To all the audiophiles that have tried different power cables, interconnects, and speaker cables, which do you believe makes the biggest impact in your system in order of ranking? If you don't believe that cables/interconnects/pc's make any difference at all, and is all marketing hype and snake oil, you can vote accordingly, but my ONLY request is that you've tried different cables first!
Ok..My ranking: 1. Power cables - most important 2. Interconnects 3. Speaker cable
Speaker cables 10% Interconnects 9% Power cords 0.1%
I've placed order on some VD Nite II power cords and this will be the last time I'll be spending on cords if I don't hear a *fairly* noticeable difference. For the record, I've tried a few fairly cheap cords which include the Kimber, Supra Lorad 2.5 and NBS Dragonfly. I do hope I will find revelation with the new cords or otherwise it would yet be another fruitless but surely final attempt in trying out power cords.
(Note: I am not attacking Zippyy in this diatribe, but rather Dr. Howard Johnson!)Zippyy coyly lays out the link and sits back to watch...
The above link, that of the interview with Howard Johnson, PhD, I see as weakly pertinent to our discussion. His primary point is that OFC copper is not superior to oxygenated copper. So? That is only one small facet of the design and implementation of power cords, IC's and Speaker cables. It certainly does not convince me in any way that "all cords are essentially the same."
Regarding his assertion that oxidation doesn't effect sonics, I would tend to agree. I have had cables which have oxidized, and cleaning them has produced one of the most imperceptible (i.e. non-existent) "improvements" of any supposed tweak I have tried.
I suspect Dr. Howard Johnson has not spent much time with high end audio, having dismissed the efficacy of high end cables in principle, my guess is that he would be quite content with a mid-fi stereo (I would be very surprised if he had high end components with low end cabling). Then, his pontifical stance regarding cables would be fairly worthless. It would be a perfect example of how the decrees of academia don't mesh with real world experience. I see his comments as betraying the fact that he's had no experience in the matter. He can huff and puff all he wants, but his proclamation doesn't change the fact that not all cables are the same.
This is a good example of why I do not simply take someone's advice as truth simply because they have a degree attached to their name. A person must think for themselves or else suffer the consequences. (If you think that I'm "suffering" unnecessary expenses due to my belief that cables make a difference, that's ok, you can feel sorry for me!) I'll gladly "suffer" the consequences of upgraded cables.
An aside: I assert that every person who posts to a cable forum should list their system. The fact is that many rigs are simply ineffectual at revealing cable nuances. Endless debate circulates unnecessarily as "phantom stereos" lurk in the background, and posters say, "I have never heard a difference..." Sorry, it's just not a level playing field to debate the issue when I don't know what equipment you run.
I will automatically weight your comment less if you can't show me the equipment you're using to make your judgment. That's reality. And the reality is also that if you show me your system and I deem it not worthy to make your assertion, I will conclude you do not know what you're talking about. That's reality, too. 99% of Audiophiles will think this way silently to themselves, but very few will actually say it. Well, I said it, and it's the truth.
My rig; well, mine is quite a bit different in a good way from what's shown here on my virtual system, but what's shown here is plentious enough to hear changes in cables. (I will not disclose all the equipment I'm using for reviewing purposes, but suffice to say that there are components which make distinguishing between cables even easier than those listed).
This whole discussion of power cables brings me to another un-answered question I wrote back in the spring of 2006...If we have literally hundreds of miles of so-so electrical cable running through our lives...why not just use the same Romex cable that runs through our walls for our audio systems? It seems like this would be the best we could do to keep the flow the same.
I don't mean to hi-jack this thread so if anyone has an idea let me know.
For me the order is: Interconnects, Speaker cable, Power cables (have never even tried any ones other than what came in the boxes with my equipment.)
which makes the biggest difference? the worst one in the worst application that you upgrade.
i've had it be the amp PC, the IC off the source, the PC off the source, the speaker cable.
but never the digital cable! so there!
(in all seriousness, there are no hard & fast rules; i thought if a component had a well designed power supply it would be immune; the Esoteric XO1-D2, which is built like no other player, disproved my theory with its sensitivity to power cords).
"Ordinary 60-Hz power travels miles from the nearest power station over ordinary, oxygen-rich, noncryogenically frozen wires laden with bird poop. It goes through a local distribution transformer (gobs more regular wire in there) and then travels hundreds of feet more through your house wiring to a local outlet. Do you think the last 6 ft of cryogenically altered, helically wound, hand-braided, eight-gauge wire makes any sensible difference?
You could probably solder together old, rusty coat hangers and do just as well, provided you donÂ’t have any young children or pets in the house.
So what do you really need in a power cable? Insulation is a good idea. Stranding is good, too. Stranded wire is flexible enough to bend many times without breaking. ThatÂ’s all the technology you need.
Ernie: How about shielding? A lot of high-end audio-power cables are shielded.
Howard: ItÂ’s a nice idea, but because all the other wires in the house lurking behind the dry wall remain unshielded, it doesnÂ’t help to shield the last little 6-ft chunk."
Power Cords. 1. DAC and Transport 2. Pre Amp 3. Power Amp
For interconnects. 1. Source to pre 2. Pre to power
In my opinion speaker wires are every bit as important as interconnects so if you need to make a significant change with just one pair of interconnect or one pair of speaker wire I'd go for the speaker wires first since this represents a complete change in one section of the signal path, assuming all other factors are equal. Conversely I see changing just one pair of interconnects in a standard two pair interconnect system (source to pre, and pre to power) as effecting a change to only half of the interconnect chain. As to which cable is of utmost importance, I think it really depends more on the state of your systems current cables with an eye for itÂ’s weakest link, not an absolute standard. At the end of the day every cable in the chain is equally important and no cable can be ignored when synergy is your goal.
The best speaker cables in the world and best IC's cannot atone for sins made upstream. i.e. If the source's signal is ruined for lack of serious power cables, then one is fighting a mighty battle trying recoup what's been lost.
Wireless200, I have been saying for quite some time that the configuration, gauge, and materials of cabling (including PC's) have a profound influence on the sound of systems. Many here would agree.
It really does seem counter-intuitive, but I wholeheartedly subscribe to the "Front End Influence" theory that high quality power cords must be used if one is going to have a fighting chance at reaching Hi Fi.
From the experiments with fine cables I have reviewed in the past couple years, If hard pressed to chose superior power cord or superior speaker cable, at this point, I would likely chose the power cord!
Now, Imagine, if a PC on a source is so important, what of the pre? the amp(s)? Truly, when one finds a superior wire, the benefits of outfitting the entire rig seem to be almost exponential.
Over the many years I've been doing audio, I also have come in the "back door" to seeing the significance of quality power cabling. I used to seek serious speaker cables and didn't appreciate the need to feed the source, then amp(s) with just as high quality power cabling. Now, it would be inconceivable for me to put together a rig without it. BTW, my virtual system here is quite old and I haven't updated it with the equipment I'm currently using.
So, allow me to break this down further: Primary: Power on Source Power on Pre/Amp(s) Secondary: IC's Tertiary: Speaker
Again, ALL are critical to a superb system. However, you pollute a river upstream and you'll be working multiples harder to clean it up downstream. Similarly, pollute the source, and you've made a problem for yourself by the time you reach the speaker cables.
Similar in concept to: Engine, Transmission, suspension. Without a fine engine, the rest hardly matters. Similarly, without a pristine source, the rest suffers.
I've only been in this hobby for about 4 years but in reading Jmcgrogan2's earlier thread today on "Am I Wrong To Be Satisfied", I tend to believe he knows the answer about cable priority. He's been in the hobby for 30 years and has built the "ultimately satisfying system." He said, "I fought the power cord concept for years, but after 5 years of experimenting, this is now the conclusion that I hold." He even says it irritates him to conclude that power cords are dominant. With 30 years in the hobby, spending 5 years experimenting with power cords, resisting the idea of their dominance of the sonics, that says it for me. That was my conclusion too. Power cords top the list in cable priority in my opinion.
I don't know why so many people think that there is bad electricity in some areas. It's all AC and it's ALL dirty and noisy. It's the nature of the AC beast. Yes, it may be a tad worse in some areas but it's BAD everywhere.
Sorry Pawlowski, I don't mean to single you out because it seems the vast majority think the same way.
Since my line conditioners have built-in power cables I cannot respond with the exact same experience as the others.
Between ics and scs, the ics make far more impact in my experience.
But the big question is, which run of ics make the biggest impact? Between the source and pre or the pre and amp?
Again, in my experience the run between the source and pre is far more significant than the ics running between the pre and amp. I know a few others who have had the same experience.
Interesting. Re power cords, how is it that after that electricity is generated at the plant it goes through numerous wires, transformers, taps, circuit breakers, cables, wires, meters, protections devices, etc. before it gets to your house and then somehow a power cord cleans all this up and upgrades the sound?
I'm not denying a power cord makes a difference just trying to understand the rationale. I would believe a power conditioner of some sort would have an effect but a power cord, I just don't see the logic.
My house and associated electrical wiring are new and I have a dedicated line for the equipment with a separate dedicated line for the amp. I use a Running Springs Jaco conditioner.
Guess what?
The power cords still have the greatest impact on the sound.
I use all Virtual Dynamics Nite cords 'n cables with great success and the order that makes the biggest gains in performance are:
In my experiences with two separate systems (one analog-one digital HT), I found that power cords had the most sonic characteristics from cord to cord. In an effort to get close to neutrality, dedicated circuits & quality outlets made the most substantial improvement where I no longer use exotic P/C's as tone controls. Given this, I then give the nod of importance to I/C's and speaker. My belief is that the quality of the wire itself and the end connections are far more important than exotic cable geometries. YMMV as mine has.
I think it's where you use the cables first that matters.
1. Treat the source first with the best power cable and interconnect that suits it. 2. Then the power conditioner with the best power cable. 3. Than the preamp with the best interconnect and power cord that suits it. 4. Speaker cables are next. 5. Amplifier last with interconnect and power cord.
Well Tony, I for one, agree with you. As much as it irritates me to admit it, I now believe that the power cord has the most influence on the sound, by a large margin. I fought the power cord concept for years, but after 5 years of experimenting, this is now the conclusion that I hold. Second is the interconnects, though followed more closely by the speaker cables.
To prioritize is not to appreciate that cabling and the system itself are part of a whole. One thing that my latest system building exercise has taught me (going on 9+ months now) is that it all matters; you can't properly appreciate any cable without the rest of the cables being up to the same level, not to mention the components and isolation.
I think, in general, cables can have an impact on a systems sound. However, I believe that it's relatively small compared to everything else you can replace in a system and, that goes for tubes, components, media, etc.
With that, I believe that Interconnects could make the largest difference then, speaker and then PC.
PC could make a large difference in a system where bad electricity is a problem to begin with.
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