Merry Christmas and the happiest New Year yet,
One and all
As always... |
Hi Raul,
Is that the standard AKG P8E or a variant in the line? Also, do you plan a review of it?
Cheers |
Raul,
Do please let us have your impressions of the ADC 25 when you've had time.
Cheers |
Raul,
I hope to be having the chance to listen to the new Music Maker Classic on my Morch DP6 redpoint arm shortly. I'll let you know if reports are correct and it does indeed exceed the performance of the MM2 and MM3. If it does, and given my experience of using the MM3 on the Morch with the Essential 3160, well... I am very excited.
Along with the XV1s/Ikeda IT407 combination, the MM/Morch has indeed provided the most vital and realistic analogue performance I have heard anywhere. |
Dear Raul,
Have you tried the various Nagaoka cartridges and which one would you recommend as the best for matching the strengths of the Music Maker 3 and yet exceeding it in refinement?
Many thanks as alway... |
Raul,
I would just like to say thanks for the advice. I bought the Nagaoka MP-50 as recommended. I started off with it on my Morch DP6 rep point and (straight out of the box) it was something very special. The soundstage, dynamism and frequency range were something exceptional - especially the high end which was possibly the best I have ever heard. It did sound a little glassy/shrill in the high end on percussion and cymbals at this initial point and the lower-mid and low end were a bit thin.
After about 30 hours of play I moved it over to my Audiocraft AC3300 tonearm with the s-shaped armwand and a magnesium headshell. WOW: by 50 hours it was simply sublime. Regarding a natural live presentation, its imaging, speed, frequency range outperformed my Allaerts MC2 Finish gold (mc) and Ikeda IT407 combination. The price diffential - with the Nagaoka only setting me back $400 (including shipping)- makes this fact frightening. In all my experience, the only comparable performance I have had is with my (currently damaged) Dynavector XV1s on my Ikeda. When I get this fixed, I think these might form the basis to my future analogue.
It is just as close to a live performance as anything I have ever heard and I cannot recommend this cartridge too highly. Those that have seen my threads will know that I had liked the Music Maker 3 (whose designer I know and like). However, Raul is correct that this is simply not in the same league as the Nagaoka: a must hear.
Thanks |
Plinko,
I think we all share you priorities (among others). If you sort out your phonostage, you cannot go wrong with the Nagaoka. In fact you can get two distinct performance by exchanging the metal screws for the plastic ones - which you can get from any old MM cartridges that you might have. I used the ones that came with various Empire cartridges and this will increase the midrange textures and alters the tone and timing.
Personally, I prefer it set up with the metal screws as this adds dimensionality to the imaging and does something with cymbals and brass that has to be heard. This definitely compares to the live performances that I experience in some of the best sonically treated venues in the UK.
The Nagaoka MP-50 also goes really well with the Nagaoka magnesium headshell and you can frequently find these on ebay.
Happy hunting |
James,
I can only give my experience of the MP50 but I find it a better performer than many of my far, far more expensive cartridges, including my Allaerts MC2 Finish Gold. A phenomenal performer when matched with good enough gear.
Hope you enjoy as much |
Sirspeedy,
Thanks. My listening time is fulfilling if ever more obsessive. The Allaerts reminds me of a former girlfriend who needed much care and attention but gave great rewards when handled correctly. Oh fond memories! I would remind all Ikeda owners that the provided template is inaccurate and can have a detrimental effect if used without adjustments.
Raul,
You are spot on. I feel like I am hearing the Allaerts for the first time - many years after buying and sweaty hours spent unsuccessfully setting it up and playing it. I think that the tonearm set up (the effective length) is in fact critical in providing a suitable platform and ditto the overhang: at least that has seemed an inescapable conclusion following my recent experience with the Allaerts. I think that is (along with an undeniable streak of laziness) the reason why I am so bowled over by the protractor from Dr. Feikert: German ingenuity at its best. The template, strobe and protractor make tonearm and cartridge set up literally fool-proof and a quick and consistent pleasure. I will however come to another fundamental aspect of the performance that I am now enjoying from the Allaerts
Larryi/Jloveys,
What can I say? The Essential 3160 is IMO simply that: "essential" to what I am hearing. I've already tried to share my experience in threads and reviews but would add that any MM or MC cartridge (including my Allaerts) is given an unbelievable platform through the Essential. It is not a commercially driven enterprise but I believe it is SOTA when it comes to performance. Even better, it's linestage is of equivalent standard and unsurpassed in my years of listening. If your friend could audition his floating set up with the Essential 3160 I feel certain it would make sense of the high costs already spent on his system and reqard him handsomely.
In short, if I were a vinyl loving audiophile being exiled to an island that held every cartridge known to man, my two CANNOT do without accessories would be the Essential 3160 and Dr Feikert's protractor kit. Sheer magic |
Larryi,
Honestly, my only concern/hope is that we all share the joy of beautiful music performed as well as we are able to obtain. Please try the Nagaoka MP-50 MM cartridge. Granted, I am listening to it loaded at 100k but it is truly phenomenal. I also know that I use the Essential 3160 but am certain good results can be obtained with an adequate alternative. Do give it a go for a starter: it is relatively cheap and boy does it sing!? |
Jlovey,
I think that it will be difficult to find such a cartridge. The key reasons are that they have many 'different' presentations and that these will be reflected differently in different systems and in light of different listening expectations. I certainly enjoy my Nagaoka more than my MC2 Finish. Obviously, YMMV!;~) |
Raul,
I've jsut ordered an Empire 999 XE/X and an Empire 1000 ZE/X. I'll try to post my impressions once they've arrived and I've familiarized myself sufficiently to form a useful opinion.
Cheers
Dgob |
Dear Raul,
I got the Empire 999 XE/X and an Empire 1000 ZE/X. The latter is said to have been their top cartridge for that generation and I've decided to do my testing on that one. I also got an original unused (NOS) Empire stylus for the 1000 ZE/X and have just commenced auditions. Strangely, switching from my Nagaoka MP-50 to the Empire has reaped widely varying results with different mats on my Acoustic Signature Mambo.
Will speak more when I know more
Cheers
Dgob |
Axelwahl,
I have the Empire 1000 ZE/X and it is special. I think it is nearly in the same league as the Nagaoka MP50 with a completely contrasting presentation (richer or more pronounced midrange but weaker at the extremes). What arm are you using it with and what VTF? |
Axelwahl and Dean_man,
Many thanks for your responses. I've spent some time trying to find other owners of the 1000 ZE/X with limited success. I'm currently using mine on a Morch DP6 red point and do enjoy it, especially its wide and deep soundstaging and its beautiful midrange). I'd just like a little better/firmer imaging but think a different arm might be the answer to what I'm achieving. Has anyone tried various arms with the Empire and found an improved or ultimate partner? |
Headsnappin,
I use an Audiocraft AC3300 tonearm to excellent effect. It performs far better with the Nagaoka MP50 than the SME V, Ikeda IT407 (silver wired) or a Morch DP6 redpoint.
Hope this helps |
Axelwahl,
I use the Essential 3160 and it has state-of-the-art MM, MC and line stages. I can say without doubt that you can gain different benefits from different cartridges. Price is no guarantee: I sold my Allaerts MC2 Gold in prefering my Nagaoka MP50. Yet I think the Dynavector XV1s/t holds its own with any cartridge. For me, the key questions regarding cartridge selection are:
1. How good in the relevant phono and line stage through which I am hoping to hear it/them? 2. What tonearm am I going to match it with? 3. How good/compatible is the rest of the chain in the system (speakers, liustening room and electronics)? and 4. How much am I willing to spend?
With your own individual listening experiences (meaning, venues at which you have heard most live performances, types of music and sounds that you prefer, hearing capacity and more psychoacoustic factors) to the fore, these elementscan make it possible to find your own best cartridges of both the MM and MC variety.
But that is just my opinion |
Axenwahl,
No, I use the 1000 XE/Z with 100k loading and suffer the same problems. It's midrange and stage depth and width are phenomenal but its top end and bottom end are not as extended as you can get from say the Nagaoka MP50 and the same goes for its imaging, which seems confusing and average.
I actually started a thread some time ago asking for advice on setting one up but found no really useful responses. I'm sure better tonearm matching, cable selections and set up could improve things but I have exhausted my efforts for now.
I hope someone can assist and will keep an eye on the developments here around this.
Good luck |
Raul,
I think that most people who own both the Dynavector XV1 and the XV1s (including Dynavector themselves) say the latter is superior in a number of aspects.
In what ways does your perspective differ? |
Downunder,
You're spot on, I think Raul has been the single-most important influence on my system: much of which he made, modified and/or advised on. Our differences are small but our passions high and I suspect this is a good thing.
I also agree that our tastes differ slightly but that the music and our efforts to engage with it in ever-more intimate ways is what it's all about. And, finally, the differences between both cartridges is very small (mainly more solid imaging with the XV-1s) and so not really an issue for hifi civil war.
Wishing all continued joy in listening |
Raul,
I see your perspective and do agree in part. I know that overly warm and overly bright hardware have cornered the market for some time and that hifi standards have tended to drive towards these over emphasized perspectives. However, I must differ in opinion on the XV1/XV1s comparisons.
I have done my own direct long term comparisons with my XV1s and a friend's XV1 and found mine to be a more realistic and accurate tool. Yet, as I said, this depends on the venue at which one equates realism and 'live' performance norms. As we've also discussed before, the XV1s and Nagaoka MP50 are the only cartridges that I have heard that recapture the full immediacey and frequency range that I experience in my favourite and most acoustically treated listening venues: particularly Birmingham Symphonic Hall ( a much better acoustic venue than the more vaunted Royal Sypmphony or Royal Albert Halls over here). I can give an example here.
No other cartridges can replicate the live performance of Abdullah Ibrahim's 'Water from an Ancient Well' album as I have experienced this live at the Birmingham Symphonic Hall. Maybe that's to do with my room acoustics or some other factors. Those familiar with this album will appreciate the scope it gives for assessments across the acoustic bandwidth and timbre.
I think this reiterates some of your findings, particularly those that indicate that this hifi business is in fact complex and many faceted. As my dear friend says: it could all come down to 'whatever floats your boat'. |
Downunder,
I respect your perspective and decision but would not concur. Maybe it's because we have different electronics or listening expectations and experiences. However, I did sell my CJ Prem 8A's for solid state hardware and things did change for the better. Again, though, it could be down to whatever floats...
Thanks all for your thoughtful feedback |
Lewm,
In addition to my details around my NOS MP-50, I would say that set up it critical. Although it will impress straight out of the box, it takes at least 200 hours before it is burned in and needs care matching with tonearm (I get amazing results with the Audiocraft AC3300, with appropriate oil levels, ever so slightly positive VTA and 1.38 VTF) and phono cable (I use a bespoke set of xlr VH Audio silver cable with Cardas connectors). You also need to experiment with the screws and washers used to attach it to your selected headshell (I use a Nagaoka magnesium headshell to great effect) to fine tune it and avoid hum.
When it is set up and snapped into the idea position, not only do you tame the slightly bright or aggressive high end but you also gain a performance that is phenomenal. Patience really rewards here (IMO). |
Axelwahl,
Maybe its the fact that I achieve undistorted bass down to 15Hz, but the 1000 XE/Z's bass is far from controlled. Deep, yes, but definitely not controlled/life-like.
I still hold out hope that correct/ideal matching can address this but will await feedback from someone in the know. S/he must be out there somewhere:~)
Fingers crossed |
I know how difficult it is to distinguish between recorded low frequency and its cut off point (or the point where low bass starts to be confused with rumble - say 20Hz), but the post-1949 advances in recording technology do impact on sound. A few Decca recordings of Bach's fugue and cantata would be a case in point (the frequency range of the organ going down to 20Hz and its subliminal reverberations even further).
I feel the we are now at a point where all parts in our hifi chains can meet these demands (as well as address the challenges of wow and rumble) and our speakers are an important final step in this chain for our enjoyment of deep/real bass. |
I've just run-in and started testing my new Audio Technica AT20 cartridge (with a NOS ATN20SS stylus). When I get a chance, I intend to do some direct A/B testing against my reference Nagaoka MP50 but things sound very promising at present.
Thanks Raul |
Axel,
See your point. After 7 glorious days with the AT20, just started A/B testing with my joyous MP50. Things are more complex. The MP50, in the AC3300, throws me back to questioning. It's simply like a live performance time and time again. The AT20 is less immediate and I'll need a fair amount of time to assess these differences and my preferences. Both great, both different: just like venues and live performances, maybe!? |
I have now spent the last day listening to the AT20SLa when set up correctly and run-in. WOW, WOW, WOW!!!
Everything is just spot on: midrange, frequency extremes, imaging, soundstage, timbre, dynamics, PRaT. How good do I think it is?
Better than my Dynavector XV1s, former Allaerts MC2 Gold Finish and, even, my Nagaoka MP50, which will now become my spare for times of need and/or more raucous partying. It defies belief and I am really grateful to you Raul for this. Back to a little music. TTFN |
Lewm,
Although the bulk of my hifi life has involved MC's, I have auditioned/owned too many MM's to recall. However, of the MM's that I still own there is the Nagaoka MP50, Empire EDR, Music Maker III, Empire 1000 XE/Z, Audio Technica AT-ML170/OCC, Empire 900 GT, Denon DL-034, Empire Ltd 750, Empire 999 XE/X and, of course the Audio Technica AT-20 SLa. My preferences are for the AT-20 and the MP50.
The AT-20 SLa is the cartridge, the ASN-20SS is its top of the range stylus. I think that people just use the AT-20 for short. |
Lewm,
I should have written the ATN-20SS stylus and AT-20SS cartridge. My mistake. Either way, you will not be disappointed. The cartridge will go as far as your system allows it and then some. I really think it is simply phenomenal and look forward to hearing your impressions.
Happy listening |
Doktorgigi,
It's very early over here and so my mistakes abound. Anyway, I think that if you can improve on the SLa's performance (with the ATN20SS stylus in it) you will have a phenomenal system and hearing. Personally, I simply cannot imagine where or how these improvements would arise. Of course, if you can get (and you have been really, really lucky here) the SS cartridge then it would be the way to go,if only for the reason that it seperation specs are apparently better. I've also found it near impossible to find any information on them and have no literature. Another chatroom gave a contact at Audio Technica USA. However, when I contacted them they simply said that they have no information as they never sold this item. Please do let us know how it goes.
Incidentally, mine took around 50 hours to run-in fully and repays care and experimentation in set up. Yet once you find the set up that best suits, words fail |
Doktorgigi,
No offense given or taken. Honestly, if the rest of your system allows, the AT-20 is phenomenal. You know the now well-worn adage ("I heard things I've never heard on familiar records before"), well it really does apply here. The presentation is not as dramatic as some I've used (XV1s and MP50 come to mind) but everything just seems right and the detail retrieval is almost frightening. Maybe a more mature cartridge for the musical connoisseur more than the hifi enthusiast. However, as early as my familiarisation with it still is, I am greatly impressed.
Not to be too nosey but how much did you pay for it? Maybe you'd like to email me privately with these details and to discuss!?
Happy listening and do let us have your views on the performance of your AT-20 once you've got it up and running optimally. |
Just a brief update, I've just been experimenting with my Spectral Moving Coil Reference and tried it for the first time in my Ikeda IT407 silver wired tonearm with a magnesium headshell. It is providing surprisingly good music but these are early days in familiarisation and assessment.
On a more appropriate subject, I have just sent my Audio Technica AT-ML 170 OCC cartridge off to van den Hul for renovation and optimising. Excited about auditioning the results in the months ahead. I'll feed back my impressions if/when these are certain. |
AGAINST ABSOLUTES:
In recently testing my long neglected Spectra Moving Coil Reference, I've been led to contemplate some of the complexities that beset our judgements on hifi.
It seems a common temptation for audiophiles to find new characteristics in some item and therefore be impressed by these. This might reside in the human tendency to treasure the new over the familiar and can therefore result in us making loud declarations about this new item being better or the best: a tendency that I have exercised myself all too often!! Well, my recent experiences make me question our valuations and willingness to declare absolutes concerning the performance of 'certain' pieces of hifi equipment. I'll try to explain my point.
I've owned this original Spectra for 15 or so years. In that time I've played it for no more than 200 hours in total. This was largely due to what I saw as its thin midrange and exaggerated top end. Hence, it's spent much of its life on the shelf. Move forward to today and I now possess some important new tools. These include the Essential 3160 phonolinestage preamplifier, Dr. Feikert's set up protractor, a resolving sub/satellite speaker system and a different choice of tonearms and headshells. Consequence?
Set up at its nominal VTF and with a slightly negative VTA the Spectra is VERY impressive. This is all of course aided by the performance parameters allowed by the Feikert set up system, the Essential 3160 and above noted additions. Detail is very good, frequency range (top, middle, bottom) is exceptional, dynamics and PRaT are spot on. In light of my consequent reflections, I would not say it is now the best, but it is a far higher quality performer than I had thought/imagined. In fact, I used my AT-20 MM to dial in its sound when adjusting VTA on my Ikeda and the Spectra's comparitive performance surprised in several aspects!! This obviously points to a series of truisms, such as: tonearm matching is essential; headshell matching is essential; phono and linestage quality are essential; monitors and entire system matching and quality are essential; then, quality AND characteristics of the cartridge are essential for our valuations. The vast variety of component combinations obviously available here might allow us to appreciate why different things float our different boats!
I suspect this is what is being demonstrated throughout this thread, with many rediscovering MM/MI gems that had sat in storage for decades. How do I view this? Grounds for great optimism and experimentation. Tomorrow's developments just might help us all reassess today's possessions in a new light. As T.S. Eliot would have it:
"We shall not cease from exploration And the end of all our exploring Will be to arrive where we started And know that place for the first time."
:~)
|
Interesting history to the MM view
http://www.regonaudio.com/Stanton881AudioTechnicaATML70.html |
Hi Raul,
Precisely. I think REG said it well in conluding:
"Everyone is entitled to personal tastes, but truth is truth. If you want to hear something like the truth, I still say-no matter what everyone else is using-that you should buy a flat-top cartridge like the ATLMM170 and avoid all cartridges with a rising top-end. If the sound of live music is your goal, why would you want to hear sound which is not only untrue to its source but also is something you are "seldom conscious of live", as ASP [also] says?"
I concur but still share Tobes preferred balancing act. |
Siniy123,
Many thanks. I could not open the link but think it's the same one as I have seen on vinylengine. Given your thoughts on the parallels between these Glanz and the MF-100: what are your thoughts on the performance of the MF-100? Do you have a comparible Glanz experience? |
Hi All,
Someone on this thread mentioned having tried Glanz cartridges along with a range of notable others. I have just purchased the Glanz G5 and would love any feedback on this and its performance.
It's proving almost impossible to find any information about it or its G7 and G3 siblings online. The only things I've found relate to reports from recording engineers who described its lesser manifestation (the Glanz MFG-71E) as the best mm, topping the Nagaoka MP50 in their ranking. Any help/information would be truly appreciated
Many thanks |
Raul,
I think you'e spot on. Gains in a more direct circuit for signal transmission is one advantage (incidentally, I've just bought a ADC XLM-1 (NOS) with its take on the integrated headshell and am keen for its arrival) along with ease of setting it up. Sadly, the flexibility of headshells is a disadvantage. I just tell myself to trust the designers and force myself to believe that they found the best partnerships possible!!
Many new MM's on their way and something to look forward to on those approaching cold English nights.
Happy listening |
Raul @ 09.12.09,
What were the four cartridges that you found it hard to seperate from the P76 in performance qualities?
I ask for those who cannot find any or some of your favourites.
Thanks |
Siniy123,
Many thanks. This makes for a very useful basis to my ongoing research. I've started a thread that anyone with more information and (especially) experience concerning the Glanz to please feed back.
Grateful |
Siniy123,
When you note that, "In my opinion Glanz G7 is basically is Glanz MFG-71L, which is same as Astatic MF-100", the Vinyl Engine article gives quite distinct characteristics and suggests that the G series of Glanz are superior (at least as far as calibrated measurements are concerned). I'll post this again on my relevant thread but would just like to repeat my plea for any information on the Glanz G5, G7 or MFG-71E or L.
Many thanks |
Siniy123,
No, the fisture seems really integrated. Of course, you can change the stylus but the body seems rooted in the shell. As for their similarity, I suspect the differences might be as telling but I guess I wont know until I do a comparison. However, as I mentioned to Raul, my main concern right now is getting familiar with and the best out of my Glanz.
Thanks for your continued help |
Raul,
I think you're right. Numerous cartridges display similar designs but perform very distinctly. I'll look into the MF 100/200/300 series at some point but I have my hands full just trying to play the cartridges that I have and those I am currently already chasing.
I would still appreciate feedback from users who might have knowledge of set-up and performance. My Glanz came without instructions and I cannot find a retailer with any knowledge about them!
All the best |
Axelwahl,
I believe that your references to "the S1000ZE/X" is a reference to the replacement stylus for the Empire 1000 ZE/X cartridge. I think this is why you and Raul are using difference terms in referring to the cartridge.
Silly point but hopefully helpful |
Raul,
I have a few Empire 999 models. Unfortunately,some of them have no markings or stylus. I do have the VE/x versions with markings though but have not had a chance to play them yet!
No help really, I suppose! |
Timeltel,
thanks, very useful. |
Hi All,
I have read many things about some lowly MM cartridges that are placed low down the traditional pecking order and none more so than the ADC XLM-1 (the integra version, which I recently acquired as well as the full range of their cartridges [XLM I, II and III]). Well, having spent the last week comparing this to other notable cartridges, it surprised me to find just how good this cartridge is in many aspects. Well, how good?
Maybe not as good as the Glanz G5 (with which I am still familiarising myself) nor totally neutral. However, it retrieves detail with the same aplomb as the Audio Technica AT20 SLa and makes clear real colourations in the midrange performance of the AT20. What's more, it clearly outperforms the later 'ADC XLM III Improved' version on a variety of levels: namely its attack, nuance retrieval and top end resolution. I know that many ADC officianados have already suggested that the remodelling of the XLM range lost something when they went to the later and lower compliance models and I can confirm their view.
These are early days and I have a quite large list of newly acquired mm cartridges that I have not tried yet but will be testing over the coming weeks/months. Nevertheless, I would strongly recommend the original ADC XLM-1 in its integrated manifestation, as long as you get it with its own mounting template. They go for next to nothing NOS and I defy anyone not to find pleasure in the music that bursts from its tip. Oh the joys |
Lewm,
As an entrepreneur in the throws of the credit crunch over here, I can assure you that you made the correct decision.
So you had a part to play in bringing these things to an unsuspecting public. Honestly, they might not be the ultimate but they are worthy indeed. Do you recall your impressions of them (the ADC's) back in the day? I find the XLM-1 integra (not the Integra ST XLM-1) simply beguiling.
Cheers |
Lewm,
No, Audio T has gone the way of the Dodo. I suspect now that your equipment has moved on and your tastes have matured, you might find a pleasant surprise from the ADC XLM-1. If the tonearm and electronics allow for verisimilitude, the ADC will deliver on several fronts. Maybe not so much the 'big romantic sound' but greater accuracy. Taste will dictate but still worthy of a revisit me thinks.
Cheers |