Well that bites. Glad I don't use 6922 family tubes. That said, every tube I have ever tried, has had it's own easily-discernible sound.
6922 tube
I have a Cayin CD17 Mark1, takes 2 6922 unbalanced (which i run in) and 2 balanced(which i never will use), So I hada tube flipping business that went sour = lost $$$$,,anyway,, started buying all sorts, A-Z 6922/6dj8,7dg8, ecc88, cc88, etc etc, 188's, 288's, etc etc, I;'ve heard nearly every variety/lab of this variant.
= all sounded nearly identical..
Now maby in your Acoustic reserach a 6922 can be diciphered from others,,but in my cayin CD17, all sound nearly identical.
So I figured, <<must be the circuitry = not so sensitive as per tube typology>> , long story short,, one of the 288's, were bad, amperex, like $125 each,,so a friend lent me a pair of russian military Gold Aero,,,pulg them in,,, wow, my system went sour., after all my countless mods, with super high tech parts, were made ~~null and VOID~~~,,all over a pair of 6922 russian Gold Aero military tubes,, He says they are actually not 6922;'s, but,, can't recall the specific name of this tube.
But its far and away from a true musical 6922.
While every other Tele, Siemens, vavlo (both Red print and White) Philips RCA , GE etc etc ETCCCCC,,all sound nearly exact..
~~~~~Bottom line~~~ Do not waste your money buying the Tele 6922 pair froma german seller for $1500, nor others selling any /all variety of 6922 for over say,,,$20 each,m, Yep you heard me right,, You should never ever pay more than $20 for any 6922 type tube.
All those countless $50-$1500 and maybe even $2500 fora pair of NOS 6922 is pure 100$ snakeoil.
Now a AX and a AU, now here we do indeed hear minisclue differences, which make me a fan of Tele and only the Tele. a Tele offers in my system superior resolution.. Not by much,, but as i've said countless times in all my threads,, a nunace here, a miniscule there, a tweak here, a upgrade there = all adds up to a superior sound.
a 6922= 6dj8 = 7dj8, ecc88, =cc88 = 188 =288,,However my tech guy who lent me the russian non muiscal 6922, said this player is best using any 6922, except the 288... has a dif heater value.
So do not waste your money thinking a over $50 pair of 6922's will improve your sound.
A Tele 6922 is not superior to any 6922(preferable USA/EU) ever made.(just make sure its not chinese= I do not like chinese pretubes>>> nor russian military),,I have a quad of EH's comming in 1 week,, that is one 6922 I've not heard,,will report ASAP.
rant over.
Snakeoil buster here,
,strikes again..
Toucheeee
= all sounded nearly identical..
Now maby in your Acoustic reserach a 6922 can be diciphered from others,,but in my cayin CD17, all sound nearly identical.
So I figured, <<must be the circuitry = not so sensitive as per tube typology>> , long story short,, one of the 288's, were bad, amperex, like $125 each,,so a friend lent me a pair of russian military Gold Aero,,,pulg them in,,, wow, my system went sour., after all my countless mods, with super high tech parts, were made ~~null and VOID~~~,,all over a pair of 6922 russian Gold Aero military tubes,, He says they are actually not 6922;'s, but,, can't recall the specific name of this tube.
But its far and away from a true musical 6922.
While every other Tele, Siemens, vavlo (both Red print and White) Philips RCA , GE etc etc ETCCCCC,,all sound nearly exact..
~~~~~Bottom line~~~ Do not waste your money buying the Tele 6922 pair froma german seller for $1500, nor others selling any /all variety of 6922 for over say,,,$20 each,m, Yep you heard me right,, You should never ever pay more than $20 for any 6922 type tube.
All those countless $50-$1500 and maybe even $2500 fora pair of NOS 6922 is pure 100$ snakeoil.
Now a AX and a AU, now here we do indeed hear minisclue differences, which make me a fan of Tele and only the Tele. a Tele offers in my system superior resolution.. Not by much,, but as i've said countless times in all my threads,, a nunace here, a miniscule there, a tweak here, a upgrade there = all adds up to a superior sound.
a 6922= 6dj8 = 7dj8, ecc88, =cc88 = 188 =288,,However my tech guy who lent me the russian non muiscal 6922, said this player is best using any 6922, except the 288... has a dif heater value.
So do not waste your money thinking a over $50 pair of 6922's will improve your sound.
A Tele 6922 is not superior to any 6922(preferable USA/EU) ever made.(just make sure its not chinese= I do not like chinese pretubes>>> nor russian military),,I have a quad of EH's comming in 1 week,, that is one 6922 I've not heard,,will report ASAP.
rant over.
Snakeoil buster here,
,strikes again..
Toucheeee
37 responses Add your response
Well that bites. Glad I don't use 6922 family tubes. That said, every tube I have ever tried, has had it's own easily-discernible sound
As stated in my OP, every tube does havea ceratin voicing,, the lone exception is the entire family of 6922's. Don't get me wrong,,I love the 6922 sound, I have no issues with the 6922. Its just, don't spend any more than say $50 a pair, TOPS, $55 is over priced,, That includes Teles NOS in boxes,..listing at $$$$ On Ebay,, Those Tele NOS will sound exactly like the $25 each X brand on ebay. |
| Post removed |
I purchased my BAT VK-D5 in the early Nineties. It takes six 6922 family tubes. Tried a wide variety of the best I could find (Amperex, Teles, etc) and could even tell the differences between the earlier years of the Siemens CCa. Especially between the silver shield/internal date code and grey shield/external dates. Six of those grey shields to install and another sextet for backup, cost half as much as the CDP itself. I almost wish I couldn’t hear the differences, so..........NAH (not a chance)! |
mozartfan, I advise you to change the way you go about building your system. I think I recall another thread where you were swapping between different tube types in the 12xx7 family of tubes without finding out if the different tube types were compatible with your gear. If that was not you, my apologies. Slow down. Learn before you buy. There are tube dealers who will talk to you about what tubes may give you the sound you want. The way you have approached tube rolling is a sure-fire way to spend a lot of money and end up disappointed. Differences between tubes are not snake oil, but they are not always night and day different either. I'm sorry to hear about your disappointment with the 6922, but I think you will eventually find the whole idea of high-end audio to be snake oil if you continue to approach it in the same way you did these tubes. |
"care to elaborate on how you tell a Tele from a Amperex?? please?" EASY; the Amperex (early Sixties, Navy 6922) was a little warmer than the long-plate Tele, in the mids. Compared to Teles and Siemens; the Brit tubes (ie: Mullard, Brimar) reminded me of glazed donuts. Just not my taste, in food or sound. Every NOS tube I tried had a more extended and more solid bottom-end, better sound stage, tone, etc, than the six Sovteks that were stock in the CDP. |
| Post removed |
taste, in food or sound. Every NOS tube I tried had a more extended and more solid bottom-end, better sound stage, tone, etc, than the six Sovteks that were
Exactly My friend lent mea pair of <<Sovteks>> = Military crap. Yes every USA/EU 6922 is far far superior to any Sovtek which as you say comes with some units. I have a quad of EH's arriving,,hoping they can meet EU standards. My unit is sensitive,, or how would I know the Sovs sounded anti-musical,, those were built for battle eqip , not hifi. Again, I stand by my thesis, that every EU/USA 6922, the sonics are so close,, its a mini-minscule dif in sonics.. Now its true I have made some changes in my system,, perhaps now the difs may be herad more clearly,,, But at this point, I have no cash for rolling tubes,, The point of this topic is don't spend big cash on 6922;'s, as these are not made with the same sensitivity as the AX/AU.. Now in these 2 pre tubes, sure each brand will have more nuances in sonics.. Not much, but enough to make me a solid fan of Tele and no others. But as far as 6922, my top budget is 25 a tube, as the sonic difs ,, I am more than confident are so mini-scule,, makes no sense spending more than $25/each. My posts are locked in google now, So if in decades to come, someone is researching 6922 shootout,,he'll read my posts and save his cash for other tweaks. This is the purpose of my topic,, and not to convince you hard liners in this snakeoil of 6922 high priced tubes. |
I didn’t mention the two ARC preamps (SP-9 and SP-14), I owned before the BAT CDP. Both of which also displayed remarkable differences in presentation, with various 6DJ8/6922/E88CC iterations. Didn’t matter where the tubes where manufactured. Of course; who am I, to tell another what valuation to place on their system’s presentation, or- it’s possible enhancement? The Audio Pope? |
Ok so general consensus is there is more than justa nuance dif, they all voice distinctly different, Ok, lets put this to the test I want everyones general vote on one, Uno, not 2, just 1, as the <best/superior/king/champion of all 69222's, in terms of Soundtage/resolution of freqencies, separation of instruments, liquid mids, sparkle highs, voices the human voice near perfect.. (provided we are assuming, all other components are able to match this feat of a perfect 6922). As in the Olympics , there can only be 1 Gold Medal,, (which isa scam of sorts, as in swimmers, the silver taking 2nd medal only due to a loss of .001 second, which on the next day , who knows the silver may have beaten the Gold place)) anyway, only 1 6922 can win as Premier, As in AX,AU's only Tele's reign as Gold Medals, all others 2nd place. So which is it?? This I just got to hear,, everyone will have their own pick. Which leads me to my testing on at least 40 NOS EU 6922's, = all sounded near <<Identical>> Nope , ain;'t buying folks, Sorry to go against the popular vote. Besides construction looks identical ,, no one here could say this is that lab, this is this,,w/o print on tube. whereas a Tele AU/AX are distinctly not like all the others. Tele AU/AX's has a slight edge vs all others. I am talling nuance,, Some of you are saying there are HUGE, Grand Canyon size differences in sonics twix 6922's. How is this even remotely possible, when if there is no print on the tube, you can not tell me the brand?? a 6922 = any other 6922. = a 188 = 288, etc..(exception are the chinese/russian tubes, russia and china never did nor ever will make a good sonics pre tube) The New EH's are copies and good copies on any EU NOS. |
I should have mention,, the pair of russian tubes lent to me are/are not actual sovtek,,, they have some odd number to them,, But lender (Richard Gray) did say they are Sovtek's.. But also said they are ****, which is some odd 6922, *original sovtek?) anyway,,here is a YT vid, Sovtek vs Tesla,, (should say, I HATE any Tesla, so huge bias there),,some comments prefered the Sovtek,, as i also prefered the Sovtek's. Not a fair shootout as Tesla is the lowest grade of all EU tubes. Tell ya what,, i will have my tube guy in washington state send me some 6922's, and will make some tests. I'll try to reopen my mind about a 6922 variants. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev5I9qMWFOg |
,, But not sure if my Cayin CD17 is sensitive enough to pick up these nuances,, I'm thinking glad i only paid $25 for a EH quad,, I don't like that design,, but when they arrive, I'll find out,,So yeah,, eventually i 'll save up for a pair of Tele's.. In this shootout I give the edge nuances to the Tele's. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxPbvizQneU I will say this, more bigger nuances to gain via new caps vs new tubes. Tubes only make a slight nuance, whereas new caps, a medium size nuance. |
Subjectively, I prefer the cleanest, least colored sound, most 3D staging, most accurate tonality, I can get. The Germany and Dutch Post shared that preference (back when/probably didn't care about sound stage) and contracted, "specially selected" tubes, for their services. Make mine the early Sixties, grey shield, large halo, external date code, CCa. ie: https://www.tubemuseum.org/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=SH%5FCCa%5Fsingle Of course, as subjective and varied as listener tastes are; many absolutely love what seems to me the smothering warmth/glazed sweetness of the British tubes. The early Sixties Amperex that I've tried, weren't as warm, but still...... I understand: Different strokes and all that. When I had my shoppe, in Orlando, FL; I accommodated any and all tastes. |
Other than etched codes, stamped-internal-ID-plates & Telefunken diamond bottoms I learned to ID 6922 types by their internal construction. Japanese produced 6922 types are a bit tricky to ID as they used Amperex/Philips Euro parts and machinery, but there are subtle differences nonetheless. The stencil/label is the last thing I would use to ID a tube. You list RCA, which never manufactured a 6922 type, so what were they really? I've had RCA labeled 6922 type tubes that were manufactured by Siemens, Tungsram and Sylvania. If your GE 6922 types were not a smoked glass 6dj8 (the only 6922 type they ever produced) then what were they? Not familiar with your Cayin CD17, but would not use E288cc or the Russian 6H30 without checking with Cayin first. DeKay |
@motzartfan- Should you decide have your tube guy send samples to compare; these pages can offer ideas, far as what to request and sonics to expect: http://hktubeaudio.homestead.com/files/6dj8.html, https://www.head-fi.org/threads/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes.76107... and: http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm |
The 6922 is an excellent tube. ARC used it exclusively for quite a while. The only real difference between 6922s even of the same manufacture is noise levels. I hate to sound like a stuck record but RAM Labs tests every single tube, prices and sells them by noise level. I use their Super Low Noise 6922s in my ARC phono amp and they are an easy 10 dB quieter than the tubes that came with it. They are also $90 a pop and in a phono amp worth every penny. |
I've tried several NOS 6922 pairs in my VAC preamp and settled on 1961 NOS Amperex after finding the Mullards a bit too warm and Siemens much too bright. The Dutch made Bugle Boys were my goldilocks tubes ;-)
OK now this is a good report,, Look since my 6922 tube rolling some months ago,, I"ve employed quitea few upgardes throughout my system = higher sensitivty = better able to hear dif's in various 6922's. So my OP could be dated/bias/needs futher explanations. Thus I have purcahsed 1) quad EH6922 2) Quad Tele PCC88 3) pair of JJ's. Now when these arrive next week, I will be able to make a more clear determination as to how valid or worthless (=BS) is the content of my OP. I could indeed be wrong, all due to multi new upgardes ,,,all which came AFTER I made The Great 6922 tube roll. As I say, it is these early russian 6922 **military* tubes which alerted my attention that the circuitb in my cayin CD17, might acutally be more sensitive than I am aware. New upgardes, caps, resistors, high quality silver cables throughout system,,might now have bumped up the sensitivty of whatever tube goes in the cayin 17. We must keep in mind,a new cap, will send shock waves throughout the system,, Certain weaknesses/strengths will begin to show up with employinga new cap, new resistor, new style tube, new component. We will find out shortly is all 69922's are near equal, or not. Stay tuned,,will report test findings, ASAP. |
If you want to waste your money rolling tubes and hallucinating Here is where the trouble always starts. People try to present what they hear with their ears in their system as universal truths instead of their personal experience. We could stop a lot of arguments if people would just remember that what they hear is not what everyone else hears. |
I could completely ignore this brand of discourse, but for one nagging feeling. The thought that someone, just getting into tubes, might buy into this naysayer nonsense and be deprived of the greatest thing about valved gear. ie: A greatly enhanced capability/possibility to flavor a system, exactly to one's own tastes. I believe dissuading another of experimenting on their own, with the own system, in their own room, with their own ears, is contrary to the heartbeat of this website (regardless of the immediate topic). At least; what seemed the heartbeat, a few years back. Just my opinion and last post, in this thread (and everyone said, "AMEN!"). |
Here you can actually see the sovtek 6922 which i mention in the OP, Although I appreciate a friend lending me a pair, this tube is anti-music, completely destroys the beauty of the Cayin Cd17 Mark1 go to 1:12 to see this most putrid sounding 6922. It was made for miltary machines, not audio. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev5I9qMWFOg&t=25s |
Yes The Takman's REY are everything <<and more>> that takman claims about the perf of their resistors. Not the Rex carbon, which are too smooth for my system. has to be Metal = Rey's. Richard only swaped out 2 pairs so far,,results= can hear distinctly every word Elvis Costello sings in his Burt Bacharach collection,,,instrments are not articulated,,, open airy,,,have many more to swap out. p Vid just uploaded 10 minutes ago take a listen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7iPHN9r_SY |