Hi Uberwaltz,
I deleted my last post because after Geoff's was deleted (I suspect by himself) mine was no longer relevant.
Best regards,
-- Al
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Re Goertz speaker cables, their combination of ultra low inductance and ultra high capacitance, together with the Zobel networks they often have to be used with to prevent potentially destructive amplifier oscillations that may otherwise result from the ultra high capacitance, will certainly make a difference compared to most other speaker cables. Whether that difference will be for the better or for the worse, though, will depend on various characteristics of the particular amplifier that is being used, such as how much feedback it uses, its output impedance, and its bandwidth, and also on the impedance characteristics of the particular speaker, especially the speaker’s impedance at high frequencies. Cable inductance becomes most significant at high frequencies since the impedance presented by an inductance is directly proportional to frequency.
Regards,
-- Al
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Are you saying Unicorns don't actually exist? That's a real bummer because I was think about buying one...... :~)
I read that there's one who plays for the New York Knicks. Regards, -- Al :-) |
Al,
yes I’ve heard the arguments against silver.
To be sure it's clear, my previous post was not making or implying an argument against silver. It was simply saying that the fact that silver has a slightly higher conductivity/lower resistivity than copper, which is often cited as an argument in favor of silver, is very unlikely to be the reason for whatever sonic differences may occur between a silver cable and a copper cable. Regards, -- Al |
213runnin 1-23-1017
... did you know that silver conducts electricity significantly better than
copper? Superior conductivity is only one of its benefits. Why don’t you
google this, you’d be surprised at the other main benefit.
The fact that silver has a lower resistivity/higher conductivity than copper is often mentioned in audiophile discussions. But to provide some perspective: For a given length and gauge, the resistance of silver is in the vicinity of about 6 to 8% lower than the resistance of copper. However, simply making the copper conductor one gauge size larger will reduce its resistance by about 20%. Also, making the copper conductor more than 8% shorter than the silver conductor would result in the copper conductor having less resistance than the silver conductor, even if both conductors are the same gauge. Finally, in the case of line-level analog interconnects resistance is almost always insignificant anyway, in a home audio system, because it is a completely miniscule fraction of the load impedance. So if a silver cable sounds better in a given application than a copper cable, the slightly higher conductivity/lower resistivity of silver compared to copper is very unlikely to be the reason. Regards, -- Al |
Earlier this year there was a very lengthy thread here entitled "Why do people feel the need to buy expensive cable." I posted the following in that thread, which I think is sufficiently relevant to be worth repeating here in its entirety. To
put it all succinctly, my opinion is that as with most things in life
the truth lies somewhere in the middle ground between extremist points
of view. Almarg 3-15-2016 3:30pm EDT
1)Wires sound different, to a greater or lesser degree depending not
only on the wire but on the technical characteristics of what they are
connecting, their lengths, the AC voltage and noise characteristics at
the particular location in the case of power cords (at least), the
system, the room, the recording, and the listener.
2)For many
reasons, including synergy with the aforementioned variables, the
correlation between cable price and cable performance is significantly
less than 1.0 (i.e., significantly less than perfect).
3)Based in
part on a substantial body of anecdotal evidence that has accumulated
over the years, the correlation between cable price and cable
performance is significantly greater than 0.0 (i.e., significantly
greater than none).
4)It seems evident that some cables are
overpriced, one reason among several being that their prices are
determined in part based on what the market will bear. And it seems
evident that SOME segment of the market assumes a higher degree of
correlation between cable price and cable performance than is actually
the case, and that segment of the market will therefore pay higher
prices to achieve results that may (with sufficient experimentation) be
achievable at lower prices in their particular cases.
5)Additional
reasons that cables may in many cases be overpriced relative to the
benefit they are likely to provide (I’m quoting from myself in the
following thread from a couple of years ago; and pardon the redundancy
with some of the points mentioned above):
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/small-cable-companies-making-preposterous-claims
(a)As seems to be generally agreed by most audiophiles, cable performance is highly system dependent.
(b)From
a technical standpoint, it can be expected that cable performance will
vary significantly depending on the technical characteristics of the
components that are being connected, such as impedances. Even to the
point of a comparison between two cables yielding exactly opposite
results depending on what they are connecting. In past threads, such as this one,
I have cited examples of situations in which exactly that can be
expected to occur. [See especially both of the paragraphs in my post in
that thread dated 12-15-2012 which begin with "one interesting
example"].
(c)It seems to be generally agreed by most audiophiles
that cable performance cannot be either fully explained or fully
predicted based on generally recognized science. It follows from that,
however, that the cable designers have no way to accurately predict the
point of demarcation between optimization of a given cable parameter or
design characteristic and what may be overkill of that parameter or
design characteristic, which will accomplish nothing in most or all
applications. Therefore it can be expected that what is likely to be a
significant driver of the cost of many very expensive cables is overkill
of some or all of their design parameters and characteristics, which
will accomplish nothing in most or all applications.
6)It
can be expected that if SOME audiophiles whose cable experience has
focused disproportionately on the higher part of the price spectrum were
to give equal opportunity to a variety of cables at lower price points,
and experiment with such cables as extensively as they do with higher
priced cables, there is a significant chance that they may be able to
achieve performance comparable to what they have achieved at those
higher price points at significantly lower price points. A substantial
body of anecdotal evidence that has been reported here and elsewhere
supports that conclusion, for example the threads about vintage Western
Electric wires.
7)It can be expected that if SOME audiophiles
whose cable experience has focused disproportionately or entirely on the
lower part of the price spectrum were to focus on the higher part of
the price spectrum they might in some cases, depending in part on their
equipment, be surprised at how good the results are. A substantial body
of anecdotal evidence that has been reported here and elsewhere supports
that conclusion
8)Some audiophiles care more than others about
achieving the last 5 or 10 or 20% of the performance their components
are capable of. Some are satisfied with 80% and just want to listen to
music. Both approaches are equally valid.
9)Assertions that wire is just wire are erroneous, and that belief should not be promulgated.
10)Assertions
that more expensive necessarily = better are also erroneous, and that
belief should not be promulgated, by implication or otherwise.
11)Just
as not all audible differences are measurable, not all measurable
differences are audible. I say that in connection with measurable
differences that are presented in some marketing literature.
12)An
assertion that spending more on cables rather than less increases the
**probability** of achieving optimal results is arguably correct, but
pronouncements to that effect are not gospel. And opinions to the
contrary, if presented in a respectful manner, can and should be
discussed in a respectful manner. Regards, -- Al
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Regarding the possibility that audio components can be designed to be insensitive to cable differences, in the case of line-level analog interconnects Atmasphere has described the design criteria which would accomplish that. And he has offered what I consider to be compelling proof of his contention. See the first of his posts dated 3-22-2013 in this thread. Also see my follow-up question dated 3-27-2013, and his response thereto. Unfortunately, though, it seems that for whatever reasons the designs of the majority of high end audio components do not meet one or more of those criteria. And my impression is that it is more common for pro audio equipment to do so, presumably in many cases as a consequence of the need for that equipment to be able to drive long cables. And regarding sensitivity to speaker cable differences, as Ralph (Atmasphere) has said in a number of past threads that will be minimized, at least, if the speakers have high impedance and if the cable length is kept short (as would be facilitated by the use of monoblock amplifiers). Regards, -- Al
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