Mapman I used to own a more recent Mcintosh solid state amp with autoformers (output transformers) and in my opinion, what I found was the midrange and highs improved considerably when compared to direct coupled Mcintosh amp. However the bass seemed to be more loose.
Why do some audiophiles beat up McIntosh?
I've been around audio my entire life. I'm 45 and I bought a decent Technics system when I was 12 with my paper route money. Genesis speakers built in New England which were actually pretty darned good. I would spin vinyl every single day to the point it drive my parents crazy. My buddies father had a McIntosh system that I was in love with and he was allowed to play it. It was haunting for me to hear his fathers system.
Fast forward 28 years later and I'm perplexed at the hatred I see posted online about McIntosh. Is it really that bad or is everyone upset that McIntosh is so successful? It doesn't make sense to me that the resale value is the best in the business yet audiophiles bash them. I personally have always loved their gear and sound. I don't own any, and probably never will. Still, I just don't get it. I've always admired McIntosh. Looks aside, I always enjoyed the music. Can someone tell me that they're junk or do you just not like the presentation?
Fast forward 28 years later and I'm perplexed at the hatred I see posted online about McIntosh. Is it really that bad or is everyone upset that McIntosh is so successful? It doesn't make sense to me that the resale value is the best in the business yet audiophiles bash them. I personally have always loved their gear and sound. I don't own any, and probably never will. Still, I just don't get it. I've always admired McIntosh. Looks aside, I always enjoyed the music. Can someone tell me that they're junk or do you just not like the presentation?
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"02-26-15: Larryi The output transformers are spun on a jig in a matter of seconds (compare with how quality transformers are meticulously hand wound); I also did not see anything that suggests that the windings included the complex interleaving that McIntosh was famous for in the past." Yes I heard this also, if your going to have a transformer hanging off a solid state amp, god knows why, it should at least be interleaved. They stoped doing those a long time ago, as it was so labour intensive. Cheers George |
I'm with Georgelofi, for the life of me I can't imagine why they still put trannies are on their ss amps? When Mac started, they provided a level of quality, durability and consistency that was somewhat unique for the era. They seem to have fallen behind in terms of innovation. Every time I've heard Mac gear I found them to be lacking in dimensionality and transient response. Not my cup of tea. YMMV. |
A big reason why some love to hate Mcintosh is a kind of class envy. Yes, there are those who could afford it but simply prefer another favour, but those for the most part hold no grudge or agenda. I've seen this attitude among those who won't or can't pay more than entry level prices. The hate is silly, but there you are. Who cares, really. |
I also saw the show how it's made. I was really surprised how shoddy the mc 275 was made. I always thought mc was really well made gear. After seeing that show I was not impressed. I generally hate Chinese made gear but I even think the Chinese could do a better job than mc does. I have a feeling that in the future mc will start making their gear in China. If they do it will be no great loss. Anyone that has seen that episode of how it's made knows what I am talking about. |
I'll turn that around and ask you to explain in technical terms, what sound improvement benefit is there to be had by putting and output transformer on a solid state amp? Cheers George Oh no you don't. I never said that there was a "sound improvement" because of the output transformers. I asked YOU what Mac gear you had used in your system that led you to your conclusions. Still waiting for an answer. |
"02-27-15: Roxy54 I asked YOU what Mac gear you had used in your system that led you to your conclusions. Still waiting for an answer." How about back in the 70's a pair old school MC275 monoblocks, when they made reasonably good amps, running stacked els57's. Now you answer, what advantage technically for the sound does putting an output transformer on the rear end of a solid state amp do? I can think of only one thing that it makes a poorly designed, maybe unstable solid state amp, more reliable and stable. Cheers George |
Tbg, yes Mcintosh does make solid state with autoformers. The original solid state Mcintosh amp that I purchased was brand new, it was a direct coupled design. Decided a few days later I wanted the more expensive Mac with autoformers so I was able to trade up and compare the two designs. As mentioned earlier the design with autoformers had a more fuller midrange and the highs were much more refined. But again the bass wasn't as tight and well defined as the direct coupled amp. By the way I tried to contact you on the other thread and on the website that you directed me to but when I clicked on your name it brought up Outlook Express and wanted me to set up that account with ipp numbers that I didn't know off hand so I quit. My email address is phdunn544@gmail.com |
This thread is 2 years old now, time to give it up! You either like Mac, or you don't. To each his own opinion. Time to go bash other brands who aren't as successful as Mac, who don't have near enough re-sale value, and may last as long as this winter in the East!!!!!!Too many jealous folks around here who would like to own Mac but can't afford it, and can't think of anything else to do but bash a VERY prosperous and successful brand. Get a life! |
Hey Sid42: Careful, you've been known to bash the transformer coupled ones as well. These are the only ones I and others believe need to be "bashed". Quote Sid42 "7200 was/is the best amp they've made, and with no autoformers.. In my experience, all the autofromer models had a "flabby, not tight" bass. The 7200's bass is deep and tight." Quote Cheers George |
As not many would understand Pops. Source: My own heavily modded CDP switchable input receiver from PM200 HDCD chip to DF1704 PCM1704K (selected) 24bit R2R ladder Multibit dacs. Very special zero feed back direct coupled active I/V stage, and pure class A zero feedback output buffer. Preamp: Of course one of my passive Lightspeed Attenuator Amplifiers: Two x ME-850 stereo bi-polar solid state amps 40kg each. Real tested measurements were 140w-8ohm 260w-4ohm 490w-2ohm 910w-1ohm The one ME for the ESL panels, is heavily biased into Class A http://www.me-au.com/me850data1.jpg http://www.me-au.com/me850data2.jpg Speakers: Two latest aluminium vapour deposited Martin Logan Monolith esl panels, almost identical to the new Neolith panel. My own 3rd order hi-pass passive xover at 150hz Two ACI SV12 bass units best (bass units ever) in 4cu-ft sealed enclosures discrete active 4th order low-pass xover at 150hz. Cheers George |
And back to you, George: You're right, I don't like the autoformers in their amps, AND I don't care for their cd players either. However, I don't bash the McIntosh brand, which is what I thought this thread was all about. I love the sound, resale is fantastic, and I do own one of their pre's and amps. And although they have had several owners since Frank and Gordon passed, they are still one of the longest lasting USA companies to still be in business since 1949! |
I saw a pair of Mc60s in a Pennysaver ad in 1980 and drove through the snow in Upstate New York to buy them from a guy in a trailer park. They have been bullet proof and have never failed to please. The McIntosh owner stereotype is a doctor with a lot more money than hi-fi knowledge or time who wants a plug and play system that sounds good. Those doctors tend not to lurk here, obsess over tweaks, or listen critically to hardware. They like their music and maybe the exclusivity of the brand. For me, I like the tube glow, sweetly colored euphonics, and heritage of the brand. It's romance I don't get from my ARC, Levinson, or Krell gear. |
It seems like the haters put to much effort in into hating products for no reason. Audio is totally subjective so it doesn't mater what the haters say or think. It only maters what the owner of the product thinks. It seems that most of haters don't own the products they hate so they are not qualified to pass judgement on anything. |
Because most MAC is sold to rich docs and dentists who use it to play Frank Sinatra which makes us poorer audiopiles both jealous and disgusted. A perfect storm of righteous indignation.I dont know why exactly but these words are right on the spot.... Mc Intosh is certainly a good product, very flashy, and who will buy it in bunch? :) Schubert is a keen observer...And a great composer, too much talented for his own good tough.... |
