Anyone heard the new ARC LS28 SE?

I had an LS28 and moved to a REF6.  They were very close.

I can get a new ls28se for $8500. I think a ref 6 is around $8000 on the used market. Im thinking the ls28 se will be an improvement from the ref 6. With that all said its also in the price range of the ref 40 anniversary. Wonder how the ls28se stands up to the ref 40 anniversary.

I would call ARC and discuss, then will know the relative performance of LS28/LS28SE/REF6/REF6SE/REF40.

If you find out, let us know what they said, please.

OP,
Did you ever find out how the various ARC preamps compare?  Did you try any of them?

bump

My opinion the 28SE is several notches below a Ref 6. ARC makes Ref series preamps for a reason. This is my opinion only but why would a company make a linestage that would better their top of the line models especially within a model years apart? 

@samzx12 have you heard both the LS28SE and the REF6?  In similar systems?

No I have not however, I have heard previous Linestages and Ref series preamps. The Ref series are steps above the Linestages.  Different build qualities. 

Obviously true when speaking of current lines (duh, of course ARC wouldn't be so dumb to make current lower end product sound same as reference), but not necessarily obvious when comparing current product versus older reference.

After all, the SE upgrade to the LS28 specifically included many of the same upgrades (same gold coupling caps for one, per ARC themselves) that the Ref6SE got, so I wouldn't make blanket statements without actually comparing

You are correct Kren0006 comparing old vs new is a different story  :)

I think the Linestages do have the same sonic characteristics as their bigger brothers but as far as performance the Ref series is going to have more of EVERYTHING generally speaking.  Personally I love the new look of the current crop of Revolution preamps. 

HI everibody, I'm Teo and I am new at this forum. I just had occasion to test and taste :-)  both ARC pre ( I mean ls27  vs ref6).

I was looking to find a Pre to upgrade my set up.

In Milan, close were I live, There were in a music shop both equipment used on sale (but few hours operating ,valve counter says around 2000h) .

Dealer allow me to brought with me my set up, in order to add PRE and test before decide wich to buy.

My set up were composed by:

Hearbeth shl5+ 40th anniversary

PRE Cairn nanda  (dual mono  fully balanced)

FINAL  pair of 2 mono Cairn k1 A class 50W 

 

then we ran, in order  :

1- my set up as it is .

2- my set up (but not my PRE) inserting LS27

3-my set up (but not my PRE) inserting ref6

4-my set up (but not my PRE) inserting LS27 again 

was hard but in the end ls27 results more enjoiable and emotional respect ref6 ...YES I know..strange to say... but that was.

in the end , listening to our ears ...  ref6 doesn't worth the money ( double respect ls27) 

may be could be that I had to upgrade also Final stage  (but this means to spend around 10k€ again ) in order to hear /feel differently  and chose ref6.

we spend around 4 hours in test and listening the same differents music /tracks with all the set up configuration listed before...  in order to arrive a conclusions.... 

  ...hoping it will be usefull 

ciao MAt   

Wonderful….most likely you found best value of 3 preamps that then expose  and are ThEMselves limited by limitations up or downstream. Musical enjoyment is key ;-) 

Best to you !! enjoy the music

 

@teopulos  thought i might also mention a wonderful Italian audio shop i patronize….

Audio Antiquary , Casalecchio di Reno

ciao @tomic601 ! i do know audio antiquary,... it's a pity...it is far from me... i would take a look only if I could.

do u know other audio shop close to milan? como ? lecco ?

 

other QUESTION..  do u know how it works  PRE Audio Research  + AMP accuphase in general  ( with Harbeth ) ? 

ciao

thx

Mat

In order to appreciate the differences between Ref and LS series the associated equipment must be sufficiently resolving and the match between the amp and preamp (impedance among others) favorable. The LS series are designed similarly to Ref series but there are major differences in soundstage, detail, and resolution by design intent at ARC. It is somewhat conventional wisdom that the latest LS outperforms the previous REF, but listening does not always confirm this depending on overall system components, Don’t compare a used Ref series with a new LS series to ascertain value. Compared used to used to better approach value and desirability. 

I've owned the LS28, 28SE, Ref 6 and Ref 6SE.  The SE versions are significantly better than the non-SE counterparts.

To me, the LS pres do almost everything the Ref ones do, but the Ref preamps are much better with scale and perspective i.e. not only are instruments placed correctly, but they sound appropriately sized.  The LS pres are more homogenous, presenting a viola and a cello as similarly sized instruments.

I also find the Refs sound more relaxed and effortless.  The soundstage is larger with the Ref preamps, too.

There is the slightest hint of harshness in the LS28s.  I would probably never have noticed if I hadn't stepped into the Ref line.

Forgot to add:

Choosing between a 28SE and a Ref 6 is not an easy choice.  I don't know what I would do between those two.

Listening to the LS28se right now in my own system on demo. It's very good, truthful, transparent, somewhat textured, tighter bass with tilt more towards the upper to mid frequencies, but not bright or harsh. Possibly walking the line of dry to a slim degree, with a decent width of soundstage, depth isn't great but not worse than any other solid state pre I've heard. 

 

Overall great pre, with tight bass that really let's you hear the character of your amp and source. 

@jc51373 Thanks for that very insightful and honest summary.  I get most of it, but I have to say I was surprised that soundstage depth wasn’t great and on par with SS preamps.  That’d be a major disappointment to me and an area where I thought ARC gear (and tubes in general) was strong.  What’s your other equipment, what are your room dimensions, and how far are your speakers from the back wall?  Also, and importantly, what pre are you comparing it to?  Just trying to get a handle on this because it’s a bit disappointing as it is.

I own a Reference 6SE and have listened to the LS28SE. A friend of mine bought one as well, so I have listened to them in more than one setting.

 

It is an outstanding preamp and very similar to the Reference 6SE. Same sound qualities, detailed, musical, great midrange bloom. The Reference is just a little bit better, bit lower noise floor, a bit more dynamic… cut from the same cloth. It is a question of finances. If you have a choice and can afford the extra money, get the REF 6SE or REF 10. If not, the LS28SE is outstanding.

 

The LS28SE throws a great wide and deep soundstage. But I have not had one in my system to directly compare with the REF. I detected no hardening of the high frequencies in the LS. 

@soix room is like a rectangle, about 18x11 with a dormered area where I sit on one of the long walls, system sits opposite on the other long wall. 9 foot ceilings, it’s an upstairs office area. Amp is the Sugden FBA-800 Sapphire amp, pure Class A. Speakers are a transmission line type (JM Reynaud) so placement from the wall isn’t as important but they sit about 3 feet off the walls. I also have the AGD preamp here, which is warmer less transparent but really wonderful otherwise. Soundstage depth on the AGD is actually much better, and there have been points where I am hearing things behind my head with that preamp. The ARC has yet to do that and I can’t see it doing that, doesn’t have a holographic character, more of a transparent neutral character.

 

@ghdprentice thanks for the validation because I can’t afford the Ref6SE right now so this seems like it might be a good landing point. I have a couple others I want to hear as well, but this preamp ranks up there at the top for sure...Might be lacking a smidge of emotion, but I need to run more time and tracks through it. It’s a transparency king for sure.

@jc51373 Very interesting indeed.  I’ve read lots of superlatives about AGD amps and hold them in the highest regard but haven’t heard anything about their preamp, so consider my interest piqued.  Thanks for sharing. 

AGD is wonderful gear...I have the Audions coming tomorrow to listen to. I will report in one of those threads. 

RE: this preamp, LS28se, I am thinking any limitations I am hearing could be related to break in since it has less than 100 hours on it. Seems to be some bandwidth limitation on some tracks. Overall I can hear through this but I think I may be hearing burn in limitations. If thats the case and this thing sweetens a little it's a force to be wreckoned with. 

The preamplifier will need about 250-300hrs. At 100hrs it isn’t fully cooked yet.

Also, in my experience, the ARC preamps sound their best with XLR cables. 

@audphile1 

 

thanks Audphile1...I have it hooked up RCA right now so I can understand the differences between to the inputs so this is great to know. I will put a few days on RCAs then hit the XLR input for a few. My amp is fully balanced (I/O) so I think I should get some sonic improvement there. 

Definitely! XLR in and XLR out of possible. 

100 hours into breakin of Audio Research gear is not a good time to make appraisals of sound quality. It tends to get better (still not great) through 120 hours… then flip flops from good to bad for at least twenty to thirty hours. One definitely does not want to be assessing until at least 250 hours. It still improves through 600 hours, although not at as great a rate. There is a very very subtle improvement to 1,000..

Thanks @ghdprentice ...I let it run all night, listened some of today and listening now it’s definitely improved now sittiing at about 117 hours. I am literally stunned at how good this preamp is, and the synergy with my amp. It literally feels like I got a new DAC and a new preamp. I will reserve judgement until I get up around the 250 hour marker and also get it hooked up XLR, waiting for my new longer ICs to arrive next week. For now, it's a GIANT leap forward for my system. 

 

I had the AGD Audions in today for a short period as well before I went back.

Cool. ARC tubed preamp with a nice SS amp is an awesome combo. I had the Ref6 in my system for almost a month and enjoyed it immensely paired with Pass X260.8 monos. Big, natural and dynamic. The 28SE should not be too far behind.