I was in North Conway end of October. Should have been in the high 40's, was warmer than July's average. Crazy New England weather...
A Story about a Defective Signature Platinum
Last week I was listening to music at a healthy volume while sitting at my computer. I have an auto lifter (Little Fwend) and after the arm lifted I noticed a static noise with occasional popping coming out of the left channel about 40 dB down. At first I thought it was a bad tube but it disappeared when I turned the volume down. It is in front of the Preamp. None of the other sources had the noise. Swapping tonearm cables did not seem to change the sound but then I noticed that the sound was also in the right channel just farther down. Disconnecting the tonearm stopped the noise. I change over to an MC Diamond, no noise. Same with the Atlas, no noise. Swapped back to the MSL, noise is back.
The cartridge is exactly one year old but it rotates with two other cartridges and might have 75 hours on it. I called the dealer who told me to contact MoFi distribution, the US agent for MSL. Turns out the cartridge only has a 90 day warranty and I was told I would have to send it in for a rebuild for $6000! Can't they just fix the problem for maybe $500, No. Can't I just send it in for evaluation? The stylus and cantilever are brand new. No, a rebuild is the only option and you have to do that through the dealer, click! Most very expensive cartridges have a 2 year warranty on them not to mention that most companies would cover such a defect even off warranty as in the absence of physical damage it is obviously a manufacturing defect, a bad solder joint or maybe just two wires rubbing together. This is very disappointing and as far as customer service goes Home Depot is better than MoFi, Sears is better than MoFi! MoFI is right up there with Anthem Blue Cross! The service rep could have offered to look into it. Maybe communicate with MSL and get their opinion. I am sure if MSL knew about it they would gladly fix it and actually be embarrassed. The Japanese are like that. There is no way I can find to get directly in touch with MSL.
$6000 is not an option. I am not going to throw good money after bad. I am also not going to off a defective cartridge on someone else. I am going to take the cartridge apart and reflow the solder joints and make sure the wires are separated. If that doesn't fix it, it goes in the trash.
Mistakes and defects happen, it is what you do about them that counts. MoFi failed dismally in this regard. MSL makes a fine cartridge but I would only get another one if they changed agents and increased their warranty. Obviously, I will avoid buying any other MoFi products myself and warn others about their customer service. I have no further use for the dealer who did nothing to help. I have had superb service from Musical Surroundings, Soundsmith, B+H Photo and the Cable Company. All handled issues with ease. Has anyone else had trouble with MoFi? What companies have provided you with excellent service when the sh-t hit the fan?
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Tis an art no doubt, but an expansive one. The Atma-Spheres cost me a hot tube and associated landscaping for a total of $75 K not including the Atma-Spheres. She's at it again with new windows, carpeting and an entirely new master bathroom. I should be able to get another amp and cartridge out of it. |
Your MSL listing is a fantastic deal. I have 2 friends who want it but they’re not in a position to do it now (and their wives would kill then). I’m sort of tempted myself, but I have way too much gear to be buying another cart like that. Your listing is perfect as is; no need to justify. I’m surprised it hasn’t sold yet! |
Yes it is. I listed it as mint for two reasons. It meets US Audiomart's definition of "mint", I listed it for $1000 less than another MSL on the site, I am trying to attract customers and I plan on having personal full disclosure before the sale. I would never sell the cartridge without giving it's full history. It is operating perfectly normally and those photographs of the stylus were taken just before the listing and as you can see it is perfect. Why am I selling it? I like the Lyra Atlas SL and the Ortofon MC Diamond better. I have an opportunity to get a Hyperion MR at a great price and I have to cover the expense or my wife will kill me. |
I do not know for sure, but I was told that when the Anna name changed to Diamond the new version incorporated all of the improvements made in the Verismo. The only thing I know for sure is the Verismo is going to require a very heavy arm to produce good bass. It has the same compliance as the MC Diamond, 11 um/mN but weights 9.5 gm vs the Diamonds 16 gm. I just get the Diamond down to 8 hz with the heaviest brass mounting plate supplied with the Schroder CB arm. I do not see what the coil wire type is with the Verismo, but the Diamond uses oxygen free copper. I would assume that if they found a wire type that made the Verismo better they would use it in their flagship also. Stanger things have happened. |
In relation to the Verismo, Ortofon made quite a clear statement in the earliest of the info supplied for the Cart', that the Cart' is using a State of the Art Dual Damper materials for the WRD on the Verismo. I have familiarised myself with Ortofon WRD systems for quite some time, so the Verismo has my attention for this reason, as well as the Aucurum windings. The other reason and one that is conjecture, is that I believe the Verismo may be the Tech' that is the one to be trickled down from to produce the Cadenza Ranges Successor. The individual who has kindly made the offer of the Verismo Demo' also has the Anna or Diamond (Tomartoes-Tomaytoes). The Anna/Diamond is using a Copper Wire Col but it is not described as Aucurum, it is claimed to be ultra pure, maybe it is PC Triple C 😎. Most who know myself through a forum, will recollect I don't get too bogged down in the math in a public arena, it is generally my experiences only or encouraging experiences that I am a advocate of. |
The Hyperion will probably be my next cartridge. I had a Voice and it was wonderful. The MSL has been in duty for the last two months and is working fine. MoFi made sure I was paid back the cost of the repair, so all is fine in Hobbit Land. I have an MC Diamond and the Verismo is essentially the same cartridge. As long as you have a quiet phono stage with 68 dB of gain or more, IMHO, knowing the system you have, I can not imagine that you would not like the Verismo best of those choices. It is more detailed and dynamic than the others. If a system is inherently sibilant it will make that worse, but if your system is smooth through 4 kHz I cannot imagine you liking another cartridge better. Systems like these never advertise the volume they are playing at. You don't realize how loud they are going until you try to talk. You also never get the feeling that you have to turn them down, only up:-) |
I have made it known previously of my interest in the MSL Platinum and Gold. I have also made it known where these can be seen offered for sale at quite a different price to what has been paid for the Platinum Model in this Thread. I do promote and encourage demo's in advance to achieve an experience. To date with most owned MC Cart's I have achieved a experience in advance of making a decision. With a MC Cart' rebuild I have not had the safeguard of the pre-purchase experience, even though I was familiarised with Cart's containing a selection of parts I was looking to have used. The Hana SL was a Blind Buy and it has never endeared itself to me, remaining unused for a long period of time with minimal usage hours on it. There are not many Cart's I have encountered that hit a home run when I am in a room with them, not too many have created during a demo' the experience where I wanted to know more, the want to know more has been limited to a few Cart's only and Ortofon is a Brand that gets through to my psyche. I have the MSL Gold and Silver, Ortofon Verismo and Hana Umami Blue on a shortlist to be demo'd. The Verismo has once been offered up for a demo, for myself to visit a home approx' 2 Hours from mine, where it is in use on the home system. I see the Blue as a Cart' that will be reasonably easy to find for a Demo', the price alone makes it a Cart' many will aspire to have a use of. The MSL's are going to be a harder search, I nearly weakened over holiday period. I found a used sale Gold with a short usage life. The Cart' was shown to be immaculately clean in the sales ad photos. At a asking price of £2200 I was getting a little of from my usual restraint and cool composure, I was having the odd twitch, swivel along with a bit of insomnia whilst refraining from the want to purchase. Fortunately/Unfortunately it is seemingly on route to another buyer.
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Sorry to hear about your issues with the MSL. It seems that the MSLs were once the flavor of the day MC. I can certainly attest to the sonic merits of the Soundsmith Hyperion. It is easy to set up (mounted on SME V), has a recommended minimum loading of 470 ohms, and tracks without any hiccups. These are traits one would want of any cartridge, especially ones reaching higher into the stratosphere price-wise. I have yet to setup the Airtight Opus 1 on the Transrotor TRA-9 Gold arm. The system is mostly assembled after nearly a year in storage due to our move into our new home. I posted a while back that I would conduct a comparative analysis between the Hyperion and the Opus 1. I only had about a few months of play time with the Air Tight before I started packing things up. However, I distinctly recall that the Hyperion hits way above its pay band compared to other uber price MCs. It just does what we want, plays musical in the most beautiful and articulate means possible. The noise floor seems as if it is also quieter with the Hyperion. The Air Tight which costs a lot more, seemed to need lots of special attention to dial in. I suppose at that level, one would expect some extra detailed measurements. It is finicky to setup. Whereas, the Hyperion was a simple install. I used the Wally tools glass protractor to assist in setup. I truly believe people should look at the Hyperion as it is probably a sleeper giant killer compared to others above its pay band. Good luck. PS. Now I am going to look in my library to find some Lawrence Welk. Have not listened in years:) |
I love the Drifters along with Dion and the Belmonts, The imperials, The Capris, Shep and the Limelight's, The Tokens, The Earls, The Five Discs, Harvey and the Moonglows, Randy and the Rainbows, The Flamingos, The Mystics, Boss-Tones, The Platters , Lee Andrew and the Hearts, Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers, etc. I did not come into them until later in life. @lewm A\ And what the heck did you listen to when you were 10 years old, Lawrence Welk? Tell me you liked the bubbles! |
@mijostyn Well ya flunked Engineering… You are thinking the Balsa serves two functions, not 3. A skill you might find VERY helpful in your endeavor is forward and backward pass analysis on FUNCTIONAL attributes of an Enginerred good. Of course if you do a tolerance stack analysis, you might decise the angstrom level TT drive isn’t necessary… ( it’s still cool ). Hint ; the orientation of the Balsa actually is important….. Precision of word use matters… a careful read of my prior note says primary bond… @pindac has a significant grip on that…. the 787 is ancient, like me. The -10 variant…not so much…. i’m sure it incorporates new tech in composites as deemed appropriate…. If an 18 year old neighbor can listen to Zeppelin, i can partake of the Drifters…. get off my lawn… |
The most successful Resin Impregnation will be carried out on a Wand that is within a Vacuum. The Treated Wand will be submerged as the Vacuum cavity is filled with the Resin, the air cavities created in the Wood, will have the resin ingress into them. Similar could be done as I have seen with Old Oilite Bushes, where the Bush is submerged in clean new oil and the Vacuum is then created, it is possible to see the air being drawn out of the Oilite Pores, which is then assumed to be impregnated with the New Oil. |
Mums the word. Look under the pile of sawdust. How old is the 787 now? Making a cylinder out of balsa is simple. Orient it any way you like. You resin impregnate it, stick the blank on the lathe, drill an axial hole with a drill mounted in the tail stock and finally turn it round. On a good day I bet I could get the wall thickness down to 1/2 mm. As a form for a carbon fiber tube it is much too time consuming. It is much easier to use a Styrofoam cylinder. But CF has become commonplace and rather boring. A fancy arm needs something with more pizzaz like Rhenium Diboride. The Drifters? You are giving away your age. I stop at Paul Revere and the Raiders classical not included. |
@dogberry : Audiophiles always need " some " kind of money but we can hide it under the " umbrella ".
R. |
Hilarious….. I think i was pretty clear with the mention of balsa was to spur interest.. I was entrusted with steering that organization precisely because i didn’t know…. I made it a cornerstone of my management philosophy to attempt the practice of Humble Inquiry ( thank you Dr Schein )….RIP IF the process of machining end grain balsa into a cylindrical core and achieving a primary bond with a CFRP set was classified AND i was privy to that i most certainly wouldn’t have comment. Of course, there are advanced aerospace development organizations…. doing… commercial market work… for example 787 carry on…. a driftwood tonearm playing the drifters on a slightly off center record sounds enticing….
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Nice cover. Such non disclosure agreements pertain to patentable issues during the life of the patent. Anyone dealing with items significant for military reasons will have security clearance. I suppose tomic has one of those also. I happen to be an expert woodturner. We resin impregnate wood all the time with colored resins to make interesting turnings. We put the wood (I like driftwood) in a large pressure pot with heated resin, apply pressure and let it sit for 48 hours. When you release it from the pot you have a resin cylinder that you can mount on the lath and turn to any shape you desire. The driftwood usually decides. We do not have security clearance and are not aerospace engineers. I do have one non disclosure agreement which I can not discuss. |
Dear @lewm : " Try your Goldring. I am finding the MP500 Nagaoka to be excellent (on my Triplanar) but perhaps not the equal of the Ortofon MC2000. "
Your advise to mijos could be not function with him in the same way that in your system.
Key for MM/MI cartridges is the MM phono stage design ( you even can do way better ). Normally phono stages designers do not care about MM/MI cartridges because normally MC is the " rule " , so for MM/MI cartridges they use the MC stage with lower gain stage and that's all.
To really shine MM/MI cartridges needs a dedicated phono stage diferent from the MC stage. Around 15 years ago I re-discover the MM/MI cartridges thank's that I owned a few Audio Technica and AKG models and thank's that was with these cartridges that we tested our Essential 3150 that came with a dedicated MM stage totally separated of the MC stage, in reality the 3150 has 2 separated and different phono stages. The needs of LOMC cartridges are diferent of the MM/MI needs, In those times I shared my re-discover starting the today very long thread MM/MI dedicated and through the time several of Agoners learned and shared about their first hand experiences with. As a fact all the vintage cartridge you own was because that thread you knew about through that thread and your curiosity made that you pull the triger. The unit that mijos is waiting is a full integrated " digital processor " that as an option you can buy with phono stage too. Btw, Nagaoka beats Goldring that's a good cartridge but any of your vintage cartridges outperforms that Goldring. When we finished the Essential 3160 all those vintage cartridges gone/performs at a new and better level not more of the same but with som critical characteristics that comes in the LOMC cartridges that we are accustom to by " hundred " of years listening to it. Obviously that through the time all go changing and changing and normally all those change in the audio world is for the " better ". As we audiophiles all audio items designers improve their new models is critical main part and the name of the game. That's why right now instead to stay listening only MC cartridges I have mounted two vintage Audio Technica cartridges running through my new Essential 3180 and guess what: I can't say that I'm listening a MM cartridges even coming from the early 80's and these kind of experiences is due to the MM 3180 phono stage. Mijos mentioned SUT for HO MC and well the overall listened quality sound levels " coming " from that SUT mainly depends of the MM phono stage design. Btw, mijos I know what you could answer but the MC Diamond is not very low output ( 0.2mv ) and that " noise " you mentioned not should be there. Current design has more disadvantages that advantages if any over the voltage design stages and we have to remember that cartridge is a voltage item.
R. |
Au contraire, mon amis. I assume the faint hiss is coming from the voltage gain stage that adds 11db to the voltage output of the current driven stage. At +7db, there may be fewer gain devices in the signal path and hence a better S/N ratio. Also I’ll be turning up the volume on my linestage which I know to be quiet. This all remains to be heard. |
Exactly, i’ve heard it ( stunning ) before i knew enough about how it was constructed to ask more questions. Getting CF and a resin set to bond to end grain is a tricky business…not covered by a patent for obvious reasons. The designer of the arm wand has extensive audio related experience with the materials and process. My mention of it was perhaps to reinforce other’s interest in balsa. |
Your having the same problem I have with the MC Diamond. Unfortunately, it will not be quieter because you just push the volume up to get to the equivalent loudness. You are not changing the signal to noise ratio. It will seem quieter only because there will be less noise at the same position of the volume control. If you ever get a Lyra do not opt for the SL version. The higher output versions will work perfect with your phono stage as will the MSLs. I plan on getting another Voice. I gave my old one to a friend for his 70th Bday. Great Cartridge. I might try the MP500 and a Goldring. I do not have a Goldring now. Switching back and forth between phono stages will be a PITA. I might get a second turntable. One that can except a 12" arm. I can get a good deal on a CS Port but it is not my kind of table. I will have to get an isolation platform for it but the pair would be less expensive than a Dohmann Helix 1. I'm not sure if the Helix 2 accepts a 12" arm. There is also the SME 20/12 and 30/12. Basis, like Sota, totally avoids 12" arms. |
Try your Goldring. I am finding the MP500 Nagaoka to be excellent (on my Triplanar) but perhaps not the equal of the Ortofon MC2000. Problem there is I’m getting very faint hiss with the BMC MCCI at its +11db setting. Can hear it only between cuts on an LP, but I’m bugged. Will go back to +7db to see if that is quieter. |
The topic of this post is doing well and as far as I can tell there has been no change in its performance since the repair. It (signature platinum) is a very easy cartridge to live with. It's high output and low impedance give and excellent signal to noise ration. It is smooth and silky maybe lacking the last word in detail. The MC Diamond is a tank of a cartridge. It is big and heavy. With the phono stage I have it does not have the greatest signal to noise ratio as it is very low output and has a higher impedance of 6 ohms. When played loud I can hear the hiss between cuts. It is extremely detailed and dynamic. The Lyra Atlas Lambda SL is not quite as noisy as the MC Diamond, is just as detailed but perhaps not quite as dynamic. It has the best resolution of the third dimension. I spread out the wear between the cartridges but if I had to choose one it would be the Lyra. The Seta L Plus does not have a MM section, but the DEQX which I should have shortly has some kind of special MM section designed with or by Dynavector. I will get back into high output cartridges and maybe try a transformer for fun. |
The Balsa wood would have to be impregnated to make it stiff enough. The arm wand is actually only 6" long. It is not prone to a high effective mass at all. Given it's short length it will take more mass to get the EM up where most MC cartridges like. The patented idea has to do with the linear, computer controlled motor. The arm itself is not anything out of the ordinary. It is a short gimbal arm without any offset and no anti skating. |
