@guyboisvert
This whole thread is reminding me of the current political climate in the US. Half the population seems to have zero interest in expert opinions (engineers), facts, or science, and only want to hear what they already believe echo’d back at them.
Network wise, I’d put my TP-Link Archer AC750 flashed with DD-WRT up against anybodies $5k router with complete confidence in the outcome.
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I think you’re wasting your breath man, admitting that this, or any switch, does nothing would for a lot of AudioGon folks be opening a Pandora’s box, they’d have e to reevaluate how many other things they’ve set money on fire for. |
That’s not my argument. My argument is that the other equipment that will connect on either end of something like this switch, and indeed the internal solder points inside this switch are not capable of producing an improvement, so dropping this “link” in the middle of a dirty chain won’t do anything.
Weakest link anybody? Super old principle that still holds up quite well.
The mods deleted my original reply, which contained no profanity or anything else that would normally warrant removal from a forum, so I guess the AudioGon leaderships MO is defending the fragile state of mind of its membership. |
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Miller, I generally enjoy your posts, but you just wrote a book explaining something completely obvious that ignores the fact that nobody is ever going to have access to an “audiophile” cable or dsl modem. Even if they did, this is one of the purest examples of it just being 1’s & 0’s.
The firehose of information coming out of a broadband connection has to be decoded and converted in so many ways before it ever reaches your device that thinking a fancy switch, or fancy Cat6 cables will do anything is complete hogwash.
To make the point stick, I’d be willing to bet my house and both vehicles that nobody on this forum could reliably identify network components like these in a double blind test.
That’s just the breaks man, like it or not. |
That’s cute Steakster, but you’re high if you think that true. |
I think what fascinates me most about this particular phenomenon, which is exhibited by some (not all) members of this community, is that in order to really be into this world you have to have some dough. And generally speaking, unless you’re a chinless wonder who inherited your money it takes a baseline level of intelligence to accumulate said money.
Where it all falls apart for me, is how obviously bright people can somehow shut off or disable their critical thinking skills and allow themselves to be taken on a magic carpet ride when I know they know better. |
Maybe you should look the term up before assuming, it’s a very specific call out. Or to put it your way, avail yourself of the wealth of knowledge available to you on the internet.
I sold HiFi for a long time and am still active in that community, I have a great appreciation for esoteric methods and gadgets that actually work.. Networking equipment doesn’t make the cut. |
I’d be interested to read the white paper that you refer to above. If we were discussing a network appliance that plugged in directly prior to the streamer and claimed to clean up noise, that’d be worthy of discussion, though I’d still be skeptical.
The lol-worthiness of my OP is that it’s a $450 switch, and as djones noted, switches don’t really do anything, nor does the manufacturer make any claims to that effect. |
If you’re referring to the USB “cleaners” like the iFi iPurifier, those have been analyzed by ASR and found to not only NOT do any cleaning, but actually added noise.
So, just saying “works great”, without providing any evidence isn’t going to work for me. |
Nah, believe it or not, I’ve been reading AudioGon for over a decade and just never posted. Definitely don’t see myself, or this post as making any kind of headway.
If you noticed above, Steakster not so subtly attempted to shame my peasant level Classe + JBL Synthesis 2-ch setup 😆. The vibe around here is very “Private County Club”, with a very defined pecking order based on the worst kind of implicit biases.
I imagine international readers routinely shake their heads in disbelief at just how thick the bubble is around the Gon.
I still enjoy it enough most days to keep coming back, so take the critique with a grain of salt. |
@three easy payments
Who knows, maybe they’ll be so ashamed that they’ll spend the money on useful upgrades, their wife/kids or.. idk, charity? |
In a double-blind test, it would be much more difficult to determine any improvement with an upgraded network switch with a system that was not optimized. Comparing a network switch is considerably different than comparing another component - such as a power conditioner.
And I’m asserting that no system, at any price, will make that $500 switch a worthwhile purchase. |
In the 21st century audio engineers build equipment while actively avoiding two of the most powerful tools available to the whole of science and engineering: measurement and error control. The damage to the audio industry and its reputation in the wider engineering world will remain immeasurable until we decide to take control. 💜 Bruno His amplifier designs and the THX AAA circuit topology are really the only unique things happening in the HiFi world worthy of note recently, imo of course. I also feel the need to push back aggressively on the preposterous assertion by a few people in this thread that “streamers” are somehow better than a PC based front end, with zero evidence of any kind being offered. The way I see this development is simple, I’ve been using a PC front end for 20-years, it was simply too difficult for the median age audiophile to assemble their own computer, configure the software, download the FLAC files and on top of that, there was no opportunity for you guys to get out your credit card and spend thousands on a shiny new box and get that dopamine hit. Some of you might take offense, but I’m sorry, streamers aren’t doing anything new, and they certainly don’t sound better in any demonstrable way than a middling PC setup connected to a good asynchronous DAC. I use a USB DAC with 116db SINAD specifically to ensure that my front end is outpacing the amplification it feeds in terms of noise floor. I know measuring things is frowned upon here, but I generally roll my eyes hard enough to do a mental backflip when people say things like Ethernet or WiFi is superior to async USB.. Based on what? |
Testing methodology? Pics? Were the PCs in question all properly configured and being fed power that had been through the line conditioning car wash? |
Robert, do you have any analytical comparisons you’d like to share of USB vs Ethernet vs WiFi, or are we just assuming USB is noisy because OMG PC’s are noisy? |
“Peace & Control”.
Please, Rix, if any of us were to actually listen and confirm these findings, WTF would we be listening for?
Don’t you see the problem with the use of these nebulous superlatives?
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Robert, no, I’m not an electrical engineer. I asked the question because I’m trying to separate peoples responses into a couple of buckets. One being “opinions and experiences worth taking seriously” and the other “crap I read in the comments section on Amazon and decided to parrot on AudioGon as fact”.
You’re in the former category. |
@steakster
How does my comment “say it all”?
How would you define “peace” and “control” in Audio terms. In a best case scenario, some reviewer may have previously described what these terms mean to them acoustically. In reality, nobody has any idea what the hell that means, or what that person experienced.
It’s why the scientific portion of this hobby matters, otherwise it’s all unsubstantiated claims and tomfoolery. |
@twoleftears
w-w-w-what do you do with those bowls? Salsa? Salad? Soup? Eccentric hat? |
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Upset.. You’re seeing the neutered version, I think I’ve had more of my posts here moderated than any forum I’ve posted on in the last 20 years.
As for limiting my media consumption to “cute stuff”, judging by how flimsy people’s confidence in their purchasing is around here, I think I’ve struck a nerve.
Though I don’t expect this thread to have any lasting effect, I do think it’s brought out some people with real technical expertise. Those individuals have tried (maybe in vain) to color in some missing details, which has power washed some of the snake oil that accumulated back into the drain where it belongs. |
