OP Get it down to 2 or 3 by reading first and then listening, if you can..
Come up with a budget too, that does really help.. BASS is bass, Sub is Sub.. I would want GREAT bass response from 40hz and up, and the ability to split the bass when I add a sub (s). You can LOOSE the onboard monitor bass and put it where it is suppose to be and or CUT the lower 30-60 hz range and use them for MB only. NONE is better.. Vibration is vibration..Just fruit for thought in over all selection..
Regards |
Fair enough, I'll continue with the research and try to cut it down a bit, still if anyone has any experience with the listed or similar speakers I'm interested in what you think of them
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Are you dead set on buying new? With a 1k to 1.5k budget I think you may be able to step up a tier or 2 buying used. |
I have looked into this but I dont have 1-1.5k just for speakers. This deal/sale I can get them from is an amp + speaker bundle and saves £100s overall as well as some free good quality speaker cable and 5 year warranty. As an example the Dali Oberon 5 and Marantz PM6007 come together for something like £850, as opposed to £700 + £500 separately. I believe this is the best way to make my money go as far as it can. |
@oliverben5672, speaker tech hasn't changed much in years, excluding powered speakers. You can buy used speakers for 50-60% of MSRP and sell them a year or two later at probably no or minimal loss. That will save you far more than £100s.
Pretend we're talking ice cream. You're asking us to tell you if you will prefer chocolate, strawberry, coffee or pistachio. There's a good chance we'll get it wrong.
If you can at least describe what's most important to you in a speaker and perhaps describe any that you've heard & liked and what you liked about that experience.
e.g. "I often focus on the naturalness of vocals", "My toes tap on their own", "Punchy dynamics give me goosebumps". Any clues help. Cheers,
Spencer |
Quality sound on a budget can be surprisingly good, you just have to go about it intelligently. Start by crossing off your list all speakers less than 92dB sensitivity. Because anything much lower than that and you will find it very hard- read EXPENSIVE! - to drive. Above 92dB and just about any amplifier even as low as 20 watts will be fine. Specifically, check out the Mini-Lore. https://www.tektondesign.com/mini-lore.html Its right in your price range, high sensitivity, stupid good and direct from manufacturer super high value. The Marantz will then be fine, it is the better of the two. But it does have a DAC and those things are death to good sound. You’re on a budget and this is better than any receiver, and it does have built in phono. Just be aware and on the lookout for an integrated amp without either of those. Or with phono but no DAC. Remember, because you were smart and got high sensitivity speakers you don’t need watts but you do need quality. Your turntable is a fine source. Don’t skimp on wire. You will hear it. Put it on a heavy platform with some Nobsound springs you will be shocked how good it sounds. You’re already smart about one thing- holding off on bass for later. By far the greatest expense in speakers is trying to do it all- high dynamics, full extension, deep bass. Speakers at your level that try to do all that are forced to make compromises all over the place. Pay attention to the midrange, because if that is right it will hold your attention you won’t miss the bass, and if the treble rolls off that is less bothersome over time than if its harsh and aggressive. Which budget gear tends to be. Quality wire will go a long way to making a system that draws you in with lots of fascinating detail. This is the magic of vinyl. Your job is to protect that magic, without going broke in the process. Subs can easily be added later, and when they are it will fill in the picture so much you will understand what a waste it would have been trying to pick speakers with super deep bass. So focus on midrange and a natural detail level of sound. Other than 92dB you can forget about specs and focus on sound quality. Pay attention to how independent reviewers describe the sound. Nothing else matters. And that’s that. Good luck and happy hunting! |
Start by crossing off your list all speakers less than 92dB sensitivity.
My Mirage M3-si speakers have 83dB sensitivity and I drive them just fine with 110 watts. I like my music very loud and of course accurate. The same amp driving the Klipschorns (105.5dB) will easily reach unsafe levels. Either setup is backed up by a 1250 watt 18 inch sub crossed over at 80Hz. OP you say that "good bass is important" but I'd say good deep bass is necessary regardless of music choice. The last octave is the most important ;-) Sometimes I setup the sub with a very small pair of Mission bookshelf speakers to trick people. They are astonished that the sound is not coming from the big speakers and sometimes have to check. So I would say don't make the decision based on mains bass extension, they probably should not be trying to reproduce much under 80Hz. Given that you cannot listen to the speakers I agree with others that you should concentrate on reviews from higher end reviewers and ignore speaker specs - most of which are provided by the marketing department. |
Dali is good if you're looking for a wide dispersion speaker. You might look at their active line. |
Music wise I tend to listen to indie/rock/metal but also a bit ofeverything from across the board, good bass is important I’d go with Monitor Audio as they’re good all-around speakers but can also belt out rock when called for, and specifically I’d go with a model like the 300 or 500 with a dedicated midrange driver if possible. If you tend to like neutrality and more treble detail I’d go with the Yamaha, but if you prefer a warmer, richer sound with a softer treble presentation detail go with the Marantz. Best of luck. |
Thats pretty much what I said earlier soix.
Monitor Audio Silvers and whichever sound signature you prefer with regards to yamaha or marantz...
@Oliver, where are hou getting these deals? Thats pretty good if you are getting around 35% off new!
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Don’t bash me but if you play much metal, and enjoy it a fairly loud volume you might want to look into Paradigm as another option. Only personally familiar with the B&W and Monitor Audio’s mentioned and both are fine speakers, but if you want to push your system a little on the harder side my opinion is the Paradigms can be pushed harder without losing it. |
op
i am not up on speakers in your price range but it seems to be that q acoustics and elac are two brands that have made quite good names for themselves making high value lower cost speakers - the andrew jones designed elacs are very well regarded by reviewers
i have not heard monitor audios in decades i know their line has been overhauled many times, perhaps with change of ownership as well... but it soix b-limo and others are suggesting these, i would also trust their advice
going used is a good idea for sure, to get most performance for your $ |
Unfortunately all those speakers you've listed are way better than your apps or receivers that you've listed. |
I have a friend with a Yamaha A-S301 integrated amp and some Monitor Audio Bronze 2 bookshelfs and it sounds very good. He added a used SVS sb1000 sub and the overall sound quality surprises me every time I hear it.
I also have another friend that had Kef Q700 towers and a mid tier Marantz AVR and I was always impressed by the Kef Q series. He likes to listen pretty loud at times and the Kefs did a good job of keeping up. He upgraded to Monitor Audio Gold 200 towers for what its worth.
Lots of good options for a first system in your list. Set a budget and stick to it. Resist the urge to upsell yourself chasing the opinions of others. There is always a step up the cost ladder available with hi-fi gear and always someone here ready to tell how much better it could be if you just spend a couple hundred more. |
@b_limo its coming from a website called peter Tyson. I think they have a few UK based stores although I obviously cannot go to visit, I wonder if they ship internationally though? https://petertyson.co.uk/hifi/bundles-offers thats a link to their bundle offers although there are a lot to filter through but I agree the savings on some of them seem excellent. It is hard to stick to a budget, I've probably already gone over a bit but sometimes its hard to resist with all the great ideas people put out and obviously wanting to get the best stuff possible and I'll admit I am probably a little more influenced by others opinions than I should be. I'm working my way through all the recommendations and really appreciate all your guys advice to. Its helpful talking to people who have first-hand experience with them as well as other reviews. I'm slowly making progress hopefully I'll get there soon |
I certainly would not get a Marantz. I have one for my surround system in my family room driven by Definitive Technology speakers which are satisfactory for watching TV and some movies. I am building a higher end system for the living room eventually, but can get buy with what I have.
I personally feel more comfortable with new. However, this group might be very helpful in finding you some good used equipment that might be better than what you thinking about. The big thing is to avoid making some of the same mistakes we all have made. That's why this group is so valuable to belong to. |
Hi Oliver. Yes, do slow down a bit. You can research and figure it out in 2-3 weeks of research.
Its nice to work your way up through the tiers because it gives you better ears and more appreciation for the higher models that you might have overlooked if you just jump to the top at the start. For instance, you get Monitor Audio Bronze and think they sound great. So good in fact that you are willing to spend more to see how much better the Silvers are so you get Silvers and yes, they are better. You listen to them for awhile and the upgrade bug bites again and you get Golds. Now you’re talking! You can appreciate the Golds, their refined sound and awesome build quality because you started with Bronze’s.
This approach though costs some $ because you will lose a little bit with each sale (even buying used and at good prices).
Its also a good idea to try to make it to a level where you aren’t going to want to upgrade right away.
If you are starting from scratch, you might want to look into a bluesound node 2i, an integrated amp with or without a dac and speakers (you can use the bluesound node 2i dac if you land an integrated with no dac. Later on you can add an external dac for $200-$600 and have a nice upgrade at that point.)
So, bluesound, integrated, speakers, cables from bluejeans. That would be my suggestion. |
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Yeah I don't intend to buy anything right away and might take a couple weeks anyway if I want to save up an extra bit of money. I definitely think my preference would be to buy new, plus it would come with a warranty and I'm always a little sceptical with second hand stuff, especially as I cant go and check it out. Saying that obviously if there's a stand out deal or something I'll consider it. The first website in the links above looks like a decent place to look around.
I agree as well it sounds like a nice idea to work my way up as well as it allowing me to better appreciate the music and equipment. At the same time I want to come in at a good level though so I get a good quality sound and value, I guess I've got to find somewhere in the middle.
For monitor audio I'm looking at the silver range, gold seems to expensive and clearly silver beats bronze. However, I'm struggling to see the difference between some of the models, the 200, 300 and 500 seem to be pretty similar except the 500 appears a fair bit bigger. Not too sure what justifies the £250 difference between each of them. I've also seen the occasional silver 6 or 10 pop up but can't find anything really about them on the internet and how they compare to the others mentioned above.
I haven't heard of bluesound before so I'll see what that is too as well as sticking to narrowing down speaker options. Every time I seem to get somewhere I find a new one recommended somewhere, spoilt for choice I guess there are worse positions to be in. The most recent to come across my computer was the Jamo C 97 ii, but again can't find much on it unlike the other speakers on my list.
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Its usually larger drivers or more drivers as you work up the model line. For example, the monitor audio silver 50 is the smaller bookshelf with a 5.25" driver while the silver 100 is the larger bookshelf with an 8" driver. Try looking for pictures of the entire model line together (most manufacturers do this) and it will help with perspective as you can see the relative size difference between the speakers in that model line.
Also, if you do go down the upgrade rabbit hole as many of us have, your perspective will change regarding price and value in general. When I bought my Rega Planar 2 a couple years ago, $600 was what I considered my max budget for a turntable. Earlier this year I bought a new model Planar 8 with Apheta 3 cartridge and a Rega Aria phono stage. All together that package retails at about 10 times the Planar 2. I've done similar things with speakers/subs/cables etc. I don't regret any of those purchases but it was a process to get there.
You may find out you are quite content with your initial purchase and never get the upgrade bug (as my pal with the yamaha/ monitor set up is) or you may go full crazy like the rest of us. If you take care of your gear you can always trade it in (save your boxes). Used stuff didn't start appealing to me until the prices started getting higher. On a $5000 pair of speakers you can be pretty sure they are in good shape from a good reputsble seller and the 40% discount makes the purchase easier to justify. On entry level gear I tend to agree that new is the way to go not enough benefit versus the risk.
Good luck and keep asking questions if you have them. Lots of knowledge people here on the forum. |
Oli,
You have identified 2-3 pretty good brands. Dali all sound great. As are Q Acoustics.
The latest Wharfdales seem to get great reviews. Problem is these are are all too good for your power supply. The system needs synergy to maximize your $. Theory says to buy speakers first. Also agree you should consider some 2-4 year old speakers to double your budget.
That could get you an amp upgrade too. Happy hunting!! |
If you could swing a Rega IO and a pair of Monitor Audio Gold GX100’s you’d be off to a really nice start... I’d make sacrifices for a few weeks if I had to, as in use my phone with a 3.5 mm cord and no dac until I could get a Bluesound node 2i, then I’d use the dac in the Bluedound until I could get a better dac like a schiit bifrost multibit or whatever and then you’d be sittin pretty.
I think Monitor Audio Silvers would be my choice (and a good one!) in the lesser price range. Q acoustics, kef, dali are all great speakers as well but I feel that the Silvers are best in that price point. I had some Gold GX50’s and loved them. They are just built so well. Silvers look to be really close. The bolt thru drivers are a cool idea and unique to them. Check out those bolts on the backs of the speakers. Those contect to the drivers and hold the drivers in the cabinets that way. The drivers, cabinets, internal wiring all looked really nice in my Golds, like really nice.
As stated above about the differences in the models, as you go up the line they get bigger and with more drivers / bigger drivers.
I’ve found that the 7” drivers can handle more abuse or louder volumes than the 5” drivers. Take this into account... I had paradigm studio 60’s that had three 5 1/2” drivers. I also had the Studio 20 which had one 7” driver. Both were from the same generation, v5. The 60’s sounded awesome and had slightly more dynamics at low to medium levels but the 20’s could play louder and stay composed at higher volumes than the 60’s. Paradigm makes a studio 100 that uses 4 of the larger 7” drivers which would have overloaded my room so the only way to get “more” within the brand was to move from Studio 20’s to S2’s.
Point is, if you like to crank it up at times, the 7” drivers are better. If you are always listening at quiet to medium volumes, sometimes the 5” versions are better because all other things equal, the smaller driver will be faster and the thinner front baffle can produce better imaging. A thin, tall speaker is pretty sexy too.
I don’t think you have to worry about much when buying speakers preowned at this level (just do your due diligence with the seller) and I think you can save some $ doing it that way. Preowned integrateds in the $500-$700 range aren’t going to offer much, if any, over something like a new Rega IO @ $500 and buying electronics new is reassuring (warranty etc).
When looking at speakers remember that stands are going to cost $150 so that eats into a savings you have with a standmount vs a floorstanding speaker.
Good Luck and have fun! |
With the Monitor Audio Silvers definitely consider at least the 300 as this is where you get a dedicated midrange driver, which should make it a meaningful qualitative step up from the 200.
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If you listen to any rock or metal you want to go with a good vintage speaker from a prominent vintage brand the list of all those speakers will not be able to play that style of music at all and you will be throwing your money away and be sadly disappointed. Try to find a vintage seller in your area and listen to a jbl, altec, electro voice, or klipsch in your price range and make sure the manufacture date of the speaker is prior to 1981. The reason for this is that the quality o all american speakers went down the tubes at around this time.
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Only vintage speakers can play rock music? That is a first for me. Guess I need to dump my Revels... |
You missed out, the Wharfedale diamond 11.2 was only $199.99 on amazon and is a better speaker than the 12.4 or any current diamond model. The 225’s, even better. Awarded component of the year by both Stereophile and the absolute sound in 2017.
If I were you, I’d audition the Lintons. I’ve yet to read a single bad review, and there are many many reviews.
Another option is the Martin Logan 15 over at crutchfield, on sale for only $249 each, usually $399 each. Great deal but only in black. It has that great folded motion tweeter. |
"...folded motion tweeter..."
AKA, an single face AMT....
Well, it is a step up from domes 'n cones... |
Another sales pitch from MC about tekton speakers and he hasn't even heard the speakers he is talking about. Tekton has been called out for over stating their sensitivity ratings, the reviewer said they were closer to 90db.
There are many good/great speakers that you can drive with a less expensive amp that would be a better choice. A used pair of Totem rainmakers, a used pair of Usher S520's, a used pair of Revel M20's, a used pair of Kef reference 1's or 2's, Elac, and others. If you purchase any of these speakers, the weakest link will be your amp and the speakers will sound better if and when you update your other components. If you need more bass, get a good Rel sub |
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What I did was pick a price for speakers then double it and shop used for 50% deals. If you can find a pair on your list used and within driving distance, buy them and try them then resell them. You ain’t going to make any money, but you’ll control the bleeding while you figure out your room acoustics, personal preference, and components signature. I’m on my 5-6th pair, idk maybe 10, probably more, but...I’m getting there and am only out time and gasoline.(and initial investment) |
Ok, I've spent a lot of time looking at speakers and my budget over the weekend. For now I am going to have to go with a more budget friendly speaker but I wholly intend of upgrading in the future and will certainly come back to this thread when that time comes. For now, however, I am limited by expenses but I still believe I have some good options. The two speakers I've narrowed it down to are the Q Acoustics 3050i and the Dali Oberon 5, both I can secure for the same price. For reference if I could afford it I was leaning to a pair of the monitor audio silvers so if you recommended them good job. But maybe I could even go for some golds in the future you never know.
Anyway its between the Dali and the 3050i, what's getting your guys votes and why? Thanks again
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As a response to the Wharfedale diamond 11.2 for only $199.99 on amazon it was a great price but I couldn't get used to the bottom ported bass. Also, nothing remarkable about the SQ though mides and highs expected for its' price and somewhat above. The 225’s, had a warmer bass and sounded nice but I'd miss the highs and with either the 11.2s and 225s, the tone changes alot when you move outside the sweet spot so I prefer a wide dispersion speaker. Sent back the 11.2s.
The Martin Logan 15s with the folded motion tweeter presented voices with a more live sound vs studio, were easy to drive with lower power but couldn't be driven to louder levels without breaking up. I thought the mid cone held them back. Nice looking speaker but the gloss gave alot of glare with light. sent them back. Other than voice, sounded exactly like my Paradigm SE-1s. The Paradigms needed more power to get them to sound level with the MLs but you could crank them loud and they still sounded cohesive while the MLs didn't. Both didn't have the mids/highs I was looking for.
Next up, an MA Silver 50 6th. The Silver 100s were really nice but a bit overpowing for me for my room. Would have kept them but compared them against Focals I have. Liked the upper mids and highs better on Focals but the Silver 100s are really nice and were definitely worth the discounted price.
Needs now are for a small speaker with small sub if necessary
BTW, tried the Oberon 1s in my system too and found them decent enough but not enough dynamic range/capability, ok for music but not as good for movies. King of overpriced for what you get but then again, aren't they all now? Nice vinyl finish though and easy to place. Can be a bit bright too without the added airiness I look for. Should be priced under $500 IMO.
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