Just an honest question, no sarcastic or frustration intended.
Is the Technics 100c better than the Acutex 320/315 and Empire 400D3?
Had the chance to get the Technics 100c as mentioned but already have Acutex and Empire. After looking for a while it was hard to pass on Technics,and have been kicking myself since then. If it is in a league of its own then I must have one,right?
Thanks, Danny
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Dear Acman3: I assume you are talking on the P100CMK4.
You are " touching " the top of cartridge quality performance ladder where it is not only important the source/cartridge quality but how the source is mated on the system. All the cartridges you name it are very close in between, if you owned only one of them and you been unaware of the others existence you could " swer " that the one you own is the " best ever made ".
I really like the Acutex and the Empire a lot but IMHO there is a " hint " on the P100CMK4 ( along the AKG 100 and other cartridge that I'm testing now. ) that seems to me is a " half " step further on the overall quality performance.
If I was you and have a P100CMK4 opportunity I can tell you that I buy it with out " think ".
Of course is your call but Danny: do you want to let pass and never knows how good is it?, if you don't like it always can put on sale again. You don't have nothing to lose.
regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Headshells have been discussed in the past but don't recall any mention of hardware.
Wondering preferances of types of screws and if any attention is made to how tight they are.
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Hi, one question: is the mass of the Ortofon m20 FL super only 5 grams?, thanks in advance |
Dear Halcro: Even that you can't go higher than 60K you should " be there " through changes on phono stage capacitance. It makes a difference and especially when you are talking of " dull " performance.
The other side could be higher VTA/SRA and cartridge breack time but capacitance as I told you makes a difference.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Headsnappin: Yours AT and Empire are top performers better IMHO than the 881 and different from your Grado ( that's fine cartridge. ). From the Signet I know own or owned only the TK10MLMK2/3 is at that Empire level.
If you can try to " play " with different capacitance values: it makes a difference and worth to test it.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Hxt1: As good could be your Denon IMHO these ones outperform it:
http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LG&Product_Code=NAGAOKAMP050&Category_Code=NAGAOKACART
http://cgi.ebay.com/Nagatron-9600E-Induced-Magnet-Cartridge-NOS-/280595124062?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4154c5cf5e#ht_1386wt_1139
Regrads and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Timeltel: Things are that after I hook up my system in an electrical power direct connection fashion many ( almost everything ) things change for the better and what I'm hearing against what I heard before my today system status is almost day and night: just incredible.
So both Grace improves its quality performance and now are nearer in between and not only because my " new " system performance but because I'm now making capacitance changes that are critical and that in the past I couldn't noted like today.
So, not only the Grace sounds very good but other cartridges too. I tested the Shure M140HE, Grado The Tribute, Technics P100CMK4, AKG P100LE, AT 20SS, At ML180 OCC and right now the Nagatron 9600 ( but I need to try again the Empire, Azden, Acutex, even the Ortofon's. ) and: wonder what?, all of them IMHO deserve a review but I can't do it so I will redefine my cartridge quality performance ranking level before more reviews.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Travbrow: I agree with you on your Signet TK10MLMK3, a glorious performer and more near to the Technics than to the Empire other Audiothecnic'as or the Acutex.
I will try it with my " new "/up-graded system.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Travbrow: I agree that Allaerts could make a good job on rettiping but last time I send to him my Allaerts MC 2 Gold the cartridge return after 8 months.
Van denHul makes a great job with any cartridge and Technics is no exeption. I'm not only the one where VDH put his hands on the 100CMK4, Dgob could confirm the VDH great job and you know what: he made it in less than a month.
Regards and enjoy the music, raul. |
Dear Lewm: You don't need to apologize on that subject, I think I know you well and I know that those were not your intention(attitude: just as Nandric posted.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Nandric: If the 101C was better than the MK4 then you can be sure that I own it. As some of you I own what for me are the best Technics performers ever: the mentioned P100CMK4 and the 205MK4, period.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Ecir38: Yes, IMHO the screw build material could makes a difference but you need a high resolution audio system to be aware of it.
Yes too, how tight are those screws holding the cartridge makes a difference for the worst, let me explain:
what do you want? hear what is on the recording or what is in the recording with added distortions?
we al know that even in the best/near perfect audio system on system playback the system itself add different kind of distortions/colorations/whatever you want to name it.
In the cartridge/headshell link happen that too: I always try ( with all the tonearms I own or owned but my own tonearm design. ) to have the cartridge/headshell screws as tight as it could trying with this that the " intimate " cartridge/headshell union can't add distortions/resonances because a loose screws. When we set the screws at different tight levels the resonance cartridge/headshell frequency/tone changes. IMHO as thightest as more neutral, I don't like to compensate in this cartridge/headshell connection for system " failures/errors/distortions " elsewhere.
IMHO if any one of you like more what you are hearing through loosing screws I think that you are only compensating and adding distortions to other system distortions.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Jorsan: Yes, it is 5grs. Very good cartridge along its brother the 20E Super ( same weight. )
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear friends: Time for Nagatron. I buy my Nagatron sample from this same seller in NOS status.
This was the top of the line and the very first time I saw on the Net. I'm testing right now and all I can say is: just buy it :
http://cgi.ebay.com/Nagatron-9600E-Induced-Magnet-Cartridge-NOS-/280595124062?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4154c5cf5e#ht_1386wt_1139
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Kravi4k: Both B&O cartridges are on the low cartridge line. The ones to looking for are the MMC1, MMC2 or MM20CL.
Those Technics I never heard it but wait for better Technics opportunities on other top models.
The Nagaoka 500 and the 50 are more alike than different on quality performance level and the MP-50 has lower price.
The Nagatron that I name it here in my last post is very good cartridge too.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Thanks much, Raul. I'll have to listen some more and fine tune adjustments. |
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Regards, Raul: Thanks for taking the time to respond. I'd recently revisited my Grace F9-E and the Shure 140HE, two cartridges I have trouble in assesing, largely because I listen to them so infrequently. Although the paperwork that came with the Grace is largely in Japaneese, I can determine Shingawa Musens' intentions were for 300pF cap., 100k Ohm res. & 1.2gm VTF.
Due to a very difficult and, after four weeks of trying, unsuccesful attempt at communication with StereoNeedles I've come to the conclusion they have no intention of accepting return of their faulty AT25e stylus. I will keep my thoughts to myself concerning their business practices but you can draw your own conclusions as to their commitment to customer support. Ordered Sept. 18th, three months of distortion and frustration. The positive outcome is the locating of another less costly source and I'm anticipating the arrival of the correct stylus for my Signet TK9LCa and a TK10ML MK3 stylus to upgrade the AT22 cartridge. Your and Travbrows' positive comments regarding the TK10ML are encouraging. Should anyone need styli for the AT22, 23, 24, 25 or Signet TK9LCa and TK10ML, NeedleDepot offers all of these at a (relatively) reasonable price.
Currently, two days into running-in a TK7e cartridge with an AT180 Shibata stylus, 2.7mV output. Extension and definition are good, tonal balance has not yet settled. This makes it difficult to refrain from allowing the Signet TK3ea/140LC & TK5ea/155LC hybrids to monopolize the tonearm. Except for the MR series, I've now a representative cartridge for each of Signet's American market classes and other than the entry level TK1, with either the OEM or comperable AT styli they're all commendable. Music is good.
Peace, |
Hi Temeltel
That is no good about the AT25 stylus. At least you found a cheaper alternative.
Mine finally arrived and its playing sweet music on my Exclusive P3. nice improvement over the original stylus |
Timeltel, which stylus is for the TK10ML? Are there other translations for the others you mentioned? Thanks in advance. |
Dear Timeltel/Headsnappin/friends: Be carefully about which stylus replacement that Neddledpot carry are really original.
I know very well this stylus source and I don't posted on it because more than a " tool/help " could make a little " harm ", let me explain it:
I came there for the first time because Siniy123 wanted to buy an ATN 170ML OCC and he email me asking for my opinion and after that he decided to buy it and that time the stylus replacement was a real Original one.
Then I wanted ( latter on. ) to buy a replacement for my ADC TRX cartridge and through the picture in its site everything told me that the stylus was an original but I wanted to be sure so I asked to Neddledepot and after three different answers they can't tell me for sure if was original. Pass the time other person ask me about Neddle depot for other replacement and same history.
Now, if you see the picture on the AT 24/25 you can look that is the same one that for the Signet TK9La, this can't be because both stylus replacement for the Signet and the Audio Technica must be different. Other problem is that in the Original AT 24/25 you can read in the aluminum stylus plate: 24, here at Neddledepot this does not exist.
Yes, I know that in their site we can read: org., but IMHO certainly are not Original: at least the 24 and the Signet.
Gentlemans, do you think that by " free " at random comes a stylus replacemnt source with Original models at half or third price lower that the other stylus replacement sources?, no way IMHO.
If I was any of you first ask about and second ask for a return warranty if happen is not original.
Anyway, your call I only say: be extremely carefully about.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Regards, DU. Another positive report on the AT/Signet siblings. Construction of the class is hand wound meticulous, Signet estimated twenty minutes per coil. Good to hear you're enjoying yours. I'm especially pleased to find the LC stylus for my wounded TK9LCa cart. The last one I'd located had gone just the day before to a "collector, he must have been" who had purchased one or two each of many of their high-end styli. Anyone want to take credit for (IMHO) a heads-up move?
I'm appreciating the particular manner in which various LC styli engage the groove walls. Current rotation is three LC, one Shibata and the Acutex 315-320STR triradial Shibata. The AT155LC/Signet TK5 is particularly interesting. Convincing output, depth and detail, it seems to capture the best of both lines.
Peace, |
Here the pictures:
http://www.needledepot.com/stereo_needle/SIGNET/TKN9LCAORIGINE/6662.51.html
http://www.needledepot.com/stereo_needle/AUDIOTECHNICA/ATN2425ORI/5188.8.html
Raul. |
Dear friends: I own both Original cartridges AT24/Signet TK10MLII/III.
The Signet Original stylus comes with two screws ( different size. ) on the aluminum plate and the 24/25 only one and the second forward hole for the tiny screw ( that comes in the Signet. ) does not exist in the 24 only the hole cover up with some kind of black material.
Raul. |
Regards, Headsnappin: Relative to the concerns Raul expresses, look under the AT or Signet page.
Raul: Yours is the first confirmation of specific numbering, thank you for your identification as otherwise the vendors' description is the criteria for selection. I can state with certianty the Signet TK9Ea cantilever mount is red. The few others I've seen differ only in the color of paint used to pot the screw that fixes the cantilever stub to the mount, this was white for the ATN22 and clear lacquer for the ATN25 from SN, mauve for the TK9Ea. AT styli grips are frequently color coded for variations within a category. Perhaps?
To all: apologies for certian comments in a previous post. Others report good service from a never-to-be-mentioned-again-by-me vendor, this includes follow-up for delivery confirmation. Personal opinion of events exclusive to individual experience should be regarded as such, and, you know what they say about opinion: There's one born every minute. No, wait a minute, that wasn't it---.
Peace, |
Hi Raul,Timeltel
To add more confusion,my Original ATN24/25 stylus which came packed in a Audio-Technica box containig a plastic container(clear on top white on sides)also marked Audio-Technica,so I assume this has to be an original,I think.But,my stylus is silver and does not have a number 24 or 25 on the stylus body.
Also now I am confused about the "supposedly" TK10MLIII stylus I bought from Bluz Brothers.The exact same looking black body stylus with the number 23 marked on it is being sold as the AT23 replacement(makes sense)stylus at needledepot,at 120.00 vs $297.00 at Bluz Brothers.Did Bluz Brothers rip me off?It is sorta funny because this would mean I like the lower model AT23 better than the AT25,and never heard the 10MLIII.
Both my stytli have one mounting screw and one tiny adjustment screw.
Raul what colour is your original TK10ML stylus and does it have any number marked on it?
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Dear Travbrow: Yes, the AT came marked Audio technica and is in the stylus aluminum plate where the 24 is marked. Both the 24/25 are exactly the same elipthical stylus. I owned the 25 but I can't remember if was graved the 25 on the stylus plate. Btw, Timeltel and Downunder: your AT 24/25 stylus came with the 24 or 25 engraved?, thank you.
The Signet MLII and MLIII stylus came in aluminum color ( plate ) and the difference is a refinement on the MLIII over the MLII line contact stylus shape.
Yes, IMHO unfortunatelly that 23 is not the MLIII but the ATN23 for the AT23.
Not all stylus owners are really honest or knows the importance that has for each one of us the word: Original. As I posted we have to be extremely carefully not only with Needle Depot but with any other stylus replacement source. Blue Broz/Adelcom is not a trusty one I posted in this thread about.
My advise for any one of us is that if we have any " tiny " doubt it will be a " healthy " way to ask in this thread before buy it, here are people that could help and give their advice on that regard.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Thanks for the info Raul. |
Regards, Raul: The usually accurate pickupnaald.nl site describes the TK9e as red, the TK9LC as gold and replacement styli for both the AT22 and 24 as silver, same description and price but with different item numbers. Three sites describe the all black "23" numbered block as three different styli, including as the TK10ML-111. Downunder, like a left handed red headed stepchild you're on your own. None of them specify it for the AT23.
A properly identified stylus is starting to look like a debatable situation and after three months in the chase I'll be pleased to have ANY good stylus so I can get about enjoying the TK9 (hopefully) LCa cartridge in it's intended configuration. My request from N. Depot should arrive any day and I'll report any variations but louped at 10x stylus identification won't be definitive. Original packaging would be helpfull. Time to give it a rest until then and hope for "the luck of the draw".
Travbrow/Raul: just caught your posts, the "ATN25" is, other than the clear lacquer potting, unmarked. Trav., guess it's a good thing you like the stylus you recieved, whatever it is.
Raul, thanks again for your experienced input. A thing of note is that there have been no comments critical of these cartridges, however mysterious the profile of the diamond.
Peace, |
RE AT24/25 stylus.
It came in an official AT24/25 box. I did not look at the actual stylus to see any specific markings, however the potted hole in front of the screw is white compared with black on my original AT25. Then again, I bought it s/h so not sure if black was the original colour.
I will have a look when I am home
cheers |
Dear Timeltel: I'm a customer ( three different times. ) from that Netherlands stylus source, last one for an Excel stylus that I'm waiting for its arrival.
I aked them for the AT 24 subject and today told me that there is an engraved 24 number. Audio Technica IMHO an experiences with is a " consistent " builder, at least with its top of the line cartridges, so I don't think that the no-engraved 24 number is a different batch of the same Original stylus. Could be?, well I think only Audio Technica could give us a precise answer.
Anyway, in my case I think I have the " real Original stylus in both: the AT and the Signet TK10.
Btw, I know that you and other persons have a lot of fun with the " hybrids ". Through some experiences I don't do it any more, I buy an hybrid stylus replacement only by necessity: this is that the " compatible " stylus I buy it only to have a stylus set for VDH can retip and " refresh " the whole cartridge.
Some cartridge models from the same build could looks similar external but its electrical parameters not always are exactly the same. For example the ATML170 OCC is identical ( body cartridge ) to the AT ML180 OCC and both ( that I own. ) accept either cartridge stylus model but its inductance and internal resistance is different so its quality performance is different too. In the other side cartridges like the Ortofon M20 Super are truly interchangable between the E and the FL model because are identical on electrical parameters and only differ on stylus shape. My experiences on hybrids were that always sounds better the VDH work than the hybrid one. I know that VDH him self knows almost all the parameters and what the original cartridge design was intented and he refresh/retip nearest to those design and intented performance.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Hi Rsul/All,
Just to let you know that the UK representative is now saying that VdH has had a change in policy due to the increased volume of work. Apparently, they will now no longer give you a quote prior to undertaking work on your cartridge. They will simply undertake the work and then present you with a price for whatever works they undertake. This could be costly (depending on what they discover needs doing). Just a warning.
All the best |
Hi Timeltel,
Re your AT25e stylus and that never-to-be-repeated vendor, I recommend to strategically place a very small identifying mark that doesn't outwardly detract visually from the stylus in any way (in case of future ID) and simply return it to the vendor with your best wishes.
You have nothing to lose and their conscience may get the better of them. I've been lucky and found them fair.
Cheers,
Alex L |
Regards, Raul: Your points made regarding "hybrids" are well taken and under no circumstances should anyone presume to do so blithely. There are precedences, the Acutex LPM motor is compatable with a range of styli as are many AT, Shure, and in particular the ADC bodies represented by the original XLM. This cartridge supports styli ranging from the bottom end QLM-30 through the top of the class X, Z and R styli. Just as others report an improvment when "upgrading" the AT15 with a stylus designated for the AT20, other variations are compatable within the class. Both Empire and Grace offer the suggestion that styli within a specified range are interchangable. Both also offer the advisory, reflecting your as always polite and correctly cautionary statement, that although the stylus may alter the quality heard in playback, this will not improve the characteristics of the cartridge, i.e. a stylus from TOTL cartridge "A" instaled in cartridge "B" will not bring it to the performance level of cart. "A". In this you are 100% correct. Your attention to detail and stewardship in maintaining accuracy in this thread is commendable.
I would hope you understand that I do give some thought to these considerations and wish to observe that "outside the box" applications are not invariably detrimental.
Alex7333: Thank you for your concern. This stylus is not inexpensive (ouch!) and as in the United States unrequested items recieved in the mail become the property of the recipient without cause for embursment, a return authorization is henceforth appropriate. I will not address the matter again. As channel imbalance and distortion was evident when instaled in two known to be good cartridges, the stylus was removed after perhaps two hours of use and restored to its package in order to preserve its condition as recieved. I brought it out again last night and gave it close inspection under magnification and find the cause of this phenomena "in situ" to be in the suspension, resulting in one of the "V" magnets coming in contact with the well housing the coil's poles. When recieved, the stylus was loose in the package and had layed on its side for an unknown time, the cantilever was no longer accurately aligned with the long axis of the block. It is currently held in a jig with a slight overcompensation of correction for this misalignment, hopefully there is enough memory and elasticity remaining in the pivot block to restore the cantilever to within operational perameters when relaxed. Your good intent is appreciated.
Peace, |
Dear Timeltel: I'm not really questioning you or other people I just said what I made on the subject. Than's for your reply.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Regards, Raul. Appreciate your clarifying things for this perceptually challenged person, one who might appear to esteemed others to believe "purist" is something a chef reduces from tomatos. My bad.
Any future addresses should be geared to the acuity of the subject in Leon Russell's lyric; "Three legged dogs that walk the highway are slow to learn, mighty slow".
Arf!
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Dear friends: Here again de Sonus Gold Blue from the same seller and at the same price:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sonus-Gold-Blue-Audiophile-Cartridge-NEW-FREE-SHIPPING-/220705515188?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336312e6b4#ht_1227wt_1139
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
RE AT25 stylus
I have had a look at the stylus. I cannot see any markings on the stylus. I am not going to remove it from the headshell now to have a look. Superficially it looks similar to the needledepot. That being it has the white goo that is in the hole in front of the screw.
That said, I have looked at the stylus that came with the AT25 and that has no markings either. difference is that this has black in the hole.
Anyway, the stylus sounds great |
Hi, DU: Considering the quality of machining, beryllium cantilevers and nude mounted natural diamonds of superb quality, "Pfansteil generic" is not a realistic concern. Styli purchaced in bulk were frequently without individual markings and otherwise it is not unusual for merchants to discard deteriorated pasteboard boxes having the stylus' description. Now, decades later, they are identifying styli as best as they are able. Charitably phrased, there is evidence of error.
Would someone please purchace the Grace F9-R offered on the A'gon Buy page, I glanced at the description and had the thought it was the final iteration of the model. I have both the F9-E and L and hold them in such high estimation I rarely saddle them up and don't need another "drawer queen". Help me out here, I'm tempted, very tempted.
Peace, |
Timeltel, Just to tease you further, the 'final' iteration of the F-9 series was the F-14 series, which had the choice of aluminum, ruby, boron, beryllium, and sapphire cantilevers with micro-ridge styli. Then there was a 60th anniversary version released last year which had an MR stylus. |
T-bone: Not fair! I've only seen the F-14 offered once (I believe it had the blue stylus grip) and had the same reaction, drawer queen! If replacement styli were available it would be a different kettle of fish but I have an irrational reverence for certain unobtainium vintage styli. I can imagine Raul in the background now, smirking as he whispers VdH, VdH, retip, VdH.
Now, about that Anniversary edition: I searched Shinagawa Musen/Musen/Tokyo/Grace/Shinagawa-ku for two days when I first heard of it only to find they were made available only to owners of the original who had registered theirs at time of purchase and still lived, IIRC, at the same address. Guess who didn't qualify.
Peace, |
Dear T_bone: problem is that the F-14 never came to America not even on Europe. So for us the last interaction was what Timeltel point out.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Timeltel: There were at least 9 different F-14 cartridge models as 9 models on the Level II Grace line.
I never seen either on the net for sale.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Well Timeltel, You got your wish. I just went to buy the Grace F9L and it's sold. Guess I should live in the northern hemisphere? |
Some picture on AT23 (same as AT22?) AT24 (same as AT25) historic sales from Hifido: http://www.hifido.co.jp/sold/?lang=E&gcode=0303&keyword=At25&limit=10
http://www.hifido.co.jp/sold/?lang=E&gcode=0303&keyword=At24&limit=10
http://www.hifido.co.jp/sold/?lang=E&gcode=0303&keyword=At23&limit=10 |
Dear Siniy123: Thank you for the links, are self explicatory.
This confirm, at least, that in the AT23 and 24 the model number comes engraved.
Regards and enjoy the music, raul. |
I mean along the Newtherlands source information.
Raul. |
Siniy23, I did not know there was an AT22. The AT23 is kind of a 'slightly junior version' of the AT25. Bigger stylus. Have been looking for one but haven't found one. |
{quote}This confirm, at least, that in the AT23 and 24 the model number comes engraved.{quote}
Am I blind what model number comes engraved on the stylus? |