"you can listen to the James Gang on 8 track player and it's all good." Let's not get crazy now! :-)
Glad you are a fan, whart. What surprises me is how good the sonics are on that first album. On the other hand, listened to JW's Barnstorm (not a remaster but uncertain what "CD issue" it was) and the sonics were kind of painful. Good dynamics, not compressed but "loud" vocals had an edge to them and that's from CD ripped to hard drive.
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ghost- you can listen to the James Gang on 8 track player and it’s all good. Those albums with Joe W. were great- I play them as often as I play anything. They rock. |
Hey oleschool...you'll have to forgive me indulging an occasional need to get in a little "jab". Wasn't necessarily targeting you. Which Bel Canto? Post your system sometime. I do enjoy seeing the gear people are running. It can help give a context for their comments. I'm probably more like 90% digital and 10% vinyl. Have you tried ripping any CDs to hard drive and playing through your DAC? A nice improvement in SQ; a more relaxed, smoother sound (and not due to hi end roll off I don't believe).
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ghosthouse
I have Cambridge transport and a Bel Canto dac, I listen to both although i do lean towards vinyl . |
FWIW - exception to the (my) rule, maybe...
Don't want to sully you vinyl purists but just ordered The James Gang June 2000 remastered CDs of Yer Album and Thirds (already had Rides Again). Bill Szymczyk supposedly involved with the remastering. These versions on Spotify sounded pretty darn good with headphones so went ahead and ordered them. $5.00 each with 2 day Amazon Prime delivery. Nice detail and separation. Bass especially on Yer Album is well recorded. Neither sounds hot or shrill. |
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LIke I have said before I have a pretty decent setup,and it seems to me these albums are made to be played on systems lacking bass and in general poor performance and by no means an audiophile set up .I have not had good luck,often very bass heavy compressed or just weird "tunnel like "as if there trying to create a false sense of soundstage for a cheap bose set up or something .Maybe I should hook it up to my kitchen setup lol. I am listening to the 180 Genesis Nursey Cryme right now.remixed by Genesis and Nick Davis.I do like it it sounds digitized though,pinpoint quiet which was in no way anything Genesis lol the highs are not ripping my drivers out .But i will offer it a b- for what is came from.Although it sounds very cdish ( did i invent a word there lol) |
I tend toward original pressings --whatever that means re country, place of mastering, pressing, etc, at least as a reference point. But, some of these are extremely pricey, 4 figures sometimes. A good remaster serves a purpose. If you listen to pop, sometimes these can actually improve on the "original." RLJ's Pirates was an early digital recording on vinyl- it is an ear bleeder. The MoFi makes it tolerable. A friend asked me about an ORG Blood Sweat and Tears- I compared with an original US Columbia 2 eye and the ORG was richer and less strident. Some records, like the original Vertigos, or more obscure prog- the reissues generally suck, but the originals are nutty money. So, you either bite that bullet or go searching. And a lot of these records are hard to find in a really high quality state of play. I get lucky or break even on quality v condition most of the time, but there is a place for remasters. The issue then becomes which one. And sometimes the original record is just not a great recording. That's where I'll have a lot of copies- each has strengths and weaknesses--and typically, these are older pressings made at different times, not always current remasters. |
No Geoff,
Much simpler.
No need for term remaster -- too loud and heavy.
Re-issued Re-used Re-cycled, Copies or even darn counterfeit -- those are right and definite terms. I remember Beatles counterfeits that sounded actually good... Well today's ones I guess different.
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Judging from the data on the Unofficial Dynamic Range Database the term "remastered" can be translated to mean "overly compressed." |
I've had luck with a number of new vinyl reissues and I am very glad they have been released.
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I haven't heard one Beatles remaster worth spit. They're all wrong. I mean really, one needs to remaster the Beatles? They didn't know what they were doing? I always prefer the originals, first pressings if possible. Are you talking about Parlophone first pressings or Capitol first pressings, because many Capitol Beatles first pressings *were* remasters, with hard left-right panning and added reverb. I have the EMI/Parlophone Beatles in Mono LP collection and they're quite a revelation over the Capitol "stereo" ones I grew up on. I better connect with the Beatles' artistry on the mono reissues. To the OP: there are evidently a lot of crap reissues, and one thing that doesn't help is when they're digitally remastered. However, some reissues you can pretty much take to the bank because they are meticulously all-analog. Examples include Analogue Productions, Speakers Corner, and ORG. They're worth the money. Every Analogue Production pressing I have is an absolute treasure. |
Norm,
US early stereo originals and even UK ones very poorly mastered often with voice and bass on one side and the rest is on the other side. Early Mono Beatles are good.
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Norman- have you heard the old Horzu Die Beatles -2? It is a hoot, very spare, hard panned left and right, no additional effects.
I don't have original Parlophones to compare, but I thought the mono box on vinyl was good. |
I haven't heard one Beatles remaster worth spit. They're all wrong. I mean really, one needs to remaster the Beatles? They didn't know what they were doing? I always prefer the originals, first pressings if possible. Hey, today I bought (no Joke) 56 first pressings for one dollar each (garage sale a few doors down) Included was a third pressing Beatles Abbey Road with her majesty on the cover and label, and a first pressing emobossed numbered white album. I about passed out when I seen it. They are all good ++ condition. =) today I'm really happy.
Forget the remasters, that is NOT what the artist intended for you to hear. They are all soaked in reverb, massive unnatural bass and highs and piercing mids. I stopped buying them a few years back and give away the ones I have when the opportunity presents itself.
Norman |
Oleschool-
I took a chance with Yes CTTE, and was rewarded with the necessary noise free/black background for the complexities of side 1. The disappointment was that punched up bass that compared to an original,sounds unnatural. This album has a great deal of ambience,which the reissue does okay with.
With "Fragile," "Long Distance Runaround" has an enormous amount of Squire’s bass throughout the track. Can’t imagine it sounding any different from typical reissues (unless you have tone controls on your preamp!) That album is still easy to find in my neighborhood record store. CCTE however, most copies are a mess, but I’ve been lucky to find an almost MINT copy.
"I get up, I get down..." Almost a religious experience when the volume knob is at 12:00 o’clock. The illusion of hearing the pipe organ in a damp cave, along with Anderson’s buildup of the verse is hypnotic.
Sidenote: I had every Yes album in 78, as the 80’s progressed, I gave all my records away for that new shiny disc. I WAS DUPED!!! The last decade has been spent buying the albums I tossed!
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oleschool- i found an early japanese pressing that sounds good. The early UK one is big money, and the US one - my understanding is, it's more about the cover. I can check my deadwax on the pressing I like if you want. It wasn't that costly compared to the early UK. |
whart ,
Bowie ...The man who sold the world, it sounds like bowie is twenty feet back in a tube .I'm replacing so many albums due to my fire and most of these 180 gram purchases are suckin! I had hundreds and hundreds of jap pressings,triples of most stuff all purchesed in the 70-90s .Problem is I just don't live close to any good stores up in nor cal.I keep buying used and am disapointed in the abuse people put on there lp.At 17yrs old (87') we were way into lps we cleaned everything on a 16.5 vrp sleeve with a cover,onto the denon dp47 103 d.Yeh we were ahead of the curve due to the cool older sibling influence.Anyway I have taken to many chances on these 180grm "audiophile !" recordings lol .
Tablejockey ...
The yes fragile i have is pretty good honestly..
Genesis Wind and wuthering ..pretty good
Genesis The trick of the tail ...c+
Grateful Dead american beauty pretty good
( although i hear the 45 is great) most of the others sound like they were mixed for my car or some sh*t like that...
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I love the Beatles stereo re-masters. And although I grew up with the original mixes I wish they had re-mixed the ones where the original multi-track tapes survived. The re-mixed Yellow Submarine is amazing--the music really comes alive. Maybe in another ten years they'll finally re-mix and try to squeeze a few more bucks out of us.
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I gave up on reissues years ago.
Ive mentioned a similar outcome several times on AA-accentuated bass(compared to a period press) that just sounds LESS realistic IMO.
I think the marketing-"original tape" "whoever"mastering is simply another way into your wallet.
The only good thing about a reissue is getting something essentially impossible to find in the used bins in decent condition for cheap.
This phoenomena affects ALL R&R. Yes,Jeff Beck,Robin Trower,Pink Floyd and others a waste of my money.I am partial to the Beatles mono releases, only because an original is essentially unobtanium$$
Im more satisfied with a few stitches listening to a period release.
Jazz reissues from the 80's(not all) is a genre I've had good luck with.
Since my tastes lean toward pre 80's R&R, I avoid albums with a barcode. An easy way to ensure you're not getting a 2nd, 3rd....
press of something. Even "greatest hits" are lousy-avoid if possible! |
For LPs, got to discogs.com or wikipedia, find the original record company, get an original copy of the LP from the country of the original record company. Look for the lowest matrix number in the deadwax, i.e. 1A. If you find a stamp or writing of the original mastering facility in the deadwax, that is even better. For example, Sterling, Masterdisk, TML (The Mastering Lab), Kendun, Precision, GP (George Piros), Van Gelder, RL (Robert Ludwig). Forget reissues including the dreadful half-speeds. |
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In most all cases, the original, in the original format, from country of origin, is best sounding!
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Right. I stopped buying ANY remasters, LPs or CDs, with exception of some Japanese CDs. |
They're all mastered for today's systems. I like those mastered for vintage Pioneers and Sansuis. |
oleschool - you are not alone. You are commenting regarding vinyl but many of the remastered, reissued CDs seem too bright to me. They are just unpleasant to listen to (Hendrix - Axis Bold as Love; Todd Rundgren - A Wizard a True Star come to mind). I’ve started looking for original year of issue for the CD. Sometimes those aren’t as loud (loudness being another "bone of contention") but that’s what the volume knob is for. Sonically, these seem have a better overall sound though maybe giving up something in detail or instrument separation. |
