Staehli,
What's the source you are using with the Benchmark and the Octave?
Also, what's downstream from the DAC in your system?
Thank you! |
Lewinski,
source is a Lite CD 21 transport with 44 and 96kHz outputs then there's a Merlin TSM mme with EAR 868 and First Watt F5 amplification. Cables are a combination of Stereovox, Morrow and Artisan Silver, Supra Sword for sc and Van den Hull powercords. No powerconditionning. |
Staehli,
I am not familiar with the CD 21 transport, but from reading online it can upsample CDs. Were your comments/comparison between Octave and Benchmark based on 44.1 or 96 kHz output from the CD 21? I'm asking this because at another forum someone who's trying the Octave mentioned its performance was superb when fed an upsampled signal (in his case upsampled inside a computer, then reclocked thru Offramp 4), but mediocre when fed 44.1. |
Lewinski,
with the benchmark, I liked the 44.1 output better because it sounded more dynamic and self assured whereas the Octave had better air and separation fed from the 96kHz output. Strange. |
Hello Charles1dad.
I was wondering if your Octave finally cleared customs and you were able to receive it. Looking forward to your comments!
Cheers! |
Lewinskih01,
The post office mistakenly has returned my Metrum shipment back to Holland! So unfortunately I`ll have to wait a little longer.
Thank goodness I still have my Yamamoto to enjoy.
Best Regards, |
I use the Metrum Octave with an Audiophilleo2, and Amarra 2.3.
Inititially, it was a bit bright, but not sibilant. I like the sound a lot. It is very clear, rich and detailed, with slam. Bass is excellent. Most importantly, the sound doe not fatigue. This was still an issue with the Weiss Dac2 for me. It sounds much different compared to an traditional NOS dac such as the Ack Dac or the Promitheus Dac. They sound constricted in comparision, creating a sense of coziness at the expense of resolution and transparency. I would not describe the sound as lush or rich, rather as neutral and very fast. |
Charles1dad: so sorry to hear that. That's frustrating! Will continue to look forward to your comments.
B_mueller: thanks for chiming in. Are you running preamp-less and with Amarra? Looking at your past threads I see you have had your fair share of experience with good DACs. Have you ever heard a Bryston BDA-1? It is good to see you describe the sound as detailed when you are coming from the Weiss. When people describe as non-fatiguing I can't help wonder if this is at the expense of detail resolution. I see it's not the case here - great news!
BTW, does your Octave have the 7 or 14VA power supply? |
Thanks for sharing your early impressions. So far most new owners of the Metrum Octave seem to confirm Srajan Ebaen`s conclusion, exceptional transparency,detail and resolution coupled with fully fleshed out tone density,body and ease, That`s a tough act to pull off usally. |
I run without preamp, directly into Nuforce 9SE V3. The Metrum is with a 14VA powersupply. Non-fatiguing is definitively not at the expense of detail. Initially, there was almost too much detail, detracting somewhat from what Sarjan might call "Gestalt" - but with time, the brightness settles, and the tome becomes more balanced, maybe even "lush". I have listened but not critically compared the RWA Isabella (this includes preamp), Nuforce HDP, Ack Dac, Promitheus Dac and Weiss Dac2. Those are all good products. The Metrum however is in a different league. I have not listened to other acclaimed products, such as PDX, Lampizator, Bryston etc. I have to admit, I am not pursuing the "holy grail", but want have a system where I can completely relax and forget about equipment (which is hard enough to get...). A long time ago, I used an Alphason Sonata with a Garrott P87 cartridge, Spectral DMC12 and DMA50 into Quad ESL63. I was happy then, and I am now. I hope it will last. |
what a nice "metrum" thread
have ordered one as well but helas, only last week ..
Charles1dad what a bummer. what a stupid mistake of the post
My condolences..
Happy indeed you did not sell yr Yamamoto... |
Kyrill1,
Thanks, I`d never sell the Yamamoto before auditioning the Metrum. That`s why I`m in a no lose situation. The Yammy is very fine(my baseline). If the Metrum is even better, then what a treat I`m in for. |
Unless I missed an earlier post on this...
If 20 pins, maybe AD5791:
http://www.analog.com/en/digital-to-analog-converters/da-converters/ad5791/products/product.html |
Nemmind..I found a pic, and the Metrum chips are 16 pin. |
Hi all
A vew weeks ago I wrote about my first impressions of the Metrum DAC and mentioned - besides some positive aspects - the loose bass and the ill defined treble. I was sure, these shortcomings would vanish during the break in period but the contrary happened, especially in the hights. S and z sounds are almost unbearable now. They're completely bleached and my initial remark that they sound a bit like pink noise is even more pronounced now. I tried different cables but the outcome stayed the same so I borrowed the DAC to a friend with a Lawry DAC, ATC pre and active ATC 50s. He could have tried it for a week but gave it back after two days with the same results. Now I'm back to my old DAC. For future purchases I'll insist on a home audition. |
Strange. I cannot hear this shortcomings with my metrum. |
Hi,
Staehli, sorry to hear about your problems with the Metrum. Ironically the upper frequency performance of the DAC is cited as one of it`s strenths in reviews and feedback from nearly all early owners.No etch,edge or brightness(yet very high resolution) per impressions.
Another example of how no component pleases everyone`s ears or works well in all systems. I hope to finally have my re-shipped Metrum Octave very soon and compare for myself.
Staehli I agree that home auditions(with return policy ) is the ideal situation. |
Has anyone heard or considered the Acoustic Plan DAC? It is a NOS architecture with separate power supply and discrete tube output stage.
I heard the Acoustic Plan DAC recently and was impressed.
Staehli, you might find this more to your tastes but it costs a bit more than the MA DAC. I sure hope your DAC settles down a bit. Your description is frightening! |
Charles,
it is indeed ironic especially since I'm comparing it to a DAC that is said to be on the cold/bright side of neutral... Until now I thought that a DAC is an unlikely source for a system mismatch. |
Well, per UPS my Metrum Octave should arrive today. If so I`ll post out of the box impressions and then followup after appropriate burn-in. |
Charles1dad,
I have listened to 4 DACs in the last month or so. My favorite one, by far, is an older one a friend gave to me. He helped design it for a company and was given some of them which he modified to his own tastes (got rid of all electrolitics, used some "special" caps, beefed up power supply, etc). It doesn't have all the fancy # of the newer ones, it just sounds better. What is surprising it the low level detail. It's not just that it's better, I hear things that don't even exist in the others.
When I was researching, I read that Gordon Rankin (Wavelength) thinks that the manipulation of the stream up then down loses some low level detail. All I know is what I hear and that is: this older "simpler" DAC, with it's mods, sounds better than the newer ones I tried. I'm happy now and have no interest in trying way more expensive ones.
I will be interested in what you find with the Metrum. I like your system. It should reveal a lot. |
Hi Onemug,
Your DAC sounds like quite a find. Is it NOS, multibit,R/2R or Delta Sigma based?
I love simple circuits coupled with strong power supplies.
UPS tracking now says my DAC will come tomorrow( good thing I`m a patient man). |
Charles1dad,
My DAC is NOS. Not sure what it's based on. Power supply is strong and analog as opposed to a switching type.
You are a patient man. Love to read about your impressions of it, even out of the box. Hope it's a winner. |
Well at last my Metrum Octave came today(praise the lord!)
Within 20 minutes I had it setup and playing.
To get right to the point, this thing is special,very special. Cees warns of initial brightness and says in several weeks the Octave settles in. This must be system dependent, the sound is quite extended but the high frequencies are refined and a bit sweet, but I don`t appreciate brightness,edge or harshness at all.
This DAC caught me off guard(despite the review and comparisons on 6 moons and the various forums)it is utterly transparent,crystal clear with very high resolution. But here`s the strange part, it as organic and fluid(already) as my Yamamoto YDA DAC with the same smooth-relaxed presentation but it`s clearly more dynamic and bigger sounding, larger scale and noticably faster. This was an unexpected finding at this very early stage.
The Yamamoto is a top performing DAC that has bettered many other digital sources with it`s natural character and tone. I`ve absolutely have enjoyed this DAC and felt it was worth every penny, 2,500 USD in Feb-2010.I must be honest, the Octave is just simply superior(believe me that`s saying something!).I listened to Sarah Vaughn, John Coltrane-Johnny Hartman and then Miles Davis. These were examples of very often played CDs I know so well and have heard in many different systems.
The strong sense of living breathing palpable performers in your space "exceeds" the Yamamoto(which did this so convincingly).
The Octave must have a lower noise floor and or higher S/N ratio, venue nuance,ambience and micro details are rendered on a higher level.
I`m not trying to beatup the Yamamoto(it`s provided me with much musical enjoyment) but in just 3 hours of listening,all of these observations were so apparent.
Summary, Exceptional refined tone and timbre(rich but not fat or bloated)
Beautiful overtones and harmonic preservation(cymbals sound so real and natural, wow!)
Superb transparent and clear sound, no veils at all.
Very high detail level and resolution, yet very organic at the same time. Really similar to the Coincident preamp and SET amplifier.
Maybe after such a long wait I just got lucky, it fits so well with my current components.
All listening was with plain old 16/44.1 Redbook and it`s the best CD sound I`ve ever heard in my system(without question). I`m going to the RMAF in a few days and will run the Octave 24/7 while I`m away.
Best Regards, |
Forgot to mention that the Octave has a seperate 14VA power supply and is non oversampling and based on the R/2R architecture. Due to it being NOS I expected it to be natural and somewhat smooth. What surprised me are the dynamics,detail-articulation and ultra resolution.
If this is how NOS sounds with proper design and execution then I`m completely sold on it, there`s no mush or muck at all. |
Thanks for the update Charles. This is one I would really like to hear in the 1k DAC sweepstakes, it sounds very promising. |
Thanks a ton Charles. Another interesting review this is. How is the bass. Is it a bit one note as someone else pointed ?
I will wait for your unit to burn in and then hear your final comments before placing the order. |
Hi Charles,
I've been following this thread, since I have an Octave on order as well.
Are you using any sort of software upsampling, say with Pure Music or similar program? I'd be interested to hear what you think with and without upsampling. Everyone I've read seems to prefer it with software upsampling done by the computer, but that doesn't mean you will.
- David |
David, I am using Wave Editor and routinely upsample 16/44.1 files, first 16->24 bit, then 44.1->88.2 kHz (relative order matters here). I prefer the sound of these upsampled 24/88.1 kHz files, it appears smoother, more liquid, but the difference is not dramatic. I am using Amarra 2.32, Audiophilleo2 and Metrum Octave. |
Hi,
Pani the bass is very much like the Yamamoto`s (meaning very good) it at this early stage is controlled and natural. I would say it has good articulation and notes are distinct. I`ve not noticed bloated or "one note" bass issues thus far. There`s no overdamped-too tight hifi charactrer present, again quite natural in my system anyway.
David,
I don`t use any upsampling, just native 16/44.1 with my PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport, it sounds just fine. Perhaps upsampling could be even better, I don`t know(Srajan Ebaen felt either method was very good).
All I can say is that I`m highly impressed with the Octave`s insertion in my system,exceptionally natural and involving. YMMV. |
Update impressions of the Octave:
This is an exceptionally detail retrieving DAC for sure.
It presents very subtle nuances and inner/ micro information well,finger pressure on piano keys, minute voice inflections, fine differences of overtones and harmonics are quite special. Micro dynamics are handled as completely as the macrodynamics.
The important distinction is that these low level details are natural and realistic, there`s nothing of a clinical/analytical quality what so ever. You are made aware of the venue size and scale(lots of ambience) and each recording is unique and individual in this regard.
Tonanlity is in my opinion top tier, the full body and richness(not overly rich however) of instruments are preserved and have`nt been stripped of vitality, color and energy. this superior trait is so vital to me as the vast majority of my music is unamplified acoustic jazz. With the larger jazz bands the many varied sounds and tones of all instruments are simply realistic and organic with really fine seperation(no matter the # of instruments and volume level, impressive!).
I think this DAC will appeal to people who placed a major priority on natural flowing music , pure tone and harmonics along with realistic dynamic ebb and flow.
I don`t focus intently on imaging and soundstage, but I will tell you the stage is very large with very good depth. Images are IMO dense and very 3-D( living breathing flesh and blood presence).The Octave is well extended at both ends, I find the higher frequencies refined and elegant, at least in my system there`s no edge or sharpness.
Overall I`d sum it up as in the organic-emotional camp but includes high detail and resolution capabilities(superb transparency) This is a very involving DAC. |
Excellent review. You have the system to show what this DAC can do. Glad it was a home run for you. |
Onemug, thanks for the kind remarks. You can research and read reviews but nothing beats an in house audition. Sometimes anticipation can lead to disappointment and I`ll admit my expectations were pretty high. It is gratifying when they are met or as in this case exceeded. This DAC is really fine. The 6 Moons review is remarkably accurate. I do think there`s much synergy with my system and others may /could have a different experience or out-come |
My eagerly awaited Octave came this week and out of the box, I thought it sounded a little subdued, a bit bright. My system consists of a 4 way active horn setup with all tube amps( 3 SETs, 1PP) and I listen to Diyhifi Satch Dac with tube output stage in NOS mode for RBCD. Left it playing in my music room for a while and came back later ( 1 hour) to no music in the room. Found a dead Octave. No blown fuse in power supply or burnt parts that I can see. Back it goes to the maker and more waiting. Pretty annoyed :( |
Jaspert,
Sorry to hear of your troubles. Hope you get it sorted.
I took the plunge and just ordered one.
Charles1dad, thanks for your thoughts, you've convinced me. |
I have to say Metrum was quick to respond to my query. Cees said he would give it priority to get it sorted and send it back to me ASAP. |
Soundqcar,
You`re welcome. No component will satisfy everyone, I hope the Octave works out for you as it has for me.
Best Regards, |
This thread is amazing !!! |
I must confess that I canceled my order for the Metrum. I hadn't paid, nor had Cees mailed out my invoice yet. So no harm done. He was very nice about it.
A friend of mine whose ears I trust, and whose system I have spent many an hour listening to, told me he had the Metrum in his rig for about a month....thought it was definitely an overachiever, but prone in his system to displaying just a hint of hardness in the upper mid/lower treble.
This quality is my "white whale" so to speak, and the one thing that would make or break it for me, so without some type of return policy, I had to reluctantly pass on it.
I just couldn't take the plunge.
YMMV |
I ordered the metrum octave in September to be used with a stello u3 after reading all the rave reviews.
Of course I just read the six moons review of the new Eximus dp1 Dac and wonder did I make a mistake. Big price difference of course.
Any insights? |
Further thoughts on two excellent DACs,
I have over 200 hours on my Octave and stand by my earlier comments with 2 addedums, after re-inserting the Yamamoto DAC into my system the Octave is a very good DAC but it is`nt superior to the Yammy. WITH continued listening and patience subtle differences arise, both DACs are good but one does`nt stomp the other. I feel the Octave has "slightly better",micro detail and venue nuance/ambience but in my system the Yammy is just a "bit" more dynamic with more impact(not that the Octave lacks these qualities).
In terms of tone, timbre and overtones again they`re close but the Yammy is superb with overtone production with just a bit more air. I`d expect the NOS R/2R Octave to be very organic and natural(which it is)but how does Mr. Yamamoto get equal organic character from this oversampling DAC ? The Octave may be more resolved by a tiny margin yet both sound so transparent and veiless.Bass is exceptional with both DACs ,not overdampened nor fat and slow, just natural with control, good tone and weight.
I `ve not notice the high frequency issues at all with the Octave, both DACs are extended and are a bit sweet. Neither has edge,glare or harness.
Both of these are quite fine but with differences that may cause one to be preferred over the other based on taste and system makeup(nothing new there).
The Octave does have a clear value advantage(1K USD vs 2.5k or higher for the Yamamoto, big difference).
At it`s price point the Octave will be very difficult to beat.
In my case that`s a moot point, the Yamamoto is a purist Redbook only player but a damm fine one. In head to head comparisons each will have it`s supporters.
I retain my high opinion of the Octave and I feel the reviews and internet buzz is justified.
The Yamamoto-YDA-01 DAC is a classic, I`m keeping it. As involving as the Octave is, I find the Yammy even more so.Emotional respond to music is hard to explain, but you know it when you feel it. It`s the same reaction as when I replaced an excellent 100 watt push-pull amp with my 8 watt SET 300b amplifier(sublime). |
Quietman,
I have no insight regarding the Eximus, but if you haven't yet, you might want to look over at computeraudiophile.com the "Metrum Octave - WOW" thread, where member Bhobba compares the U3, an Audiophileo, and an Offramp feeding the Octave. The short story is he feels the Audiophileo is far superior to the U3, and then the Offramp is superior to the former although quite more expensive too. And he's adamant about feeding the Octave hi resolution files.
Charles1dad: thank you for the great input. Seems like this is it for me. I now need to pull the trigger, which might take a while. |
I`d expect the NOS R/2R Octave to be very organic and natural(which it is)but how does Mr. Yamamoto get equal organic character from this oversampling DAC? Having both non-oversampling and oversampling digital sources which I enjoy, the answer in my opinion is because in the scheme of things, it's the overall design and not just the chip that determines the sound. |
Further thoughts on two excellent DACs Thank you for the update, Charles! Best wishes, Alex Peychev |
Clio09,
No disagreement with your observation, I was reflecting on the general/stereotype asumptions that exist. Certainly MR. Yamamoto`s experience and talent with building SET amps and analogue components have much to do with the suceedful DAC design.Personally I believe power supply and the analogue output stage considerations have more to do with the sound than the chip choice. the Yamamoto DAC has 9 seperate regulated power supplies, a very large 150mv transformer and an ultra simple analogue circuit. He knows what he`s doing.
Best Regards, |
|
Yes Charles, I appreciated your observations. I guess my comment stems from the fact that we sometimes (myself being a guilt party, but I'm working on that) get caught up in the individual parts of a component rather than the overall design. I have no doubt based on his DAC, as well as other designs, that Mr. Yamamoto knows what he is doing. |
I am happy I reinstated this thread :-)
Thank you Charles for that well thought out review. Yes, it is difficult to express the rightness of music reproduction sometimes. But you did it my friend. |
Hi Pani,
I`ve gradually learned over the years how to choose(works for me anyway) components for true long term satisfaction,. Buy the one that evokes the stronger emotional response and causes an undeniable connection with your music. If it naturally draws you deep into the music`s performance that`s the one I want. |
Very correct Charles. I recently had a similar experience while listening to a all Naim setup. |
