Same as T_bone, Brubeck,but I heard it on my parents radio-stereo combo (and old Fisher). What struck me were the time signature changes, as well as the sound of the combo.--Mrmitch |
bill evans at the village vanguard
i must have listened to jazz for over a decade before i really thought of it as a genre. as a child i suppose i thought jazz was dixie land rags. i probably had to hear gracan moncur III or eric dolphy before i knew what i was listening to was jazz.i listened to music i found difficult and unlikeable to my tastes. now they are basically my tastes.i love jazz. i started by accident and effort with bill evans, sunday at the village vanguard. 6/25/61. i can't even get the date out of my head! |
Dave Brubeck was the first jazz I heard on my parents' stereo. It was the only jazz album they had as far as I know. I must have played the record (Time Out) 5 times the first day I heard it, and that many times a day for the next week. Guess I broke the '24hr rule.' |
Frank Zappa's pieces "Twenty small cigars" and "Blessed Relief"...and then, Coltrane's "A Love Supreme" |
|
My parents have always had great taste in music and that certainly extended to the Jazz they listened to. I must have been four or five when "Song for My Father" came out and was placed on heavy rotation on the old Garrard. Joe Henderson's tenor solo on the title cut is still one of my absolute favorites. |
I am always amused at the writings of Ken Burns and Leonard Feather as well. Both are for the novice to learn about jazz, but no one has ever written a complete definitive accounting and if anyone does, no one will publish and if it is published, the lawyers will have a field day with it in court. About twenty years ago I started just such a project from an insider point of view. However family counsel as well as outside counsel, after they had read what was the rough draft, was advised not to proceed further.
So do read the Ken Burns and Leonard Feather documentary on jazz and be happy with that. It is in my opinion the best we have for now and I do respect them for their effort. |
Ken Burn's Jazz documentary is the most recent and definitive accounting of the history of Jazz, is it not? |
"You guys forgot Kenny G."
... and Herb Albert???? |
That was beautiful Newbee! Thanks for taking the time and effort. |
"And so it has become.........."
And so it has, however I reject the proposition that any discussion of the CULTURAL roots of any music are in some way latent expressions of racism.
Music is what it is. Racism is what it is. They have no relationship to each other. Anyone who understands the history of the world, the nations, and their peoples, appreciates their contribution to where we are to day. Skin color isn't much more than that of geographical accident and evolution.
We should learn to better appreciate the benefits of multi-culturism but not, in order to be PC, exclude discusions of its origins, its developements, its participants and their contributions, as well as personal preferences for music by different performers and cultures at different periods of time.
For example I love the African drumming! Can't really appreciate all of those drum solo's in most jazz....it ain't the same. I love jazz vocalists, especially when it is infused with a natural (culteral perhaps) feeling for the song - emotional, evolving... like Eva Cassidy singing "Wading in the Water (how was that for PC - didn't say of our modern singers, Mary Stallings, Laverne Butler, Rene Marie) I love that style. Is it coincidental that most of the singers of this style are Black. I don't think so, but its not because of their skin, its is IMHO because of their cultural roots of the music.
Some folks listen to Danny Boy and think aim't it beautiful....Some think, ah a protest song by those Irishmen who hated the Englishmen who invaded and oppressed them for so many centuries, I think of Eva Cassidy! Who is right? We are all right, it is beautiful, it was a very sad sad expression of the oppressed, and Eva's version brings tears to my eyes. We are all right and what we have in common is the appreciation of the music, the appreciation of its history, and the appreciation of a great rendition.
I'll get off my box now - excuse the rant.
|
|
I recall that Nat King Cole had a 15 minute TV show in the early 50's but that was short lived because no company was willing to stand up and sponsor the show.I also recall that the early group harmony sound prior to do-wop could not be heard on white run radio stations but these hardships are not why Nat Cole's music lives on.It was his talent and talent does not have a color |
"So in the final analysis good ole american jazz is a multi-cultural affair that has withstood all the obstacles and has become our true art form to enjoy."
..and so it has become and I don't think your view is skewed at all, but as I mentioned, the beginnings were difficult and much of the mood of the music in those years expressed those difficulties very clearly. There were more musicians than Brubeck who tried to bridge the gap, win trust, respect and recognition, but it took time. |
Perhaps my view and take is somewhat skewed here as I was in the business with CBS/Columbia and knew many of the names menetioned in this thread. Yep old geezer now, but the fire and memories of this time burn very deep. And some of the back water stories I could tell would warrant a book. Most respondents here are not of that era, but I lived a bunch of it first hand. Even in the days of segragation it was always about the music. On many occassions Dave Brubeck would turn down a TV appearance or live concert date, because in the contract they did not want to have Eugene Wright on camera or on stage. Brubeck would not allow this to happen to his friend. Eugene "The Senator" Wright was a valued member of the quartet and deserved as much recognbition as any other member of the quartet. And that is just one instance of long before integration where fellow jazz musicians defended each other. And lets not forget the jazz clubs on the other side where white musicians were not welcome. But through it all in those days it was the jazz musicians the held together and pushed the boundries of humanity against some very steep odds. Thankfully those days are behind us and never to be repeated. Trust me on this the records labels were color blind, once again the focal point was the music and the artist. So in the final analysis good ole american jazz is a multi-culutural affair that has withstood all the obstacles and has become our true art form to enjoy. |
Hm, Rockvirgo, I would fully agree with your following sentence, which I incidentally find very well put, that "assigning racial labels to individuals or groups in an attempt to somehow explain, define or symbolically organize their behavior is the absurdity of racism itself." But please do not forget, that I was alluding to a time, which incidentally I am still acutely aware of, but which lies now almost 50 to 60 years behind us. Every generation interprets history, especially cultural history according to its own needs and values and what you rightly call cultural myopia now, was then within the very cradle of modern jazz seen, lived, interpreted and understood quite differently. And you're not quite right I feel, though Beethoven would be Beethoven wherever he lived and worked, his music would be not the same, had he composed in London or St.Petersburg and not in Vienna. Just as much as Handel's compositions do - at least in part - reflect the needs and tastes of the London society of his time.
My turntable is black and sounds black if thus fed by the way. (; |
Yeah I can appreciate the cultural myopia that might conclude that jazz is an answer to social ostracism or that musicians who must work for a living never tire of complaining about the competition. But of all the genres jazz is the one solely about its sound, one that transcends looks, cars, clothes and hairstyles. Cultural pride is righteous but assigning racial labels to individuals or groups in an attempt to somehow explain, define or symbolically organize their behavior is the absurdity of racism itself. Detlof, does a turntable sound white due to its creative origin? Beethoven isn't great because of where or when he lived. Genius is genius. Some cats can play and some can't. |
Detlof , Apologies are not necessary.You are not fans of Mulligan or Baker that's fine.I happen to be a fan,but that just me.I still appreciate your posts and insights. |
Newbee, nice of you to chime in. In a sense, and I mean this with a touch of malice, you may be right. Never thought of Chet's music this way. His audience? I wouldn't really know. But our "intellectuals" in Europe, especially those who flirted with more than just weed, loved him. Speaking of dinner jazz...do you know Carla Bleys *Dinner Music" ? Hilarious!
Cheers,
Detlof |
Goldeneraguy, it makes sense what you say of course. Besides this is all purely personal. I don't pretend to be an expert. All I am recounting is the fact, that today, now quite old, I still am moved by the music of those names I mentioned, while the likes of Baker or Mulligan et al don't really get me involved. It is "interesting" for me, but that's it. I does not get below skin level.But this is off-topic anyway. So my apologies and I'll shut up. |
Detlof,
Detlof, FWIW, I think we share a 'personal taste' in jazz.
A question. Is Chet singing music an oxymoron? I wasn't part of the jazz culture when he was on the scene. Who was his audience? I enjoyed his trumpet playing some, but then he would pause and 'sing'. Glad he wasn't playing dinner jazz. Or jazz at dinner. :-)
|
Detlof ,I would not call Chet Baker or Gerry Mulligans music contrived in any way.You might be referring to the different styles of the day. East Coast vs. West Coast with East Coast being more straight ahead and trying push the envelope so to speak |
True of course, Ferrari, I was thinking more of the hard core crowd of those times. I heard Mulligan live in Paris many years ago, collected LPs of all the names you have mentioned, but even in my early years I found their music "intellectual and contrived" in comparison to what Parker, Miles, Coltrane etc.etc had to offer, I found their music gutsier, dirtier. I loved Chet, but he never shook me down to my guts or made me grin as sometimes Dizzy could. It's all personal taste of course. The very origin of jazz however, if I am informed right and no matter to what happened to this strand of music later, is black after all. |
Ferrari's post beat me to to it.Jazz is not Black or White.It is America's Music and appreciated all over the world |
The jazz domain by black americans is well documented, but we would be in error not to acknowlege the gifts of white musicians of the same period such as Gerry Mulligan, Chet Baker, Dave Brubeck, Bill Evans,Red Rodney, Ira Sullivan,Shelly Manne, Buddy Rich, Art Pepper, Pepper Adams and the list can go on and on. To me jazz is so much more than a black/white idiom. It is the music itself and the artist that put it forth. During the heyday of the bop and later bebop revolution in jazz all the greats both black and white pushed this music to very lofty heights indeed. And they all worked together in sessions and live concerts to give us this gift. |
Ella Fitzgerald - specifically the Rome 40th birthday concert. |
Mapman
Your examples are not Jazz in its strict sense and what are "fine and more accessible elements" of Jazz? To me, Jazz is essentially "black music" and for sociological reasons alone, think of Mingus, Parker, Miles, it is not necessarily intended to sound "fine" but rather "dirty" and is essentially, when it comes down to the nitty-gritty, a musical answer to the social ostracism suffered by the Afro-American community in the heyday of Jazz. Black musicians will tell you, that later this music was "stolen" from them by and became mainstream. Just to add to what Cwlondon said above. |
Does "Chicago" count?
How about "Blood Sweat and Tears"?.
Didn't a lot of folks get first exposure to some finer and more accessible elements of Jazz through these guys? |
Goldeneraguy,
I can take or leave "Feels So Good" these days though it was a big breakthrough hit for the guy back in the 70's.
The Mangione album I still own, play with some regularity and really enjoy is "Tarantella". |
When I was a teenager my mom owned Billy Joel's album 52nd street. In the song Zanzibar, Freddie Hubbard blows a trumpet solo that, when I first heard it, I listened to over and over. I decided then and there that I liked this jazz stuff. Freddie Hubbard is a long way down on my list of jazz favorites, but I cannot deny that his Zanzibar solo truly was the gateway drug for me. |
Was into prog-rock, back in the 70's, so my first expansion into "jazz" was progressive. perhaps Return to Forever or one of those prog-jazz bands of the time. I know I litened to lots of things in that vein as I entered college and was exposed to it by my new dorm friends. RTF, Coryell, Holdsworth, Caldera, McLaughlin, etc.
Enjoy,
Bob |
My Grandma used to let me play her 78's of Ella, Ellington, Hawkins & Lester Young when I was about 4 years old, on an old wind-up gramaphone and then Dave Brubeck was probably a re-awakening about 8 years later.
I suppose 55 years later and still adding to my 12000+ collection of vinyl & c.d.'s, you could say that I'm hooked on jazz. |
I attended a concert by ECM artists at Berklee in Boston 'round about 1972 (Rypdal, Towner, etc)and that was that. |
Not only can I tell the artist (Oscar Peterson) and the LP (Montreux '77 on Pablo) I can tell you the song that got me hooked: "Ali and Frazier". My RA was playing this in his dorm room my first day of college and I've been addicted ever since! I still get goosebumps every time I put on that record. |
I too got turned on to jazz at a high end audio shop ("Keith Jarrett at the Blue Note"). But I really got HOOKED when I befriended another customer I met while in that same shop. He invited me over and introduced me to his extensive classic jazz collection. It's hard to know which one really got me; it would probably be between "Kind of Blue" and Keith Jarrett's "Koln Concert". |
Mapman , I had the pleasure of meeting Al Hirt at Moms in New Orleans about 20 years back.
I listen to Coltrane "My Favorite Things about one a month and each time I listen I still hear and learn something new from this recording.
I also have Mangione's Feels So Good I loved it when it first was released.My wife still enjoys it but I have to leave the room when she wants to hear it.Funny how things change over time.
Now,back to the question.1955 Count Basie "April In Paris"
|
Larry Coryell "Fairyland" |
Great thread ... Cwlondon, a second to your comment about understanding "jazz". Kind of Blue was done with little preparation in a single take.
|
Ir was my first experiences with good audio circa 1980 that got me out of listening to only pop and rock music, and I too enjoyed Spyro Gyra, Weather Report, John Klemmer and Herbie Hancock.
About 20 years later, I took some jazz piano lessons some years ago, by a very old school musician/composer/professor who asked me what kind of jazz music I liked.
I mentioned a few things which others have mentioned above, including Vince Guaraldi.
I will never forget the embarrassment I felt when he looked at me and said: "That's NOT jazz!"
Since his remark, I discovered and more thoroughly explored Miles Davis and in particular Kind of Blue.
I also enjoy my audiophile classics which I now understand to be "contemporary instrumental music."
For a more profound understanding of what "jazz" really means, check out the DVD of Herbie Hancock collaborating with pop stars including Christina Aguilera and John Mayer.
It is a mesmerizing thing to watch, and during various interviews, Herbie explains that Miles said it was OK to practice, but just make sure that they did NOT do whatever they did practicing when they were on stage.
Anything rehearsed also was not "jazz".
cheers,
cwlondon |
Mingus- Better get hit in your soul. |
Billy Cobham - Spectrum - played on EV horn speakers driven by Dynaco amp |
Miles Davis - In a Silent Way in 1969. I was 16 and this album was mesmerizing. |
Stan Getz and Louis Armstrong. |
Roland Kirk, Hugh Masakela and Miles. |
Lee Morgan's "Sidewinder" opened the door. |
Two come to mind right away Dave Brubeck in 1959 and in 1960 Red Garland. But early on it was Bud Powell about 1954 or so. |
Charlie Parker.The Yardbird the best then,the best now. |
Miles Davis' in a silent way. A friend put it on a tape for me. I probably played that tape 100 times. |
I think it was 1960.I heard Maynard Ferguson's rendition of My Funny Valentine.He hit notes that very few others could. After listening to Maynard play I wanted to go back and listen to anyone else that recorded this masterpiece.That was just about everyone and i've been hooked on Jazz ever since |
More Jazz Fusion than JAZZ but for me it was Pat Metheny and Jean Luc Ponty back in high school. |
