What should I upgrade next in my system?


Would a music streamer be the best place to spend money?

(2) MartinLogan  Renaissance ESL 15A electrostatic speakers for front channels.

https://www.audioadvice.com/renaissance-esl-15a-speaker

https://www.martinlogan.com/en/product/renaissance-esl-15a

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00vU9u-mAgc&t=1027s

 

(1) MartinLogan Illusion ESL C34A Center Channel Electrostatic Speaker

https://www.martinlogan.com/en/product/illusion-esl-c34a

 

(2) REL Carbon Special Subwoofers set up to run stereo.

https://rel.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/REL_Carbon_SPECIAL_Manual_04-20-Web.pdf

Sony - VPL-XW5000ES 4K SXRD Laser Projector    5995

https://helpguide.sony.net/vpl/xw5000/v1/en/contents/TP1000557903.html

Anthem AVM 60 11.2 Channel Preamplifier and Processor.  2995

https://www.anthemav.com/downloads/avm-mrx-english-manual.pdf

 

Mark Levinson Number 532H Power Amplifier for front two channels (300 watts x 2 channels)

https://www.marklevinson.com/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-ML-US-NCOM-Library/default/dw263f2f7b/glp/support/downloads/No532H/Mark-Levinson-No532H-Manual.pdf

 

https://www.stereophile.com/content/mark-levinson-no532h-power-amplifier

 

 

Krell KAV-3250 Amplifier for center channel and back two channels (250 watts x 3 channels).  6000

https://www.krellhifi.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Krell_KAV2250_3250_Owners_Reference.pdf

 

Oppo UDP-203 Blu-ray Player

https://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-udp-203/

 

Screen Innovations 120” Fixed Projection Screen

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_9543F120SG/Screen-Innovations-3-Series-120.html?tp=166
 

Savant Pro Remote X2

https://www.savant.com/pro-remote-x2

 

Netgear NightHawk X4S Model C7800 AC3200 WiFi Cable Modem Router

https://www.netgear.com/home/wifi/modem-routers/c7800/

 

Cox Contour Cable Box (1) in the rack in the equipment closet for Media Room and (1) on the closet shelf for the (2) outdoor TV’s

https://www.cox.com/residential/tv/learn/learn-about-contour2.html

 

Panamax M5300-PM Power Conditioner/Filter

https://www.panamax.com/product/max-5300-power-management-2ru-11-outlets/

 

Lutron Caseta Wireless Light System L-BDGPRO2

https://www.casetawireless.com/proproducts

 

Headphones:

 

 

Focal Clear Mg  Open-Back Headphones with 55 Ohms Sensitivity 104dB SPL / 1mW @ 1kHzTHD0,25% @ 1kHz / 100dB SPL Frequency response5Hz-28kHzLoudspeaker1.6" (40mm) Aluminum/Magnesium 'M'-shape dome

 

https://www.focal.com/headphones/pdf/clear_specification-sheet.pdf

 

Sennheiser HD800S-Reference closed back Headphones

https://en-us.sennheiser.com/high-resolution-headphones-3d-audio-hd-800-s

 

Sennheiser HDVD800-Headphone Amp

https://en-us.sennheiser.com/headphone-audio-amplification-hdvd-800-acoustic

 

Sennheiser Momentum 3 Wireless Headphones

 

Sennheiser Momentum 1 Wireless Headphones

 

Master & Dynamic MW65 Active Noise-Cancelling (Anc) Wireless Headphones - Bluetooth Over-Ear Headphones with Mic, Silver Metal/ Brown Leather

 

https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjkiIqwz6juAhW6OLMAHQLwCzcYABAJGgJ5bQ&ae=2&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAASE-Ro2myFDVoCjcansNlPV7X7umk&sig=AOD64_03lp-46FByV0s9BSVc32ArD_sHdg&q&adurl&ved=2ahUKEwifuoCwz6juAhUHS60KHUlEDQ8Q0Qx6BAg4EAE&dct=1

 

Apple Pro Earbuds

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MWP22AM/A/airpods-pro

Rick Guild

918-645-3677

128x128rickguild

Quite the list all the way down to your earbuds.  I read through it quickly and didn't see a DAC.  

I assume you're looking for good 2 channel sound kindof islolated inside your HT system.  that's what I  have.  

So a streamer won't do much good without a DAC.  Your ML amp and ML speakers should be a very nice pair but you'll need a streamer and DAC to feed them. I see your amp has 2 inputs with switches.  Hopefully it isn't buried in a cabinet where you can't reach the switches.  

Get a streamer and a DAC and hook it to the amp input that you aren't using and you'll avoid all the HT electronics and I think you'll love the sound....now you have to do a lot of research.  I'll start.  I'm a big fan of the Grimm MU1 streamer and the Lampizator Golden Gate 3 DAC.

Jerry

Thanks Jerry! Great idea! I did not know my Mark Levinson amp had switching ability. I will research the Grimm streamer and Lampizator DAC. Thank you!

It is quite a strange post- there is a lack of an objective communicated although it appears the first responder’s assumption looks to be correct. You spent quite a bit of effort posting it so hopefully you get some responses. 

Just to clarify:

You have never streamed music before and you are looking to start?

Or are you asking if getting a streamer (and an external DAC) is a better option than upgrading your Oppo to a higher end CD player?

I assume that is how you listen to music now, spinning CD’s in the Oppo?

And budget is helpful for appropriate answers. If the budget is 30K I can’t see you being disappointed with the suggestion above. laugh

 

 

 

I agree with @mclinnguy that it’s difficult to answer your question for the reasons stated, but IMO, the most seamless way to start is to upgrade your digital source. I’ve owned the Oppo 205 and I think that any $1000+ dac will be quite an upgrade. You can use the Oppo as a transport for starters. You can still play SACDs directly from the Oppo, but I think that Redbook through the dac will sound better than SACDs through the Oppo. As to what dac to buy, there are tons of threads here on that. Check out the dac shootout thread by Verdant. Whether you want to get into streaming is another issue. I personally do not stream, so I’m not going to opine in the merits of streaming. But I do think your source is currently your best path for an upgrade. The Oppo is a great jack of all trades, but, IMO, the sound cannot compare to a good dac. Be well .

Thank you for all the great ideas. Even though I subscribe to both Tidal and Qobuz, I mostly stream through a 4K Apple TV using YouTube Music. The reason I use YouTube Music is because I like live video with my concert recordings and they seem to have the most live concert videos, and the sound quality through the Apple TV seems to be pretty good. I have a 120-inch Sony laser projector in a dedicated media room. 90% of my time in my media room I am watching concert videos such as the Eagles in Melbourne, John Mayer in LA, Tears for Fears live from Village Studios, Steely Dan, Morgan Wallen live recordings from Apple Studio, etc. I use the Oppo 203 as the source when watching Blu-ray versions of these concerts, concerts I download to my 5T Seagate hard drive from the internet, or very seldom a SACD. Even though I have a nice set of surround speakers, I listen to two channel 95% of the time though the Martin Logan 15A's. I have some acoustic treatments in the room, but because of the room size, I am somewhat limited. All my previous rooms where filled with ARC treatments. It definitely sounds like upgrading the Apple TV is the way to go, but how do I do that without losing the video component or making the system overly complicated? Kaleidoscope seems excessively expensive, and I do not watch many movies, mostly only concerts, which I find easily through downloads onto to my multiple 5T Seagate hard drives which are totally full of concert videos I have found over the past 30 years.

I also agree with post by @mclinnguy … it is difficult to answer until his additional questions are answered.  Your speakers and amplification are solid performers.  However, I cannot comment on the theater processors you are using for I do not have any experience with these units.  I also recommend starting with the digital front end.  If your budget is $30k, I would spend half on a DAC and half on a streamer/server.  My favorites that get you to near world class performance are a Mola Mola Tambaqui or Bricasti M1 with an Aurender N20, preowned W20SE or Grimm.  

I appreciate the DAC and Streamer recommendations, but my budget is probably not 30K (even though it was on my speakers) until I am convinced that spending 10K on a previously-owned DAC and Streamer does not get me 90% of the 30K performance. Am I wrong in thinking that? 

Would the new DAC and Streamer eliminate my Anthem AVM 60 Preamplifier and Processor from my system? If so, how do I use my Oppo 203, Cox Cable and Apple TV through them?

How bad is the 4K Apple TV streamer and Anthem processor I am currently using for Tidal, Qobuz, and YouTube Music? I assume pretty bad...

I do love how easy the 4K Apple TV is to use.

+1 @deep_333 Think of the room as one of your most important components.

How bad is the 4K Apple TV streamer and Anthem processor I am currently using for Tidal, Qobuz, and YouTube Music? I assume pretty bad...

Better than Apple TV can be had for sure. Easy peasy.

Given your home theater set up @rickguild using a vendor to jigger your system might be the way to go. Most of us here are two channel sit in the chair and listen types. Period. There are some RtoR types but most members use vinyl and/or streaming. I’m all in on Grimm streamers (their one box combo or their unit with a stand alone DAC) too but at that level there are plenty of others just as excellent. But the room makes such a big difference. So there’s that.

@rickguild No, your Anthem prepro is the heart of your multichannel system and shouldn’t be going anywhere.

These are 2 channel guys on this forum, who are probably quite confused about your rig.

A higher quality streamer transport into your Anthem prepro could possibly improve the sound quality. But, no, you wouldn’t need a 10000 dollar streamer for that??!! Try maybe a 300 dollar Wiim Ultra streamer as the transport into your prepro, with lots of other user friendly features. I know your Anthem prepro won’t let you do any manual PEQ, etc.

A power conditioner such as the Audioquest Niagara or PowerQuest 707 will improve the sound.

The most important thing on multichannel rigs is room treatment, but, if you are set up in a living room and wife won’t let you, well.... there’s your bottle neck.

On a different note, your Anthem Prepro is now almost 10 years since release. A sonic upgrade for it might be the newer Marantz AV10 prepro. But, you need to know how to set up a prepro, read the manual from cover to cover, run a calibration correctly, do finer tweaks from there, etc, ask questions on avsforum maybe. The Marantz AV10 already came with all kinds of streaming feaures and a great DAC where you didn’t need any other dacs or streamers...no Grimm...no Brimm for 10k needed..

 

I appreciate the DAC and Streamer recommendations, but my budget is probably not 30K (even though it was on my speakers) until I am convinced that spending 10K on a previously-owned DAC and Streamer does not get me 90% of the 30K performance. Am I wrong in thinking that?

Would the new DAC and Streamer eliminate my Anthem AVM 60 Preamplifier and Processor from my system? If so, how do I use my Oppo 203, Cox Cable and Apple TV through them?

How bad is the 4K Apple TV streamer and Anthem processor I am currently using for Tidal, Qobuz, and YouTube Music? I assume pretty bad...

I do love how easy the 4K Apple TV is to use.

Am no Apple TV expert, but if you’re streaming videos, you can use an external dac for the audio portion but you’ve got to use the apple tv streamer for the video portion (I think).  You can get a better streamer for Quobuz and Tidal, but of course you won’t be using that for concert videos.  So, if your use case is watching videos, a new dac is your priority, not a streamer.

one other thought: if your primary source is youtube, that’s compressed, lossy audio, so you shouldn’t spend a ton on a DAC, IMHO.  But you’ll probably be able to hear substantial improvement spending less than $1000.

@rickguild I think this is right up your alley: 

https://www.linn.co.uk/ca/network-music-players/selekt-dsm

https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/linn-selekt-dsm-edition-hub

Find a Linn dealer and see what this box can do for you. It is totally configurable based on how much you want to spend on the streamer/DAC/processor portion, it contains all the modern video DTS and Dolby processing and with HDMI switching module you just connect various inputs like gaming or your Apple TV into it, and can even contain built-in amplifier modules (you probably don't need). It has Linn's own proprietary room correction which looks interesting, and this is set up by the dealer not by the customer- nice approach. 

If you want to get an end game streamer and spend crazy money look at Klimax DSM:

https://hifiplus.com/articles/linn-klimax-dsm-network-streaming-preamplifier/

Here are the Apple TV specs I use for Qobuz, Tidal and YouTube music videos. What improvements should I expect with a 5K streamer and DAC like the HiFi Rose RS151?

HE-AAC (V1), AAC (up to 320 Kbps), protected AAC (from iTunes Store), MP3 (up to 320 Kbps), MP3 VBR, Apple Lossless, FLAC, AIFF, and WAV; AC-3 (Dolby Digital 5.1), E-AC-3 (Dolby Digital Plus 7.1 surround sound), and Dolby Atmos.

Here are the Apple TV video specs. Should I expect any improvements with the HiFi Rose RS151?

https://www.audioadvice.com/products/hifi-rose-rs151-high-performance-network-streamer-gen-2#overview

SDR video with AVC/HEVC (Main/Main 10 profile) up to 2160p, 60 fps

Dolby Vision (Profile 5) up to 2160p, 60 fps

HDR10+/HDR10/HLG with HEVC (Main 10 Profile) up to 2160p, 60 fps

H.264 Baseline Profile level 3.0 or lower with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps per channel, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats

MPEG-4 video up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 fps, Simple profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats

HDMI Quick Media Switching (QMS) for seamless format transitions

Support for 21:9 and other cinematic aspect ratios when playing movies and shows on compatible projectors and displays6

 

Definitely check out a streamer if none already. I can recommend Cambridge audio +Roon as a good place to start. 

Apple has the largest catalog of atmos and spatial mixes. None of it will be getting to you through a hifirose.

You are trying to mix stereo equipment with multichannel equipment...it doesn’t quite work that way. Choice of gear for moving up the ladder for each type of application is different. So, decide on what you want. There are some gear lists on my profile for stereo and multichannel in a couple of different rooms (that might serve as a data point).

Here are a couple of vids on how to set things up with apple tv.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0i52I79NaU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMKyqwULAMQ&t=208s

For moving up the multichannel domain, there’s other types of equipment, Storm Audio, Trinnov, etc. depending on how deep your pockets are.

 

Here are the Apple TV specs I use for Qobuz, Tidal and YouTube music videos. What improvements should I expect with a 5K streamer and DAC like the HiFi Rose RS151?

HE-AAC (V1), AAC (up to 320 Kbps), protected AAC (from iTunes Store), MP3 (up to 320 Kbps), MP3 VBR, Apple Lossless, FLAC, AIFF, and WAV; AC-3 (Dolby Digital 5.1), E-AC-3 (Dolby Digital Plus 7.1 surround sound), and Dolby Atmos.

Here are the Apple TV video specs. Should I expect any improvements with the HiFi Rose RS151?

https://www.audioadvice.com/products/hifi-rose-rs151-high-performance-network-streamer-gen-2#overview

SDR video with AVC/HEVC (Main/Main 10 profile) up to 2160p, 60 fps

Dolby Vision (Profile 5) up to 2160p, 60 fps

HDR10+/HDR10/HLG with HEVC (Main 10 Profile) up to 2160p, 60 fps

H.264 Baseline Profile level 3.0 or lower with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps per channel, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats

MPEG-4 video up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 fps, Simple profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats

HDMI Quick Media Switching (QMS) for seamless format transitions

Support for 21:9 and other cinematic aspect ratios when playing movies and shows on compatible projectors and displays

 

The 11k MBL Network Player C41 seems like a sonic bargain.  Another is the Linn Klimax DSM/2 with Organik DAC upgrade which I own.