Advice on Improving a Wifi-Mesh -> Ethernet Setup?

What Ethernet cable are you using?

@serancien   My Orbi Pro sits on an SR Tranquility Base (active and passive) as does the Keces Power Supply. Both the Orbi Pro and Keces are grounded. You don't mention the Orbi model, so I don't know how many ports it has. If you have an unused ethernet port, use that to ground the Orbi.  

1.  use a phone or PC based Wifi analyzer (free!) to ensure your wifi is strong and on a clean channel.

2. Treat your damn room appropriately.

Netgear has a robust network app and web interface. Alerts are automatically sent if there are any issues. 

I've noticed a significant jump using John Swenson's technique to "ground" the stock SMPS. The LPS provided further improvements but were not as dramatic as introducing the grounding adapter.

I am curious what "significant jump" or specific sonic improvements did you notice from grounding and then from adding the LPS, and what are you currently trying to improve that would have you consider replacing your Orbi system?  I have an Orbi mesh system too and I am not hearing or aware of any specific sonic problems as my system is quiet except for the music playing.  Is there a specific noise problem you are trying to overcome?  I own the ENO and Gigafoil as well as fiber/converters and the Bonn switch and none of those things make  a significant sonic difference in my system (i.e., it sounded good before installing them and it sounds just as good after).

@soix nothing exotic, Blue Jeans CAT6

@david_ten thank you for sharing, though the SR solution seems out of my price range right now. I do have a DIY grounding solution known as "battery ground tweak".

@mitch2 TBH I didn't expect much (if any) change from the grounding tweak. Most notable was the improved spatial information, followed by bass depth, decay, and clarity. I was hesitant to add more boxes to my system, but this experience piqued my interest in "optimizing" the network for streaming.

@serancien Sharing how I have my Orbi Pro setup was not a ’push’ to go down that specific product path ; rather, that isolation and grounding net results, given I am using the same brand Router/Satellite as you are.

Mirroring @mitch2 , I prefer to keep the chain as simple as possible. The Orbi Satellite directly feeds my server. Having said that, many have reported upsides by adding solutions in-between. Keep in mind that the cost of those approaches add up.

Are you using a stock/generic DC cable? If so, a custom aftermarket DC cable may deliver surprising improvements. Custom DC cable + grounded LPS + isolation/resonance control for the LPS. Trifecta.

The LPS provided further improvements but were not as dramatic as introducing the grounding adapter.

@david_ten I really appreciate your input, and I hope it didn't come out the wrong way. I have isolation bases similar to the Acoustic Revive TB-38H for my main components, and now I intend to get another one for my Orbi.  

I know this may sound crazy, but recently I upgraded my "real" router (one that connects directly to the modem) from a budget TP-Link to a $400 Nighthawk. And the change in SQ was not subtle. I find it mind-boggling, as it's not even physically connected to the streamer network, only the Orbi router. I'm tempted to power it with a quality LPS just to see what happens.

Are you using a stock/generic DC cable? If so, a custom aftermarket DC cable may deliver surprising improvements. Custom DC cable + grounded LPS + isolation/resonance control for the LPS. Trifecta.

I am! I can indeed do better than the stock DC cable. I should probably also give the LPS a better power cord.

@serancien   Not at all. 

I recently went from the older AC3000 Orbi Pro to the current AX6000 Orbi Pro.

I made the change for non-sound quality reasons. Every aspect of the chain was exactly the same, except for the old router/satellite being swapped out for the latest router/satellite.

The difference in sound quality was significant.

+1

I can indeed do better than the stock DC cable. I should probably also give the LPS a better power cord.

I have been moving some things around just to find out what will happen so may move my HD Plex LPS over to my router.  I have a smaller ifi filtered power supply (I do not believe their power supplies/adaptors are linear but they are filtered) that I can use on the Gigafoilv4 and the ENO doesn't need power.  I am currently using the HD Plex on the Gigafoilv4 because it is closest to my server.  As mentioned, the results of any of this have been so subtle as to make me wonder whether there is any effect whatsoever. 

Things that do make a noticeable difference include the upgrade I just made from a Mojo Audio EVO B4B21+ DAC to their EVO PRO DAC (a positive move - slightly better resolution and spatial information), and also I have compared running USB directly from my Mojo Audio Deja Vu server to the DAC vs. running Ethernet from the server to a separate Roon endpoint (either Metrum Ambre or Bricasti M5) and then AES/EBU or S/PDIF into the DAC.  The USB sounds better (slightly richer, tonally bolder, and more dynamic) but the server uses the well-regarded JCAT USB CARD XE so maybe no surprise there.

nothing exotic, Blue Jeans CAT6

I’ve read the Ethernet cable can make a significant difference, so I got a Wireworld Starlight 8 to go from my extender to my Zen Stream.  Haven’t had a chance to hook it up yet, but I’ll report back with findings.  Might be something for you to explore further FWIW.

Why would anybody think reclocking Ethernet would improve sq? Ethernet is not like usb and reclockers were gimmicks most of the time for usb 

@serancien 

Can you tell me more about John Swenson’s grounding tweak?  I seem to have missed that one.

Thanks.

@serancien @curiousjim I would like that Swenson SMPS info too. Thanks. 

Your Ethernet cables make a noticeable improvement ,the one at Ethernet switch

makesthe most difference , if you have a dac usb. Cable upgrade for sure,even powercords.

I use EERO mesh network and Network Acoustics Eno filter between the EERO and the streamer (Bricasti M3 DAC with network player).

I would advise tackling room acoustics first and foremost then upgrading the components (streamer and dac) before venturing onto things like expensive Ethernet cables and filters. The most ROI will be in upgraded components and not in Ethernet or other cable upgrades. Just a free advice. Take it for what it’s worth. 

I have the allo signature and find it best to stream wirelessly to it with a nice strong signal from my TP-link mesh. None of the noise and what-not that seems to drive people to those expensive switches and fiber solutions.

Look into the final leg going into your streamer adding a switch that will convert the run in to fiber. As soon as any noise hit fiber it is eliminated. Small green computer co has many options.

The Shield Ground has not been well Accepted by the community, especially those who have studied Electronics. Way too many people are selling Snake Oil these days. Especially since they found out that if you make it COST the customer dearly, it will sell even better.
John Swenson Shield Ground (JSSG), a myth debunked | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/john-swenson-shield-ground-jssg-a-myth-debunked.11289/

EVS Ground Enhancers: a collective exploration of a tweak (hifizine.com)

@esarhaddon 

I think you might have nailed the answer on why I had never heard of a working ground enhancer or “Shield Ground “

Thanks. 

Speaking once again as someone who majored in Electronic Engineering and has been an Advanced class HAM radio operator for about 30 years, beyond grounding your devices (which could induce undesirable ground loops), You are more likely noticing something in your local environment that is flummoxing your signal than seeing some silly grounding improvement. I can give excellent examples of how outside influences can change your environ. A Car pulls up to the curb outside your home or even across the street. A Neighbor comes home and turns on their living room light. You put a nail on the wall to hang up a picture, and the list goes on and on. If your cables are properly manufactured such as CAT 6 or Better yet CAT7 cables of most any major brand name, you are highly unlikely going to induce a stray signal into the wires. Unless you are using one of the Braided types of speaker cables or cables that are themselves sufficiently shielded, they (the speaker cables) are much more likely to pick up induced noise. All you have to do is look at the science behind CAt 6&7 wiring. Much less other cables. Thinking about our cars, though they have far less ignition noise than they used to have, Nowadays they are huge transmitters of computer noise and even WiFi or Cell frequencies. 
What is Cat 7 Cable? - Utmel 
www.utmel.com/blog/categories/cables/what-is-cat-7-cable

The whole concept behind the OLD Cat5 braided cables for speakers was to make them impervious to INDUCED noise. The process did increase the Capacitance slightly, but when I upgraded from my 20-year-old braided cables a couple of years ago I measured them against my new CARDIS cables and the differences were negligible.

In the OLD days, it was not uncommon for radio equipment near a HAM  or CAB transmitter to get induced radiation directly through the Case. Noe even the wiring to antennas. Just one box being too close to the other. and this was in the days of STEEL cases. But in our modern times, manufacturers have designed equipment to minimize this kind of radiate interference. You are more likely to pick up the 5Ghz signal from your WiFi itself than from some outside source. And even at that, the WiFi 6 signal is weak enough that you are forced to use a MESH configuration in your home if it has more than a couple of rooms.
Wi-Fi 6 - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi_6#:~:text=Wi-Fi%20Generations%20%20%20%20Generation%20%20,%20%205%20%206%20more%20rows%20

Then look into where your IoT devices are positioned, or your spouse or children are playing on the Ipads and Cellio phonies. They are constantly Pinging the Local cell tower and your WiFi router. HTat is more radio radiation than almost any home would ever see from a neighbor who has a radio transmitter. The bottom line is unless you live inside a 'Faraday Cage', you will never be free of electronic noise, but commonly available off-the-shelf products are pretty well protected from this noise.

Also, your Phonograph cart and needle are the most common point of access for radio wave signals. and for the most part how well your home's overall wiring is grounded is the most important issue. I have seen more people trying to OVER-Kill the grounding thing and causing more problems than what they start with, by creating ground loops.

+1, @david_ten

For grounding router / power supply and using better DC cord for LPS. There are quite a few choices or ways to properly ground the router and LPS that does not cause any ground loops and improve the overall performance. I found passive grounding from natural ores to be most effective in my system.

@serancien

I have gone through few filters and Ethernet switches in my system and results varied based on quality of the components. Bottom line, you will find your best configuration by trial n error.