With the exception of some of there tube gear, not many really use this stuff(or admit to it anyway), I am mainly referring to there amps. They look pleasant, they look good on paper and have the price of high end gear, but I seldom hear anyone claiming to like or one day dreaming of owning McIntosh. I have never really listened to there stuff, no good word of mouth sort of scares me away from it, the only people who like it are those who sell it, an uncanny coincidence? I don’t know. Sorry it this has been covered many times in the past, I ran a search and could not find anything.
Jc51373, You words from your Krell / McIntosh thread on amps/ preamps: "Not to be a complete ball-buster".............. I understand that the MC-402 was not to your liking and it just didn't work in your system, that's fine and you have your opinion. Krell is king and McIntosh is second rate crap. I get it. What is the point of honestly sharing you opinion in that thread and now entering this thread. Because you hated the McIntosh amp? You said it best, "complete ball-buster".
Jc51373 I wasn't passing judgment and I do know what quotes around a phrase mean, I was giving my opinion. I might be wrong reading your thread wrong so can you clarify because it doesn't look that way to me.
Below is you thread and what you wrote;
"10-16-06: Pawlowski6132 Anyone ever see a reputable speaker manufacturer or other high end manufacturer using McIntosh in their demo rooms at any of the shows??? Me neither.
Why do you think that is??"
Because it is second rate?
Jc51373 you say you were quoting someone else, I can't seem to find this exact quote that you are referring too, who was it?
Just to clarify and make it simple what are your thoughts of McIntosh?
Well, since much of the stuff exhibited at shows is about hype, buzz and "latest and greatest," I suspect these folks would want to partner with similarly-inclined manufacturers. Pizzazz sells a lot of product.
Alternately, I doubt Mac needs this kind of "exposure" given their loyal following and dealer network.
Dev, you need to READ before you pass judgment...I was quoting someone further up in the thread..And mine was a question. You know what quotes around a phrase mean right?
Last year I bought a second hand VPI TNT III turntable with graham 2.2 tonearm( 3000 $ with VPI stand and SDS !). Totaly ignorant about how vinyl sounds compare to CD and SACD, having a system composed of Audio Research LS 25 linestage, VT 100 amp, esoteric DV 50 digital and Martin Logan Ascent i speakers, I decided to buy a MC 275 because it has (beside excellent reputation) gain control and with a Jan Allaerts MC 1 MKII cartridge and graham slee elevator+era gold V direct in the MC 275 the sound is so pure and detailled that I don't listen to digital any more ! The sound through the ARC preamp is much less accurate. So my advice is to avoid any linestage and to connect your phonostage directly to the amp, and the MC 275 does a marvelous job with Graham slee phono pre for a reasonable price ( 3500 $ + 1500 $) Now I have a nice collection of 2000 LP jazz and don't spend any more money in hardware upgrading, the only backside is that I became a Vinyl addict !!! Cheers to you all from Brussels! Jean
"10-16-06: Pawlowski6132 Anyone ever see a reputable speaker manufacturer or other high end manufacturer using McIntosh in their demo rooms at any of the shows??? Me neither.
They do - but won't tell everyone. Perhaps because most audio-enthusiasts are kind of 'nerds' ?
Sorry to say this - I own McINtosh for about 8 yers now - but owning a Mac makes talking about it redundant. It just asks to be listened to and people owning a Mac don't have time talking about it, they use their time listening to music. In fact, a McIntosh amplifier makes frends redundant. Perhaps owning a Mac makes you a nerd ?
Now enough of this. Here is my experience :
I got the MA6400, a 2x100 Watt at 4 Ohm integrated amp, to play with JBL Ti5000 speakers. Yes, it did lack some power, therefor I now upgraded to the MA6900.
Though, the MA6400 still delivers every bit of grat sound to my old Infinity's 6i, a pair of JBL L112's or a pair of old BnW Transmissionlines.
I had a Vincent on the JBL's, great power but less detail of musicality. I compared with serveral amps and NONE of them had the detail and musicality of the Mac.
So, yes, they are real good amplifiers. They sound the best - you can't find anything wrong about the sond - and so it makes them difficult to talk about.
Perhaps that is why audio-enthousiasts don't talk about them but you can be sure... They do own them !
A lot of them like to listen to music playback at full "threshold of feeling" volume. If they listened at normal comfortable household playback or quiet, don't-wake-the-family levels, there would be no audible bass (Fletcher-Munsen curves). With tone and loudness controls, I can enjoy full-bodied sound at any playback level. The McIntosh preamp also removed any trace of high-end harshness that I had until now (after 50 years!) thought was always a part of electronically-reproduced music.
Strange, my wife and many of our friends that come over our house have always complimented the looks of my all McIntosh gear. The looks of the gear are highly personal choice and as always the "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Not that I need the approval of my wife on what my audio gear should look like nor would she ever put her foot down on this subject but it's nice to know she appreciates it. I don't think the amps of yesterday with their huge cooling fins were ever high on the WAF either. Of course the Krell's and ML's have changed their looks lately and will change again I am sure with time, what ever the fashion will call for. Strange how fashion comes and goes yet the "truly classic" and tasteful designs always remain in fashion and stand the test of time no matter what.
Your example of not being impressed by the $200k system because you wanted to be impressed by something you can afford is like saying "I was not impressed by Porsche or Ferrari because they had nothing to show me in my price range". Also, while McIntosh does have ultra expensive amps and speakers in their line up doesn't mean you have to be able to afford them to enjoy what McIntosh has to offer. A 402/C46 combo was highly praised by TAS as being the best the reviewer has had in his system and compared to other amps/preamps many times the price. Should I remind you how well the 501's were reviewed? A comparison of 20-30 year old McIntosh gear to modern gear and using that as the standard by which it is measured is simply unfair. The new McIntosh gear has also evolved and offers many sonic advantages to the 20-30 year old stuff while still being competitively priced with modern gear of other brands. I for one am very happy that I finally built a system that allows me to simply enjoy music without all the "audiophile nervosa" that seems to go hand in hand with this hobby. I am very pleased at the fact that my investment into 501 monoblocks will last me at least 30 years and bring me daily pleasure while still retaining the highest resale value in case I decide to move up or simply upgrade to the latest model of McIntosh amps/preamps.
Our entire family has enjoyed the old man's MC7270 for no less than 20 years now. His Mac preamp/controller hasn't given a lick of trouble. The amp has pushed various speaker loads, it has backed parties and, it has enhanced our movie watching. Each morning when he wakes to fix his coffee, he flips on the Mac. Dad came over to my house the other day and listened to a little EL34 tube amp (brand name unimportant) I've been listening to recently. He was moved by the "presence". His first response, "The McIntosh has nothing on this! Sounds fantastic!" I asked if he was ready to try something new. "Nope. I love the Mac!" To me, his response said it all. His McIntosh stuff gives him all he needs or, all any of us should need from a stereo, enjoyment. As enthusiasts, we enjoy the never ending quest for the "absolute sound." The hunt is where we derive our enjoyment (or madness). I have to respect a product that is capable of giving its owner years of pride and enjoyment without fail. Cheers to McIntosh and to all the other manufacturers that keep the rest of us ENJOYING music. On a side note, I too was disappointed by my local Mac dealer's demo of their 4000 watt $200,000 system. I begged him to impress me with something normal people could afford as opposed to the mega rich and frivolous. ;)
Since this thread isn't dying... It's not just Macs, it's just about all the "top end" that doesn't get talked about. It's a badge of honour to be obscure.
What's to talk about? Once you've arrived, you're there. There's no doubt, no questions. All that remains is gloating. Exclusive prices of this type of gear translates to a certain amount of exclusivity on forums. That's not to say that there aren't excellent bargains but bucks buys confidence. Besides, I doubt anyone wants to hear someone with 901's slam their SLAMMs or cut down thier Krells.
Let's face it, "enthusiast" means that you are first into audio gear and second possibly into music, that is if your audiophile worries actually allow you to enjoy one CD or LP from beginning to end before your mind starts to wonder what it is you need to upgrade next. Yes, many McIntosh owners are very content with their gear and would not even consider anything else. Call them naive, or non-enthusiasts, but don't forget, many of them have played the gear switching game before, myself included and have stopped looking and caring after experiencing McIntosh in their system. I have played the game myself, been there, done that, got a T-shirt. While some are on their 25th amp, preamp or whatever else seems to be in style (look at the D-class amps thread) I'll be still happily listening to my 501's and smiling. To each it's own.
Earlier this year, I attended a weekend AudioFest which was hosted by another audio organization in the Detroit area. There were close to two dozen “listening rooms” where dealers showcased their wares. McIntosh had two of them.
In the online afterglow of the event, someone asked what was their favorite listening experience of the Fest. After a pregnant pause of several hours where there was a reluctance to take the plunge, I posted that McIntosh, which included their 7-foot speaker array panels in the experience got my vote. This opened a floodgate of postings where McIntosh was at, or near the top, in many of them.
It would be divisive to name other competitors here. Suffice to say, that a lot of the high-end audio dealers weren’t represented and that this audio group, though worldwide now, has its roots in the rustbelt Midwest with a “pull-up-the-bootstrap” ethic that sees many recapping old Scott tube receivers and trumpeting thrift store finds of Rectilinear “Lowboys”. Nevertheless, this unscientific poll, may speak to McIntosh’s power to still enthrall even those who could never afford one – to put down that soldering iron for a moment and “have a chew”, as Boa2 put it.
The guy got really pissed, nearly threw me out of the room!
That's pretty funny, Albert.
We went to hear a McIntosh demo at a dealer in CA. When I asked about the little red speaker cable running to the back of the $80,000 XRT2Ks, the salesman responded, "A dollar fifty a foot, don't waste your money on anything more expensive". I'm guessing you would have tossed HIM out of the room. :-)
The latest models are capable of running both OS X and Windows XP, so what's not to like?
Why are you guys talking about driving speakers with a McIntosh? Even my "workhorse" tower Mac (forget the laptop) could not possibly drive big speakers.
(Return to reality here :^).
By the way, I walked into the McIntosh booth at CES and after listening to their system, the representative ask what I thought. I replied (with a smile on my face), "You guys have great sound and I really admire your computers too."
The guy got really pissed, nearly threw me out of the room! Any company so full of themselves and showing such a shallow sense of humor does not deserve my respect.
The funny thing is, I was the sales manager of a high end store that was the highest volume McIntosh dealer in a five state area. Odd that he gets so haughty, I was peddling Mc gear (probably) before was even out of high school.
Chadnliz; Yeah, I'm sure the only reason McIntosh isn't used in dealer demos is because the dealers/manufacturers think people are stupid. I'm sure it doesn't have anything to do the quality of the gear.
Also, McIntosh can't tell people what they can and can't do with their gear.
They do, I do and its not because it might be my last amp, plain and simple it fit my needs and I thought 501's were the best sounding under 10K amp out there. I didn't audition 20 amps but I did compare against some stiff competition. I'm also driving Thiel's so the match for me is perfect. I still tweak, experiment, upgrade, buy wire, move speakers, OCD,OCD...so not all audio enthusiasts buy Mac to stop the merry go round of madness...just to fit a need.
McIntosh gear may also not be used in some demo's because dealers know how immature and stupid some Audiophiles are, so why bother putting any equipment in a demo that will just turn off snobs, idiots and un-informed Audiophooles, maybe the company has a policy about its use gear, threads like these although alot of fun to read remind me how insane, foolish, and simple minded a far too high majority of people in this hobby can be, so go on freeze your CD'S. Cook your cables, place rocks on your gear, clocks in your room, paint your disc's green, lift your cables off the ground with $60 Pine, Cryo your listening chair and enjoy the music.
Pubul57, Your post exemplifies my experience of McIntosh. When I was finally willing to overcome my own "it's sub-audiophile" snobbery about it, I found that their amps/preamps in particular answer my primary goal, which is to turn off the analysis and simply enjoy the music. For those who prefer to chase--but not chew--the audio carrot, McIntosh is probably not for you.
Of course it is not the only reason. But I think part of it is that owning McIntosh equipment may just be too simple for enthusiasts. Most, not all, enthusiasts want to try different equipment, agonize over their cables, find synergestic components, etc - in other words, most, not all, want to play and have fun with the equipment side of the hobby. I think McIntosh equipment appeals to those who want great sound, a good value, ultra-reliable, minimum "syngery" games, and the enjoy the equipment for the next 20 years. These are not necessarily the goals or drives of enthusiasts. Speaking for myself, I like some alchemy, some worry, some tweaking, some pondering - I think McIntosh is for those for whom this element of the hobby is not a priority. You will hear enthusiasts say they have found their last amp, their last pre-amp, etc. it never happens, it can't hasppen to an enthusiast, but it does appear to happen to happy owners of Mac.
Anyone ever see a reputable speaker manufacturer or other high end manufacturer using McIntosh in their demo rooms at any of the shows??? Me neither.
Why do you think that is??
Because whether or not another manufacturer wanted to exhibit with McIntosh gear, I'm willing to bet that McIntosh doesn't allow it. For confirmation, you could ask them directly.
I think many audio enthusiasts use McIntosh, myself included. McIntosh has been in business for well over 50 years and has a huge, devoted customer base. McIntosh gear is some of the most coveted audio equipment on the planet and most buyers purchase it with an eye toward long-term ownership.
My amp progression has taken me from Hafler to Conrad Johnson to Krell to a Mac 352. True, all solid state, and all fine sounding amps, but the Mac is easily the best sounding amp I have ever owned. So there is my 2 cents.
I do, I have 501 monoblocks and I love them. I have also owned and heard many others. My last system was all BAT. 501's Stereophile awards the MC501 Monoblock Amplifier the Amplifier of the Year 2004. HiFi Grand Prix award goes to MC501 Monoblocks 2004. Absolute Sound reviews the 402/C46 amp/preamp and claims "the best sound I have had in my system"
So unless Stereophile, Absolute Sound and my own ears are lying, McIntosh makes great HIFI gear. I can't find one fault. Let your ears be the judge and give them an audition.
I don't think any of these posts actually answr the original question. The answers are mostly people who own McIntosh trying to vindicate their purchases and defend themselves.
But, I think it's true: Looking through discussion posts, at members' systems, real high end systems don't have a lot of McIntosh mixed in. Systems where I've seen them are ALL McIntosh.
I think they have a MidFi reputation and so people stray away. Regardless of how they really sound.
there is so many other products out ther better than mac it is funny.mac is like bose they been around for ever so people think it is the best.i would compare mac to adcom,rotel etc...
"My beef with McIntosh is the lack of service/support based upon my experiences. "
I thought MAC provide the best support bar none, just yesterday I was able to get a faceplate for a model more than 10 years old abd get personal tech support from Chuck!
BigJoe, Thanks so much for your response. I will be contacting Michigan Sound very soon. Damn though, I really did like the sound eminating from the MC2300. Wish Mac could have done more (something ... anything) to help repair that unit. John (Sit)
Dear Krellm7, I do not know if you've ever heard the XR-7 speakers accompanied by the MQ-107 Environmental Equalizer. The sound is so rich and natural that I believe they still compete with far more expensive units today. My beef with McIntosh is the lack of service/support based upon my experiences. Admittedly Mac quality on speakers went down for many years and may still be down, I don't know. But they had some terrific units in the 70's and early 80's. Beautiful to look at too with rather timeless design and very high quality materials and workmanship overall.
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