These cheap off the shelf made expensive switches are layer 2 you can’t do any priority with them. A $50 netgear managed switch would do more for a busy home network.
Anybody want a laugh?
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I believe that if you use shielded ethernet cables, there actually is a chance of affecting your sound output... because they have the potential to create a ground loop if the switch and streamer are on different outlets. Most people, however, don’t use shielded cables so that’s generally not an issue. I’m assuming these audiocentric switches are for streaming within your own home - otherwise, there is a whole world of internet infrastructure out there between you and the streaming data source. Assuming the streaming protocol is TCP based, it’s packets over the line, into a buffer for reconstruction, then into another buffer for decoding. The transfer rates are significantly high enough that unless you’re dealing with major network congestion (something these tweaks won’t help with), you should have no problem keeping the buffers full. If for some reason, your home network is sufficiently congested, the best thing you can probably do to ensure good quality audio is to implement some kind of QoS policy in your switch to prioritize traffic between the source and the streamer. Hope to keep this discussion respectful - this is my view from a computer/software engineering perspective. |
Upset.. You’re seeing the neutered version, I think I’ve had more of my posts here moderated than any forum I’ve posted on in the last 20 years. As for limiting my media consumption to “cute stuff”, judging by how flimsy people’s confidence in their purchasing is around here, I think I’ve struck a nerve. Though I don’t expect this thread to have any lasting effect, I do think it’s brought out some people with real technical expertise. Those individuals have tried (maybe in vain) to color in some missing details, which has power washed some of the snake oil that accumulated back into the drain where it belongs. |
Mr. dougeyjones: Your GUESS at what a piece of equipment will or will not do is not very logical. Your demeanor is that of someone very upset with ??? people??? Try something else to do with your spare time for a while. DON'T watch TV, and avoid conversations that are not about puppies or other cute stuff. |
In other words, whether you are at home or not, EU Smart Light Switch you can connect to this socket through mobile devices such as mobile phones to control the lights or other household appliances connected to the socket. www.hidintech.com as a small device can be plugged into the wall, in addition to providing a three-plug port, it also provides two USB ports. The device can be connected to the home network and US Smart Plug controlled by mobile devices. |
no kidding, noknows....I mean, Noise...;) I am not reluctant to state my age....I've spent the better part of a lifetime to even get here in a relatively undamaged state.... As for an 'institutional memory', I've worked hard to forget That error, I mean, era. The only entertainment was to act up to get something 'more entertaining'...."Can I have 4 more of...." NO! "....*grumble*....you're no fun...." Let them scratch their heads...Both of them. Dumazz 40ish punks we've sired or misfired....not worth a Martian nickel on Mars anyway....*wheez* (Here, punked....hold these wires....) ....as I wuz complaining, these kidz don't have any tense of distortion anymore....always bluetoothed into oblivion, earduds up their noses.... Don't hold Those Wires LIK*LOUD FLASH*xmissioninterruptKV714/O-L |
@nonoise , mine were cool for me being an altar boy....at a point when The Ritual had become already too obscure and obtuse to be taken seriously. Now, I will admit that one of the young nuns was attactive in her way, but the potential of 'worship' with/of her wasn't terribly likely....*L* 'Young nuns' being a rarity even then...;) 'Carson humor'...*smirk* It was more fun to watch Robin Williams destroy the place, the audience, and Johnny hisself.....;) Or early Don Rickles act like a verbal pit bull to anyone and thing that came to mind.... 'Scuse me, I'm showing my age....and lack of relative restraint....*G* |
Your bombshell is Hans Beekhuyzen ? I missed the bombshell it wasn't where he said this sounds better was it? He may be dry and not prone to hyperbole but I didn't see anything to back up his claim. I can say wow this Pepsi tastes better than this other Pepsi but without a chemical analysis I fail to see why anyone would believe me. He could have shown that this switch performed better than a cheap switch with some basic measurements of noise and jitter. |
@nkphoto, I knew my humor kinda crossed the line but I'm from the old school, Johnny Carson type of humor that's verboten nowadays. I just couldn't resist as it's the only reference I could think of that was the least offensive. Back in high school, German was the language I chose to learn and my teacher said my accent was so good, that I could pass for a German since there are, If I remember correctly, about 300 rural districts and I could be thought to be from a different one than the one I was in. I wish I would have kept up on it. Maybe something to consider now that I'm retired. All the best, Nonoise |
@nonoise hey hey, easy tiger, there is a German here after all... After the death of Germany's most beloved (and VERY FUNNY) comedian Loriot 9 years ago, there was an entertaining article in UK's The Guardian about the difficulty trying to translate his humor. A good line from the article is: "Empirically speaking, English people are among the least qualified in the world to pass judgment on comedy in other languages." ;-) Anyhow, zero offense taken, us Germans have (or should have) developed a rather thick skin about how we are being stereo-typed. |
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All the posturing could maybe have been avoided from the start by listening to what this guy had to say, who actually put in the time testing, listening and comparing - one of the few voices in audio who strives to be independent and objective, never shilling anything for anyone. His reviews are dry to a fault, so if you can't make it through the whole thing, just listen to his "bombshell" conclusion, which is note-worthy as he is not one prone to hyperbole: https://youtu.be/n95pGUQTvOk?t=578 |
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What is noise on Ethernet? If you have noise, what does it sound like on Ethernet? Since I installed corporate networks starting back in the late 80’s, I ran a few ip packet sniffers and used a few fluke meters, and you can determine if an ip packet has issues. Before I spend this kind of money on a switch which has the easiest job to do in a lan/wan, I would start at making sure each Ethernet cable is certified by a fluke meter. If you have emi issues, use a good quality shielded Ethernet cable, preferably a cat7. Sniff the ip packets before hitting the switch and the look at the packets after the switch to see if you have any errors or do the packets look different. With today’s fast home networks, at 1G or higher, your cables could be your weakest link. |
"...time to brush up on administering last rites."Here is the start... https://www.learnreligions.com/what-are-last-rites-542850 |
@sgordon1, It’s nice to see this brought up, again, as no matter how long it’s been around, it’s either forgotten or misused or, in this case, derided by the tone deaf who find it objectionable for some reason to employ it when describing what one hears, so as to convey it to others. All the best, Nonoise |
@dougeyjones That's right. There are people here that are making profits out of plain lies... The stupid "bit argument" i hear so often is so DUMB... As for DD-WRT, i used it a while back on Linksys WRT54G, it was so much better that the stock crappy Linksys firmware! Cool if it fits your needs! But if you're a bit of a hacker / techie, buy a Mikrotik and try RouterOS, it's really top notch. It supports OSPF, MPLS and even BGP!!! For QoS, sky is the limit so for people streaming in busy networks, you have complete fine grain control. You could even download a tryout for x86 and run it inside a VM. |
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So my post is removed because I hit the proverbial nail on the head after getting heaps of abusive comments by some thin skinned wanna bes who gets their fee fees hurt? Goes to show you, doesn’t it? They don’t have a leg to stand on when it comes to listening. Why they're on this site is beyond me. All the best, Nonoise |
This whole thread is reminding me of the current political climate in the US. Half the population seems to have zero interest in expert opinions (engineers), facts, or science, and only want to hear what they already believe echo’d back at them.Careful there, Dougie..... When it comes to global warming and this criminally avoidable pandemic, I'm the guy you want in your corner. To conflate the two for purposes of scoring points would not serve your interests well. All the best, Nonoise |
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@guyboisvert This whole thread is reminding me of the current political climate in the US. Half the population seems to have zero interest in expert opinions (engineers), facts, or science, and only want to hear what they already believe echo’d back at them. Network wise, I’d put my TP-Link Archer AC750 flashed with DD-WRT up against anybodies $5k router with complete confidence in the outcome. |
If you want to improve your streaming quality set priority to the streamer. One of these managed netgear switches for $30 will do more than the linked unmanaged switch. https://www.netgear.com/business/products/switches/web-managed/GS305E.aspx |
Here are some references for those who want to understand: https://www.ti.com/sc/docs/apps/msp/intrface/usb/emitest.pdfhttps://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/crcdes.pdf https://www.potaroo.net/ispcol/2001-09/2001-09-best.pdfhttps://networklessons.com/cisco/ccna-routing-switching-icnd2-200-105/introduction-qos-quality-servi... For the best effort networks (that's what you have inside you own house!), you could use pro routers / switches that support QoS (Quality Of Service). QoS will help for those who use streamers and have a busy network. You know, games of your kids, Netflix, big downloads, etc! Here is one of the best little router money can buy:https://www.amazon.com/MikroTik-RBD52G-5HacD2HnD-TC-Dual-Concurrent-802-11a-Ethernet/dp/B079SD8NVQ Don't let the price fool you: It's really a pro product and we have many installed in SMB clients offices. It easily beats models costing 5-10X more. I use his bigger brother (RB4011) with more ports in my own house. But there is indeed a learning curve, it's pro stuff. One has to understand networking, be good at googling and not afraid of reading / testing. Those "audio networking products" should just concentrate on real important topics and provide a friendly user interface. |
@nonoise Yeah i know, you don't have "a dog" to respond to real arguments... Your previous response "fueled" mine trying to sound superior and shut down real world digital principles... "Knowing how it works doesn’t preclude that something poorly designed won’t have an effect". This thread is about a network switch ripoff and abuse of consumer... I'll repeat again and repeat with me: TCP/IP has been designed for best effort networks. So what is you don't understand in that? So after you add: "I have a funny feeling that there are some who actually believe that since it’s just ones and zeros, that they’re so small as to be unimportant. That’s fine for printing text but reproducing sound is another matter." "So small to be unimportant": You think that i, and engineers in general, don't know about the importance of errors in digital in general and how to handle it? Not enough, you add: "That’s fine for printing text but reproducing sound is another matter"... You're trying to dismiss what i said and mixing things but at the end, it's the same. Printing doesn't work if you send errors, be it on any interface / transport medium. You really don't seem to understand digital in general: Storage, processing, transport, error correction, etc. So the reason of my response. I know what i'm talking about and Digital / network devices must be designed for the environment they are into. Same apply for USB cables and the crap link you cited is just another of those stupid "trying to look technical" BS to push people wasting their money... Computer interfaces, be it USB or any other, are designed to transfer data without errors... Same apply for the USB interface of a DAC. If you think it takes expensive cables, it's because you don't know about twisted pair, digital interfaces, checksums and async communications principles... It's as simple as that. Flip a bit and the checksum tells...so the idea of async communication + buffering. If the DAC you buy can't handle that, it's simply because of a poor design. So find back the "dog" you use at first toward me, barking doesn't impress me at all... And study the subject before throwing your "funny feelings" around here... All the best, my friend! |
I second millercarbon's opinion on HFTs. I have installed 32 of them, 3 types. Five levels plus 5 per speaker (tweeter HFTs are a fail on my speakers). The most important HFT is the side speaker ones with 1/8" change radically changes the frequency response up or down. Instead of front and rear wall exterior treatments, HFTs are it!. I have massive built in wall bass filtering/conditioning/traps and thick studio quality side wall and suspended ceiling acoustic panels. I also think SRs fuses and power outlets are great buys. However, I heard the ART system in a showroom and had them removed as well. The difference was subtle better with them in but not worth my money. The bass unit was a failure in my friend and my system, ruined the highs (none over 8Khz) and weirded up the sound (ah, but with a "darker" background). SR is a great company for what they accomplished for my system. |
@guyboisvert, Who took the jelly out of your donut? What I linked to was simply food for thought, nothing more. I don't have a dog in this fight as I don't use any kind of networking in my audio gear. And that wasn't an article, if you cared to read it, but a review on a USB cable that's mid priced, at best. It's really amazing how the calls to authority come out of the woodwork when implying that music is not impervious to noise on the line. All the best, Nonoise |
@nonoise Not knowing how digital works really shows you need a primer on electrical engineering and design... Same applies for networks. About the link to this fallacious article you provided, it is only trying to look like "technical" but only to fool people into buying expensive useless hardware... Audio is not transmitted "real time" to DAC so to speak, it's transmitted asynchronously and DAC has input buffering. Again, an easy engineering thing... How do you think CPU works in the gigahertz spectrum with billions of micro-transistors in multi-layer arrangement + in a mutual noisy environment without making any error? It’s not even logic at TTL levels, it’s lower than that! Billions of micro transmission lines, via, metal layers, etc. In the same enclosure, you have the GPU, the chipset, etc. all operating in gigahertz range. So you’re sweet little low spectrum audio is really not an engineering challenge... The only challenge is external constraints like budget, contracts, quality control, compromises, etc. If you have any minimal knowledge in engineering, you should know that... As for networks, TCP/IP is so robust, you just need proper buffering to account for the fact that it’s a best effort network. But hey, you can throw your money at the windows, it’s all up to you. It’s just disgusting to see how many people here on this board show complete disrespect for consumers.... |
Then once again my last post leaves me with the problem I have with these expensive audiophile switches. No matter if they do clean the signal of some noise actually doing what they claim it’s not really important. For instance you take two equally dirty shirts, you prewash one then wash both in your washing machine they come out equally clean. What good did prewashing do? If you have an older washing machine it might help it’s basically the same thing here you have a good measuring DAC well engineered with isolated USB these switches don’t really matter the DAC is going to clean the signal. |