Levy03 is spot on. For an example we need not look further than today's paper. Just look for events in Norway. |
"Man is kind enough when he is not excited by religion." Mark Twain
In some cases the same could be said of over-stimulation by drugs & alcohol. However with or without the booze & drugs the artistic temperment has its own imperative. It's foolish to confuse the creator with his/her creation or to boycott same for a defect of character. RIP AW. |
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As an atheist and a Winehouse fan I find the inappropriate eruption of superstitious religious asshats in this thread absolutely amazing, although I'm hoping it's merely black humor/parody, as distasteful as that may be. |
Sad to say ... it was not unexpected |
May she rest in peace. And, may her family be granted peace and comfort, now and throughout the rest of their lives. |
It is truly a terrible misfortune but as we have seen, the drive and creativeness of many artists is often fueled with drugs and alcohol. Many artists talk about long periods of intense expression and writing while hammering heroin and coke. The fame, fortune, and attention that we bestow on them only makes matters worse.
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These interdependencies extend from artists into other human endeavors and deserve a more nuanced perspective than most are willing to consider. A recent study of Freud and the pioneering surgeon William Halsted gets to the point.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/books/review/an-anatomy-of-addiction-by-howard-markel-book-review.html?_r=1&ref=books
Best to reserve judgment to oneself. |
According to police officials in London, the autopsy performed on late singer Amy Winehouse (who passed away Saturday at the age of 27) returned inconclusive results, and no cause of death has yet been established.
They are now awaiting the results of toxicology tests, the results of which should be back in two to four weeks. Since police have determined there was no foul play involved in WinehouseÂ’s death, her body was released to her family shortly after the conclusion of the autopsy. Her parents are reportedly planning on a private family memorial for her as soon as possible, perhaps as early as tomorrow.
Fans continue to gather at the makeshift memorial set up for Winehouse across the street from the home where the Grammy-winning singer lived. Her father, Mitch Winehouse, addressed the crowd and thanked them for their outpouring of support. “Amy was about one thing and that was love,” he told the group. “Her whole life was devoted to her family and her friends and to you guys as well. I can’t tell you what this means to us. It really is making this a lot easier for us.”
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I am going to pay my respects with some flowers, not drink or cigarettes, as some people have been leaving with the flowers and cards. She lived just a stones throw away from my family. |
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You guys are an odd bunch. To get so worked up that some found her
death predictable, her attitude and arrogance about drug abuse foolish
and disgusting, and her career more hype than talent is really wehere
the trouble is. Whats too much for you folks? Who is a fool if not her,
who is not a victim if she is? People can be sad or mad so let all be
heard. Some think this post will be stupid, some think those who are sad
are stupid, its a big tent with many opinions and if you have witnessed
suicide or the downward spiral of drug abuse some take a path of
compassion and forgive all actions. Some get mad at the pointless loss,
the weakness of the addict and the pain it leaves behind.
When she popped up on the sad music scene if at first somebody didnt
know her by name it was quickly followed with something to the affect of
"you know, that junkie chic that sings about not going to
rehab". Now thats a great claim to fame!
I dont feel bad or sad, she doesnt deserve it. She celebrated her drug
infested life and went rehab to help her bank account by getting her
image upgraded. She didnt respect the gift of life, her extreme luck in
music (yes I am saying she was pretty average in talent) so why bother
respecting her? She ruined her family, friends and some fans with
eternal sadness so why would you celebrate that and be so ready to
lecture those who see her and this event for what it actually was?
She was just another spoiled brat who bought into the hype of those
who kissed her ass, now can we move on with life, we value it. Cheers |
One thing is certain- this subject and the passions it inspires will quickly fade, and Winehouse will be resigned to distant memory.
That is how life works, it has always been that way, and it always will.
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Yup, her music wont last cause it was just pop fad. We wont be talking about her in 20yrs for sure. Wait we might when and if a song of hers pops up and it will go something like this "isnt that the junkie chic that died?" cause thats about the sum of her. Cheers |
True she had a derivitive, stylized voice but she could.carry a.tune...became a hardcore junkie which is en vogue in certain circles like london...she seemed like a trendy, posuer type you encounter in any big city |
So true, so true and that makes her even more pathetic not to mention less sympathetic. Bravo cause thats brilliant! |
I disagree. She will be remembered for her early death -and- for her talent. All music is derivative, she was recognized in the music industry as someone who brought back a sound reminiscent of the great acts of the 60s with her own twist. She said pop had become corporate cookie cutter acts, and as always it had. Her work was well respected in the music industry. She had a big impact. Mick Jagger invited her on stage. Mark Ronson did not choose to produce her last album because he thought she was an also ran flash in the pan.
People close to her all speak of her highly, we only saw the worst of her. Addiction is like drinking from a well and falling in. For the rich and famous, the mouth of the well is huge and the edge is slippery. No excuses, but she was just a human being exposed to temptations few could imagine. I don't remember hearing anyone speaking of Joplin, Hendrix or Morrison in such derogatory way (I'm not comparing their talent). I'm not surprised that many people have no sympathy for her, it,s human nature. But she did live in a world completely alien to what most of us know.
She might not have been a towering iconoclast, but dismissing her as just another no talent junky is just wrong. |
"Addiction is like drinking from a well and falling in."
Blkadr- that's a very good description. |
Agree with Blkadr on every point. The expression of so much animus toward this artist says more about the scourging effect of tabloid media than anything else. Moveover extreme animus often suggests that something really original and interesting (and controversial) is actually going on, as is amply demonstrated by
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LTPRJqt2z4
You have to be a deaf and blind monkey fart not to appreciate the mature creative synthesis of pop, jazz and musical history at work.
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Well good point so for the record I had no sympathy for that pig Joplin or Morrison. Hendrix was tragic and I did try to understand Kurts suicide.
Thanks for reminding me. |
Each other is the best gift we have in this life .. and we are all fallible. |
True but Morrison, Joplin and Whinehouse all celebrated and championed their destructive lifestyle. Life is a gift and to throw it away is terrible so they got their wish. Perhaps it makes life for those of us who respect it a better place with these folks gone. |
I see nothing admirable about her and IMHO she had zero talent.
Still, she was a fellow human being who does deserve our prayers and compassion. |
Boy, the effect of Rupert Murdoch and Roger Ailes is clearly seen in this thread, isn't it. (That's a social comment)
Can you imagine what would happen to your music collection if you took out every performance, every composition where at least some of the artists involved got drunk or stoned once in a while? (That's an appeal to the selfishness of some of the hateful types that have posted here)
If you feel hate towards an addict, my best advice is to get yourself some therapy. The hate is inside of you, and it is damaging you and your loved ones. Oh and stop listening to Murdoch flunkies, it is damaging to you and your loved ones. Get thee to your neareast mirror and repeat the hateful stuff you say and look at yourself as you say it; repeat until you do not like to look at yourself saying that stuff, then you will see yourself as most people see you. |
Chad, Joplin was a truly tragic tortured figure. She was quite insecure and conversely played out a role to cover up her perceived shortcomings. She couldn't conceal it in her performance, I saw her in 1969 and to this day I never saw a performance where an artist beared her soul for all to see in such a heart wrenching way, it was so tragic and sad to watch. I really was in tears during the performance, you could FEEL the pain she was in. She really was a quite complex person, extremely intelligent, well read but rarely revealed this side of herself. It seems her drinking and outrageous behavior was to cover up her personal issues, really sad man.
We can only speculate about what led Amy down her self-destructive path. Much has been written but who but those close, if even they, knew what was in her heart and mind to make the choices she did. What is indisputable to me is that she DID have an original talent which I discovered a few years back watching some of her youtube performances after reading so much about her personal problems. What is so tragic to me is that she didn't make it past this self-destructive period in her life, some do, many don't, it is just such a total waste witnessing this play out again and again.
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Murdoch and Roger Ailes have something to do with this?
Man that's a reach there dude.
And people wonder why the political climate is so hostile :) |
Should have, would have, could have. Pretty much sums it up.
There, but for the grace of God, go I. |
Sad to say ... it was not unexpected...
May she rest in peace. And, may her family be granted peace and comfort, now and throughout the rest of their lives...
Best to reserve judgment to oneself...People close to her all speak of her highly, we only saw the worst of her. Addiction is like drinking from a well and falling in. For the rich and famous, the mouth of the well is huge and the edge is slippery...dismissing her as just another no talent junky is just wrong...so much animus toward this artist says more about the scourging effect of tabloid media than anything else. Props to Trelja, Blkadr, Dgarretson. Nice to see that the community has steered this thread back to the high road. I am going to pay my respects with some flowers...She lived just a stones throw away from my family. Thanks, Gawdbless. Add a bunch from the 'goners across the pond (& pm me if you'd like some help defraying costs. |
Trej, you cant be serious and if you are I am glad we are likely to never meet because to blame those two men or even bring them up as some sort of connection shows your in need of serious mental help. I can only pray when you snap you dont hurt anyone.
There is a difference between the helpless and clueless, its not a shame to battle addiction, it is to celebrate it like some badge of honor and if you cant wrap your head around that, oh wait your too busy putting the blame on FOX news so how could I be so stupid to think you can?
I wish you well in your recovery. Cheers |
Flowers already delivered.
The tv were interviewing her backing singers, and they are devastated that she has past away. They could not be of more praise for Amy and were in tears and they say there is not a nicer person you could meet(are you reading chaznliz?). There was no airs and graces about her, she actively encouraged them to take centre stage and treated them as the equals that they were.
The end of a personal relationship can have (as in this instance) have disastrous effects on ones mental health,
and can cause us to act irrationally, unless of course you are, the righteous and utterly divine chadnliz!LOL |
Thank you for the update Godbless, and for giving us all a first hand account of the love felt towards her and by her, it tilts the balance away from superficial speculation, a good thing. |
Paid backing singers saying great things about the boss on TV while obviously looking for a job? SHOCKING! |
Amy Winehouse had more fun, and achieved more in her 27 years than the assholes on this forum will achieve in 20 lifetimes, and I'm gone; 10 four, over and out forever. Did you hear me "Shit house and Gutterphile". |
Cynic Chadnliz knows that Amy Winehouse was totally incapable of forming real emotional relationships and attachments, and any expressions by those close to her are obviously contrived for purposes of material gain. Reminding us that any "hardcore junkie" is actually a 2 dimensional cardboard cut out, not a human being.
Oh to have such insight! |
What a thread - I think the saddest part of this whole exercise is to see that it is difficult for some to be empathetic, to be appreciative, to be caring, and to be respectful of the other members of our collective species whether they be a fallen artist or an online neighbor.
“Have compassion for all beings, rich and poor alike; each has their suffering. Some suffer too much, others too little.” |
thanks for all the great music Amy, RIP. "they cannot tolerate our minds" & that's okay too |
Go to any respectable jazz club.and you will.her.a female.vocalist doing the billie holiday type of thing...they dressed amy up.with some modern beats and then had her play the victim/martyr card...whoopeee...sorry...doesnt have much staying power...too contrived |
Phase, thats another great point but dont step on the sad toes here as its only ok to participate if you agree with them. |
Enter Phasecorrect with more of the same drivel. What IS wrong with some of you?!! Is it that you've all been kicked around some?!? Did Amy Winehouse suffer from an oft times fatal and progressive Disease?...Disease being the operative word folks. Yes she did. And did she display behavior that was at times embarrassing and offensive? Yes she did. More often than not what we saw was the fallout of the disease. Did she bring her tragic fate upon herself? I guess one could say that she did. Does that make her any less of a human being who carried many of the contradictions that most of us as fellow human beings carry ? No. Things are not black and white, and cut and dry as many of you would believe. She certainly doesn't deserve to be trashed as many of you have done. I'd like to remind the religious among us that Jesus would not approve. |
Well what started out as RIP tribute to a fallen human being has encompassed it all, religion, politics, name calling and sadly enough, by some a lack of demonstrable understanding of the meaning of the words civility, respect and compassion. A reflection of the building tension and division in our society maybe? When we stop caring for each other as individuals and collectively, and feel free to say whatever pops into our heads with thoughless abandon all the while smug in our convictions that whatever we want to say is ok without consideration for others, we all lose. We'll all get what's coming to us for sure, not just Amy. I am really surprised at the hard boiled callousness demonstrated, particularly on a thread such as this where we should be coming together, the irony. |
Disease? You go buy booze and drugs,not contract them. |
You guys once again confuse the helpless with the clueless. It would be different if she was a quiet addict like Kurt Cobain or Layne Staley, or the likes of Keith Moon who were sadly reckless. Here is where she runs a far different track from those, she celebrated it and pretty much made her fortune for being a junkie. Thats nothing to celebrate or give sympathy for so spare me of your little pointing finger of shame, point it where it belongs, at her or in your mouth to shut you up. It does not has not and will never bother me that you dont like my opinion but you will hear/read it as this is what these forums are all about.
Hugs not drugs ;) well a little weed never hurt! Cheers |
Tubegroover-
I believe the anonymity of the web has greatly heightened the lack of civility.
I see it on every forum I'm on, be it music, technology or politics. And it's not just one side spewing the vitriol. The liberals and conservatives throw equal amounts of rhetoric without thought.
People have access to greater enlightenment than any generation to date, but enlightenment is becoming more rare.
Oh well- listen to some great music! |
and that's what it is Tubegroover...a sign of our times. i wouldn't single out tension and division, as that's always been present. it's the lack/deterioration of civility that is the sign of our times. a judgmental arrogance that seems to be worsening by the day. seems being "online" makes it even worse. it's easy to say something online that you'd never have the balls to say in person. ask yourself this...if a-gon was a a physical place that we all got together at...would this be happening?. sure, a few would express their negative comments but i doubt it would have digressed to this level?. lots of brave people online =)
personally, i never liked her music much. her lifestyle turned me off as well. she was a sick person who couldn't get well. i posted a reply in the other RIP thread before this one took a nosedive. i called it "a slow moving train wreck" *with* an RIP, out of common decency and respect. you don't have to like someone to do that. it's called being part of the human race. many in "our times" don't want to be a part of the human race anymore. it's about "me" and those who agree with "me". being about "me" isn't all bad imho. it's the "against them" part i object to.
i can easily tolerate alot of this stuff. what pushed me over the edge was someone dragging religion into the mix. although i have a deep belief in "god", me a "religion" have problems ;-)
free speech is awesome. you CAN say whatever you want and express your opinion. however there are times i question should you? and why would you?. and if you have to...why can't you do it respectfully.
cheers |
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No one argues with your right to have an opinion about Winehouse's talent, even if it goes against most reviews, and comments from performers and other professionals in the music business. And you have every right to have a negative opinion about her lifestyle, and to prefer "quiet addicts". What puzzles me is the need to express such negative views in such a vitriolic manner on a thread titled "Amy Winehouse RIP". |
What better time to talk about her death then when it actually happened? I never to my knowledge said she shouldnt rest in peace,I simply said she was a arrogant junkie of mid level talent when she was alive. You think I wouldnt debate this in public? Think again.
To suggest many wouldnt say alot of things in public suggests what? Does that mean verbal debate wouldnt be tolerated? Does it hint some would get physical about not being agreed with? If thats the case (and I have known some of these types) then these people are far more ignorant than any valid opinion backed with reason in debate because when these folks lose a arguement they shut down their brains and try to muscle their point, thats true weakness.
I listed why her and others deserve IMO no sympathy while others in similar boat do deserve some pause but some of you cant come to grips with that. Some evoke God and FOX news aswell showing a clear loss of touch with reality. Cheers |
Why would anybody require "empathy" for self destructive drug use, unless they were doing the same, much less guilt trip somebody for not "empathizing" with same?
Compassion for suffering does not mean in any way that one should approve of the dysfunctional choices of the sufferer or romanticize them or even excuse them.
Live fast, die young and leave a beautiful corpse. I guess two out of three aint' bad.
As somebody said on another board, celebrities are "tortured" and have "demons." Everybody else are just crackheads, drunks and junkies.
I prefer to remember the pretty, plump teenager with the promising voice, not what she became. |
just because someone is a self-destructive junkie does not preclude them the following:
* loving others
* being loved by others
* being compassionate to others
* receiving compassion from others
anger, sadness, frustration, resignation--all normal responses.
callousness, insults and cynicism all reflect on the author more than the deceased.
think about the corpse you'd leave behind...and if folks read your writings on this board at your wake. some folks have a lot to be proud of (eg: tubegroover, gawdbless---hope you guys have kids, planet needs them), while some of you, well, hope you reconsider... |
Read the first ten words of my last post. I never said it is my place to "tolerate" or not. Just that it is poor taste and bad form. This thread was obviously started for members to show their respects concerning the death of a human being.
Maybe you should start a new thread "Talentless Junkies Deserve No Respect" and anyone who likes that sort of thing could join on in. Unlike you, I would choose not to and respectfully decline to participate. |
