All-in-one integrated, 10-15K range, class A/B only
For a second system. I want to buy a SS all-in-one integrated. At least 200W in 8ohm.
When I say all-in-one means it has to have DAC built-in (preferable a very nice DAC commensurate to the price point of the system). I would highly prefer a streamer built-in as well.
Am super excited about the new Boulder 866. It seems to be the only one satisfying all the criterion.
Another option could be the Accuphase E-800 with DAC module (but no streaming). DAG Progression but it crosses 18K without DAC.
Any other options? I am not interested in anything Class-D. It has to be Class A/B amplifier.
I recomend a hegel h390 and dCS Bartok. Slightly over the price but this combo is incredible. I am waiting to hear the D’agostino progression integrated but it is $23k and I am not sure how that dac implementation will sound.
I currently use a Hegel H360 and Bartok paired with the Magico S1MKII. I would choose your speakers first and then find the electronics to pair with them.
Personally, I would consider a Luxman L-509X or L-590AXll integrateds. Fabulous performance for their price point (<$10k) Do have a look at the Luxman web site. 🇦🇺
Have you listened to the Anthem STR integrated if not try to find a dealer that you can demo one at, you will be surprised how well it sounds and the DAC inside is also up to the task, plus it comes with ARC room correction.
Two products I have either auditioned or own a member of the same family. The Gryphon Diablo 300 (300w @ 8 ohms/600w @ 4 ohms) is above your price range and DAC module is extra, but perhaps you can find a dealer demo. Mark Levinson 585.5 (200/400w) is just slightly above your budget. I auditioned the former with entry level Magico speakers and the sound was highly neutral, clear and detailed with black background and good imaging. I own a Levinson dual monaural power amplifier (250/500w) and have loved it for years. I recommend you try to listenIng to the same speakers (preferably in the same room) with any amps you consider so you can identify the difference in the amps rather than speakers or room. You have received several other good suggestions.
I was contacted by someone via private message who recently purchased a 866 and replaced a Gryphon. He or she may or may not post but that is high praise. Once again, there is some great gear out there and so many are upping their game to compete. We end users are the beneficiaries.
It will be interesting to see what comes in both the marketplace and the fallout of the Covid-19 related disruptions. The Boulder is pretty special, whether it floats anyone's boat is the fun of this hobby.
A lot at this price point, especially demo/pre-owned. Vitus RI-101 a must listen at your upper price range, it has a DAC/streamer option. Gryphon 120 or 300 are also solid choices.
I’ve only read one review on the Mac, and it didn’t sound great either, but was just listi g for the OP. After the gushing review I first read on the Hegel, I went to look for more, as you never know if they could be a fan boy as you suggested. I found quite a few, some English, an Australian one, a few in the US , and they all seemed to say the same thing, when it’s that overwhelming I start to take notice. It sounds like the Dac alone is worthy of the price of admission, and the rest was equally as good. The one thing they did all ding it one, is a look that matched the price, the painted logo and same look they use on their lower priced models didn’t give an image of luxury, but in the end the sound is all that matters. Not as much WAF involved with an amp as there is with speakers.
You misinterpreted my post. I'm not saying Hegel can't hang, they very well might be able to. The most glowing review of the Hegel 590 (I think it was soundstage but I dont remember) I saw came from a reviewer who already owned a 390 and also had a Hegel dac. I remember thinking to myself that that was probably the right guy for Hegel to get to review the 590 amp so he could communicate the differences. I also remember thinking to myself that I hoped he wasn't a "captive" reviewer...natural jump to a conclusion. Likely unfair on my part.
Listen, I hope the Hegel is great. I too was trying to answer the OP's question and was trying to do it from a position of this is what I've personally experienced. I have heard the McIntosh and summarily dismissed it. It was not very good and the dac section is, well, just meh. I made an incorrect assumption that you had heard the Hegel and the McIntosh because you were listing them as alternatives and since I had heard the McIntosh and it sounded mid-fi, I unfairly lumped in the Hegel. My bad.
I’m talking about professional reviewers, not owners. It’s amazing how people will demean the professional reviewers as just paid advitisers, but now people who own them ( which I have not looked at any of those yet) are fanboys. It makes it seem like there’s an agenda and that a company that normally dosnt play in that price point shouldn’t be allowed. Their status image isn’t up to snuff. I listen with my ears. I don’t buy status. The names you mentioned have indeed earned their status and recognition, but that dosnt mean a lessor know player can’t also. Unless having heard those products, I’m not sure how such a statement could be made. I have not heard most of those first hand. So I cannot make judgement directly, only trying to respond to the ops question, and I enjoy learning about the products, so I’ve read up on most of the ones posted here and just noticed the great feedback from the Hegel.
Indeed the Hegel has been getting some good reviews from the Hegel owners. The 390 is supposed to be a really fine amp/dac, especially at the prices you see them discounted at both new and preowned. The 590 had better be good at $11k. The strongest reviews seem to be from the reviewers who already own Hegel, which can be a strong statement or a channel, depending on perspective. There is some great gear being made and designed throughout the world and I'm certain the Hegel falls into that camp.
Until you hear the Vitus, the Nagra, the Gryphon and then the Boulder...the refinement is just there. The elegance is just there. It does come at a price but to many its worth it. I don't know if Hegel really knows how to play in the 5 figure game yet, we will see. Go hear all of the aforementioned amps, no matter what you buy, its really amazing what is available today in high quality gear.
Been reading reviews on the ones people have been posting about here and that Hegel seems to really be getting the best reviews, sounds like they feel the dac in it alone justifies the price. Not a brand I’ve heard about until more recently, may need to check that out myself
No offense intended but the McIntosh and the Hegel, while fine pieces, are not in the same zip code as the Boulder. The Boulder 866 could have been priced at $20,000 for the analog version and $25,000 for the dac version and the reviewers would still crow about it. Its that good. Its a good thing Boulder doesn't change models very often, it will probably take them several years to work through the order backlog once people get a chance to hear it.
The Boulder is exceptional. Before I demoed the 866 I was predisposed to not like it as I was never impressed with the 865 (no offense to anyone who liked the 865, it just was too dry for me at the time I demoed it). I compared with Pass Int250, Lux 509x and my brief demo of a Gryphon was good but not enough to make me pull the trigger but that was over a year ago. I have also owned the Nagra Classic Integrated late last year, it is also superb. All these are superb integrateds but the Boulder was clearly superior to my ears. Maybe its my ears coming around to Boulder rather than Boulder evolving, I don’t know, but it is an exceptional integrated amp and that’s from a highly biased tube lover. I ended up buying it. It replaced an ARC Ref5SE/Ref75se in a second system driving Wilson Sasha 2. All transparent Gen 5 ultra cabling.
The Dac section I ordered as an "oh I might want it someday when I’m between dacs" kind of decision. I was biased that it would be so-so and a convenient bridge as we roll through dacs from time to time. I was dead wrong. It is really, really a nice dac! You would need to spend $3-5k or more to achieve the level of performance and even then, it would likely just be different and not necessarily better. Some of the finer points though on the dac section: The streamer is killer, there is no USB b port so you arent able to stream from a server via usb. It is not yet a roon endpoint (upnp presently is the only option), they are presently in the certification stage. The aes-ebu input is very nice, I havent tried the other inputs or direct attachment of external usb media. I use Mconnect hd to stream qobuz and its very, very nice. I have an Innuos Zenith MkIII running roon core but it is presently only utilized to stream to my external Aqua dac.
The remote control is via an iPad app or an optional remote via a usb dongle. Both work well.
Overall, I am thrilled with the purchase. There is so much great gear out there and you would likely be happy with any of a handful. If I didn’t already own some really good dacs, I wouldn’t necessarily feel the need to buy one. Dacs on hand: Lampi Amber 3, Aqua La Scala Optologic MkII. Former dacs: Chord Dave, Nagra Classic Dac, Lampi Golden Atlantic, Totaldac D1Tube, etc.
The dac in the 866 is terrific. The amp is terrific. It is like an ingot of aluminum. Build quality is very high. All the burbling of the look of the heatsinks is BS. The amp is to0 beautiful to tuck away unless you live in a lavender Victorian....then, the amp deserves to be shielded from the Victorian aesthetic to perform it best (LOL).
In summary, this is the first integrated amplifier that I’ve heard that is reasonably priced that will seriously leave you wondering why you feel the need for separates. The Boulder may not be for you but I assure you, it will be a major hit for Boulder. And thats coming from someone who was Boulder agnostic before experiencing the 866 for myself. Demo a number of different amps and buy the one you like.
@david_ten agreed. That’s why I found the Boulder 866 very intriguing because according to the only review out there for it. The DAC within it is not a compromise. Whereas with other all in ones, you might compromising on the dac/streamer big time.
@onhwy61 thanks. Didn’t realise it read like that. Still don’t think there was a need for those comments.
what I meant was my budget was 10-15k and it could be lower of course but didn’t believe I could get something as good as a boulder 866 for a lower price than 10k. but who knows, hence the whole point of the post. if I can Spend less why wouldn’t I? It doesn’t make sense that anyone would think like that.
I felt the same way about class D..until I heard the Mola Mola Kalugas. The Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC is amazing..so I would not rule out the new Mola Mola Integrated with internal streamer and DAC and Phono option. Ken
The problem with how the OP stated his question is that he specified a price floor. It reads that he won't consider products that cost less than $10k. Why? I don't know. Is that amount some magical demarcation line of quality?
@essrand I realize this is for a secondary system, however, at the price point you've stated, something has to give. And that something will be the DAC module (most likely). Adding a streamer only complicates this equation by adding another (compromised) variable.
I'd personally approach this with the "all-in-one" component as the Source to Pre component. For example, the Lumin X1.
In keeping with your pre+amp approach, Vinnie Rossi's L2i comes to mind, but it is above your budgeted amount. He offers a DAC module but that takes the overall cost north of 20K new.
Throwing this into the mix, on the off chance it applies, since your speakers are TBD...and this is a secondary system...
Significantly under budget, intriguing and a very different type of All-In-One is Buchardt Audio's new A700 or A500 with Hub.
@essrand Agreed on the distasteful comments about price range, as if only morons would possibly shop for products that cost 10-$15K. I wish people would keep their sense of value to themselves - it's quite off-putting shaming someone who has a larger than average budget just as it is on the other end of spectrum when someone goes super frugal.
Has nothing to do with finances, or getting better deals, its about what integrated amps that are out there that I am missing to audition or consider.
If you really want to make snarky remarks about pricing, why don't you hang out in whitecamaross thread where he's buying $60,000 amps by the dozen :), I am sure they will appreciate your constructive comments as much as I do.
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