I have in no particular order: Bel Canto CD2/DAC3.5VBMkII, Ayon CD5S for one system (where I often compare the transport to the MacMini with Amarra/PureMusic via Weiss INT202 or WavelinkHS).
For DVDA/multichannel SACD, I have a regular Oppo 95 and Denon 4010 with DenonLink4 to a Denon AVR4810.
I also feed the optical out on the Oppo for stereo DVDA to my EMM Labs XDS1 which also handles stereo SACD duties.
I have also tested the Playback MPS5 and MPD3 which I liked a lot so have ordered an MPS5. |
Doggiehowser:
"Because I find DSD still sounds better than HR PCM and a spun disc still sounds better than computer based streaming to me."
I feel the same way. Not all share our opinion. What player or dac/transport are you using? |
Give me a player like the Cary 306 SACD Professional Version and I wouldn't care about the formats. With the format wars, there is no hope for us. |
I'd still much rather have a broadly available high Rez format that is 95% as good as sacd than a niche, audiophile format with no catalogue. Give me all mainstream released as downloadable high Rez flacs, and live concerts, classical and select other content as high Rez Dolby trueHD on BR discs and I'm a happy camper. |
I do have my share of Hirez PCM stuff but when I compare my DSD/SACD playback vs HR PCM, I still prefer a more "analog" feel to SACDs. |
And just to rant some more, the use of SACD really distances high-end sound from MP3, light years away to my ears. So if the manufacturers want to expand interest in high end sound, they should support this. Is Dave Wilson or anyone else out there listening? |
I guess my point was is that the entire High-End Audio manufacturing community just leaned on poor Sony to support SACD, and this was unfair. I think Sony deserved some support for this breakthrough technology, and some sort of manufacturing consortium or coalition is called for to keep it alive and get some great, historic, popular music transferred to SACD, just on principle if nothing else.
These companies spend so much on improving their own equipment, and things would often sound a lot better with Hi Rez. And these companies are not targeting Iphone people. |
The difference between encoded high rez PCM (which is what BR carries), and DSD is splitting hairs. |
I think what Phasecorrect is saying is that the new BD audio codecs actually only support the same "resolution" as a DVDA which is now "obsolete" and worse, was beaten by SACD. |
I was thinking that SACD was analogous to HDTV, but I guess not. |
Looking back...as someone who was initially very enthusiastic about the format...it just wasn't the quantum leap consumers were told...and on average mass market gear even less so...they attempted to establish the format with Dylan and Stones reissues...but backed of the marketing as not to confuse consumers...both these reissue series sound stellar in DSD and PCM...as both artists catalogs had not been remastered in any format for years...the first hurdle was getting past DVD- A which they did...but markets and technology change quickly...and with downloads, ipods, itunes, etc...and no video capabilities...SACD got left behind...ironically...blu ray...on the audio side...is very similiar to dvd a which sacd supplanted a decade ago...wow |
I suspect that SACD was created partially to introduce format that cannot be copied. Unfortunately greed killed it at the very start. Price of over $30 for SACD was about double of CDs while royalties and cost of manufacturing was about the same. Media itself is double layered, but it is only very small difference (less than dollar). Now prices are way lower but it is too late. People lost interest, I know I did. I remember this happening many times in the past with Beta VCR, Iomega Zip, MiniDisc etc. Good way to establish standard is to promote it with lower prices and advertise it. I don't remember seeing any ads for SACD while Iomega instead of promoting their ZIP media charged $10 a piece suing everybody else (involving international courts). I remember seeing one car radio with MiniDisc but now there is none. If it is perfect format for the car - much easier than CD, then why is it gone? Because greed kills.
Good example of greed is region code protecting DVD profits. Same DVD sold in US for $20 is sold by 20th Century Fox in China for $2 (they even admit making small profit there). That suggest 1000% profit here protected by region code (that they forced on manufacturers of the hardware)
Popularity of computer based music servers is final nail to the coffin of SACD that cannot be used with server at all. |
Because I find DSD still sounds better than HR PCM and a spun disc still sounds better than computer based streaming to me. |
Sacd has been out for a decade...so it had its chances...but for the average consumer...who listens to primarly mp3s it had little mainstream appeal...it will remain a niche market for those dedicated few... |
Why would anyone want to buy a dead end... SACD is a closed solution, you are stuck with no ability to do digital out for SACD resolution. No thanks, I'll buy the 192khz HD recordings on line, bypass SACD and take control of my electronic destiny.. |
Search SACD on amazon and you will find 4,000+ SACDs. Some regular CDs show up mixed in. 90% classical, 9% jazz, 1% popular and rock.
Also look at Acoustic Sounds for many SACDs.
SACDs are all "limited" editions so do not hesitate to buy or the title will vanish forever!
Customers have to support what may be the "last" physical Hi Rez format, for it to survive.
SACD is not DEAD! |
I think some AVRs do playback multichannel FLAC. I recall reading that some of the higher end Denons do.
Some media streamer players like Popcorn Hour also playback multichannel FLAC.
Oppo too
http://wiki.oppodigital.com/index.php?title=BDP-93_Media_Files_FAQ#Does_FLAC_support_mean_high-res_24-bit_FLAC_too.3F
Does FLAC support mean high-res 24-bit FLAC too?
Yes. 24-bit/192Khz (stereo) and 24-bit/192Khz (multi-channel). |
What are some options used to process downloadable MCH high-rez? |
Of this you must be sure, he was dead as as a doornail. |
This issue is not SACD /DSD per se. Blu Ray audio can carry encoded high rez multi channel LPCM audio that is sonically at par with SACD. Unfortunately, there appears to be little appetite for actually releasing much music only content on Blu Ray. The future is downloadable high rez, which will be 2 channel. The writing on the wall is labels like chesky releasing all their MCH high rez content as downloadable 96/24, as opposed to Blu Ray.
Only live concerts and classical will be released in MCH, mostly on BR video discs. |
Buconero117, Kinf of Blue is in fact out on SACD. |
@Vicdamone, I don't believe DSD is a supported codec on BluRay |
Far from dead. Check out the acoustic sounds website. As an example, they offer 168 SACDs in hybrid multi-channel alone of all genres. That's just one type of SACD. It is my understanding that it's not just a matter of creating SACDs from existing music but that the original artits or whoever owns the music copywrites have to grant permission to have their original recordings remastered in SACD. Some will allow them to be remastered in 2 channel only and others will allow multi-channel. Has to do with how the music was originally meant to sound. |
there are some audiophile labels which issue sacds on a regular basis--mostly classical.
for example, linn, alia vox, bis and pentatone.
acoustic sounds issues jazz and classical.
i would conjecture that you would be able to find sacds on amazon. |
Is there a reason SACD's can't be poped out on BluRay? |
Chayro, your answer is to buy a Oppo 95 and have it modded with the tube mod by modright. The total cost for this and the player is about 2500.00. This will sound fantastic with SACD and regular cd's. I have compared this player to the Playback Desighn which sells for 15,000.00 and the Oppo trounced it. |
To the OP, I've been buying up DVDA and SACDs including some OOP titles for the last year or so. The most expensive disc I've ever bought is actually not an SACD but a 1:1 Direct Cut CD from Yes Asia :)
But honestly, you can find a lot of SHM SACDs from Japan (look at CD Japan or Amazon JP or HMV Japan). I am more likely to go broke than run out of titles to buy. Just some of the albums I've gotten include new releases of old albums from Dire Straits, Queen, Stevie Wonder, Diana Krall. I've also gotten some recent titles from Warner Japan (Hybrid SACDs) and MoFi US. |
rgs92, there is a ton of classical on SACD, also downloadable dsd may breath some momentum here.
I think its a niche market for a certain group. I've done several trails and hi rez digital can quite hold up a spinning disc on a quality transport..at least that's what my ears here in my system. However you can get VERY good digital via hi rez down load for a very reasonable price. I suspect the technology will move fast on computer audio...
fyi http://www.dcsltd.co.uk/page/newsevents?p=news (see the dsd over usb article) |
http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=SICP-10083
This one? |
Not until they release Miles/Blue on SACD. It has been long promised, but never appears. My guess is that it would sell over a million copies, a breath some life into the format. |
Everything good in audio has been or is being killed off by 'audiophiles.' They are the worst thing that ever happened to the music business, music lovers and the gear used to reproduce music in the home. I advise everyone to get the excellent moderately price gear that still remains while you still can, and get backup! |
It depends on how well they sell. If Analogue Productions and MoFi make good money from their SACD efforts we'll see more of them. I don't see why they can't crank them out like they do in Japan. There has to be some DSD equipment sitting around unused.
Wish You Were Here seems to have sold a bunch but there are few albums that can sell like that one based on the promise of improved sound quality.
I don't think the Beatles will be reissued again. It's such a huge undertaking and I think the families may be satisfied that they have enough money after the last reissue. |
It's probably worth it for someone with a player like yours, but for me, I just couldn't find a SACD player that I felt got the most out of standard CDs, I got up to about the 5K range and decided to stop chasing hi-rez. Plus, in so many cases, the original recording was done in 16/44, so it doesn't really matter if you're buying the SACD, multichannel aside, of course. But for guys like you and people who own DCS and high-end Esoteric, SACD can be great. There's tons of them out there, especially if you listen to classical music. Then again, some companies are recording with DSD, but releasing in redbook. |
Forget SACD. Much to my regret the format is dead. You can take some comfort in the fact that high-rez computer based audio will be taking off in a big way. Unfortunately no multi channel of course, but two channels of SACD level quality/resultion will be broadly available. |
