Who thinks $5K speaker cable really better than generic 14AWG cable?

213runnin, I am not an attorney, but I would respectfully disagree that selling a $50 cable for $5,000 and saying it is one of the worlds best would be running afoul of any consumer laws. There will always be someone who purchased the cable who will believe it is the best, and it would take a very ignorant manufacturer who could not "dig up" a couple of extremely satisfied customers.

Now I will say I have no idea about manufacturing costs, but I think that the fact you can get 12 gauge 99% pure copper speaker wire for less than a dollar a foot, and that once you figure in the magic ingredients mixed in with the copper and any added coating to the copper, and then factor in the cost of the fancy cover and a great connector, you still have a reasonable manufacture cost per foot. I hate to say this, but how much R&D does it take to make a piece of wire? Just an opinion.

Two simple points.  One, I'm not claiming that selling a $50 cable for $5000 is against consumer laws.  I made several points, it's not clear to me whether you disagree with any of those.

Two, the kind of speaker cables we are talking about here are not simple 12 gauge copper.  Look up wireworld.com speaker cables, Audioquest, etc., and note their designs which get quite exotic.  I have no idea how much it costs them per foot to make some of those designs, care to make a guess?

Geoff stuttered:
most high end wire is 99.9999 pure. Do the math. That’s more than 100 times purer than 99.95% pure copper. Hel-loo

Let say the high end wire was 100% pure.  The monoprice wire at 99.95% pure is 5 one hundredths of a percent purer.  In multiplication that amounts to .05 of 1%(.01) purer.

Jitter
Geoff stuttered:
most high end wire is 99.9999 pure. Do the math. That’s more than 100 times purer than 99.95% pure copper. Hel-loo

to which jitter replied,

"Let say the high end wire was 100% pure. The monoprice wire at 99.95% pure is 5 one hundredths of a percent purer. In multiplication that amounts to .05 of 1%(.01) purer."

Gee whiz, I must have had more math than you, jitter. Your numbers don’t make any sense. I have to assume you're pulling my leg.

Geoff, you are trying to be persuasive by making your argument implying that 100 times this or that might be meaningful, and not explaining that 100 times a tiny fraction of 1% is still not a material number, is it not so?

213runnin, I do agree with your other points.  The only thing that I meant to bring up is that for a lot of our gear, while it is very expensive, we can look inside and see from the build quality some of the reasons why.

But for the cables, who knows what it costs to produce them, plain as well as exotic.  You ask me if I know, and I was trying to say I have no idea, but starting at a base case wire such as Canare, Belden, Mogami, it can get way expensive quick. It may well cost that much more to manufacture it, I was just bringing up the void in knowledge and you can't take the top off and see why, one way or the other. . 

From the Acrolink website (Japan)

"There is a strong demand in the market for high purity copper with a purity level of 6N or more, which is used to produce the wire material of highly integrated semiconductors. It had been developed and put in practical use in 1997. As a matter of fact, the only companies in the world today producing high purity raw copper in large quantities are none other than Nikko Materials Co. Ltd. and Mitsubishi Materials Co. Ltd. The business circles of integrated semiconductors demand a guarantee of high quality for raw materials, and in fact no enterprise is satisfied with the copper that has less purity than 6N copper for the purposes of mass production of their products. ACROLINK, the only cable-maker in the world that uses 6N copper and copper of higher purity receives a guarantee of analyzed values through a tie-up with the aforementioned two companies.

There is a strong demand in the market for high purity copper with a purity level of 6N or more, which is used to produce the wire material of highly integrated semiconductors. It had been developed and put in practical use in 1997. As a matter of fact, the only companies in the world today producing high purity raw copper in large quantities are none other than Nikko Materials Co. Ltd. and Mitsubishi Materials Co. Ltd. The business circles of integrated semiconductors demand a guarantee of high quality for raw materials, and in fact no enterprise is satisfied with the copper that has less purity than 6N copper for the purposes of mass production of their products. ACROLINK, the only cable-maker in the world that uses 6N copper and copper of higher purity receives a guarantee of analyzed values through a tie-up with the aforementioned two companies.

Currently in the field of audio cables, representation of the purity degree of raw materials has been offered in the form of 6N, 7N, 8N, etc. However, from the viewpoint of scientific reality, the percentage of raw materials should be calculated by the differential value method. Strictly speaking, the purity of copper should be shown in the form of numerical numbers, after the total amount of the quantitative measurements of the other metallic elements( impure materials )other than pure gold on the periodic table, are subtracted from 100. Under the current situation where there is no agreement to show quality standards, the values of the amounts of the raw material( indication of purity) will vary according to each case where some impurities can be counted and others can not. In other words, it is even possible to remove intentionally a certain impurity, i.e. a certain metallic element with a higher value, from the measurement. For instance, general purpose Japanese copper metal has a purity degree of 4N5 with a purity of 99.995% but there are several impurities such as Ag that have very high degrees of impurity. If it is excluded from the targets for the differential value method, it immediately enables you to publicize the data that the copper has a high degree of purity, i.e. a higher degree than 5N because Ag has the purity degree of 10ppm or so.

Cables produced by ACROLINK, use self-stipulated 6N copper constructed using the same process as is used with wires for semiconductor devices, which requires a guarantee of high quality. More precisely, the purity of the copper needs to be over 99.9999% and the total of any impurity metals must be less than 1 ppm.

Impurity metals in over 6N purity copper are measured mostly with highly precise measuring instruments called GD-Ms (GD-Mass), and this type of analysis work requires advanced know-how. Leading other brands, ACROLINK has disclosed to the public the analyzed values of representative elements that may affect sound qualities. These were selected out of the whole body of elements consisting of fifty or sixty items."

It continues to astound me how naive the economic logic is in this discussion. Since when does cost of goods have any real bearing on what the price of a cable is? Any rational cable manufacturer would seek to price the cable to value derived and keep a price ladder across their range. So if the top end cables which give that last bit of performance to a $500k system are worth $50k to the purchaser then that is is what you should charge. Sure another competitor can try and undercut but frankly at this end of the market you're not selling on price but on value (real and/or perceived). Having spent my career prIcing pharmaceuticals this is a logic the whole industry is based on (which causes its own problems but at least no one can claim they're suffering because of being denied the latest cables😄)

so i guess the Anticables ref 2 wire at 5ppm impurity must be bad stuff then.
Guess thats why its only $6 a foot
Oh and won more absolute sounds editors choice awards that I can count
And has a 30 day money back guarantee
My order is in........

A manufacturer can produce a cable of "exotic" design and beautiful appearance for $5 a foot.  He can then choose to sell it for $10 per foot or $750 a foot.  If it looks good enough, he might decide to market it as exceptionally high-end and sell it for the higher amount knowing that those with a higher disposable income, but no particular knowledge of basic acoustic science, will assume if it is priced at $750 it MUST be better and will, accordingly, sound better.  Once the cables are changed out their eyes will widen and their jaws will drop at the amazing increase in sound stage, transparency, texture and openness the new cables provide.  This actually is science...the field we know as psychology.

The only negative with ref 2 is that you don't get as much bass as with the more expensive by a lot models.  With the more expensive by a lot models and their greater bass extension, you won't need the sub you think you are missing, and the money for the sub will be better spent at anticables.  And Their Customer service is great to top it off!

The idea that a manufacturer can "choose" to sell $5/ft(their cost) cable for $750/ft shows a complete ignorance of basic economics.  Also ignorance of the expense of exotic cable designs, and the cost of high purity silver, now that I think of it.   I was going to dig up some links to educate in these areas, but I realize that where dogma is concerned, logic and education can not help.  

Yea, it seems like dynaquest is playing fast and loose with his "alternative facts".

does silver make the cable sound better?

or just enhance your expectation bias?

If you think that more expensive cables don’t represent a good value, then don’t buy them! Why the crusader-like fervor ridiculing the choices of others that feel and act differently regarding how they choose to participate in this HOBBY?

Some of these posts fall only slightly short of suggesting that the sale of hi-end cables should be outlawed. Really? Why? On what basis? C’mon folks, that is a complete loss of perspective.

How do others’ buying decisions affect you? Are they buying these cables with government subsidies paid for by your taxes? Are they stealing from you to pay for them? Are these expensive cables polluting the environment compared to cheaper ones? Are your children being exposed to life-threatening addictions by hi-end cable manufacturers? Are your constitutional rights being violated by manufacturers and buyers of expensive cables? Are your lives or way-of-life being threatened by the hi-end cable marketplace? Do expensive cables kill you? Can they readily be used to kill you?

Please step back from this thread, take a deep breath, and think this over for a while.

Dave

213runnin says: "The idea that a manufacturer can "choose" to sell $5/ft(their cost) cable for $750/ft shows a complete ignorance of basic economics."

The above statement demonstrates a complete ignorance of the reality of high end cable/IC/wire marketing and sales.  Though the numbers are estimates, the concept is real.  If these over priced audio products were under the perview of the FDA or the FCC, they would be under investigation by the government...but they physically harm no one and generally only take advantage of the those with money to waste, little understanding of science and no interest in research.  I'm not too concerned about those that are duped into giving money away, but it does bother me that these manufacturers get away with hawking this 21st century snake oil equivalent.

Dynaquest, you obviously have no idea what the costs may be. You’re just guessing and extrapolating from there, and that’s not useful to the discussion.  My above comments on consumer protection laws still stands.  

The above comment about silver from Randy-11. Randy, did you know that silver conducts electricity significantly better than copper? Superior conductivity is only one of its benefits. Why don’t you google  this, you’d be surprised at the other main benefit.

I have no doubt that much more expensive cables with the correct much more expensive construction( silver etc) could actually represent an improvement in the right system to the right ears and would never knock ANYBODY for paying for them and being happy with the results.
I just know that my system is not ready yet for these very expensive cables, whether I can afford them or want to afford them is irrelevant right now.

If you need 99.9999 pure copper versus regular copper then you have serious problems with your components. We are talking infinitesimally small differences in performance. Components should be properly designed to handle infinitesimally small differences without any affect on performance. It is easy to design the output stage or the input impedance stage of an amp to handle a useful range of loads (all commonly used types of cable) with aplomb.

@shadorne ... I don't think it's that components won't work resonably well with less pure conductors or less exotic architectures. It's the fact that many of us on here are OCD and have good hearing.. So we notice these tiny differences and then mess with what those differences offer.
I'm sure you know this. I, personally, don't have super pure copper in my cables, but having experimented with different materials and architectures has led me to believe these subtleties do make a difference. So if some say purity matters, I won't dismiss it out of hand until I experiment myself.

"I won’t dismiss it out of hand until I experiment myself."

That statement right there negates all of the speculative bluster throughout this thread. Well said, Todd.

Dave

213runnin 1-23-1017
... did you know that silver conducts electricity significantly better than copper? Superior conductivity is only one of its benefits. Why don’t you google  this, you’d be surprised at the other main benefit.

The fact that silver has a lower resistivity/higher conductivity than copper is often mentioned in audiophile discussions.  But to provide some perspective:

For a given length and gauge, the resistance of silver is in the vicinity of about 6 to 8% lower than the resistance of copper.  However, simply making the copper conductor one gauge size larger will reduce its resistance by about 20%.  Also, making the copper conductor more than 8% shorter than the silver conductor would result in the copper conductor having less resistance than the silver conductor, even if both conductors are the same gauge.  Finally, in the case of line-level analog interconnects resistance is almost always insignificant anyway, in a home audio system, because it is a completely miniscule fraction of the load impedance.

So if a silver cable sounds better in a given application than a copper cable, the slightly higher conductivity/lower resistivity of silver compared to copper is very unlikely to be the reason.

Regards,
-- Al
  

Todd,

I would actually say our hearing is pretty unreliable when it comes to infinitessimally small differences and more often than not we think we hear something because we are expecting to!

This is why designers rely on instrumentation to test and fine tune products for QC and not ears. Otherwise everything would be handbuilt by craftspeople hand selecting what they felt sounded the best. Generally everything in audio manufacturing is prescribed right down to each capacitor - manufacturers don’t have a box of capacitors and another box of audio cables in the factory and start the day by saying "mmmm, let me see if this sounds nice" - everything is built to specifications using components that have a range of tolerances.

Anyone who frets about 99.9999 pure copper in their cables ought to worry about about the typical tolerances on capacitors, which is 20%!!!!! Worse - most capacitors vary performance with voltage as well as temperature!!!! Maybe those fretful special quality cable folks ought to be worried about controlling room temperatures to within 0.01 degrees or at least placing their components in a tightly temperature and humidity controlled cabinet.

"manufactures don't have a box of capacitors and another box of audio cables in the factory and start the day by saying "mmmm, let me see if this sounds nice" - everything is built to specifications using components that have a range of tolerances."

Exactly why it is up to the customer to experiment.

Dave

Good succinct article on cables

http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=5885

And it starts:

"Most of you know I’m not a believer in the sonic enhancements attributed to fancy, expensive cables."

Then it ends:

"If there is an “unbelievable” change, someone is juicing the results."

I love objective reporting.

Dave

I found that article specifically objective.  Did you read more than the first and last sentences.  Anyone who finds this test less than objective just doesn't want to see/hear/believe the results.  The psyco-placebo effect personified.  

Yeah, I read it all.

"The psyco-placebo effect personified.".

My point exactly. Based on his opening, the author was intent on proving there are no differences, thus he proclaimed to hear none.

Do you think that your trite and worn out contentions, repeated ad-nauseam, are helpful to anyone, dynaquest?   

Dave

Dynaquest, of course you found the article to be objective.

Al,
yes I’ve heard the arguments against silver. We could play that game all day. You upsize your copper and shorten the length, then I upsize my silver and shorten the length. The problem is, that’s not real world. We don’t want to shorten our speaker cables and move our speakers closer together. Who goes out and buys one gauge bigger copper cables then laughs at all the money he saved over silver?

Silver conducts better than copper. But what about the other factor? When copper tarnishes, it reduces conductivity. When silver tarnishes, it does not reduce conductivity. a couple of months ago I bought a pair of interconnects that are a simple 24 gauge silver single conductor design. I have a pair of 24 gauge copper pair and the improvement with the silver pair is ridiculous.

I don’t really care what’s going on at the atomic level to make this happen. I haven’t pulled out my various meters to measure and given myself triple blind tests or gone to the doctor to test my hearing. the difference isn’t subtle. I don’t have to strain to hear the difference. Now, I have some decent Parasound Halo gear and Sierra 2 speakers. I have no idea if these IC’s would work on a Denon receiver or one from 1972.

I don’t care. It works. The sound is superior by far. If it had not been, I had the option to send them back. It’s no big deal, they weren't that much.

Almarg
So if a silver cable sounds better in a given application than a copper cable, the slightly higher conductivity/lower resistivity of silver compared to copper is very unlikely to be the reason.

I'll go out on a limb here and say that silver never sounds like copper, not under any conditions. Of course it would also be fair to say all silver cables don't sound alike. Nor do all copper cables sound alike. Nor do amorphous conductors like carbon sound like metal conductors. 

Al,
yes I’ve heard the arguments against silver.

To be sure it's clear, my previous post was not making or implying an argument against silver. 

It was simply saying that the fact that silver has a slightly higher conductivity/lower resistivity than copper, which is often cited as an argument in favor of silver, is very unlikely to be the reason for whatever sonic differences may occur between a silver cable and a copper cable.

Regards,
-- Al
 

Re the "good succinct article on cables"

Obviously it’s not really too hard to find a bunch of audiophiles somewhere who either can’t set up a system correctly and/or can’t hear. In fact, we see it quite frequently right here on Agon. Actually no single test of anything proves anything, I’m afraid. If everyone at the test heard it you could say, well, it was rigged, group hypnosis or peer pressure. 😄

I would not conclude that "all cables" don't make a difference based on a speaker cable test. In my experience, power cords and interconnects make the most difference, then speaker cables. And with speaker cables, the more plastic and rubber on the cable ( like some high end cable) the worse they sound. So I can understand when someone uses raw, good quality copper cable to hook up their speakers, the sound is good. Now get some with better copper, thin high quality insulation, and leave off the fancy gold plated brass connectors.

dlcockrum says (regarding the DR. Waldrep article/test): "My point exactly. Based on his opening, the author was intent on proving there are no differences, thus he proclaimed to hear none."

What you failed to mention, in over site, is that  other audio professionals were involved in the test; to wit:

 "A group of professional audio engineers that work in other studios in the building (including a Grammy award winner) couldn’t detect any difference — and neither could I! I simply let them listen and switch between the DACs — and no one reported hearing even the slightest change. If the designer of the cable notices a “dramatic” difference at his place, I don’t know how he does it. In my “high resolving” studio, no one could hear any fidelity change when using a $3000 power cord vs. the $1.50 one that is supplied by Benchmark (and which they recommend!)."

Dr. Waldrep has a Masters and two Phd's in music and computer science and over thirty years as a recording and mastering engineer.  Who do you think I'm going to put credibility in?

Appeal to Authority Alert!!

"Dr. Waldron has two Phd’s in music and computer science and over thirty years as a recording and mastering engineer. Who do you think I’m going to put credibility in?"

Sorry to say, that just screams Appeal to Authority. You know, an illogical argument. An excellent example, actually.

cheers

To be sure it's clear, my previous post was not making or implying an argument against silver.

It was simply saying that the fact that silver has a slightly higher conductivity/lower resistivity than copper, which is often cited as an argument in favor of silver, is very unlikely to be the reason for whatever sonic differences may occur between a silver cable and a copper cable.

Thank you, Al, I understood your points.  I'm saying that I've heard them before, they are common arguments(or points, or whatever you'd like to call them), and we could go back and forth on this for weeks.  Seriously.  Just like this thread.  I wouldn't want to waste your time, however.  You seem quite knowledgeable and polite to boot.

In my simple comparison, you are saying that something else was at play that gave me the better sonics.  Also not a new argument.  But I've compared 7 or 8 different pairs of interconnects in my system.  It can't be RCA connectors, or shielding, or the building line supply or other devices in the branch circuits or my hearing or the room sonics or the rest of the system.  

At the end of the day, you believe whatever you feel led to believe.  That's fine.  But I'm not going to ignore jaw dropping results with solid core silver conductor cables because someone on the internet thinks otherwise.  I know my system, I know what the results are and I'm happy to let others think whatever makes them happy.  

But for those who have heard differences in cables, and want to improve on entry level cabling for cheap, look into solid core silver cables from Stager Sound.   I'm not affiliated with them in any way, just impressed with what they've done with silver at the price point.

goef...sorry, I do not get your comment: "Sorry to say, that just screams Appeal to Authority. You know, an illogical argument. An excellent example, actually."

What does this mean?

Dynaquest4

No worries. here's the explanation of what I posted.

Argument from authority, also ad verecundiam and appeal to authority, is a common form of argument which leads to a logical fallacy.[1]

In informal reasoning, the appeal to authority is a form of argument attempting to establish a statistical syllogism.[2] The appeal to authority relies on an argument of the form:[3]

A is an authority on a particular topic
A says something about that topic
A is probably correct
Fallacious examples of using the appeal include any appeal to authority used in the context of logical reasoning, and appealing to the position of an authority or authorities to dismiss evidence,[4][5][6][7] as authorities can come to the wrong judgments through error, bias, dishonesty, or falling prey to groupthink. Thus, the appeal to authority is not a generally reliable argument for establishing facts.[8]

Forms
General
The argument from authority can take several forms. As a syllogism, the argument has the following basic structure:[5][9]

A says P about subject matter S.
A should be trusted about subject matter S.
Therefore, P is correct.
The second premise is not accepted as valid, as it amounts to an unfounded assertion that leads to circular reasoning able to define person or group A into inerrancy on any subject matter.[5][10]

"Who do you think I’m going to put credibility in?"

Your narcisism prevents you from understanding that neither I, nor anyone else, cares with whom you place credibility.

My challenge is limited to your continuous diatribe that other people cannot possibly hear what they report to hear, thus it can only be expectation bias, an argument that lacks both reason and credibility. I encourage them to listen for themselves and decide.

Dave

Goef: thanks for the explanation.  Part of that sounded algebraic or similar to finate math; but I get your point.

Dlcockrum: I get that you do not care for my point of view and beliefs relative to this issue... but getting personal and lobbing insults doesn't enhance your auruments, it is just that - insulting.  Not to worry, I have thick skin.

Once again dynaquest, you missed the point. It is not important whether or how anyone regards your, my, or anyone else's point of view. It is important that they listen for themselves and decide for themselves.

Dave

@ dlcockrum: I may have missed your point but I doubt seriously I missed the point.  That point is that before people spend hundreds or (even) thousands of dollars on pretty cables with shiney connects, that come in felt bags and wooden boxes, that they are aware of the insideous power of the subconscious that will lead their ears to justify the money they spent on accessories that are incapable of improving audio signals.  That psyco-effect is real.  To deny it is sophomoric.

I’m sure that we all will sleep better knowing that you are protecting us from psych-effects, dynaquest.

Dave

dynaquest said: " That psyco-effect is real."
According to Google, there is no such thing.

Yawn...

listen for themselves with their ears?

or listen for themselves with their eyes?

Most folks I know listen with their ears. lol

pops is right. Past time to move on. Sorry pops.

Dave

Yes...long past time to move on past this thread which I’ll also try to do after sending this...

dynaquest: Going back a few layers, Dr. Waldrep is a recognized authority on multi-channel recording and mastering technologies and I have extremely high respect for his work and I own nearly every DVD-A he ever produced sitting within sight of me writing this response. A key question is however, did you assess his inherent bias or at least system of beliefs on the topic before you included him as the only one authority running a test that you cite? Appeal to authority is, as others have pointed out already, a de facto self-invalidating & weakening tactic for any argument, PARTICULARLY when you include only one authority who may have a belief system that is skewed one way or the other. Not saying Dr. Waldrep has one view or the other but it is clear that you cite him because he happens to have chosen the outcome that fits your side of the story, and further, that you did not cite any results that don’t support your point of view regardless of source. There is a subtlety too in what he writes in that part of the A/B test they he allowed them to just "switch between DACs..."; it seems to me that this alone is the basis for declaring the test questionable / partially faulty, regardless of the outcome. If the intent is to run a blind-test on "expensive cord" versus "inexpensive/almost free or stock cord", how is a test also including switching the frame of reference test device considered valid?

The amazing thing to me about this entire thread is the fact that some of you seem absolutely intent on bashing, insulting and brow-beating anyone into submission who does not believe as you do. On the other hand, many of us who have supposedly been duped, drunk the kool-aid from the cable vendors, don’t know what we are hearing, have inferior systems of perception and judgement, etc...and all the other little flawed argument-based insults various people have thrown out there,....are perfectly fine and at peace with the fact that you don’t believe as we do, or in SOME cases with SOME cables, a difference can be heard in our systems but that you don't hear such things ever in yours and further refuse to be open to the concept.

Personally I say "More power to you...!" that you are happy with your system, cables and cords; you may very well be right and you may very well be a lot smarter and have alot more cash left for other things than I do :-) and you have not made the mistakes with cables that I have, since you did not spend alot on your cables in the first place.

I am however curious what level and price of stereo and/or home-theater & stereo components you are running, what car, truck and/or motorcycle/sports bike that you you own versus the basic options available (remember a car’s a car after all, don’t need one of those moderately expensive to expensive cars or cars with better options after all(!)), if you like watches or boats, etc...what brand and model you pick, etc...to see if you practice what you preach in all aspects in your life or if you simply have a "xxxx-on for " and "won’t take the armband off" when it comes to audio, power and video cord-related topics and would go to any length to justify your point of view and browbeat the rest of us until we believe as you do.

Have a great day everyone!!!

dynaquesr4 
@ dlcockrum: I may have missed your point but I doubt seriously I missed the point. That point is that before people spend hundreds or (even) thousands of dollars on pretty cables with shiney connects, that come in felt bags and wooden boxes, that they are aware of the insideous power of the subconscious that will lead their ears to justify the money they spent on accessories that are incapable of improving audio signals. That psyco-effect is real. To deny it is sophomoric.

No one is saying there is NO SUCH THING as expectation bias or placebo effect or any other psychological phenomenon. But it's folly to believe that all listening is based on these psychological phenomena. That's why there are tests to eliminate psychological issues from the test. That's why we have AB, AB tests, and why we have often prefer long periods of evaluation - to be able to understand the real differences in sound, assuming they exist, and eliminate psychological issues. If you really believe that psychological issues always cloud your judgement in making audio decisions I reckon you have probably psyched yourself out.

Some points:

1. The link to Dr Waldrep’s test was recently posted by another member (scroll up)….I had never heard of the guy before. I had no original intent to “cite” that test except to counter dlcockrum’s slam on the good doctor's objectivity.

2. I didn’t “cite any other results to support my point…” because that is not my job. Google the issue, there are numerous, unbiased test results available online. What is hard to find is a test that supports “exotic” accessories performed by an unbiased manufacturer, retailer or owner.

3. My issue is not so much with those that fall for this wowwow magic…it is with manufacturers and retailers that get away with this scam.

4. My system is, likely by Audiogon standards, “mid-fi”  - B&W/Emotiva/Oppo. Mostly Monoprice cables. Spending more money on more expensive components would be a poor value due to diminishing returns. And purchasing “exotic” accessories would be a total waste of disposable income I can contribute to support other hobbies and interests I have.

5. Expectation bias (placebo effect): It is absolutely amazing what the brain can imagine. Once an “improvement” (new equipment/accessories) is added to a music system, one listens – this is a physical and, of course, mental process. You cannot isolate the brain from the experience for a number of reasons, and the more that is spent, the greater the expectation for improvement. The placebo effect will always be there because the listener/big-spender knows that there has been a change. Since virtually no consumer does, or has the capability to perform, an instantaneous AB test (the only kind that are really valid) on the old/new equipment, his expectation will allow him the pleasure of experiencing superior performance – even when there is none. In almost every case, once very basic requirements are met, more expensive cables, ICs and speaker wire do nothing to improve sound quality. It is science. Wowwow, voodoo magic wire is a scam.

6. On a light note, here is what one reviewer noted:  “With the help of these cables, I can now experience music the way it's meant to be heard. I find that plugging them directly into my ears helps transmit the cleanest, most pure sound. Make sure you clean your ears out though (with liquefied dark matter, of course), because quality will suffer if your ear-holes aren't sparkly clean.”