All-in-one integrated, 10-15K range, class A/B only

@rick2000 Im sure the Kora sounds nice, it just doesnt meet the requirements of the OP.

You could have had a Kora High Fidelity TB400. 

One of the best amps very few have heard

Congrats! An heirloom from day one. Enjoy.

@essrand

thanks for coming back to update us - the accuphase is a wonderful choice, definitely built for a lifetime, end game gear

enjoy

Just to update this thread.

I finally bought an Accuphase E-650. I got an home demo, and I was sold. It is the first "reasonably" priced SS amp that I really like.

It goes brilliantly with my Devore speakers, and at some point it might get another pair of speakers to play with (TBD, Fyne anyone?).

I did forego my pledge of an all-in-one, but if I get the DAC module (which I might, given how good the phono module is). It does become a proper all-in-one :), currently it is playing signals emanating from my Technics 1210gae and really killing it.

Seen from the other side of the pond, in this range and qualities, there is also the Mola Mola Kula with the built-in tambaqui…
great reviews from well known reviewers, the guarantee to have one of the best dac to counterbalance the possible flaws of class d…
I am really considering it along with the boulder 866 for my vivid g3 (I am willing to rationalize my stack of amps) without finding any reason to prefer one or the other « on paper » but they are not easy to listen to and even less in comparison…

One of the few pieces I regret selling was my Rowland Concentra II. They can be picked up used for pocket money

Don't laugh, and don't throw things at me, but seriously, listen to a Marantz PM-10.  It takes a VERY long time to break in, but at about 300 hours it goes from blah to absolutely amazing.  Retails for $8k, can get them new on eBay for way less than that.  

Just saying......

If you are interested in getting Magnepan, consider a Hegel H390/590. 
Built in dac but don’t think it’s a streaming dac. 

@caphill , speakers are tbd as well, but I am leaning towards a magnepan.

@essrand 

what are your speakers? 

@denon1, have you also heard the accuphase E-650?

How dare you!  haha

I totally agree with Riaa. A lot of people listen to this guy Jay (WC) who is quite entertaining, but he changes a gear more often that I change my sucks. He does not burn it long enough and always mix and match. I had all 3 integrated in my house at the same time. Luxman 509x, Luxman 590axII  (both well burned) and new (about 25 hours on it after my initial burn) Accuhase E-800. To my ears the luxman 509x is good but nothing special still has that typical class A/B sound that is at the higher volumes becomes harsher. The luxman 590axII is a real gem for the price. Tonal colors, micro details, sweet highs and bass are very good. I liked it much better than 509x. After burning new accuphase E-800 for 25 hours, I could not wait anymore and decided to give it a try. All I can say this is a sound I was after all these years. Meat with details. Tonal colors are outstanding, dynamics, texture all are on a different level from luxman integrates. But most amazing for me is the bass this integrated produces. I never heard that deep tight textured bass form my Sonus Faber Amati Tradition. And they say that accuphase needs long time to burn. So I expect it to be even better within couple months. Is that the best integrated on a market. Of cause not. Its all matter of what we like and what and how we listen.  Bottom line one has to listen with his own ears and read other opinions as information only. We all have different preferences and taste. Now wait, this post will get removed, because I praised accuphase over luxman. 

Thanks. I suppose why audiophiles swear by class A is because of the smoothness. I read they do not prefer A/B because of the "noise" that they hear (or could it be caused by the "definition" and clarity?). In theory, no recording is perfect and so maybe with the higher definition, they are hearing the noise from the recording and not really the noise from the amp?

I've heard the 509x (A/B) and it sounds nice. Have not had a chance to hear the 590axii (A) yet.

I am no expert, but dynamics is more to do with clear delineation across various dynamic spectrum of sound (soft to all the way up to loud notes). Little bit more analytical and may be more definition of every spectrum. Yes, musical is very smooth, without much emphasis of clear distinction of various notes. Just melowy and emphasis on high and mids. 

Trying to decide between the 509x vs the 590axii. What does more dynamic sound means vs more musical? I guess more musical means it's more smooth and flows nicely?

You should audition Luxman 509 or 590axii.
I was also looking initially for all in one and hence bought Naim Nova. I was running (still run sometimes for a change) my aerial acoustics 7T with Naim Nova. I love them and still have it, probably will keep it. I recently bought Luxman 590axii, as I wanted more musical class A tube like sound. They are end game amplifiers. They have not even broken and am already in love with it. They are different level all together. They are more than sufficient to power any speaker with decent sensitivity. Their rated 30 watts is very conservative. I am using Nova as streamer/DAC to Luxman 590axii. Eventually I might change Nova to reference quality streamer/Dac. I am now researching which streamer/DAC to buy. The idea of all in one is always intriguing but I am settling for streamer/DAC and integrated amp combo. Again, keep Luxman 509 (if you want more dynamic sound) and 590axii (more musical) in your list. 

If there is only one amp that hits all your boxes, then the choice is already made, ie, there is no choice, but only one option. So go ahead and swipe card. Why even bother discussing things.

But all these amp x is the best and most sublime, gods gift to mankind because its the most expensive...that is pure and utter BS. Most of us have no need to believe that because we don't drink that kool aid. This is similar to the review of Avik U380, a 40K class D amp which is god's gift to mankind, except it measured so bad in the bench that it was deemed broken in transport. Or that same designer's Raidho 2.5 way speakers costing $50,000. Getting stellar reviews by Absolute Sound. Yeah. Great stuff guys. I will buy a pair of $70,000 subwoofers to fill out the low end. And also buy $25,000 cables to "tighten" the sound signature.

@jo1mtb Hi and thats an excellent question. Its a difficult question because I heard them so far apart timewise. The 865 was a fine amp. At the time it seemed a little too chilly and clinical for me years ago. The Gryphon will find its audience and when I heard it it seemed a bit of a chameleon, maybe trying too hard to include some tube like cues. I wanted to want it but it just didn’t move me. The 866, for what it is, is simply amazing. As many of my posts indicate, I am biased toward tube amplification and am fortunate to have the room and the resources for multiple systems.

The Boulder checks all the boxes of the OP and the sound is sublime. If dead neutral is noon on the clock face and 11 oclock (warmer), the Boulder 865 would be at 2 oclock (cooler) to my ears, the 866 at 11. The Gryphon, I dont know maybe 10 oclock, maybe 11:30, its been too long. I believe though that if it had made a significant impression on me I would have bought it. I believe the DAC in the 866 is a real treat in this package. It is so well integrated, it performs far better than it has any right to and for many the 866 could be an end game piece. As Ive said before, and I realize I have a psychological problem in this regard, but somewhere in my house at all times there will always be a tube based system.

Another nice feature of the Boulder is the volume comes on ever so gently, maybe even too gradually for some. I would venture a guess to say that you could connect the 866 to horns and have tremendous range in the volume with an absolutely black background. How many of us have had systems where you maybe had usable volume range of only zero to 10 on your 100 step volume control and thats all? That isnt the boulder. On Sasha 2’s the listenable range for me is 40-65 and 70 is far too loud.

If you you like neutral with an ever so slight side dish of warmth, the Boulder 866 is the ticket. I find it humorous all the arguing over Luxman vs Accuphase vs Gryphon vs Pass vs whatever else. The Accuphase, Pass and Luxman don’t meet the OP’s spec qualifications and I find NONE of those in the same league as the Boulder. Some might prefer Gryphon, others the Boulder. Everyone should just go hear these amps for yourself, let your ears and your equipment align with your listening taste. The Boulder 866 isn’t quite as warm as the ARC reference separates it replaced but, given that I have tube based systems to listen to, I kindof feel like I have it all covered. I hope this helps.

Once again to the OP, listen to the choices out there and buy what you like, this is rarified air that you are flying in. Im not sure if things can get much better for an all in one streamer, dac, 200wpc at 8ohm that doubles into 4 ohms class ab amp than the Boulder. Listen, when you can afford to buy what you want, and at your budget you can, you should wait until you hear something that moves you.

At least audition the Hegel h590, it may surprise you...

@riaa, Those are the only two data points we have in these preliminary stages of narrowing down choices. Perhaps when you get your E-800 you can give us another opinion that will help make or break Greg/WC's consensus. Until then.....
The dealers have been hyping the E-800 so much and I was thinking of buying one to try, and then to hear sobering assessments of it from experienced audiophiles is clearly a shock and raison d'etre for forums like this to exist.

@kren006, yes he does clearly state he likes 590AXII better in one of his posts.

@rdoc Thank you so much for posting your experience and affirming what I have in mind. I know this might be asking a lot but any chance you would be able to post a youtube video of your system playing.

So let me get this straight. Because Greg didnt like the E-800 on his 40.2 and Jay didnt like them on his Wilson's....They Suck with everything? Do you have Jay and Greg's ears and taste in music? Do you have their room and associated equipment?? My best advice is dont follow anybody's ears but your own. You can find plenty of people who will give entirely the opposite opinion about that model (or any other) and what conclusion will you draw from that?? Whoever you like better or has a Youtube channel must be right?

Accuphase e480+dac card

He ran both the 590 and the E-800 on the Wilson Sashas. The Luxman had no problem w/the speakers. By the way he bought that Accuphase from someone I know that shops at my local dealer. He had the E-800 for 2 months w/Harbeth 40.2's. He went to the Luxman 900 separates and is quite happy.

I agree he panned the Accuphase and mentioned 12-14k but I don't remember him saying the Luxman 590 was better.  I'll have to rewatch to see if I missed that comment.

You can get the E-800 for 12-13K.  Problem with your "Messiah" is that he often pairs the wrong amps with the wrong speakers. Accuphase sounds best with Monitors like Harbeth, Tannoy, Graham, Proac, ATC etc....not humongous power hungry floorstanders from Wilson and the like.  He trashed the ARC 160M and all he tried it on was the NEOLITH speakers. DUH!!!! You will find plenty of people who like the Accuphase and 160M. 

I suggest you view the U-Tube Jays Audio Lab. Accuphase E-800 is it any good? He really pans the integrated. In fact he stated the Luxman 590 out performed it. Axiss Distribution the company that imports Accuphase prices the line way too high. Said the E-800 should be between 12-14K at the most. Also if you don't have highly efficient speakers it runs out of gas. 

@ghasley I'm getting ready to rebuilid my system after a move.  I may rebuild with ARC Ref (again, again).  But, I'm strongly considering the Gryphon Diablo 300. I had the Boulder 865 before and found it a bit dry/white, too. 
What where the pros and cons between the Gryphon 300 and the Boulder 866?  Thanks! 

Scratch that - a super integrated like the below fits all your requirements.

https://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/encore/m6-encore-225

If I were you I'd go Luxman 509x. Right at the bottom of your range. 

I am using my 866 driving Magnepan 1.7i's with a pair of REL Carbon Limited subs. They blend together seamlessly.  I have had several audiophiles over to listen extensively.  Non of them could hear any discontinuity between the Maggies and the REL's.  Being fed by a Rockna Wavedream Signature Balanced dac connected via I2S HDMI to the Rockna Wavedream NET, the sound is magnificent!  It is by far the best that I have had in about 50 years as an audiophile.  These comments have been echoed by the numerous listeners to my system with most shaking their head in disbelief of the beauty of the sound.

What do you guys think about pairing a Boulder 866 with a Magnepan? Like maybe a 20.7

Another vote for Luxman L-509X. Pair it with Lumin T2 or Aurender A10. 

The Luxman 509x is a fine integrated but it doesn’t meet the criteria of the OP. It is 120wpc and doesn’t have an inboard dac let alone an inboard streamer.

+1 for Luxman L-509X. It sounds amazing.

@ebm
are you just trolling as usual? Or can you find me an dac+streamer+amp+preamp+2 ICs +3 PCs under 15k retail that would beat a Boulder 866?

For 15k get separates amp and preamp.HELLO!!

@arro222 , it's not mentioned because it has no DAC/streamer built-in. 

@freediver , yes for me SS typically beats tubes almost always at a far lower cost, but for a second system I would like to try SS for its other benefits. But thanks for the info on the H590.

Well yesterday I had the chance to sit in the sweet spot between Harbeth M40.2 speakers driven by Hegel H590,cabled completely with some expensive Cardas cables in a dedicated room 20'x16'x10'..I'm sorry folks but my KT88 Cayin has more body,better defined imaging & WAYYY better staging,reaching deeper & farther outside the speakers...The SS rig just never disappeared the way my M30.1's do..

I am surprised no one has mentioned the Constellation series integrated amps.
Purported by some to be one of the finest sounding integrated amps out there. Within your 10-15K criteria.

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/constellation-inspiration-integrated-10/

A few clarifications about my hunt, based on some of the questions people have asked. I was thinking through it and came up with these.

Why only Class A/B?

I tried a Class D all-in-one, it didn't work out.

Why the price point 10-15K?

The above mentioned all-in-one was in the <10K range, so am curious, what refinements I can get outside this price point. I am sure there are many <10K that would beat that all-in-one, I haven't tried any or all of them yet. But that was why? Perhaps, I think, and some concur, at the 10K level, the league is different. I want to find out.

What Speakers?

I don't know yet. But I want the opposite of Devore O/96, current candidates are: Vivid (cheaper ones < 15K), Magico A series, Magnepan, Verity Amadis S (used only).

So I need a lot of power. My amp should be able to drive any of the above speakers comfortably. 

Thanks.

@fleschler


The VAC is a great amp. I’m sure the reason it wasn’t included or recommended is that it isn’t solid state and it doesn’t have a built in dac/streamer. Other than that....

Is there some reason slightly less expensive integrateds aren't mentioned?  The VAC 170IQ has 85 watts and if it sounds anything like VAC amps, should be outstanding at $10K.