I had one of the very first Rosewoods and did not like like it. I had a Grado Statement and it was much better, so I am sure you are right. The Epoch is on my short list including the Hyperion and DRT-XV-1T. My current favorite is the Lyra Atlas Lambda SL.
A Story about a Defective Signature Platinum
Last week I was listening to music at a healthy volume while sitting at my computer. I have an auto lifter (Little Fwend) and after the arm lifted I noticed a static noise with occasional popping coming out of the left channel about 40 dB down. At first I thought it was a bad tube but it disappeared when I turned the volume down. It is in front of the Preamp. None of the other sources had the noise. Swapping tonearm cables did not seem to change the sound but then I noticed that the sound was also in the right channel just farther down. Disconnecting the tonearm stopped the noise. I change over to an MC Diamond, no noise. Same with the Atlas, no noise. Swapped back to the MSL, noise is back.
The cartridge is exactly one year old but it rotates with two other cartridges and might have 75 hours on it. I called the dealer who told me to contact MoFi distribution, the US agent for MSL. Turns out the cartridge only has a 90 day warranty and I was told I would have to send it in for a rebuild for $6000! Can't they just fix the problem for maybe $500, No. Can't I just send it in for evaluation? The stylus and cantilever are brand new. No, a rebuild is the only option and you have to do that through the dealer, click! Most very expensive cartridges have a 2 year warranty on them not to mention that most companies would cover such a defect even off warranty as in the absence of physical damage it is obviously a manufacturing defect, a bad solder joint or maybe just two wires rubbing together. This is very disappointing and as far as customer service goes Home Depot is better than MoFi, Sears is better than MoFi! MoFI is right up there with Anthem Blue Cross! The service rep could have offered to look into it. Maybe communicate with MSL and get their opinion. I am sure if MSL knew about it they would gladly fix it and actually be embarrassed. The Japanese are like that. There is no way I can find to get directly in touch with MSL.
$6000 is not an option. I am not going to throw good money after bad. I am also not going to off a defective cartridge on someone else. I am going to take the cartridge apart and reflow the solder joints and make sure the wires are separated. If that doesn't fix it, it goes in the trash.
Mistakes and defects happen, it is what you do about them that counts. MoFi failed dismally in this regard. MSL makes a fine cartridge but I would only get another one if they changed agents and increased their warranty. Obviously, I will avoid buying any other MoFi products myself and warn others about their customer service. I have no further use for the dealer who did nothing to help. I have had superb service from Musical Surroundings, Soundsmith, B+H Photo and the Cable Company. All handled issues with ease. Has anyone else had trouble with MoFi? What companies have provided you with excellent service when the sh-t hit the fan?
Showing 50 responses by mijostyn
The Balsa wood would have to be impregnated to make it stiff enough. The arm wand is actually only 6" long. It is not prone to a high effective mass at all. Given it's short length it will take more mass to get the EM up where most MC cartridges like. The patented idea has to do with the linear, computer controlled motor. The arm itself is not anything out of the ordinary. It is a short gimbal arm without any offset and no anti skating. |
The topic of this post is doing well and as far as I can tell there has been no change in its performance since the repair. It (signature platinum) is a very easy cartridge to live with. It's high output and low impedance give and excellent signal to noise ration. It is smooth and silky maybe lacking the last word in detail. The MC Diamond is a tank of a cartridge. It is big and heavy. With the phono stage I have it does not have the greatest signal to noise ratio as it is very low output and has a higher impedance of 6 ohms. When played loud I can hear the hiss between cuts. It is extremely detailed and dynamic. The Lyra Atlas Lambda SL is not quite as noisy as the MC Diamond, is just as detailed but perhaps not quite as dynamic. It has the best resolution of the third dimension. I spread out the wear between the cartridges but if I had to choose one it would be the Lyra. The Seta L Plus does not have a MM section, but the DEQX which I should have shortly has some kind of special MM section designed with or by Dynavector. I will get back into high output cartridges and maybe try a transformer for fun. |
Your having the same problem I have with the MC Diamond. Unfortunately, it will not be quieter because you just push the volume up to get to the equivalent loudness. You are not changing the signal to noise ratio. It will seem quieter only because there will be less noise at the same position of the volume control. If you ever get a Lyra do not opt for the SL version. The higher output versions will work perfect with your phono stage as will the MSLs. I plan on getting another Voice. I gave my old one to a friend for his 70th Bday. Great Cartridge. I might try the MP500 and a Goldring. I do not have a Goldring now. Switching back and forth between phono stages will be a PITA. I might get a second turntable. One that can except a 12" arm. I can get a good deal on a CS Port but it is not my kind of table. I will have to get an isolation platform for it but the pair would be less expensive than a Dohmann Helix 1. I'm not sure if the Helix 2 accepts a 12" arm. There is also the SME 20/12 and 30/12. Basis, like Sota, totally avoids 12" arms. |
Nice cover. Such non disclosure agreements pertain to patentable issues during the life of the patent. Anyone dealing with items significant for military reasons will have security clearance. I suppose tomic has one of those also. I happen to be an expert woodturner. We resin impregnate wood all the time with colored resins to make interesting turnings. We put the wood (I like driftwood) in a large pressure pot with heated resin, apply pressure and let it sit for 48 hours. When you release it from the pot you have a resin cylinder that you can mount on the lath and turn to any shape you desire. The driftwood usually decides. We do not have security clearance and are not aerospace engineers. I do have one non disclosure agreement which I can not discuss. |
Mums the word. Look under the pile of sawdust. How old is the 787 now? Making a cylinder out of balsa is simple. Orient it any way you like. You resin impregnate it, stick the blank on the lathe, drill an axial hole with a drill mounted in the tail stock and finally turn it round. On a good day I bet I could get the wall thickness down to 1/2 mm. As a form for a carbon fiber tube it is much too time consuming. It is much easier to use a Styrofoam cylinder. But CF has become commonplace and rather boring. A fancy arm needs something with more pizzaz like Rhenium Diboride. The Drifters? You are giving away your age. I stop at Paul Revere and the Raiders classical not included. |
I love the Drifters along with Dion and the Belmonts, The imperials, The Capris, Shep and the Limelight's, The Tokens, The Earls, The Five Discs, Harvey and the Moonglows, Randy and the Rainbows, The Flamingos, The Mystics, Boss-Tones, The Platters , Lee Andrew and the Hearts, Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers, etc. I did not come into them until later in life. @lewm A\ And what the heck did you listen to when you were 10 years old, Lawrence Welk? Tell me you liked the bubbles! |
The Hyperion will probably be my next cartridge. I had a Voice and it was wonderful. The MSL has been in duty for the last two months and is working fine. MoFi made sure I was paid back the cost of the repair, so all is fine in Hobbit Land. I have an MC Diamond and the Verismo is essentially the same cartridge. As long as you have a quiet phono stage with 68 dB of gain or more, IMHO, knowing the system you have, I can not imagine that you would not like the Verismo best of those choices. It is more detailed and dynamic than the others. If a system is inherently sibilant it will make that worse, but if your system is smooth through 4 kHz I cannot imagine you liking another cartridge better. Systems like these never advertise the volume they are playing at. You don't realize how loud they are going until you try to talk. You also never get the feeling that you have to turn them down, only up:-) |
I do not know for sure, but I was told that when the Anna name changed to Diamond the new version incorporated all of the improvements made in the Verismo. The only thing I know for sure is the Verismo is going to require a very heavy arm to produce good bass. It has the same compliance as the MC Diamond, 11 um/mN but weights 9.5 gm vs the Diamonds 16 gm. I just get the Diamond down to 8 hz with the heaviest brass mounting plate supplied with the Schroder CB arm. I do not see what the coil wire type is with the Verismo, but the Diamond uses oxygen free copper. I would assume that if they found a wire type that made the Verismo better they would use it in their flagship also. Stanger things have happened. |
@cleeds , I forgot to mention. The dealer is a small establishment and I have had good service from him before. I care not to damage his reputation unlike MoFi, a huge establishment that really underperformed inexcusably. They are the ones really responsible for handling this problem as MSLs representative. |
Thank you all for responding. @lewm, real simple, a microscope. microtweezers (I used them to pull out splinters) and a Weller soldering station with the smallest tip on. The back plate is held on by one screw. I can inspect the solder joints and lead out wires. I will not go any farther. @jcarr Thank you so much for responding. No surprise you are the first one to have plausible explanations for the problem. I am definitely not getting involved with the coils, lead out wires maybe , but not the coils. One person suggested that it was a cracked diamond 😆 Do you think the coils can be adequately replaced by local techs? @whart Given that it is virtually impossible to get through to MSL you can bet that MoFi is setting the warranty. The Japanese culture would never allow this sort of treatment. If I can get an address for them in Japan I will send them a letter explaining the situation. Companies that I have dealt with who handled this type of issue beautifully include Soundsmith, Musical Surroundings, Clearaudio, Elusive Disc, B+H Photo, Atma-Sphere and The Cable Company. These are only the ones I have had direct experience with. I'm sure there are a lot of others. For those interested in the diamond (don't know it this is going to work) "C:\Users\mijos\OneDrive\Documents\MSL AP.jpg" and "C:\Users\mijos\OneDrive\Documents\MSL Lat.jpg" @newtoncr Does that refer to Newton Center, MA? I have not heard the Sig Platinum mistrack in the bass and I have boosted subwoofers. Check your tonearm setup and make sure the stylus is absolutely clean UNDER MAGNIFICATION. You would be surprised at the stuff that styluses can collect especially with some record cleaning solutions. You can not tell with the naked eye. I use an artist brush with the bristles cut 1/2 way back. Many mild stylus cleaning solutions will not work. There are times when you have no choice but to use 50% ethanol is water. If the stylus is clean and your setup is good you have a defective cartridge in which case you are in the same boat I am in. |
A mans got to know his limits:-) I have been taking things apart since I was four years old. One of my mother's favorite stories was about me taking apart a broken electric can opener fixing it and putting back together. She says I was 6 at the time. Whenever anything broke I was put into action. My father did not know which end of the screwdriver to use. I have no idea how I got this way. I am not worried about taking the back cover off the cartridge at all. The magic to doing things like this is holding the object in a fixed position, in this case a model maker's vise. Then the right lighting and finally the right tools. I will also be using very strong loops. Working under magnification is magic. Working with tiny little things is easy. |
I had the stylus disappear from the cantilever of a Clearaudio Charisma. I took a microphotograph off the cantilever and emailed it to Musical Surroundings. I had a brand new cartridge and a shipping label for the old one in four days. Fortunately, the stylus on my MC Diamond has remained resolutely in place and it just played a Nickelback record :-) Koetsu is also distributed by MoFi. |
https://i.imgur.com/LFFl4hO.jpg https://i.imgur.com/KUiBzma.jpg Here are the pictures of the MSL Stylus which is a nicely polished symmetrical fine line. It is in perfect shape (no cracks) |
@wrm57 , @ghdprentice , @mulveling @rauliruegas , @drbond @newtoncr @wrm57 @rsf507 I have a friend in Japan. He tried to get through to MSL and could not! He kept getting bounced to distributors like MoFi (Music Direct). If I had known this I never would have purchased this cartridge. Customer support is nonexistent. |
@daveyf , Sure, I went through the dealer and he did not get any further than I did. He is an approved dealer. Warranty is three months and that is it regardless. I wish to remind everyone that MoFi is now owned by Music Direct. Since I have so many other reliable options I will not be doing business with either company from now on. I have an Atlas SL and it is certainly a wonderful cartridge. I have no doubt given jcars involvement in this forum that Lyra would never do this to one of its customers. I opened the MSL up and did not find anything easy to fix, the interior workmanship is beyond reproach however, The shell is rather thin metal and leaves a rather large interior cavity. It does not look this way from the outside. I think the Lyra, Verismo, Van den Hul style of construction makes more sense. |
I agree. 3 months for an $11,000 cartridge is worse than weak and I believe this policy is being set by Music Direct. My only recourse (NH does not have minimum warranty laws.) Is to let everyone I can know and avoid Music Direct and any of their subsidiaries like the plague. Not knowing the Warranty before I purchased the cartridge is on me. Assumptions are the mother of all F-ups. I sent the cartridge to Steven and we will see what he can do. If he has to rewind the coils he will have to get ahold of the unusually thick wire MSL uses to maintain the low impedance. I'll test it and listen when I get it back. If I do not like it for some reason I'll sell it as a rebuild for a couple of grand. There are two cartridges I have my eye on, The Soundsmith Hyperion and the Grado Epoch. I am very comfortable with Soundsmith's quality and support. I have not had a chance to handle or listen to a recent Grado. My old Statement was fine. I never had to test Grado's support but I have never heard a bad comment. |
@lewm 1++ Not warm and fuzzy at all. I do not plan on using him again. Music Direct sets the warranty in this country. They are a large outfit with soldiers who just follow orders. Getting to anyone who might change the game plan is next to impossible. I am quite comfortable taking the hit and letting everyone know. It is nowhere near the worst insult I have ever sustained. |
While I agree that a good dealer will try to ease the pain by making a deal on another cartridge. The dealer does not set the warranty and once you are dealing with a huge bureaucracy it is like talking to a brick wall. It is much easier dealing with smallish companies like Musical Surroundings. They are great. The Hana Umami Red is looking better by the minute. I have never heard one of the more expensive Clearaudio cartridges. The Da Vinci is a possibility. |
@daveyf , I agree but all dealers are not like that. Some are. Porsche replaced a lot of those engines even after the warranty ended. They sent letters to the owners of those cars telling them to get the intermediate shaft bearing replaced because in a few months they were not going to support it anymore. The suits come after. 996's are cheap because their ass is not fat enough and they have stupid looking headlights. However, the turbo version has a fantastic engine and is a steal if you can find one. I own a 17 year old Porsche. What is wrong with that? You jealous? So far so good. Steven has been very responsive. The cartridge arrives at his shop today. The lesson is that I should have looked at the warranty before buying it. That would have killed the sale. I have to say that the Hana Umami Red looks like an excellent cartridge for the money as does the Mutech. |
The upgrade bearings are doing fine so far. The 997.1 was the last car with that design. It came with a much larger Intermediate shaft bearing. The 997.2 onwards do not use intermediate shafts. This means the heads, instead of being identical are mirror images of each other. The cars with intermediate shafts sound different and much more in keeping with the classic character of 911s. Porsche has always treated me well. @pindac , I cut loose with a four letter word somebody did not like. If you were to spend $11K on a cartridge and it did this and you were handled in the way I was I think you would be upset to say the least. With the exception of the diamond and cantilever cartridges are really very simple and quite tough. The Umami Red is the one to go for. Exactly, I started this thread to warn others of the limited warranty on these cartridges and the corporate nature of Music Direct and MoFi. The grape vine will do the rest. Steven has been ace so far. All I expect is a manufacturer to take care of problems that are obviously do to a manufacturing defect within a reasonable period of time. I have direct experience with Soundsmith and Soundsmith cartridges are wonderful and the service is excellent. |
I never get upset and always use a polite diplomatic manner. If I do not like the results I never use that entity again and start posts like this. Another thing is "I do not care about the price of the cartridge. Someone buying a $500 cartridge should be treated exactly the same. All people are in business to make money. Some only care about the money others care about having happy customers and their reputation. Music Direct is an example of the former, Soundsmith and Clearaudio the latter. As always it is consumer beware. I should have checked the warranty before buying the cartridge. |
All very true. Unfortunately, it is a very significant fault based on common human behavioral traits. I use to give people the benefit of the doubt but you can't do that anymore. Friends and family are more important than ever. The MSL is not as detailed or dynamic as the Lyra Atlas SL or the MC Diamond. That is not to say it is not detailed or dynamic. I listen to all three cartridges regularly on electrostatic speakers ,so I feel very comfortable in that assessment. Another point is that these differences are subtle and in many instances would not be noticed especially with limited exposure. If anyone listens to a cartridge for one song and gives you a full detailed assessment of it's performance they are FOS.. You might want to take a look at the Ortofon Windfeld Ti. It is a fabulous cartridge made by a reputable, well funded manufacturer. It is a neutral, smooth sounding cartridge with superior tracking abilities and arguably the best diamond profile made. |
Well, I am running an MC Diamond now and it is very similar to the Verismo and as long as you have a phono stage with a very good signal to noise ratio you can not do much better. It is a bit out of the price range you mentioned but that is sort of like the debt limit we have here in the States. I think you can forget about world peace for a while. History says this is going to get rough. |
Exactly. I would don your radiation suit. The problem has already been adequately described. What I found on removing the cover was a filament lying across the lead out wires of the left channel coil which are tack glued to the body of the magnet on their way back to the pins. The filament was incorporated into the glue. I pulled up the hot wire and removed the filament. As I had removed the back plate and disconnected the lead out wires from the pins. It looked like two of the wires would require splicing which is beyond my capability. Steven has hooked everything back up and says the cartridge sounds "great." We shall see when I get it back in the system. The coils, suspension and cantilever remain unscathed. Jonderda, you are now in the unfortunate position of having to do damage control. MoFi is not operating at the same level as it's peers. I fully understand that there are plenty of wacky customers out there but treating us all as if we are wacky is obviously a mistake. I think the service department has to learn to give the customer the benefit of the doubt. The main issue here is a substandard warranty, If you had published it I would not have purchased the cartridge which is why you did not publish it. But, even after the warranty period issues due to faulty materials and workmanship can occur and taking care of these issues is great and inexpensive marketing. In this case I think the problem was manifest all along it just took the right conditions for me to notice it. I think you should show your superiors this thread and revamp your system. MoFi can not afford issues like this. It's reputation is already in the dog house. |
@cleeds \ No, not that I am aware of. I can't say what it was exactly Lew. A filament is the best description I could come up with. It was covered in glue. It crossed over both leads, it was involving the left channel and I could find no other irregularities. Until I set it up and have a listen for myself I can not be sure it has been fixed. It works but that does mean it has been fixed. |
The repairs made to this cartridge are not going to change the sonic characteristics of this cartridge in any way. Nor did the original fault which was a noise in the left channel some 50-60 dB down. It will be easy to determine if the cartridge is fixed. The noise is either there or it is not. As for your comments on the pricing of this cartridge, the same can be said of any cartridge imported into this country, more so for any cartridge coming from Japan. The problem is if you buy the cartridge outside the usual channels the warranty is voided. The only company we Americans can deal with directly is Grado and I'd bet dollars to donuts I can get a better deal from any number of dealers than from Grado directly on one of their cartridges. You are correct in saying that I have said on any number of occasions, the only place to get a cartridge rebuild is the original manufacturer and I stick to that opinion, but in this case I was given no choice. The cartridge did not need to be rebuilt. It just needed a little repair which MoFi refused to do. At least now I can get my money's worth out of this cartridge. I will not be buying another and not because it is not a fine cartridge. |
Thank You. Steven Leung was a pleasure to deal with and I highly recommend his services, but other than repairing the MSL's defect he had no role in the quality of it's reproduction. This lies entirely with the designer Matsudaira san. Mr Leung does make his own cartridge, the Nova Signature for a very competitive price and I am very interested in giving it a spin. The value of the cartridge is a consideration only if you plan on selling it which I do not. I do not sell cartridges, I give them away or toss them in the trash. The technology has usually moved on and why spend $5000 to rebuild it if you are not guaranteed to get that back. I prefer to let the recipient deal with it. I had a brief email conversation with Jon. He offered to look at the cartridge which had already been mailed to VAS. He did suggest having a phone conversation, but at that point I did not feel the need. |