21 year old AV receiver - waiting for the end?

I had an old Parasound AV2500 home theater preamp that I loved, so much that when it died (and to answer part of your question, it just died in the night and would no longer turn on), I found a used one to replace it. These go back about 25+ years. But when the second one started acting up (it would switch off for no reason, although disconnecting the power would bring it back) I decided to bite the bullet and get something new. Wow, what a surprise! My new Marantz sounds cleaner, and has so many bells and whistles that the old unit didn’t. I’m sorry I waited so long to take the plunge. 

My Harman Kardon Citation 22 amps, Citation 25 preamps, and Citation 23 tuners are over 30 years old. Same with my HK CD players.

Over the past year or two some things started to fail. I'm almost done getting everything refurbished. Some things are getting even better parts than what they came with for better than new sound. This is all costing a fraction of what new equipment would set me back.

I did look at new equipment. For my tastes, it would have cost about 20 grand, not including new speakers. Hey, why not? For a system that sounds good to me it's worth that, but........ How long will the new stuff last? I asked more than a few folks. I said "anywhere near as long as my old stuff lasted?" All I got was laughter and replies of 8-10 years if I am really lucky. No brainer, get the old stuff refurbed.

It sounds great to me as it's what I'm accustomed to. I did buy a bunch of new Audioquest Tower interconnects and it sounds a bit better for it. Way better than the original $2 cords that came with the stuff 30+ years ago.

It's your money and your ears. Do what pleases you. There are places that will repair your gear, you just may have to pack it well and ship it.

Not worth replacing when it does go, but no reason to junk it until then.  If you are worried that there might be a gap of time between when it goes and when you settle on a replacement, you can probably pick up a used AVR of more recent vintage for next to nothing.  Just verify that it works at time of purchase, keep it around in reserve, and when the Arcam dies use it as a temporary stopgap.  I have an old Pioneer AVR in the basement that I used as a preamp for a few weeks when  my Cary preamp needed some maintenance 

@soix - great advice. Now I feel bad for telling my wife to remember to turn it off all the time. She was right after all! 

@erik_squires I'll shoot for those ten years! Maybe I could start a pool on when it dies? Gambling is probably against forum rules...

@roxy54

So many times I’ve tried to tell contrary and that many times verified that it is inferior and it is overpriced pretty much anything

@akg_ca

Fixing Rotel AVR for about $250 worth if necessary when the time comes, but while it’s still alive, no need to bother and no need to worry and no need to listen stories about smoke and be terrified about that.

@czarivey

I always send all my stuff to independent professional techs for my service and repairs ,unless it’s under still under warranty that requires dealer documentation support to send it to a distributor designated repair shop,

I have my current trusted local independent pro tech Audiofave who is top shelf: European trained, prompt, experienced and fair price,

. Who can ask for more? Contemporaneously, he is the designated Canadian shop for seversl of the major Brit and Euro audio product Canadian distributors.

WRT dealers, there is a hierarchy of after-sale support : a paltry few of longstanding larger audio bricks and mortar ones with an in-house seasoned tech, and 99% have their own designated fave independent 3rd party. In the 45 years in this hobby, I know them all within a 150 mile radius. And the numbers keep dwindling over the years .

Of course we all intuitively trend to the independent shop for convenience and price and service …the challenge is finding a good and trusted one. I have a ranking list of quality types, and they all currently all decline AVR repairs out of warranty.
They all sing from the same songsheet …..dem’s da breaks …( 2-Channel audio  …all good … no problem ) 

As you point out, maybe you can go find SOMEBODY to fix the issue SOMEWHERE …. But At pro tech rates generally north of a $100 an hour and up …it’s all competitive and not insignificant.

. How much cash and personal time are most forum fans herein going to invest in a 20 year Uber-old AVR with an estimated best case minimal market FMV that will be dwarfed by the actual new costs to upgrade or repair it.?

carry on and choose wisely, sir.

@czarivey  been lately disappointed with pretty much ANYTHING new today so newer-better thing may hurt financially and functionally."

A senseless blanket statement. So, you're saying that everything new is overpriced and inferior. 

@akg_ca 

I have a safe assumption that nearest tech can be found in less civilized nations such as Mexico, Cuba, some parts of Europe, plenty can be found in Eastern Europe including Russian Federation. 

In fact anywhere where people aren't learning at school to live for the cost of the others, but learning how to create things on their own, there are techs that can repair pretty-much anything...

Canada and USA have very limited quantity and they soon become first very poor sited and using walker then we are all not forever after all. 

Any sources or entities you've listed meant to have someone knowledgeable to handle problems, but, after you've mentioned DEALERS -- gimme break as you're not looking the right places. Maybe you'll find one in the Slab City -- BIG CHANCE

@czarivey

no QUALITY pro techs anywhere near me in Toronto within a three hour driving time radius will  service AVRs that are not still under “useful” warranty, …for the two reasons I highlighted .

They are quite clear, and unambiguous…. “No Thanks” .and concise upfront.

SOURCE :

(1) CANUCKAUDIOMART posts coast to coast repeatedly highlight and emphasize this, and it’s also bolstered my personal direct experiences. It’s a frequent recurring CAM query popping up at least monthly, for someone desperately pleading for an AVR repair fix .

(2) That sentiment is also been personally confirmed with the major bricks and mortar dealers that I’ve personally contacted (the majority) .

Similarly, dealers won’t take in ANY AVR on a dealer trade-in that is out of warranty either . I had a discrete HT system $6000 7.1 AVR that was within 6 months of its warranty expiry date, that all dealers would not take in on a trade . Sobering experience…. Never to buy another AVR again … embryonic boat anchors and a poor investment LT. Fortunately I was able to sell it privately and move on to 7.1 system discrete quality 2-3-2 YBA power amps , and a quality 7.1 AV pre-amp /.processor ( the latter is a pre-planned and expiring usefulness = a disposable as the CODECS change);.

Maybe you have a different local tech service AVR experience …. great ….. carry on …. BUT it sure as sh*t is not universal unfortunately.

@akg_ca

Techs won’t touch them because of two main reasons:

(1) Replacement Parts are unavailable and the only possible source is Frankesteining from another old sold-for-parts unit , if even possible.. In your very old model case, it’s a Hail Mary case, at best. Techs intuitively won’t invest valuable time to source this.

(2) The costs to potentially fix it invokes a further not insignificant labour cost . In the end, their final parts and labour and taxes invoice to you will grossly exceed its FMV. Techs prior experience in resulting bad debts risk predicates a hard “pass” from the get-go

Not sure what you mean by "Techs", because I have slightly different opinion -- an opinion of a tech. I own Sunfire SRA amplifier that was built around that era and started HUMMING pretty LOUD... Guess What? Few caps and transistor had been identified in the driving stage while the output stage and large filter caps were perfectly fine. Now the transistor isn't the one that was original -- found NTE replacement and BOOM -- back in business no sound quality compromise.

Many techs can ID problems without having any circuit diagram by tracing hum with either oscilloscope or headphones.

All parts are being re-marked and often manufactured with different names and markings as equivalents to the prior parts. After techs had identified the problem(if any) they will try to find OG part and if not, they will find an equivalent part.

To the best of my knowledge, your unit built in 2002 is repairable and serviceable.

@roxy54 ...Had been lately disappointed with pretty much ANYTHING new today so newer-better thing may hurt financially and functionally.

There might be a little smoke and smell.  there might be some static or hum.  

But most likely one channel will quietly quit making music.

Jerry

Thanks. I'm probably not going to put effort or money into it, but I can't help anthropomorphize it a bit - it has been faithful member of the household for two decades.

Give it another 10 years. :)

Open your wallet and get something new and better. It won't hurt too much.

If you use it almost every day and considering its age I’d recommend leaving it on 24/7 — unless you’re leaving home for several days — rather than constantly turning it on and off almost every day (if that’s what you’re doing).  And I agree you should not sink one dime into servicing it and put any of those $$$ toward a new AVR instead.  Hope it continues to soldier on for you though!

Thanks. I'm probably not going to put effort or money into it, but I can't help anthropomorphize it a bit - it has been faithful member of the household for two decades.

Kind of depends, but caps going out can cause a cascade of failures. Of all the parts in your receiver, the caps are the easiest to find appropriate replacements for. It’s anything made out of silicon which can fail and have no replacement for. Transistors, CPUs, movie sound processing, etc.

Transistors are kind of iffy, depending on the parts originally used, they can go out of manufacture and have no reasonable replacement.

IMHO, having the unit recapped is a reasonable effort and will probably save you problems down the road. I think reaching out to a shop and being clear that you just want the power caps replaced should get you further along. Modern caps are smaller, longer lived and higher temp (longer endurance). Finding appropriate replacements even for 40 year old gear solid state gear should be reasonably easy.

Looking at a picture of the insides, the power supply layout is pretty traditional. 4 large caps right next to the large power transformer.  These would be easy to replace.

Another thing to consider is that caps made in the 21st century are a lot better than made in the 1980s. You may have more life in them than you’d have thought otherwise.

Techs won’t touch them because of two main reasons:

(1) Replacement Parts are unavailable and the only possible source is Frankesteining from another old sold-for-parts unit , if even possible.. In your very old model case, it’s a Hail Mary case, at best. Techs intuitively won’t invest valuable time to source this.

(2) The costs to potentially fix it invokes a further not insignificant labour cost . In the end, their final parts and labour and taxes invoice to you will grossly exceed its FMV. Techs prior experience in resulting bad debts risk predicates a hard “pass” from the get-go.

TAKEAWAY

Your AVR has run its useful life and it’s an embryonic boat anchor in the making. Don’t throw more money at it. It’s going to die at some point, so it’s time to move on…full stop