jetter,
very interesting!
Geoff, et al,
Open Baffle for the win! Money goes to better drivers and XO
very interesting!
Geoff, et al,
Open Baffle for the win! Money goes to better drivers and XO
Who's Gone Topless?
The idea of this goes back decades. Amps and preamps (for the most part) are designed on chassis free breadboards, then voiced, THEN are packaged inside a chassis, which can be the weakest link to hearing what the designer intended. In most cases the chassis sidewalls and bottom are essential, but the top?
First off, beware that doing so will likely affect your mfg warranty, but, if you live in a pet-free, child-free home, then the benefits can more than offset concerns about something getting in that could harm the components. Case in point my Ric Schultz Class D EVS 1200, dual mono IcePower 120as2 modules. HOWEVER, unlike others using the same or similar modules, Ric then sprinkles many decades of modifying pixie dust all around them which are mounted inside an understated (sans bling) Italian sourced chassis.
When I ordered mine it was mandatory to purchase 2 Cubes ($200) which are to be butted up against each board, requiring the owner to remove the top. After doing so, I was anxious to put it in my rack so I could properly isolate it from bad vibes, when I should have listened with and without the Cubes and top.
Ric is also a proponent of weighing down components, but due to the unnecessarily large chassis, it barely fit in my rack, but I had a 5 pound divers belt lead weight that I squeezed in. Now, because RIc chose to put the mute toggles on the back I placed the amp on the first shelf from the rack's top (but out of sight out of mind: I never mute it when done listening), upon which was my CD player/Transport, which I raised up to provide ~ 2" of air space above the top of the 1200 and the bottom shelf of the player. Even though the rack is open on all sides with plenty of air space all around the rack, the amp ran warm
Fast Forward to yesterday. I was listening to Leonard Cohen Essential songs, mostly instrumentally sparse. I removed the weight; and found the music much more open sounding. Encouraged, I FINALLY removed the top. Honestly, I was not prepared for how HUGE doing so could be. It was like the music went from a confined space to an open air 3 dimensional venue. This is so amazing that I am going to get a handle on it via different music before removing the Cubes. Oh, and the amp is now cool as can be.
So, if interested, stay tuned
First off, beware that doing so will likely affect your mfg warranty, but, if you live in a pet-free, child-free home, then the benefits can more than offset concerns about something getting in that could harm the components. Case in point my Ric Schultz Class D EVS 1200, dual mono IcePower 120as2 modules. HOWEVER, unlike others using the same or similar modules, Ric then sprinkles many decades of modifying pixie dust all around them which are mounted inside an understated (sans bling) Italian sourced chassis.
When I ordered mine it was mandatory to purchase 2 Cubes ($200) which are to be butted up against each board, requiring the owner to remove the top. After doing so, I was anxious to put it in my rack so I could properly isolate it from bad vibes, when I should have listened with and without the Cubes and top.
Ric is also a proponent of weighing down components, but due to the unnecessarily large chassis, it barely fit in my rack, but I had a 5 pound divers belt lead weight that I squeezed in. Now, because RIc chose to put the mute toggles on the back I placed the amp on the first shelf from the rack's top (but out of sight out of mind: I never mute it when done listening), upon which was my CD player/Transport, which I raised up to provide ~ 2" of air space above the top of the 1200 and the bottom shelf of the player. Even though the rack is open on all sides with plenty of air space all around the rack, the amp ran warm
Fast Forward to yesterday. I was listening to Leonard Cohen Essential songs, mostly instrumentally sparse. I removed the weight; and found the music much more open sounding. Encouraged, I FINALLY removed the top. Honestly, I was not prepared for how HUGE doing so could be. It was like the music went from a confined space to an open air 3 dimensional venue. This is so amazing that I am going to get a handle on it via different music before removing the Cubes. Oh, and the amp is now cool as can be.
So, if interested, stay tuned
143 responses Add your response
@geoffkait, No, wrong again. Speaker dependent. My Focus speakers were rewired by the prior owner. For a couple years, I cringed when I heard a blast of horns. Too bright sounding. About 20 years ago, my friend had me remove the drivers. There was only a handful of damping filler inside the four midrange drivers. We took an entire dacron/polyester pillow and (he is an electronics maven and made speakers) adjusted the amound, folding and placement of the pillows worth into the four chambers, careful in giving space around the drivers. Voila! No more cringing horns, bright sounding speakers. They were cured. So, no, filling the chambers with the CORRECT amount of damping filler is correct, not just a 100% superior with no "stuffing., or just a handful." Maybe for some speakers designed that way but not for most. |
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And speaking of speakers almost all (rpt all) speakers have way too much stuffing inside. It’s like monkey see monkey do 🐒 with these guys. They sound better without any stuffing. But if that little voice in your head says you must use something, use a grapefruit size ball of pure lamb’s wool, hollow fiber. |
I’ve gone bottomless, sort of. I have large two and a half ways made in Denmark by this company (not as nice as the ones in the picture on the website). http://www.avance.com.cn/index.html?langid=en. While moving them a few days ago I took the two plastic port inserts out of each speaker (the glue had dried out anyway). I’m a little at a loss for words for how much nicer they sound without the plastic ports inserted. |
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The sides and bottom are one piece, luckily. I am using Stillpoints UltraSS for isolation and vibration control. They work. I tried nearly a dozen other products but they either were too dark and slow or too bright and thin. Stillpoints UltraSS were just right. The top metal cover was the big problem. Asking "were they magic" is rather immature. |
I replaced the solid but thin metal top cover of my preamp and phono pre as I assume the vibration and metal obfuscated the sound. I replaced them with a plexiglass cover, secured the same way and with air holes for temperature relief. I did not find that the plexiglass cover interferred with the sound. My amps were designed with mounted transformers, giant electrolytic storage caps and tubes on an open chassis so no problem there. My other system, I remove the Dyanco ST70 cover when in use, also better than when secured to the chassis. My DAC has a anti-vibration, 3/4" solid billet (one piece) aluminum chassis which only opens at the rear. I'm not messing with that unit. |
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I neglected to add Last night I listened to the SACD version of Blood Sweat and Tears, originally recorded 1968, but this is a Legacy DSD remaster 2000 This is one of the discs I always spin after making a significant change. Never ever ever has it sounded so open and spacious as it did last night hth |
Harry ...Tom here in Louisville..part of the way back machine. Just thinking of you yesterday wondering if you might have an extra phono preamp laying around in your collection and how to reach you. Wow!! Looking at a Citation 17s and rebuild and just use the phono portion feeding my high level input. Preamp pre Beatrice Foods. Tom |
Unhappily the amount of dust present in this Saudi Arabian environment inside our houses is just so high that haptic micron filters makes no difference whatsoever. Consequently we cannot afford to take off covers. I’m actually using muslin cloth to cover the equipment components. And dusting every week with damp cloth. Dusters don’t work. |
middlemass: South Florida heat? Do you not keep your house at a consistent temperature? Do your neighbors mind having your windows open when blasting away the music? I would certainly go topless for tubes. You should have seen the ventilation holes that surrounded family's movie theater two and a half foot tall tube amp, GE, I believe? |
The three amps in my system are not topless, but they are separated by two inch spacers, and are in a different room from the speakers. Since they do not run hot, barely even warm at 400 watts per channel with two ohm loads, I wonder why so many systems run hot. Also, can sunlight add a bit of openness. Is an incandescent, halogen, mercury, LED, or fluorescent better? Should we use a newer digital ballast, or an old school dinosaur with the starter cap? Should my bass amp have the same light source as the amps for the tweets and mids? Oh yeah. LED's are digital Scratch them. How about old school for tubes? Maybe candles, a gas fireplace, or even a Coleman lantern? Do I use different light sources on my $500 power cord? |
@glupson I did not find an exact 14 x 17, so I settled for a 20 x 20. I simply place it on top of my rack, which leaves a small amount of air space, but this filter is a micro for preventing dust from passing, but, it does keep most off the heat in, so I am only using it when done playing, I mute the modules and put the filter on top. I plan to get to a hardware store to see whether they have fiberglass filters which are more porous, and so will let more heat escape so I don't have to mute when done playing +1 lwal22 Thanks. The naysayers don't bother me. I am confident that I know what Im hearing- good or bad, but in this case exceptional. The best part is it costs NOTHING to try. Oh and dark chocolate takes it to another level of satisfaction ;) |
Yesterday afternoon I took the cover off my 105 Nothing like the crazy opening up and improved SQ that removing the lid and Cubes did BUT micro-details are now evident. Examples; when a snare is being brushed, and the handle is used to gently tap the rim and skin, I actually heard the skin vibrate!, or when a singer starts to sing in a low voice, the first syllable is more easy heard and understood, and more separation of the instruments/singers As always YMMV hth |
Perhaps verification misses the simple and to me, most salient point. Music and any other sound is perceived. Not measured, verified or quantified when actually intended as an experience, rather than an exercise. So... if the OP perceives a huge improvement, and shares why he thinks he achieved it, there is no argument. None. It is up to us to decide if we’d like to test, for our own enjoyment, his path to that change in perception. Either you like it better or not. The validity of the OP’s opinion as to why, and how much change there has been, is not anyone else’s place to confront. I like to enjoy a bit of Cannabis chocolate with my evenings playlist. Expands the soundstage. Prove me wrong. ‘Listen to your music, not your system’ was the best advice I’ve received on Audiogon, to this day. |
tweak1, @glupson4 what was your experience placing a ac filter in place of the metal top plate?I have no experience with that. I thought your reference to filter was to use it what it was designed for, in an air conditioning system. However, now when I have general idea about it, how do you install it without whatever you need for instalation potentially affecting the sound? Some wood contraption? Plastic? Suspended from the ceiling with silk ropes? Why only the top plate? |
@glupson4 what was your experience placing a ac filter in place of the metal top plate? To the person who mentioned that chassis are made/built specifically for an amp, this is not one of those. While it was ordered from Italy, it is not machined from billet to snugly fit the parts I got a 3M filter but it doesn’t pass the heat as much as I would like and after being on for awhile, it smelled from a reaction to the heat. I need to try a plain fiberglass filter, which I know has considerably more air space. Worst case I only put the filter on at night Back to what Im hearing: one of my torture cds is Jennifer Nettles Playing With Fire. Some of the cuts are downright brutal, to listen to, that is until last night. Though the terrible cuts still sounded bad, her voice and the instruments did a much better job of separating, which allows subtle ques to be easily heard. So far, every disc Ive played has brought me much closer to the actual recording event. For those who are motivated, feel free to add your comments, pro or con Geoff, As you know I have New Dark Matter in my Oppo tray and it sits on your springs, but if you know that removing its top cover will release a bunch of nasty stuff scattering around inside, I will do that today. Emailing me would be faster, but you could reply in both places so others might follow suit |
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"But that’s been about it, if for no other reason my place seems to attract a lot of dust, pollin,"You lose nice machined cover relatively distanced from the parts and gain nice natural cover fully encapsulating every crease and curve of the parts. If talking about influence of covers on sound, that should account for something. At the same time, some post earlier suggested air conditioning filter to make it all virtually dust-free. Which, in my experience, is a stretch bit too long. If I had tube equipment, I would follow jetter's path, but for exactly the same reasons he took it. And would probably get annoyed by dust after a while. |
Jetter I have owned PS Audio (M700s and GCC 250, which I still use in my TV system), W4S both stereo and MC 250/500, Emerald Physics monos, Audio Alchemy DPA-1- all class D. I never thought to go topless with them NONE of them generated anywhere near this level of heat I don't have the answer as to why, but pretty sure removing the top helped immeasurably, not only to the life of the modules and related parts, but most certainly to vastly improved sound YMMV |
It’s unfortunate that the the OP intro (in this instance ME) can’t be edited. I had several edits that would have helped, but NOoooooooooooo Anyway, a correction: the top has SOME slats (1+" ) across the back, clearly not enough, but even if there was 2,3 or more times the amount doesn’t mean that would produce the benefits removing the top did Last night I listened to James Taylor Gorilla album/CD. I even owned the album way back when. It’s one of my fav songs, meaning Ive listened to it literally hundreds of times. The whole album sounded new to me last night. This morning I removed the Cubes without any loss of musicality and replayed a few cuts, including Gorilla. No negative result to my ears, and quite possibly another lifting of the veil hth |
glupson....sorry for the late reply.... The example was circuit breaker panels in 100+ ambient summer temps outdoors, being pushed beyond their amperage ratings....the fans simply bought some time.... But the same is true for amps....the 1st 'US Festival' in CA years ago had them going thru amps like popcorn in similar temps.... This directly relates as to why some 'gamers' who 'overclock' their CPU's will resort to liquid cooling in their 'puters'. Overclocking is like running nitromethane in your Toyota. if you don't 'prep' for it, you Will break your Toy. ;) I run fans because I know that even 'mild excess' can have a consequence. Hey y'all.... take the covers off...it's your stuff....*shrug* Out of warranty, I hope.... It only works for Amps...heat is negligible for anything else..... You don't think they test their wares with covers on? |
