Zu Omen or Tekton Lore

04-08-11: Zmanastronomy
My Listsning room is small, so I can't put a $30,000 speaker in there to see if it's better or not. It would surely overpower my room."

The key for me was that I tried for years to get big speakers to sound good (Maggie 12s and 1.6, ML Ascent, KHorns, others) in my 12' x 13' room. The first full rangers I got were the Tekton Katz and I was amazed at how much better they played in the small room, and how they filled the room with only 4 watts. Same with the Omens. An eye opening experience to say the least.
I would guess that there are many out there that look at some of these full rangers, or read stuff in these forums, and think they won't work even if they are in a small room. I'm glad I took the chance. I really don't see myself changing around much any time soon.

04-08-11: Sebrof "The Lore and Omen are so close in design I can't imagine that one would be head and shoulders over the other."

They are close in design, yes... but the Lore uses a completely different tweeter - that alone will change the sound, and on top of that the whizzer is in tact and the cabinet is braced and damped to a higher standard, as well as tuned differently. All of that will add up to a different sound - how much different none of us know, yet...

As for your situation, I agree and I never meant any disrespect by what I said, and at this point none of us know the margin anyway. It is good to have diversity... but I am definitely not over the top on what I say. The Lore purchase finally got me off the speaker go around.., and that for me is reason to rejoice!!

YAY! government shutdown averted, so I will call Eric and order a pair of Lores. Any Amp suggestions? I was thinking either Decware Zen Triode or the Peachtree iDecco.

I used a Decware se84cs and it was decent, but no where near the level of the Quicksilver Mini Mites! Try and go for 15+ watts if you are looking for full potentional. Eric has suggested 20+ watts. I would think the Peachtree would be really nice, although not at the level of Quicksilvers but i realize you get allot in the Peachtree package. Congrats by the way!!

As for wattage, the 25 watts/channel of my Dayens Ampino has been PLENTY for my 8 X 15 X 22 ft living room with significant sized opening to dining room.

I've spent a good amount of time this weekend working on subwoofer integration with the Lores. With the Hornshoppe speakers, the last couple octaves of bass are just completely missing. My subwoofer was pretty much on its own with anything under 100 hz or so. My microphone on pink noise measures the Lores performing down to 30 hz before really trailing off. I find the Lore bass to be there, but to be a bit light for my tastes and in my room. Subwoofer supplementation is definitely desirable for me. It's definitely much trickier to have to integrate a third bass driver into the room, though. The EQ curves I have to work up in my Behringer are more difficult, and then there's always a difference between the measurement and what my ears are telling me.

I find the bass quite tuneful and articulate with the Lores, but in my opinion they do need some support for weight in the bass arena and also deepest extension.

At this point, the Lores have about 25 hours of solid performance on them. I wouldn't say that they have opened up substantially more since about the first 10 hours, but I have been listening to them almost continuously, so I'm probably not noticing changes if they are happening gradually.

One concern that has arisen involves some of the mp3's I've played. Most of my collection is lossless ripped from my CD collection. However, I do have some mp3's downloaded from the internet, at various bitrates. I have found with a significant number of these mp3's that volume peaks create a "popping" or "ticking" sound in the tweeter. It's significant enough for most of those songs to make them unlistenable. It's not my amp clipping, as the popping happens no matter the volume of playback. It's the way the Lores are working with the signal itself. Not sure why Lores would be different, but the Hornshoppe speakers never did this on these same files, nor did Omega Compact Hemps or Tyler Acoustics Linbrook Monitors I've had. I hope this situation resolves itself with further burn-in.

Genjamon, I am having the same situation with my Lores. I have about 70 hrs. on them , but feel they are a bit bright and lack the lower bass . This week I will add my subwoofer to them , just for kicks . I do not use mp3s so I do not have any advice for that problem.

Question, what color is that driver? In some pics it looks blue and in others it looks gray. Does it not come in black?

Genjamon,

Where do you have the crossover set for your sub? And are you using a filter to take some of the low freq loas off of the Lore driver?

On the mp3 problem, I would check with Eric. Popping or ticking suggests a tweeter problem.

Please do keep us informed on all of this.

Switched back to Itunes to try out those mp3's this afternoon, and no ticking/crackling. I was using Decibel as my player. Looks like I need to have a chat with Steve Booth about what his software might be doing. He might be able to identify the issue and include a fix in his next Decibel update.

I wouldn't say the Lores are overly bright for my taste - I'd say they're just about right, but I'm using a good combination of absorption and diffusion acoustic treatments in my room, so that probably helps a good bit.

I'm not using any filtering on the Lores in the bass dept - they're running full-range. I'm not interested in doing filter unless absolutely necessary. I have some of Ed Schilling's magic cables going from my amp outputs to the line-level inputs on my Behringer EQ, the the EQ outputs to the subwoofer line level inputs. Crossover point is about 100 hz, but that's deceiving. I have a lot of cutting in the EQ curve throughout the bass freqs, but I'm battling a healthy null around 70 hz in my room, despite good bass trapping.

I'd call the driver a slightly blueish gray. Not the perfect match with a wood veneer in my opinion, but I don't notice it as much as when they first arrived. Not really a big deal to me. I have much worse aesthetic issues in my living room than these minor issues on otherwise very fetching speakers. I did suggest to Eric he should consider grills an option, especially for wood veneers. He said he's been looking into it with an industrial engineer, and he hopes to offer a retrofit for those who already have Lores and would like grills. He didn't mention anything about timeline. Honestly, if faced with the prospect of shipping costs to and from Eric and also time without the speakers, I'd probably be fine not even going for grills. I'd sure miss the tunes while they're away.

Thanks for the crossover info. I have found that taking some of the load off my main drivers by using both a high and low pass filter really improved things. Not sure if this was due to taking the load off my main speaker amp or from taking the load off the speakers...

Worth experimenting with perhaps.

Thanks for the info and glad the mp3 problem isn't with the speaker

Light in the bass? I never considered the Lore to be light in the bass. It's not earth shattering bass. It's very ballanced and not dominant. Bass is a personal preferance to most people. Some people just want big bass and everything else is secondary. I like a ballance with a little slam when slam is needed.
Room placement will definatly help out in the bass department.
I'd much rather have clean bass than more bloated bass.
Deeper bass would be nice, but for what it has, it's very clean and to my liking.
Just my opinion.

In regard to Cwazz comment about them being bright: understand that the Lore is not a rolled off sound. It took me a little while to get used to this aspect of them. I've had bright / hot sounding speakers before and the Lore is not that. Actually, it pains me to even hear someone say that, because I am EXTREMELY sensitive to bright sounding speakers and these would have been out the door quick if that were trhe case. I can’t even listen to some Monitor Audio speaker for instance.

If you are experiencing some issues with brightness, I would strongly advise to check out the rest of your chain and look closely at your room. At 98db eff. and this full range driver, they are going to reveal EVERYTHING. If you are after a warmer sound, there are plenty of loudspeakers out there that roll things off. Also, no speaker will sound good a brittle room, although a warmer speaker might be easier on the ears.

Now, in regard to the light bass comment... understand that the Lore is not going to kick you in the chest at 30hz. It would unwise to believe that any $1,000 speaker could do that, unless it was seriously compromised in other (and likely all) other areas.

Genjamon - I am also surprised to hear you find Lores are light in the bass. My Omens with the 10"er are anything but light, I even had to raise them a little (they port out the bottom) to get the bass right. I would assume the 10"er on the Lore would be similar in this regard.
Have you used that amp with other speakers?
Have you played with positioning?
Or maybe you're just a bass freak :) What's your point of reference?

RE: bright comment.

When I was breaking in my Lores, I was using entry level Nordost cable. The sound was very thick in the bottom end, and the presentation tilted to the side of warm. It was nice, but I felt like I may have been missing some resolution and fidelity. When I switched the Q Audio litz wire, I was no less then ‘shocked’ by the result (for more info see my Q cable review at Audioreview.com). It was like someone turned on the lights in my system. It sounded a little bright at first, because I was hearing all of these high frequencies that were previously rolled off! It also sounded a little thinner than it was, but I soon realized that this was a more natural and accurate presentation then what I had been used to. When the recording is true to it, there is plenty of bass and all of that natural tone I desire. I am simply relying on the recordings to deliver that, and not the flavor of the system. For those of you after a certain type of “flavor,” a revealing loudspeaker such as this may not be the ticket.

Anyway, after it settled in, and I get used to it, I loved it! I simply won’t use another cable with the Lores now. Granted, keep in mind I am using some serious amplifiers. The Quicksilver Mini Mites, though not expensive, are the best sanely priced amps I have heard and changes in cables can make dramatic differences (same is true with all good tube gear).

Now if I was to walk downstairs and hook this cable up in my HT system with a Denon receiver, Blu-ray player, and Kirksaeters, then it is not going to make such a dramatic difference.

I cannot stress how important a front end and cables are when one gets to this level of equipment. I am not sure how much experience some of you have, but the output you get is to the result of the sum of the inputs. These speakers were born for a good tube front end, period. If you are using solid state, you may not be getting the entire picture (with these speakers, IMHO of course).

I'm using Anti-Cables speaker cables and Signal Cable silver interconnects. Pangea and Signal power cords. No power treatment.

I would say I DO want my system to be able to kick me in the chest at 30 hz if that's what the music or soundtrack calls for it. That's why I have a monster subwoofer capable of doing so. I don't expect my main speakers to be able to do it alone, especially in the price range I can afford. That said, I don't like boom and bloom in my bass, so mains with good bass resolution and tone is vital, as is careful integration of subwoofer. That's why I bought the Behringer, to allow me to do this in highly customizable ways with my room's specific acoustic needs.

I have no complaints with the Lores in the bass department. However, if I were to run them absent a subwoofer, in my room, I would find the bass instruments to sound recessed compared to midrange. For instance, I don't want the bass guitar to sound like it's playing second fiddle to electric or acoustic guitar, like the bassist is hanging out way in the background and the vocalist and guitarist are front and center. I like it to sound like bass, drums, guitar, and vocals are all playing at comparable volume levels. Another way I like to judge frequency balance is listening to the drums. From cymbals, to snare, to tom toms, to bass drums, all drums should sound like they are at relatively similar volume levels. If the kick drum sounds quite a bit louder than a solid tom tom or snare hit, the bass is too much.

So, what I do is take that Behringer and a microphone, play some pink noise, do my best to EQ bass to be flat consistent with integration with mid-bass and midrange. This will get the proper EQ for deep bass as well as dealing with the major inevitable wobbles in bass freq. response in most rooms. Then I shut off the pink noise and play a variety of music, musical styles, etc, listening for bass levels that balance as like I described my preferences above. If I need to add or cut gain from the subwoofer, that's what I do. I usually go back and forth adding and cutting a little here or there to get it right for my tastes. After a couple hours, I'm usually pretty satisfied, and when I play a song with a good walking bass from low to high, it sounds pretty balanced to me with good integration to where the subwoofer drops off into mid-bass.

YMMV!

I have the Lores about 18 inches from sidewalls and 35 inches from rear walls. Listening position is about 9-10 feet from each speaker.

Part of the issue for you guys might be that my listening position is in a part of the room with not a lot of bass acoustics reinforcement. i find this easier to get the right EQ across the spectrum. It's just off the center of the room, so I avoid a significant number of specific frequency nulls, but I'm also not getting much wall reinforcement in bass. Therefore, I need subwoofer and EQ for solid bass performance.

Genjamon, it sounds like you know what your doing.
It's all personal taste. If you like it, who are we to say it's not right.
Have fun.
John

"04-11-11: Zmanastronomy
Genjamon, it sounds like you know what your doing.
It's all personal taste."

I second that!! But one thing that did strike me is ... no room treatement. Genj - Have you ever thought of installing some bass traps? I have about 8, 69 x 24 1" panels in my room, some of which a double up to make a "trap" if you will. I find that this keeps the bass in the room where it belongs, though I haven't measured to the level that you do. I tune everything by ear. But it sounds like Genjamon has done a fine job in integrating a subwoofer, and that is not an easy task! Also sounds like he knows live music allot better than I do ;o)

Well, I think there are enough variables with room acoustics and seating position alone to throw the whole question of bass weight up in the air. Then add personal taste on top of that and you really have very little solid foundation for useful comparisons in this kind of internet chat setting.

Basically, no speaker is perfect, but I'm having a grand time with the Lores given the many compromises of in-home sound systems. Maybe someday I'll get around to building a proper outdoor amphitheater so I don't have to deal with these acoustics issues anymore... ;)

One last question before placing an order. What's the consensus on bass response. I like BIG bass as I listen mostly to Electronic, Jazz and R&B. In the past, I have owned Totem Forest, ACI Sapphire XL, and Ascend Sierra. The Sapphires were my favorite and I am still kicking myself for selling them. Anyway, What's the bass like? I saw one poster say he found them lacking. Anyone else?

I would say that they have a well balanced bass but not a kick in the chest bass. It's an audiophile type bass. Strong but not bloated. YMMV

the above post is right on point. i listen to all genres of music and i never found the bass to be lacking. i use the Lore only for music because i have a separate home theater setup. one caveat, the Lore are being driven by 255 watt SS amp with a high damping factor and the bass is never loose or sloppy. i have not bothered to swap in my lower powered tube amps yet because i'm fine with the current performance.

No direct experience with the Lore, but in my experience with a full range driver design, I have found that the quality and frequency extension of the bass can be very dependent on the damping factor of your amp. I had an Aleph 30 that I loved with the exception of the bass. In my system (96dB sensitivity 12" Audio Nirvana drivers in a bass reflex design, so some similarities to the Lore design), the bass with the Aleph 30 was overdamped due to the high damping factor. With lower damping factor amps (FirstWatt F1, F2J and my current Atma-sphere S-30), the bass sounded much better, with nicer bass extension. But beware that if the damping factor is too low, you can get bass that is loose or sloppy. Hope this helps.

I sure hope to get a chance to hear some Lores with my Atma-sphere. Still fishing around to find a Lore owner in the Chicago area (hint, hint). Otherwise, I will have to just pull the trigger...

I am driving the Lores with a ss 100 watt amp and also tried a 35 watt intergrated tube amp .With both I find them lacking in bass , not saying there is none , just a bit weak . I use them only for music , no ht. They are definitly lacking for a claim of going into the lower 30's .

Cwazz,

What is the damping factor of the amps you used? This can really affect the bass extension. As I mentioned above, I have found that low damping factor amps play very well with full range drivers in ported boxes, as long as they don't lead to the driver becoming underdamped, which would lead to loose and sloppy bass.

It may not be a case of tube vs. solid state, or something that a more powerful amp will fix. I've run my speakers happily with 5W-10W solid state amps (FirstWatt F1 and F2j) with low damping factor with great success. Very satisfying bass. And my Atma-sphere S-30 at 30W also delivers, but I think this again is more due to the low damping factor. Aleph 30, SS design providing 30W by the same designer of the F1 and F2J (Nelson Pass) did not work as well, due largely to the high damping factor which led to my speakers being overdamped. FWIW

I just received shipment of the Lore's last night and was super excited to finally try them out. Eric did a great job of packing them up and sent me easy instructions on how to unpack them correctly.
To avoid a big let-down during my first impression, I talked myself into having low expectations as to how they would sound fresh out of the box (before break-in) but was pleasantly surprised how fantastic they sounded! I started listening to the XX album first and WOW it sounded great. The first thing I noticed was the voice clarity. So smooth and effortless! The next thing that jumped out was the great detail on the highs. The little gold tweeter compliments the driver perfectly. The imaging was also good but I think it will improve a lot more over time. The Lore's easily produce enough bass to rattle the walls but do it without being boomy or overpowering. The only area lacking so far is the mid range, but not by much. I fully expect the mids to fill in as the speakers break in over time.
My initial experience is only based on the first 2-3 hours of runtime on the new Lore's. They have been running ever since so I will have a good 24 hours on them when I get home tonight. I can't wait to see how they progress over time!
Just my $0.02

311 - What amp are you using?

CWazz: What was the 100 watt SS amp that you were trying to use with the Tekton Lores? I'm just curious becuase I have a re-built Hafler DH-220 that I was thinking of using with Tekton speakers. I tried using the DH-220 with an Audio Nirvana 12" FR but in a JE Labs open baffle set-up. I didn't have bass issues but I had imaging issues. Everything seemed low but I don't know if it was due to my preamp at the time or the nature of the OB set-up.

311mph: Glad to hear you got the Lores. Can't wait for the follow-up review after you break them in. I'm interested in your thoughts as the audio equipment I plan to use with Tekton speakers isn't the most expensive.

Sebrof: From a previous post I saw that 311mph was going to use a Outlaw Audio 1070 receiver to power them at first.

Outlaw 1070 integrated-
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/1070.html
I've been very happy with it

Jedinite24,

I am thinking of moving fro Audio Nirvana 12" to the Lores. Do let us know how the two compare if/when you have a chance to compare them.

I have a Counterpoint with a Hafler preamp . I have to admit I think the pre amp is on the bright side. I just want to clarify ,, I do not think these are bad speakers , they are 850 dollar speaker , I have the bubinga finish wich really makes them so much more expensive. Eric did a great job with them . My issue is ,and I even used a 35 watt tube amp , that in my taste the bass is ,,soso, not that there is not any , just not what I thought is advertised or claimed by Eric . If I really thought they were bad , they would have been sent back by now . I have about 100 hrs of time on them so I am still hoping they improve . Any suggestions for a "less brighter" preamp,amp would be appreciated . Thanks.

Cwazz: I would call Eric and speak with him, but it would be worth a try if you want to stay SS, to try a First Watt F3 or F5 or a clone of them. They have great tone, great bass, and are just fun to listen to, but If you really want to go to the kick a** level, then try the Pass XA 30.5. Huge soundstage, great bass, great tone, and a perfect match for high efficient speakers. They pair very well with my Zu Omens and I can't imagine they would be too different for you.

Would you mind shooting me a photo of the Bubinga finish? I was considering a pair to compare to my Zu's and that is the finish I was
considering. What was the added cost for that finish?

As for the pre, you might want to get a tubed pre to bring in a little warmth and also you can roll in different tubes to suit your taste. Having been in a bright system for way too long myself, that really helped me.

Actually for improved bass response, if you are considering the FirstWatt amps, I'd go for the F1, F1J, F2 or F2J. These are current source amps, which do not work with most speakers with crossovers, but I believe will work with the type of crossover the Lore employs (check with Lore & FirstWatt to confirm this!). But an advantage of current source amps is the greater extension in the low frequencies, in addition to the ability to customize this bass response by adding resistors at your speaker inputs.

(Must resist temptation to mention damping factor....Just see my above posts on it, since I have found that this can drastically affect the speaker's bass response).

It has been almost a month now since i picked up my Lore from Eric in Orem Utah. I would love to call myself "Audiophile" but i guess i still have a lot to learn and maybe so many systems to listen to before i can call myself Audiophile.At this point i really don't see the need to listen to many systems in fact after listening to the Lore in my system i would rather be an audio lover then audiophile. Several audiogoner said it early in this forum Do not waist time and any more money and go do yourself a favor and order the LORE..What you will get with the Lore is an absolutely amazing soundstage, fullness awith tons of clarity, details and lovely focus. I used Eminent Technology a while ago and yes you get the sense of more air flowing around the notes but you will not get all the other benefits that the Lore can deliver. So many talk about comparing the Lore to other speakers Well i am glad i didn't have to compare speakers to each others and made a great decision by buying the Lore..

Just got back from Axpona in ATL, and while I heard some really good systems... it was a '180' from what I experienced last year when I came home realizing my VSA Jr Mk II / Parasound combo was just not cutting it.

I am happy to report that my Lore/Quicksilver combo presents the music much more realistic and even better then many $30-40K systems I heard!! Those systems had more spl and deep bass, but there is no way they could match the level of realism of instruments, soundstage depth, and beautiful articulation that my system has.

I bought nothing!! I long for nothing!!! This is a huge win for me!

04-21-11: Gpowered
"I am happy to report that my Lore/Quicksilver combo presents the music much more realistic and even better then many $30-40K systems I heard!!"
I have no trouble believing this.
Amazing how a well thought out system puts a wrench into the law of diminishing return.
Enjoy!

Exactly sebrof!! And when I shared this w/ some people there, they just looked at me like I had 3 heads i.e., 'surely a $3K system can't stand up to this' ... lol.

Too bad it took me 15 systems to figure this out. But hey, wisdom comes at a cost sometimes... especially for those of us that choose to learn the hard way :o(

Ya know, I have to chime in here and say, I to am happy as a clam with my Zu Omen Defs. I am on the same page as Gpowered
with his Lores!
I have heard many systems, and even though I am a speaker
W----, I cannot see myself buying another speaker (Unless it's a bigger & better Zu). In fact, I am on my second pair
of Omen Defs, breaking in with about 70 hours on them now.
Amazed every day! That's something that wore off after a week with most every other speaker I have ever owned!

ok , I am now convinced that Gpowered is really Eric!!!

Maybe just on the payroll.

I am to extremely happy with my Lore. Just added a cayin tube integrated amp and the sound is amazing. I found myself listening to my vinyl collection a lot more then cd or even sacd thanks to the lore and the way it make analogue sound magical

Telescope - That's really saying something 'cause as a fellow Texan I've noticed your many speaker sales.
I feel the same way about my standard Omens as you about the Defs and these other guys about their Tektons. I believe there's a lot to be said for the simplicity these speakers allow.

I also just got a pair of Lore's. They sound very good right out of the box. My temporary apartment is a truly horrible space and can't be acoustically treated right now.

What kind of positioning are the rest of you using? I have them equilateral sitting position, about 8 feet apart, 4 feet from back wall and pointed straight ahead (no toe).

Hahaha. Nice one guys. That would be dishonest, and as a follower of Christ, it would not be feasible nor righteous for me to go about deceiving people like that.

Let's see: I live in Bradenton, FL. Eric is from Utah. I am a Financial Analyst for Cox in Saint Pete. Eric is speaker builder in Utah. I am a Cost Accountant from FL - hardly affiliated.

Cwazz - please don't take this as disrespect, but since you are the only one so far on this thread that has griped about the Lores, and now this funny accusation, I feel compelled to point out that your posts have been inconsistent in nature and contradictory to what most of us are reporting. I am afraid this screams that it is likely you and your setup, and not the speaker. Did you know that up to 60% of the sound you hear is room – especially when turned up!! I have 8, 69x24 sound panels setup strategically in my room, and believe me, it is night and day with and without! It seems like you either have a room issue or electronics issue or both. Also, it could be that you just don’t prefer the way the Lores present the music? That would be ok also. The Lore is a very natural sound with a tremendously deep and layered soundstage if set up correct. They are not loudest, or the most bass, or the warmest, or most colored. Some people just prefer a more colored presentation. The Lores are very revealing of a lesser front end – remember this is a 98db sens. speaker so it is naturally going to reveal what is upstream. Cwazz – if your Lores are setup right, then a guitar pluck should sound that guitar is in the room! A big box brand speaker will likely not do that.

You say you mainly use a 100 watt ss amp, and also 35 watt tubes. Not all amps are created equal, and if your source is lacking, you are really going to hearing a lesser refined sound. You may have a bad match on the front end. You have also been told about damping factor and have been given many suggestions on this thread. Still, your comments are still negative.

If it is big bass over quality bass that you desire, then you bought the wrong speaker. If the highs sound bright to you, then look at your source, or an easy fix would be to damp the room a bit or try different cables. I am willing to bet, it is your placement in the room and electronics. Try setting up some bass traps in the corners and see if it improves. I had an 18” Epik Legend sub once in a different home and room, and bass was weak due to nulls and suck out at certain frequencies in the room.

Please stop misleading people with one or two sentence adverse comments do nothing but scream that you lack experience and quite frankly, that would be perfectly ok but then take some suggestions and let’s move on.

The Joy of the Lord to all of you!

Jarrett,
Your placement sounds great to start. You may want to experiement with toe in. I have mine in toed in a bit. Also, loosen the front spikes and get the speaker tilting back a bit - zman told me about this tweak for single driver speakers and it makes the bass sound even more natural. It is good that you have them off the back wall! If you sit a little but close to them, you should get an amazingly deep sound stage. Also, allow 150 hour for break in! Enjoy!

Cwazz said he likes the Lores but he doesn't find them to be the holy grail...What's the issue? He is relaying his experience with them, which is what he should be doing. Better than commenting on something he's never heard, which happens all the time on these forums.
The Lores seem to be real good speakers. But don't get bent out of shape every time someone says they aren't the best speaker ever in the world ever. Different people have different tastes, rooms, music preferences, etc. etc. Jeez.

I meant an Epik Phoenix sub!! That's what I had not a Legend lol.

Sebrof... I am fine with diverse views - that's what makes the hobby so much fun. I enjoy seeing it through the eyes of others. The issue was the comment about me being Eric, and all of the other negative comments here and there that have no substance. Wondering if he even owns a pair of Lores...

"04-15-11: Cwazz
I have a Counterpoint with a Hafler preamp . I have to admit I think the pre amp is on the bright side."

I didn't see this post from earlier, so my bad on that. It sounds like your expectations are a little different, perhaps because of spending the money on the finish? But after reading this, i think your electronics may be part of your problem. I am not sure about these electronics. You may want to try a more refined preamp like a Conrad Johnson, but i think you would really fare well with a pair of Quicksilver mini's also - i am using them and not lacking bass at all.

Or if you just want to do a preamp fo with the Vincent preamp. I heard Vincent electronics at Axpona this past weekend and they were one of the best rooms for the money.

Lastly, move the speakers around in your room and if bass is still not cutting it, then add the new inexpensive REL T5 sub to the system. That ought to do it.

04-22-11: Gpowered
"Sebrof... I am fine with diverse views - that's what makes the hobby so much fun. I enjoy seeing it through the eyes of others. The issue was the comment about me being Eric, and all of the other negative comments here and there that have no substance. Wondering if he even owns a pair of Lores..."

Fair enough. I think he was joking about you being Eric but who knows.
I see 99 guys raving about the Lores, there's got to be a few guys who say different. Life is never that cut and dry.