudient makes two bookshelf/desktop speakers using single drivers that sound extraordinarily well in small or nearfield. environments. The ONE and the slightly larger V2 1+1. For floorstanders, I would audition the Totem Arros and the OHM Microwalsh speakers. I am not a fan of wireless speakers, so I am not the person to recommend. |
@erik_squires said: "I'm waiting on someone to bring up small, horn loaded speakers." I have a reasonable, 3- or 4-way "hybrid" (or partial) horn system in a small apartment in Brooklyn with a 12' x 12' (with 9' ceiling) living room: Altec 3000G (with integrated horn) tweeter Altec 804A 1" compression driver on Edgarhorn 650Hz Tractrix horn Altec 414Z 12" woofer in modern Altec 614 cabinet Cain & Cain Bailey subwoofer At the moment, I amplify all three Altec drivers (including mid-bass unit) with a Type 45-based single-ended power amplifier. And with this, I use a homebrew passive crossover. (The subwoofer has an integral plate amp and its own crossover network.) This is pretty far from ideal, though, for someone like me with so little crossover understanding. So, I'm in the process of converting to a more sophisticated configuration with an active digital crossover with a separate power amp on each driver pair or "frequency unit." This will allow for lots of crossover experimentation; improved bass quality (by using a more powerful, perhaps solid state, amp on mid-bass); and time alignment, equalization, and room correction. Of course, with these speakers and two racks full of tube gear and a large turntable, the system (at least visually) dominates the room -- which may not be to everyone's taste. That said, it all fits neatly on one 12' wall, and (happily/strangely) appeals to my fiancee. (She's a designer and completely unpredictable when it comes to aesthetics. I got lucky on this one!) I used to use (and still have) a pair of Cain & Cain Abbys, which might work for a similar apartment-dweller. Although almost 6' tall, they have a tiny footprint. And they were made (by a simple driver swap) in two versions, including "nearfield," which allows for a very close listening position. As Voigt Pipes, these are in the horn family, I guess -- or at least not too far removed -- so I figured I'd mention. Anyway! Lots of ways to do this, as all of the excellent posts above prove... |
There is always a pr of Sennheiser HD headphones and an Woo or Pangea headphone amp . In my bedroom I have a pr of HD 650’s driven by a Pangea HD 201 which uses one 12AX7, using an Amprex Holland on mine , NAD 565BEE as source All bought used except the Pagea , I have less than a grand in it and truth be told, it sounds so good it would be my only system were I a young man just starting out in Audio . I would use the money I spent on my other system(s) to either buy a new Mercedes 550 or make a nice donation To "Save the Children Fund " . I never really liked " phones but I was surprised how quickly I adjusted to them when I actually spent time required to adjust ! |
A System for an Apartment Dweller? For around $10K?? Okay..... Here Goes: Wireless (For Smaller Apartment): Speaker System: KEF LS50 Wireless (Wi-Fi/Bluetooth Operation; Wireless Remote Control; Built-In Amplification -- 200 Watts For The Woofers/30 Watts For The Tweeters; Analog/Digital Connectivity; etc) -- $2,200.00 Speaker Stands: Sanus Steel Foundations SF26B (Sand/Lead Filled) -- $130.00 Powered Subwoofer(s): VTF-1 Mk3 (x2) (250 Watts Continuous/1000 Watts Short Term/10" Woofer/2 Ports) ($380.00 Each) -- $760.00 Digital Music Player: BlueSound VAULT 2 -- $1,200.00 Phono Stage: PS Audio GCPH -- $500.00 (Used) Turntable/Arm: VPI Scout w/JMW-9T Tone Arm -- $2,000.00 Phono Cartridge: Sumiko BPS-EVO III -- $550.00 Splitter RCA Jack: AudioQuest Hard RCA Splitter (Plugged Into Subwoofer Output On Rear Of KEF LS50 Wireless Speaker System To Accommodate Two VTF-1 Mk3 Powered Subwoofers) -- $13.00 Power Cords: Pangea AC 14SE MkII -- (x4)($65.00 Each) -- $260.00 Interconnects: Cardas Crosslink (x3) (For VTF-1 Mk3 Subwoofers; VPI Scout Turntable; PS Audio GCPH)($170.00) -- $510.00 Digital Toslink Optical Cable: AudioQuest Pearl -- $40.00 Tablet: Apple iPad Mini 4 (128 GB) (Additional Music Source) -- $400.00 Smart Phone: Apple iPhone 6S (2015)(64 GB)(w/KEF LS50 Control App) -- Free System Total: $8,563.00 Component Hi-Fi System (For Larger Apartment): Speaker System: Vandersteen 2Ce Signatures (In Rosewood) -- $2,560.00 Speaker Stands: Sound Anchor (For Vandersteen 2Ce Signatures) -- $400.00 Integrated Amplifier: Cambridge Audio 851A AZUR (Dual-Mono Design; 120 Watts Per Channel @ 8 Ohms/200 Watts Per Channel @ 4 Ohms; XLR Inputs (x2)) -- $1,600.00 Music Streamer: Cambridge Audio 851 AZUR Network Music Streamer (24-Bit/192 kHz. Capability; Upsamples To 384 kHz; Dual 24-Bit DAC’s; XLR Outputs) -- $1,600.00 Phono Stage: PS Audio GCPH -- $500.00 (Used) Turntable/Arm: VPI Scout w/JMW-9T Tone Arm -- $2,000.00 Phono Cartridge: Sumiko BPS-EVO III -- $550.00 Speaker Cables -- AudioQuest GBC (Bi-Wired For Vandersteen 2Ce Signatures) -- $308.00 Interconnects: AudioQuest Black Mamba (RCA) (VPI Turntable To PS Audio Phono Stage) -- $24.00; AudioQuest MacKenzie Braid (x2)(XLR)(PS Audio GCPH To Cambridge 851A AZUR; Cambridge Audio 851N AZUR To Cambridge 851A AZUR)($190 Each) -- $380.00 Tablet: Apple iPad Mini 4 (128 GB) (Additional Music Source) -- $400.00 Smart Phone: Apple iPhone 6S (2015)(64 GB)(w/Cambridge Audio Control Apps) -- Free System Total: $10,250.00 (Ooops.... $250 Over Budget.... Can Someone Spot Me $250.00? Otherwise... I’ll Put The $250.00 Balance On My Credit Card). Happy Listening Everyone!!! --Charles-- |
If the room is really small (like my 18sqm study) I think nothing beats the Harbeth P3ESR speakers. Since they are a closed system, they can also be located relatively closely to the wall. In a somewhat larger room one could add two small subwoofers (works a treat, I tried it, but with Antimode 8033 equalization), and or move up to the Harbeth M30.1. Electronics would depend on the sources that are required. Assuming a TV and discs are also part of the story, I would go for an Oppo UDP205 as a universal player, serving as a pre amplifier as well. Chromecast Audio for streaming. Add a 2x100 watt power amplifier (or more in a larger room and with the M30.1) with balanced inputs. Benchmark AHB2 if you want the best, Emotiva if budget matters. If a disc player is unneccessary, why not a Yamaha RN 803d? |
Or if I am to move into VERY small efficiency (renting an apartment or buying a condo)(about 500 Sq. Ft. or less), and would still would like to have excellent sound, then I can also put together this nice little system for VERY little money. Speaker System: ELAC UB5 — $500.00 or Wharfedale Reva-2 — $1000.00* Speaker Stands: Sanus Steel Foundations SF26B (Sand/Lead Filled) — $130.00 Powered Subwoofer: Speedwoofer 10S RS Wireless — $400.00 Integrated Amplifier: NAD C-338 — $650.00 Headphones: Sennheiser HD-650 — $500.00 Turntable: Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Esprit (in Black) — $600.00 Phono Cartridge: Ortofon 2M Blue — $250.00 Digital Music Player: BlueSound NODE 2 — $500.00 Speaker Cables: AudioQuest GBC — $150.00 Interconnects: AudioQuest Red River (2 Prs. @ $120.00 each) — $240.00 Digital Cable: AudioQuest Pearl (Coaxial) — $40.00** Tablet: Apple iPad Mini 4 (128 GB)(Additional Music Source) — $400.00 Smart Phone: iPhone 6S (2015)(64 GB)(w/NAD & Speedwoofer Apps) — Free Stand: SolidSteel S5-5 — $1,500.00 System Total: $5,860.00 w/ELAC UB5 Speaker System System Total: $6,360.00 w/Wharfedale Reva-2 Speaker System * = Wharfedale Reva-2 has a Piano Cherry or Rosewood Finish I find to be intoxicating and that I “MUST” have ** = Price of AudioQuest Pearl Coaxial Digital Cable is approximate —Charles— |
And if space is really at a premium: ATC on wall speakers: http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/hts-on-wall/hts7/ |
" Ideal system for a SMALL space is a headphone system , With a little careful buying you can get as good, or better, than the average 10K$ system for a thousand bucks . And 95% of the population can adjust to "phones. After 3-4 weeks they seem normal ." Great Point "Schubert" Well, I have a very nice Headphone System in mind as well. And this will be a home and mobile system. Headphones (1): Focal Clear (Home) -- $2,000.00 Headphones (2): Sennheiser HD-600 (Mobile) -- $300.00 Headphone Amplifier/DAC/DSD: McIntosh MHA-100 -- $2,500.00 (Used) Phono Preamplifier: PS Audio GCPH -- $500.00 (Used) Turntable/Arm System: VPI Industries Scout/JMW Memorial Arm -- $2,000.00 Phono Cartridge: Sumiko BPS EVO III -- $550.00 Digital Music Player (Home): BlueSound Vault 2 -- $1,200.00 Digital Music Player (Mobile): Sony NW-WM1A -- $1,200.00 System Total: $10,250.00 + XLR Cables (Home & Mobile System) --Charles-- |
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I put my current system of Quad VA-One driving Dynaudio Excite X14’s up against anything out there in a small room... Even at lower listening levels it still has body and detail...I’ve experimented with plugging the port and putting them against the wall and the room still disappears..Amazing pint size speakers and superbly musical amp with fantastic(although underpowered)headphone circuit... |
Today another killer little apartment amp arrived fresh from full factory rebuild..The iFi Audio Retro Stereo 50 is,like the Quad AV-One an EL84 Class A PP all in 1 control amp...In the right size room with the right speakers these tiny titans provide world class sound!Unlike the lowish powered Quad, the iFi has an amazing tube driven headphone circuit that can be optimized for any conventional headphone/in ear monitor available,including the HiFiMan HE6 where it will feed a massive 7 watts! |
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stringreen:"If you're REALLY interested in getting the best sound and to keep the neighbors happy.....get high end earphones with a dedicated amp. You'll have all bases covered." What about keeping us happy?Headphones are wonderful but will NEVER take the place of a well built 2 channel system,neighbors be damned... Since I posted twice in this thread,I've gone through through the wonderful Quad VA-One,iFi Audio Retro 50,Cayin CS-55 & Creek Evolution 50a with Ruby 2 DAC board & I am about to pull the trigger on what I hope will be my end game set up,the Gold Note DS-10/PA-10 combination... |
OH HAPPY DAYS,the ULTIMATE Apartment dwellers amp/dac is back!!! The wonderful,amazing Quad VA-One+ is now shipping.Updated DAC board to the latest SABRE DAC chip & an new AUTOMATIC BIASING circuit now make this the end game apartment/bedroom system control center!!!BUY ONE BEFORE THEY SELL OUT,I DID!!! |