I used one of these DEQ2496 EQ's between CD and DAC (AES or TOSLINK SPDIF in/out - all digital) and think that , especially with 12AU7 tubes in the path further down the line, that the EQ would be considered rather transparent. (Some experience in a modern studio environment would be helpful for setup though). This sounded better to me that the software ones I tried (which was years ago), even those within a DAW. I have 2 MiniDSP-HD's and assume those would be easier to use, but I never used the digital to digital version. You may be able to get one with a trial period. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DEQ2496--behringer-ultracurve-pro-deq2496 |
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I would experiment with just turning the balance a little to the left. Or maybe sit in the center, close your eyes and have someone else turn the balance till it sounds right? You get imaging information from the mids/highs. The lower the frequency the harder it is to pinpoint the source direction (think subwoofer). Once the imaging is correct I doubt you will notice one speaker is slightly louder than the other.
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Sorry all, I was travelling and doing this thread during it. George, yes I clicked wrong one. If I do anything in way of more electronics in stream, I'd prefer the analog method at the end. Since it's only affecting mid/highs I'm starting with a pair of brighter tubes for my preamp stage. Add a tad "L" and see if its better. Honestly, it's barely a problem but yeah, its detectable. Not degenerative but from too much hunting, shooting over the years without protection, even outdoors. String, i agree. While they may balance the perception in each ear they are about the definition of Lo-Fi (as used here) and usually focus on the voice portion of spectrum only. Thanks all for help. Great points. And wear protection in all loud hobbies/pursuits! |
Hearing lose is not only the reduction of highs....its also reduction in sensitivity to changes in amplitude at all frequencies. Yes, hearing aids make it easier to hear, but they don't repair the loss. Actually, removing the aids and listening gives a more realistic sound....the difference between cartoon animation and a print from a Leica lens. If you are a musician, audiophile, the loss is a great one that continues to worsen.
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akgwhiz OP
Alternatively, the Loki is at the end if the chain and will do it’s own internal ADC, process, then DAC on the way to amp. No sorry @akgwhiz , your looking at the old Loki dac (a deleted Schiit product). The new $149 Schiit Loki today is not a dac, but an analog domain EQ, it’s this I’m recommending for you. https://www.schiit.com/products/loki Cheers George |
Does the same corruption (sterilization) as what your recommending, even in front of your favorite dac. Whatever you do, don’t try a fix which might solve your problem because of the hidden bogey men who will come out of the stereo and rip your ears off. Come on. It's a lot better to attempt a reasonably good solution than to remain frozen in place for some fear of loss of purity. |
Maybe that’s why I’m not recommending any such device. Does the same corruption (sterilization) as what your recommending, even in front of your favorite dac. |
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Doesn't matter what anyone says the dacs in almost every
DSP/room/speaker/xover box is usually rubbish compared to your own hiend
dac
Maybe that's why I'm not recommending any such device. |
Doesn't matter what anyone says the dacs in almost every DSP/room/speaker/xover box is usually rubbish compared to your own hiend dac if you have one, and it's sound will never be what it was if it's in there as well.
There's too many processes going on that pollute and sterilize the digital stream, far better off just with the Schiit Loki done in the analog. And retain the sound of your hiend dac the way it was.
Cheers George |
A DSP between my transport and DAC will convert with it’s own DAC, do its eq, then convert back to the undecoded format (ADC). Then my MHDT will see it as before. Sorry but for this specific case, your example is incorrect. The signal remains in the digital domain and is converted to analog only at the last stage, the DAC. Transport --> S/PDIF --> Math is applied --> S/PDIF --> DAC DSP, or Digital Signal Processing, performs math on the digits, so the S/PDIF data stream is practically it’s native language. An example of what I’m suggesting in this specific case would be this: https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/nanodigi-2x8-bIt has digital inputs and outputs only and not a single analog part inside. :) In my case though, since all my signals come from Roon and I lack a spinner: Roon (CPU does the DSP to the digits) --> Wifi --> Streamer --> USB --> DAC Again, no conversion to analog happens until the last stage, where my Mytek Brooklyn takes the output of the streamer and feeds it to my integrated amp. Lastly, third option, is to use a miniDSP with built in streaming, AND digital inputs: https://www.minidsp.com/products/streaming-hd-seriesSo, in the third case, your transport AND your streaming goes through the same device, adding EQ to everything equally. In all three of these cases your existing DAC is the only place where digits are converted to analog signals. Best, E |
Erik, just make sure I understand. A DSP between my transport and DAC will convert with it's own DAC, do its eq, then convert back to the undecoded format (ADC). Then my MHDT will see it as before.
Alternatively, the Loki is at the end if the chain and will do it's own internal ADC, process, then DAC on the way to amp.
Seems either way, it's another DAC/ADC or ADC/DAC! I'm guessing theres no free lunch and you get what you pay for!
I'm leaning towards a little Left on the balance knob, even though it's full spectrum. The lows are less easily located so less to disrupt the imaging.
As someone who's built similar speakers, is placing a reflective "extension" on top of the left speaker going to do anything of consequence? I think the xo is 2500hz so that's perfect.
Thanks all Agonners for the input. This is a prime example of folks just trying to help and sharing insights. I'm traveling right now and may report back with news if its constructive. |
Keep in mind, I am advocating for DSP based EQ before a DAC, not after.
The use of a DSP EQ after a DAC to me is anti-high end as it requires two more conversions, in addition to the math. With the Loki it all remains in the analog domain, subject to whatever devices, op amps and capacitors are used.
In the case of Roon, it seems transparent, you get it "for free" and reasonably easy to use, but the analog Loki may be a better fitting solution.
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@amg,
Yes, I tried using equalizers, but the results were very disappointing.
The good thing was that it gave me insight into how speakers are made/voiced.
Re DSP:
Though I haven't used it, my friends have heard/tried it, and most find it artificial. So, YMMV.
I am with georgehifi on this one.
Bob |
I remember way in the past some of us oldies used equalisers.
I would note the comments by @needfreestuff . |
Thanks George, your point is well taken and what was on my mind. I have a really nice DAC with nice tubes so adding another DAC in the chain seems risky as DSP has to convert it first. Still, any comments on Loki (analog) messing with relative phases and therefore imaging? But yeah, I'm liking this route. Thanks all! |
No reason to avoid this if you do it before the DAC. No you can do it but, you’ve got 3 digital devices daisy chained before it gets into an analog domain,source, dsp/dac, then into back into your own dac!!!! You want to "sterilize" the sound then this is a good way to do it, it’ll be like using a crap transport into a great dac. First you need a digital output on whatever DSP/dac you use, then your getting whatever nasties two dacs give, one being very cheap, instead of the sound of your favored one. Just go the much simpler analog way with the Schiit Loki akgwhiz it’s cheap and transparent, your system will keep the same sound except for what you’ve boosted, to aid your hearing at that frequency, with no extra digitalis imprinted into the sound Cheers George |
Stay away from digital EQ’ing. No reason to avoid this if you do it before the DAC. Still, for the OP's problem, a Schiit might just do everything he needs. It's cheap, easy to use, easy to install. |
akgwhiz
just looked at Loki. Inexpensive enough to try Stay away from digital EQ’ing. Get this great piece, many here love what it can bring, and it’s so versatile, all done in the analog domain, just put it between your dac and amp on the channel you need to adjust the upper mid stronger at 3khz. And then your not screwing with the sound of your cherished dac by doing a DSP eq instead which have lousy d/a converters in them. This is the amazing things it can do, if your system needs it, I’ve tried it and it’s great, mine system doesn’t need it, but I still have one, just in case one day it’s needed. https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/schiit-loki-eq-measurements.5153/ Cheers George |
I have a simular problem. My tubed integrated has a balance dial and I simply adjust it. Nothing complicated just common sense.
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@OP,
I suffer from the same 'problem'.
After 30+ years, I just accept it for what it is- My hearing isn't perfect.
One easy fix is to tow in one speaker a bit/point the other speaker out.
Not exactly high tech, but it helps, and doesn't cost anything.
Bob |
Doing it in the xo would likely result in differential impedance and likely phase curves, between speakers. As a crossover designer, unless you are an experienced crossover designer yourself, this is much harder than you think it is, and what if the results are short lived? :) An EQ solution lets you adjust by ear and get instant feedback, which you can always improve upon or adapt later. |
Erik, thanks for the leads! This would likely suffice to "retune" my output rather than differentially doing this on the speakers. Doing it in the xo would likely result in differential impedance and likely phase curves, between speakers. Now I need to research how to convert my HPL left ear profile to SPL. It's a non linear problem but solvable. Thanks to all who made suggestions. I love my result to date but can only imagine it improving. Its actually a slight reduction as I can still hear differences to tubes, sources, and the likes of toe in and tilt. |
if youre going for a mini dsp you might as well retune the entire crossover
Said a man who literally has no idea what he's talking about. |
if youre going for a mini dsp you might as well retune the entire crossover |
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Something wrong with hearing aids. It will correct your hearing loss and fix your balance. I would Think that correcting your hearing loss would be a number one priority. All the best. |
Erik, just looked at Loki. Inexpensive enough to try. But it can go between transport and DAC? I use a Cambridge CXC to an MHDT Orchid. Otherwise it's my ProJect TT to Vincent Pho8.
Jaytor, I like your thinking. Simple enough but I've made the right wall absorptive some already. |
If a tad left on the amp works to center, that is a good, easy option. Another thing you might try is an offset speaker arrangement. Side to side, possibly even front to back. Sometimes it works to set speakers “off” of one another to deal with various phase and room issues. Could be as simple as a little more, or a little less toe in. To the extreme of a completely asymmetrical setup. Experiment, your ears will tell you what is best. Since none of us can hear (or not) what you hear we are simply shooting in the air.
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If it were me, I’d account for the loss in an EQ before my DAC. If that’s’ not an option you can take, the Schiit Loki may work for you. You’ll have to kind of hack it, you’ll only use one channel. :)
Digital EQ's are a lot more transparent, and can you hear them? I don't know, but I can tell you that making up for your hearing loss is a lot better than not.
Best,
E
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Leave the crossover alone.
What is your source?
Do you have copies of your hearing loss chart?
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How about putting an acoustic absorption panel on the right wall, but not the left. You'll get a bit more reflected energy from the left which might provide a better balance. |
Sounds like you need a complete retune rather than a tweak. |
