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Cwazz - Assuming your Fisher can get you about $400 back in your pocket, allow me to suggest the following amps that are all on Audiogon now - most I have heard minus the Cayin (but I've heard great things about them). All of these should be fairly easy to resell also.
Vincent SP-331 Hybrid (although $700)
Cayin TA-30 Bizzy Bee (this would be my choice)
Jolida JD-302B or 202A
Rega Mira 3 - if you want solid state
I believe any one of these could be a great match for the Lores. It seems like you prefer vintage for front end, no? |
Gpowered , unfortunally the owner had the same idea , it was on loan to me from a freind . thanks for your other suggestions , i am looking a all my options |
Although out of the amps I mentioned, it would be wise to do an analysis based on Rescoe's lesson on damping factor -on the tubes amps that is - we may be more likely to nail the desired outcome |
Zu had a list of amps they tested the Omen with. Best bang for buck accordinig to Zu was the Dynaco which fits your budget. There were quite a few others some of which have been mentioned. |
Well guys, I have some minor apologizing to do. I've been playing around with Lore placement all afternoon. I had done some significant placement experimentation in the first couple weeks and thought I had a good idea of what was going on. A few of you had recommended trying them very close to the front wall as well as others recommended toe-in so they cross well in front of the listening position.
I had previously resisted placement close to front wall due to issues with TV stand placement as well as subwoofers. I had concerns these things would obstruct Lore drivers, requiring me to move around a good amount of other stuff in the room in order to try this Lore placement. Today I finally had the time and room availability to work on this. I was able to get cables and other stuff out of the way to push the other "furniture" back about five inches toward the front wall. This allowed me enough flexibility to move the Lore's as close as 6" from the front wall.
Well, my goodness. Turned off that subwoofer, and lo and behold, there's plenty of "Shelter" song on his first album, the bass is peaky in one of the bass notes. I can confirm that that's the actual signal and not a room mode of mine. Something about their recording process on that album must have had a resonance at about 40 or 50hz, because bass notes at that frequency really spike in the signal. And this is how it sounds to my ears as well. Reproduce this approach in all the songs I'm listening to, especially while optimizing bass, and I have a pretty good idea what stuff is just part of the signal and what is due to speakers and/or room.
Ok, with that said, low bass comes through adequately on the Lores now that I have them placed closer to front walls, enough that there is no need for subwoofer for most music. I will need to go back and redo my EQ on the subwoofer so it's crossed over around 35-40hz or so and only supports sub-35hz. There's no need for it above that range.
I ended up with the rear of the Lores 15" from my front wall, and same distance from sidewalls as before (18" or so), with mild toe-in. I didn't like the aggressive toe
-in. It collapsed the soundstage too much and also cause some smearing in imaging and instrument separation.
This is only about 5" closer to the front wall than previously - very surprising to me that these few inches would make such a huge difference in bass response.
Anyway, sorry guys for not fully exploring placement before coming to my previous bass response conclusions. Cwazz, if you haven't yet played around aggressively with speaker placement, I would really recommend it. |
Ok, my damned EEE netbook likes to randomly delete stuff sometimes. A good chunk of the third paragraph in my last post is missing. The missing chunk describes how my Behringer EQ has a real-time spectrum analyzer, and signal is fed in parallel with the speakers - direct from the amp. Basically, the point is that I have a graphical display showing me the signal the speakers are seeing. This means I can compare what I'm hearing with what the signal looks like. I can tell if a peaky note is actually that loud, or if the signal has it the same as other notes in the song. This allows me to know whether the sounds I'm hearing are from speakers/room or if they're from the signal itself. It's a very handy thing, removing one of the most important variables, whether the system sounds like what the signal says or not.
Of course, it's fairly crude in that it depends on my perception of audible loudness of different sounds compared to what I'm seeing on the display. Still, it gets me much closer to the truth than without it.
I then introduced an example. Ray Lamontagne's "Shelter" song off of his first album. From that reference onward, the rest of my post is what I intended. |
Hey that's good news Genjamon.
I tried the "cross in front of you" toe in and didn't like it much either. But I'm not surprised about the difference in bass by moving only a few inches. Bass can be very finicky indeed. In my room I have the opposite problem in that bass can be boomy/heavy if it's not set up right. I have the advantage of a dedicated room so I can pretty much move around as I like. |
I do understand the boomy/heavy issue as well. As I said, I ended up with the Lores about 15 inches from front wall. I started the experimentation at 6 inches. I moved them out a couple inches at a time, and in each case the bass became more balanced, defined, and less boomy. I was quite surprised that bass weight didn't change all that much between 6 inches and 15 inches. That's about 10 inches! The new position is only 5 inches from before experimentation, and there are light years of difference in bass response! Very strange... At least now I have found the right balance of definition and weight for my room, making the subwoofer optional at this point for when I want to be a bass freak. |
Genjamon - with the Lores that close to the back wall, are you compromising 3D image and depth with that placement? Just curious...
when I had my Lores, the back of the speaker was at least 3 full FT off the back wall. Usually with front ported designs, the bass doesn't change as much when moving closer to a back wall... this is interesting findings but obviously every one has its own character.
Sebrof is in a smaller room so that explains why the Lores can overload the room easier. |
Glad to hear you took the effort to get the room involved.
It makes a huge difference. |
My room is 16X25 ft with 8ft ceilings. It's a early 50's ranch-style house, with suspended floor over crawl space. The room with the system is rectangular, with the house's front door on left wall at rear, 5 foot opening to dining room on right wall at rear, 3 ft opening to hallway on rear wall to the right. All these positions relative to listening position 1/3 of the way into the room from the rear wall. Speakers and system are along front wall, with rear of Lores now 15 inches from front wall, 17 inches from side wall. I have GIK tri-traps from floor to ceiling in front corners, GIK absorption at first reflection points, GIK diffusion panels on rear wall directly behind listening position and on front wall between Lores and the flat panel TV in the middle.
Yes, it's possible I've lost some soundfield depth not having them farther out in the room. Unfortunately, I'm not willing to have them 3+ feet into the room due to competing space needs for other room purposes, and I've never tried them that far out. Maybe the next time I have an afternoon free for plenty of experimentation I'll try that option and see what I think. For now, I'm quite happy I've found an option that doesn't require a subwoofer. There are some benefits to lower Lore bass output and using a subwoofer, in that I could use the multi-parametric EQ capabilities of my Behringer to deal with room modes very effectively. However, there are coherency negatives that Paul has mentioned, and I right now I'm enjoying them thoroughly without those coherency issues. |
Just an FYI - My Pendragons are being painted Monday, so stay tuned I will have them the following week! |
Can't wait for your impressions, Gpowered! |
Has anyone tried using the Tekton Lore for a theater system setup as a main? Does it has good dynamic and SPL for modest listening level but not reference level? I will be using it 60% music and 40% movies. |
I'm thinking about getting the Lore speakers for a home theater system, 60% for music and 40% for movies in my living room. Is Lore speakers suitable for using as a main speaker for watching movies in modest listening level? |
I use mine in a mixed music and TV situation. All 2-channel for both. It's been absolutely fine for me for both purposes, but I'm not as picky with movies. I have to say the most fun I've had thus far with my Lores has been with a Ween concert DVD. |
I wonder what happen? Posted two times. I only press the submit button once.
Genjamon: Thanks... Just finishing reading various reviews. I think it might work out and just a sub.
For those who have listen to Geddes Abbey or other waveguided speakers, how does it compare to the Lore? From what I has being reading, waveguided speakers offer good sound quality for music and excellent SPL and dyanmics for movies. But music is more important so, I'm thinking about the Lore too.
Also, what other bookshelf or monitor speakers that has a similar sound quality to Lore? Need one for bedroom that can only use bookshelf speakers. |
UPDATE: I am happy to report that my highly anticipated Pendragons are shipping. Email me if you want to see a picture. Eric made some slight aterations/refinements to the production version. They are front ported. They look incredible!!! |
Anxious to hear your review Gpowered. I'm buying some Lore's to match with my NOS Valves VRD 45st Amp, and Juicy Music Blueberry Extreme pre. Just waiting the funds from my Lascala sale. |
Waiting as well. I bought the 4.5's, they are breaking in as I write this note; my wife loves them so far she would like just a tad more bass, but hey, it is a 4.5 speaker can't expect much more...oh, its paired with a new Jolida FX10, 10 watts, no problem, sounding rich, deep soundstage, witdth getting better by the day. Nice pairing. She likes these so much, she said, "get the Lore if you'd like." |
Wednesday is the day!! Granted they will be break in mode for a while :0) Stay tuned!! |
I received my Lores last Wednesday. The packaging, fit, finish... everything...was top notch, and the fact that Eric takes the time to give you updates on where your speakers are in the build and paint phases, and give you specific unpacking instructions is really darn nice; the man and the company are about as customer-oriented as I could expect.
Straight out of the box, my very first test track was a real driver abuser: The Detroit Escalator Co.'s "Manual Transmission" off their Black Buildings album. I figure this may be the best break-in track out there: With a range of [probably] 20-20, and a veritable fireworks show of drum sounds (along with many other tones), it really puts the full range through the gamut. Heck, I blew a picture off the wall with it (seriously).
Once I got them in the position I felt was the best, I proceeded to throw some live albums at them, just to see how imaging would come out. Jethro Tull's Aqualung Live (a show I saw in Jones Hall in Houston) sounded spacious and detailed. And that 30kHz top end really brings out the "air."
As an aside, the best imaging speaker I can think of, or at least the most holographic one I've ever heard, was the Totem Arro. I doubt the Lores will achieve that downright surreal imaging - which, quite frankly, I value highly - but the Arros will never ever be able to touch the Lores in sheer dynamics (and how would they with a 4.5" driver). I suppose there's always going to be trade-offs, but in this case I would rather have the flatter frequency response, air-throwing 10" FR and huge, detailed sound coming from the Lores.
Back to the musis: Another fun one was Kraftwerk's "Minimum-Maximum," the band's first official live album. When "Autobahn" comes on - for example - you feel like you really are amdist the crowd. "How fun is this?!" I thought. The track "Vitamin" begins, then the bass notes hit and the crowd goes nuts... I was again all smiles. Too cool. The sound coming from the Lores is just so, well, big; the sound is immersive.
With acoustic guitar, I was really amazed. I loved AG with the Moth Audio Cicada's I used to own, thinking that they rendered the truest acoustic guitar sound I had heard to date, however... There's an album by Pierre Bensusan, for example, called "Musiques." The recording level seems rather low and always sounded kind of puny, at least compared to his other albums, but with the Lores I sat on the couch and listened to the thing from start to finish. I'm not going to sat it suddenly sounded immense or anything (the recording is just not going to go there), but it was certainly not the same as the other 100 times I had listened to it. It was just one of those situations where I went, "So, this is how it sounds."
Solo piano through the Lores, as well, is equally wonderful: Glenn Gould is in the room. Adding that tweeter inline with the FR adds that last bit of information that unveils what may have been somewhat hidden before. And you pianists will know what I mean: It's the difference between playing with the lid closed and the mute depressed and playing it with the lid wide open and your foot off the mute. That may sound a bit dramatic, but that's how the sound changed for me. The large FR driver moving the air and the 30kHz tweeter make for a "complete picture." And obviously Eric's enclosure is porting everything to relative perfection.
I could go on and on about other music types I've listened to through them over the past five days, but I won't put you through that. I'm sure you can glean from my comments that I'm quite impressed.
I know I've not gone into any great detail with the above comments, but I will say that this is the most enjoyable speaker I've ever owned, and have been listening steadily since I received them. And to be able to say that with them coming right out of the box is pretty darn amazing. As a reference, the following is what I've used over the years (not the most stellar lineup, but then again I've never had much of a budget to work with):
- Bose 301
- Klipsch SB1
- Klipsch KSB 2.1
- Omega Loudspeakers TS3
- Epos ELS-3
- Totem Arro
- Moth Audio Cicada
- Morrow Audio monitors (10" Audio Nirvana FR driver)
- Magnepan Magnaplanar MMG
- Swan Diva 2.1se
My amp is an Audio Innovations Series 500 integrated, using Genalex Gold Lion KT77's, 6922's and 12AX7's. The source is a v3 Squeezebox going to a Musical Fidelity V-DAC over a DH Labs Silver Sonic D-75 coax; the interconnects are DH Labs Silver Sonic BL-1 Series 2; the speaker cabling is Audio Quest Type 2.
Cheers,
Mark |
Great review Mark! I'm very excited to get mine. |
Great review Ballywho!!! The Lore is surely a pleasant surprise! Please check out my P-dragon write up in the review forum |
What did you do with your Lores Gpowered? |
the proper question, utahusker would be,,, what did you do with the "best speaker ever , end all , im off the merry-go-round ,no need to go any farther in the quest for the perfect speaker , i found the perfect speaker and , can you beleive?? for under 1 grand , that sounds better then 5 -10 times it cost speaker "??!! (wushhhh) Great question utah , what did he do with them ??? and,,, how much did he get for them .I would luv to know why he got rid of them . Gpowered ....pleeeese enlighten us. |
CWazz sure has a way w/ words. Charlie - glad you chimed in because I wanted to let you know I tried an Adcom amp with the Pendragons, and I could not believe how much better of a match my 12 watt Xindak EL84 amp is! In fact, the 12 watt tube amp is giving me much better bass than the 150 watt Adcom and no doubt a much sweeter sound in the mid range and top end. I am now fully inclined to tell you that your Counterpoint amp is likely the issue!
These speakers will play nice and loud with transistor but really come into their own w/ tubes!
See the reviews section of this site and you will know what happen to my Lores - I jumped on the P-dragons while Eric had the intro price on. I am thrilled I did. |
Cwazz - boy your post is just a but sarcastic, is it not? Where is the resentment coming from? You sound like I moved from a Tekton to a different type of speaker... I simply moved up the line... similar sonics just more of everything.
Also, here's another tip for you: the upgrade was funded by a 95% return on my Lores, and a 50% downgrade on my amp... and it worked out just as planned - a very nice improvement indeed.
Take notes my friend... it's not about what you have or can afford, it's about what you can do w/ what you have to get what you are looking for... ; )
I am a motivated person in everything I do, and where this is a will, there is always a way. Time for you to stop the "woe is me I listened to someone's advice and bought the wrong speaker", and take our suggestions about changing your front end. Your posts do not bear fruit and you seem to ignore any help and instead post sarcasm. Please do not hold me to such high standards. |
Good Grief Cwazz. Give is a rest. It's simply getting annoying. |
Adcom???please . IAny ways Ii stand by what I say , priny\t in here . Cpapace just read all the post and you should get the idea where I am coming from .Gpower , good luck in your qeust , whatever that maybe . |
Yeah, I've been trying to give Cwazz every benefit of the doubt, but at this point I'm just not sure he's really interested in seeking the solution to his issues.
Despite this, let me share an experience I had toying around the other week. I had found that speaker placement mattered essentially in getting enough bass response for me with the Lores. I have an Ampino, which has volume control, but was also using a preamp/buffer. I thought I would experiment with just using the amp and eliminate the preamp.
I found that details were somewhat enhanced, and greater air, but to the detriment of full-bodied instrument sounds, and most importantly, BASS!! Putting the preamp back in there brought back the bass extension, musical drive, while only modestly reducing detail and air by the slightest bit. In fact, I am not so sure it was not simply the psycho-acoustic effects of more bass energy that I was hearing and not actual reduction in detail.
Cwazz, and everyone else, having the right mating of electronics and speakers is ESSENTIAL when you have high expectations and you're playing with this level of speaker quality. |
I think the Lore's will be a great fit for my system. I'm currently using highly modified Lascala's with an NOS Valves 45ST amp using KT88s and a Juicy Music Blueberry Extreme preamp.
This system should be a match made in heaven for the Lore's. I just hope it isn't a step down since I've put a lot of work to get it where it's at now.
My reason for switching is to get a little more forgiving speaker for lower quality recordings. The Lascala's are very revealing with said recordings, but they sound heavenly with quality recordings.
I just want to utilize a greater portion of my collection. |
"My reason for switching is to get a little more forgiving speaker for lower quality recordings"
The lores will be perfect at this. That's an area that is critical for me, because my inventory of "audiophile" recordings is practically nothing. For me, it's all about the emotional experience and the ability to give God the glory. A highly analytical system is not my cup of tea, but with that said, the paradoxical truth about the Lores is their ability to be forgiving but also sound like live music on live recordings. No other speaker I have listened to does this. The P-dragon does it as well. Maybe it's an Eminence thing... |
Utah - Just FYI, I had Klipschorns when I took a chance on Eric's Katz Meow V1 speakers. I have never looked back, I have never missed the KHorns, and I like the Lores even better than the Katz. I didn't realize how much "unforgiving-ness" I was putting up with listening to KHorns ;)
Not sure how the mods to your LSs apply here, but I'd be willing to bet you would not be disappointed with the Lores. |
Re: eminence thing. The Katz 1 has a Fostex driver, so perhaps Eric has something up his sleeve to pull this off. Interesting... |
I want to thank everyone who has participated in this chat since it turned me on to a high efficiency speaker with a benign impedance that sounds really good. I'm not, and have never been in to horn speakers; my wife and I come down on the slighty warm/neutral side of this audio world.
As I listen to the small Tekton 4.5s, which prompted me to purchase the Jolida FX 10 for a desktop system in a small room (office), my ears are blown away by this small combo...and it hasn't broken I yet. Today I hooked up my Cary 280 V12 with 50 watts of single ended triode and Wow! Wow! The little Tektons really came alive. Huge soundstage, I mean extremely wide and deep. Very present and live, voices, male and female large and live, timbre just beautiful, real piano, even the bass got deeper and a tuneful type, not one note. I'm really hazard now, wife too.
Can't wait to order the Lore...thanks all!, |
Has anyone recently contacted Eric to bring the price of the Lore down to what it was before ($850)? |
I don't think he will bring it down to the introductory price again.
He sells returns for that price now.
The Lore is too popular. |
Sebrof, I see you like your Lores over your Katz Meow. Is your Katz the same as the $1500 dollar pair that's on the Tekton website now. Also, if you paired the Katz w/ a sub would the Lores still be better? What are the differences in sound quality between the Lores and Katz? (I've already read your impressions of Omens vs. Lores) |
Drcruz - The Katz I have are the first version, you can see a picture on my system page. Much different from the ones on the Tekton website.
The Katz are more smooth and do a better job of disappearing, the Lores have more bass. I would guess that many people would prefer the Katz to the Lores. My 2 buddies preffered the Katz to the Omens, for me it was a "depends on my mood and music" thing. We all preferred the Lores over the Katz but not by a whole lot.
I personally wouldn't pair either speaker with a sub, my feeling is that that would defeat the concept of my system - Simplicity. SET + no crossover. Might as well get some crazy multi-way and some big SS amps ;)
Hope this helps, PM me if you have specific questions. |
Very helpful...Thanks Sebrof |
I have lore speakers and I'm using new integrated from Eastern Electric M88 with them.
Great combination. |
I saw a few of you (like zmanastronomy ) were selling your lores? Why |
I see 3 ads right now on AGon for Lores, 2 already sold.
1 guy is upgrading to Tekton Pendragons
1 guy is moving and plans to buy new Lores in white when he gets there (I saw his ad on another forum)
Zman doesn't say why
I'm real happy with mine, but I'd sell them if I thought I could get something better. For the price I think I'll have mine for a long time...but I've said that before. Many times ;) |
maybe , because they are not living up to all the hype you read on here . |
I decided to pick up a really good sub to augment the lower end of the Lore. The Lore has great bass, but lets face it, from 40hz down they roll off pretty quik.
The sub I got has a room correction EQ to correct for room accoustics and give a flat FR to 26hz.
Well, I figured that if I had to help the Lore in the bottom end, I could pick up a killer monitor that would perform with the Lore sonicaly.
One thing I haven't been able to get passed is the looks of the Lore. In satin black it is butt ugly.
With the kind of money I have in my system I want a nice piece of furniture to look at.
That's it! Just going in a different direction with my system. The lore sounds great, but if I have to augment them in the lower end, I might as well get a great monitor that will completely disappear. |
There goes Mr. one thought again! |
zman ,, what speaker are you going with? |
Zman, wish I wasn't sleeping at the wheel when your Lore came up for sale. Since we're talking Tekton, can someone here help me out. I'm playing the 4.5 in desktop system with a Jolida FX10. I don't like the Electro Harmonix EL84s or their 12AX7s much. So, does anyone have recommendations? I called The Tube Store and was going to purchase the Genelex 84s and 12AX7s, but got talked into a 7189 Northern Electric Tube and wondering if I made a mistake? Well, I'll start finding out in a couple of days. Again anybody have experience with this tube or have other suggestions? I like slightly warm sound that is full. My Cary 280 has it, what can I do to help the little FX10? |
