Same old same old, if it sounds too good to be true it probably is. They had so many folks carry their water for so long and I for one am glad this all happened because it was getting silly with the praise and hype. Its nice to face reality......well maybe not for Emotiva. |
"Emotiva is still working through the issues with the UMC-1. Per their forum they are up to firmware version W7.02.00.00." (jedinight24)
Come on! You gotta laugh at that one, right?. I mean we're talking about a piece of gear that has been worked on now for litterally YEEEEEEEARS! - a product that is now outdated in respect to the latest feature sets currently available.
By the time they possibly ever do get the buggs worked out, The UMC-1 will surely be an obsolete product, yes?
The UMC-1 has to be the best running joke in the history of the industry, by my recollection! There's got to be a place in the consumer electronics annals, for all to ponder, when all is said and done on this turkey, Ya think?
Well, it's a story anyhowz.
I for one am happy with my pretty descent HK AVR354 as a preamp to an outboard amp pressently. And, actually, it sounds pretty darn sweet as a stand alone unit to, running my little Klipsch quintet III system, connected up with my "Anti-cable" wires...really!! Supper clear and musical with nice dynamics and smooth balance, and excellent deail too.
Hey, who needs mondo expensive gear when you can have audiophile mid-fi gear on the cheap?!
I Call it my "AV reference recession package!"
I did, you know, give up on my emotva afterall. Heck, they didn't even ever email/call me that my piece was ready, after being on the list for all this time, either!! |
I agree Emotiva bit the dust big time......even with all the Gorilla net marketing, you cant hide a bad product from being discovered. |
Okay...how about a comment from someone with a dedicated home theater who actually owns the UMC-1?
It seems like plenty of people are forum junkies with no actual experience with the product.
The REAL story is that the UMC-1 is a FANTASTIC item that does a great job. And the real story is also that Emotiva released it FAR too soon and it was seriously in need of debugging. 6 months or so of debugging and this thread wouldn't exist.
I use mine with two BD sources and HDTV via cable. Operation is now perfect after the most recent upgrades. I previously had the Outlaw and this unit's pre-amp sounds better than that one, which I felt was on par with the Marantz.
The UMC-1 has allowed me to match the EQ of the speakers almost perfectly. There is a full 10 band EQ for each channel, so a center channel along with sides and rears can be set correctly. EmoQ works fine, but I see this type of EQ as a starting point only. The only operational flaw now? When you advance to a chapter the audio takes about a 1/2 second to engage. And that's it. I think I can trade that little issue against is easy operation and excellent preamp section!
The people who complain are always the loudest. Then there are people who love to bash a product based on that, even if they've never tried it. The UMC-1 is now ready for prime time and an incredible bargain. I think it's a better product that the 2.5 times more expensive Onkyo unit, which has inferior audio and has it's own issues.
The main thing we can all hope for is that Emotiva learned not to do this again. They HAD to know about many of these issues, but still released the product. That WAS a bad idea, and a sad error for what eventually became a great processor.
The theater!
http://GhostLight.zenfolio.com/p280561067/slideshow
Cheers,
Rob
|
Thx Robbob! Ok, I'll buy one. Dunno what I was thinking... |
Queefee, I don't know what you were thinking either.
I own a UMC-1 and it's working flawlessly in my system. It cost 1200 bucks less than my friends Onkyo processor, and it sounds better. In fact I tried it as a preamp with the Odyssey amp and Merlin speakers with surprisingly good results. No, it's not better than my tube based Stingray, but it's sound is clearly superior to some fairly expensive processors, including the Marantz for 2200 bucks.
I don't doubt some people will have troubles. Every processor does. Emotiva released FAR too early; I think we can agree on that.
But this is a great processor that competes with anything else I've seen/tried. The new firmware seems to have gotten things corrected for most users.
Rob |
Nope, I've reconcidered! I'm bitter, and Emotiva ows me an appology, darn it!!!
...Oh and I want at least 2 professional reviews on this thing, from a reputable AV magazine/reviewer, before I even remotely consider hearing any of this non sense about how this sucker is a "BUY!"
Yep, I want to hear from bonnafied seasoned audiophile AV pros (no offense Robbo), that the UMC-1 is a worthy consideration, and a quality piece before I even think about looking at the UMC-1 as anything other than the wothless-bit-of-a-piece that I've come to see it as!!!!!!!!!!
...And even then, I'll still likely be bitter, as I feel Emotiva owes me!
Heck, I wanna free amp, er at least some free coupons or somethin!...And they can throw in a life-sized 3d poster of Pam Anderson to boot, too, as far as I'm concerened!
...Hey, they never did inform me that my piece was ready, either. I feel used... |
"I don't doubt some people will have troubles. Every processor does" (Robbob)
Every processor does? Ok, let us get the record straight on this one. The Emotiva didn't just have "a trouble, or two". It had a MYRIAD of issues! In fact, there was probably more wrong with the UMC-1 than any single digital product ever released in the last...the last...well heck, THE LAST EVER!!!
Simply go on any chat forum within the last year and go down the list of issues the Umc-1 had upon release. I think it's multiple issue. So, officially, the piece was a disaster when they finally went to market. If I'm not mistaken, it was basically, nearly, non-functional in any kind of multi-switched, custom integration setup, to be true! I mean, unless you used it in straight stereo, you likely either got no sound - er delayed sound, sound that dropped out, no picture, NO EQ, Volume balance problem between inputs, problems swiching between inputs, way too much bass from the sub out put that varied in output, and the list goes on!.. yada, yada
Well you get the idea.
So, while Emotiva (or whatever other behind the scenes company actually builds these things for Emotiva) may or may not have addressed either some or even most of it's issues, bottom line is that it likely STILL HAS ISSUES (without even having used one myself, we all know when we get it home we're still going to run into a problem at this point - that's a given), period! If not, SURELY the av magazines would have thrown out at least "one" measly review, so we could take an official, publisized look at the thing. But, yes, we all know it's not even review worthy at this point, er it would do the company/piece more harm that good, once they tore it appart in a review. Let's be real here.
So I think most of us can agree that it indeed should have never been released, was a total disaster, and certainly couldn't have made the company a dime - after fielding all the returns and canceled orders, and likely slim profit margin on a $700 item, etc.
Consider this, here have been probably hundreds of small time audio companies, who carefully released otherwise outstanding, glitch free, even state of the art electronics over the years, and just as many that went out of business, also. If Emotiva releases more products like this, they might was well file for Chapter 11 now!, and start looking for another investment opportunity - cause this avenue ain't workin!
I for one think it would be awesome if Emotiva went and tried for the UMC-2!!! Then they can tell everyone to expect it in a few months again! WOULDN'T THAT BE A REAL HOOT?! - tOO much!!!
Come on! that would have to be the new single greatest laugh to be had in this business EVER! Ya gotta admit. Come on Emotiva! PLEEEEEEEEEASE? Do it for us! I need a new outlet for my laughter - really. Then I would have likely, truely, seen it all in this business. Really, I just want to know how many people would get back on "the list", after all. Hehe
"Emotiva released FAR too early; I think we can agree on that" (Robbob)
Released far too early?! Surely you must be BS'ing here?! WWWWWHAT!?!....
Ok, what? With the the state of AV electronics litterally transforming yearly, the feature-set the Umc-1 offers predicates that the thing should have been released almost 2 years ago!! And youre suggesting, what that they should have released it some time later this year, or some time in 2011?! Seriously?
We're now already to like HDMI 1.6 (er, whatever) Dolby EQ, Dolby Volume, Pro Logic IIZ(height speakers, dual side speakers, rear height speakres and so on!!) and, like, freakin' Artificial inteligence HDMI switcing (like what Yamaha is offering ) and what not, on-board video calibration features, and so on, etc. And what does the UMC-1 offer? Uh, like last years features, at best! That's what if offers.
Too early? Um, no. NOT to early! - about a year and a half too late, by my calculations.
I think we can all agree on that. |
While many of your comments make sense, their time has past. The UMC-1 functions beautifully now and bests my friend's Onkyo that costs far more and he waited a LONGER time for it to work properly with his Sat. TV connections.
You can READ about all of the complaints endlessly. Processors are complex and hard to use correctly even when they work. I had my own problems with the UMC-1 and all have been corrected.
You make claims that the UMC-1 is outdated. Outdated for WHAT exactly? I have a very good quality projection system and a audio system that can crush cars. Video calibration is perfect. Audio is stunning and all formats are supported for my system. I have a large dedicated theater room with 7 speakers, 3 subs and it's probably better than what most people have. The heart of the system is the UMC-1, which never has a hiccup anymore. It's so good an yet so inexpensive that many people are buying them now until Emotiva releases the next one. The killer is that it pounds better processors because of the sound quality.
You can't lose with the UMC-1, at least not now. There is NO processor at any cost I'd buy today over it. I'd like to suggest actually trying these units out with updated firmware before throwing mud. New features are fun, but they have to translate into actual performance advantages to have merit. The UMC-1 does everything most HT systems would need for quite a while. It is easy and fun to use. It's better looking than other units. And did I mention that the pre-amp section makes other units sound absolutely mid-fi by comparison?
Emotiva had a bad start with the UMC-1, but they're off and running now. BTW, I have about 20K invested in my theater room (not including the music system). I would have bought a better processor if they actually had been better.
Rob |
oh please....
The UMC-1 has very primative room equalization when compared to an Audyssey capable processor. The EQ implementation of the sub (which is the most critical speaker to EQ) is especially primative using fixed EQ bands that are too wide to tame room anomolies.
I have to take your word that all the other problems are fixed...the sound dropouts, the center channel dropout, the random quieting of tv commercials and then not returning the volume to normal when the show starts. All those still existed in the "final production code" and I was running that when I decided I'd had enough and I returned my UMC-1.
Come to think of it, I wonder what happened to my UMC-1 or the others that were returned. I've never noticed an Emotiva refurbished sale??? interesting question....
No...I wouldn't recommend a UMC-1. I'd recommend an integra 40.2 (processor) or a Denon 3311 (receiver) over the UMC-1 as a better solution for anyone who doesn't have an audio tuned room...which is the vast majority of buyers. Tune them with Audyssey and you'll have a far better, far smoother sounding installation with far fewer problems, unless they have all been solved by Emotiva since the "final production software". |
"There is NO processor at any cost I'd buy today over it."
Goober is that you ? |
Goober may work there, you would try to keep your job too lol. |
Oh please?
Have you tried the UMC-1 in a dedicated theater room? How about the Denon 3311? I have...been there, done that. Did you actually try the DTR 40.2? I'm well aquainted with it to say the least. Have you heard one with a good amp?
People should not review gear they have not heard. Oh, and the EQ for the sub is overkill for any good sub and a proper theater room. I didn't need to bother with it. As for auto tuning for rooms, I don't like it. I can always do better on my own as can most people I know. Using starts a baseline at best and the real tweaking for a room begins. Yes, if you don't know how to do it, then go buy a Denon and stay mid-fi.
But the main reason for these devices is to deliver the sonic goods, and the UMC-1 does this better than the Onkyo and FAR better than my now sold Onkyo.
Most of the people who pass judgement on these systems and components never actually compared them. They cruise the forums and pile on about stuff they don't own. In the beginning the UMC-1 was a mess, but it's a great unit and the very effective center of my dedicated theater. If it failed me in any respect it would fly right out with the Onkyo junk.
Rob |
Rob,
Which Onkyo model did this UMC-1 beat in your comparison? Just curious.
Kenobi |
So the Denon is mid fi but the Emotiva is hifi?
You know the AMC Gremiln looked like a good deal at first aswell. |
Kenobi, I had the 40.2 running with Parasound power for a bit. The Onkyo preamp is very old-school Japanese sounding. It lacks depth and weight. My friend runs his theater with the Marantz 8003, which is VASTLY superior in sound to the Onkyo. But even he admits the Emotiva's preamp section is better. BTW, speaker systems involved are Merlin, Magnepan, Focal and Def tech.
Chadnliz, I own Emotiva amps as well as Odyssey, Rotel and the beautiful tube based Manley Stingray II. I've also had Parasound, Rogue and others. I don't comment on gear that I've never heard or heard once at a shop. The gear I discuss has been in my home.
Denon is mid-fi. It's good stuff. But you're being silly if you think a Denon anything will match the Emotiva gear. Using a Rogue Metis preamp the UPA-1 monoblocks held their own against a Odyssey stratos and certainly bested the Rotel 1075. You might also want to read my comparison of how the Emotiva ERC-1 CD player did vs. a far more expensive tube based player. If you don't actually hear this stuff with appropriate associated gear then you have no idea.
Sorry guys. Get back to me when you actually do more than read about these components. Like I said, my system is elaborate. I would not tolerate the UMC-1 if it wasn't excellent. I'm anxious to see Emotiva's full blown processor coming soon.
Rob
Rob |
"I'm anxious to see Emotiva's full blown processor coming soon."
Well you should get that based upon how you feel about the UMC-1. I bet that new one will really be something special.
Hope they beta test it before they release it, unlike the UMC-1. |
I never said I hadnt tried the gear, Denon is midfi, but from what I have seen and heard so is Emotiva. The amps sound cold and dry, the Pro has so many issues its not worth going into, look its nice for the price but lets not lose touch with reality.......it aint hifi.
The Anthem D2V (I do own to this day) has a much better pure sounding preamp and internal DACS, yes it costs but the last few percent is what some pay for.
BTW I dont think either is a real 2 channal pre and thats why I use a dedicated Ref 3 for music side....I also own a 2channel Anthem tube unit, Rotel 1068, Lexicon MC8 aswell.
This isnt my first trip around the block.....I have been swimming these waters for years. |
The Anthem D2v is an expensive unit that I have heard several times. Have you compared it's sound to the Emotiva unit? Have you compared a highly regarded amp like the Odyssey Stratos or Parasound Halo to the Emotiva using a good pre-amp?
Your comments remind me of a friend who was telling me that Definitive Technology "Buys" all of their good reviews. He had heard their big tower speakers many times and they were steely, bright and two dimensional. So, after letting him listen to my new Merlin speakers I then connected my mid-fi Def Tech towers to the Manley Stingray amp and his draw dropped. Not that they were a match for a high end Merlin speaker, but he certainly learned why the speakers are well reviewed. The same goes for many components including the Emotiva amps.
Again, the Emotiva processor's issues are fixed. I own it and the latest firmware upgrades repaired all problems.
It's no fun to consider that a 7000 dollar product sounds no better or inferior to a 1000 dollar product. But it happens all the time in audio.
BTW, I don't consider ANY processor high end gear regardless of cost. The Onkyo, Marantz and Anthem units are not worth their cost (based on my experience with them) when you hear what a company like Emotiva is doing. True, I'm a recent tube convert, so a lot of SS gear sounds mid-fi to me these days.
As for Lexicon, I always thought their gear was pseudo-high-end and laughed hysterically when a dealer told me about the tests of their BD-30 blu-ray player. Getting what you pay for takes a lot of hard work. When someone, who spent a ton of cash on a component hears about something with the same functionality for a lot less, they prefer to assume that theirs is better. Understandable, but it's often not the case. I have an expensive tube based CD player next to a 300 dollar Oppo player that illustrates that point very nicely.
Cheers,
Rob |
Robbob: Your world is a dedicated, acoustically tuned theater....and it's easy to say that you don't believe in or use room equalization. I would love to have that luxury as would most buyers of processors and amplifiers....but that's not our real world. we have real rooms, we have spouses opinions, we have large picture windows, etc. In an untuned environment, I will take a mid-fi Denon over an Emotiva UMC-1 every time...and yes, I had a UMC-1 for many months. I have heard an audyssey tuned room vs EMOQ because I have an Audyssey Sound Equalizer and I could compare the two....there was no comparison in my lousy to average acoustically family room. I now have a denon 4311 on order with Audyssey xt32 which will allow me to equalize multiple subs as well....and I'll sell the sound equalizer since it's no longer needed with Audyssey XT32.
Yes, the UMC-1 sounded quite good when it worked....I sent it back when the return period ended and Emotiva still had a number of outstanding problems that were driving my wife and I nuts. Perhaps they fixed them since then, but I wasn't going to take a risk of wasting my money on a buggy processor. But keep in mind that I was using it with the Audyssey Sound Equalizer...and I doubt that any UMC-1 user is going to buy a sound equalizer and pro install kit for $3000 to make their $699 processor sound good in THEIR real room.
I believe that an Onkyo, Integra, Denon,.... box with Audyssey multEq and certainly one with the more powerful Audyssey Multeq XT will sound much better in the average room than a UMC-1 using or not using Emoq.
Just for completeness, all my tests were done with an NHT Power 5 amp, James sub and NHT speakers all around (2.9's, ac2,L5's) |
"It's no fun to consider that a 7000 dollar product sounds no better or inferior to a 1000 dollar product. But it happens all the time in audio."
Could you give us some examples? |
Yes Lexicon rebadged ther new Oppo, thats old news but I talked about the MC8 that was made years ago and by most accounts was a superb product in its day....try to stay on topic.
I noted the Emotiva was good for the money..........what more do you want? Dont be so insecure. |
GHstudio,
You're correct as I do have a dedicated theater room that has been rebuilt to achieve good sonics. But I've had this debate before and I maintain that I can easily do better tuning a system in ANY room than the various systems out there. So can most of my audiophile friends.
For that reason the automated tuning feature, while nifty, was of no interest to me with ANY of the processors I tried. I evaluated them based on sonics.
If someone lacks the skills to tune a system, then I agree 100% to go with a Denon or Onkyo. But using their auto tune feature utterly failed for me and I could always improve on those settings with ease.
All of that aside, the UMC-1 has a superior pre-amp section and the issues have been resolved. Again, I have a system that represents a big investment in money and time. If the UMC-1 was never debugged and sonically poor I'd toss it on the trash.
Rob |
Hi James
To name expensive products that fall short of less expensive ones is not hard to do. I recently posted a shootout between CD players costing over 3K vs. a Oppo player that cost 300 dollars.
In the world of speakers I've heard models costing over 10K that I didn't find worth 10 dollars, but to name them would be trolling.
You can't "buy" the best systems. They have to be assembled with years of listening experience and an ear for synergy.
Rob |
Chadnliz, have you listened to the UMC-1 vs. the Onkyo and Marantz models that cost many times the price? If so was it with the same amps?
I'm only asking because I have heard these products. I have no stock in any of them. If the Marantz, Denon or Onkyo were better I'd say so and STILL be happy with the UMC-1 since it does a very good job for my application. So I'll score it simply:
Ease of Use:
All three units are a pain to set up, even if you know how to tune for a room yourself. But any of them can be tuned better by ear if you spend the time. And it's time well spent.
Ease of Use using the Auto-Tune systems:
I felt Denon got it much closer to what I'd finally wanted.
Sound quality:
There is no question in my mind (or any of my friends who own the other models) that the UMC-1 is superior. It's even surprisingly good in two channel audio!
Cosmetics:
The UMC-1 is one of the few units around that isn't covered with a bazillion buttons, looking like a 90's receiver or Bob Carver's nightmare. It's low profile and elegant.
Remote:
The Emotiva all metal remote looks the best, but it's horrible in use. I like the Marantz remote.
As for Lexicon, I'm not a fan. What they did with the Oppo reflected a way of doing business that some installer friends had told me about for years and my impressions based on listening only added to that. Still, the move with the Oppo redress was awful.
Rob |
PS: No one should take this too seriously! It's just audio gear and most of us will have totally different stuff in 5 years anyway.
Except for my Merlin speakers, which I may be buried with!
Rob |
Not everyone has access to every specific model of every ilk so no I didnt do a direct comparison but have heard it and to me its cold and sterile and doesnt involve me.
I said its good for the money and thats all I am going to say. |
Well...I have directly compared the Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-2 to some fairly good SS amps. You can do an search and see my comparison between the Emotiva XPA-3 and Rotel 1090, Odyssey Stratos and so on.
I have always wondered how people judged amps as anything without hearing them through several pre-amps.
Other insane items from Emotiva are their CD player which I also recently compared to the Rega Saturn (and others) and their USP-1 preamp, which lost in it's shootout with a Rogue Metis tube pre-amp, but not by much.
Obviously much of this is subjective. What sounds cold to you may sound detailed and accurate to someone else. I don't use the Emotiva gear for music much, but for home theater it's as good as anything I've tried. As I said, I've abandoned SS completely for amp/preamp on music.
Rob |
"Other insane items from Emotiva are their CD player which I also recently compared to the Rega Saturn (and others) and their USP-1 preamp, which lost in it's shootout with a Rogue Metis tube pre-amp, but not by much."
It seems many things associated with emo are thought of as insane. I have heard the sauce used at emu-fest also described as insane by "wide ranging" Dan. So insane isn't all it is cracked up to be. |
Well, James....in this case insane refers to the fact that Emotiva has several items on the market that are priced at a 3rd of what they should be.
The vast majority of those who bash companies like Emotiva, Outlaw and several other direct-to-buyer outfits, reject them with little to no real experience.
Years ago I owned a fairly good Parasound amp. My friend went out an bought an Outlaw amp for 40% less. Though I knew the paper specs were impressive I had faith that my Parasound would be better than the "bargain." It was poor logic as Outlaw's business model was to match or best amps like mine for less by not supporting ads and a dealer network. Of course these days Outlaw gets a good deal of respect. Emotiva is in that same camp, slowly gaining ground and is slowly pushing the boundaries of what some call "mid-fi." For home theater it's not just a good value, it's an insane one!
Rob |
3 times? Now your just blindly blowing smoke up everyones ass, Emotiva makes a product for X amount and knows it is worth Y and they price it accordingly. To act as if Emotiva is some sort of charitable outfit concerned first with giving away product and profit second is just proof you know nothing about business.
Emotiva is surviving and maybe even thriving because it understands the value of its product pure and simple. There are 2 ways to go out of business, charge too much or charge too little......its obvious they are priced correctly. Its obvious your a fan and thats great but lets not get crazy here. |
Just out of curiosity, Rob when you say that you and your audiophile friends can "tune" better than a well-implemented auto-room EQ ie. Audessey, what exactly are you referring to?
To my knowledge, there aren't many transparent and flexible parametric EQs out there in the high end audio market. You couldn't be talking about using a graphic EQ with hard-coded frequency bands and no adjustable Q. So what type of "tuning" are you describing? |
Its only opinion tuning unless you are prepared to show detailed graphs from REQ Wizard or something of that nature. Just "liking" something doesnt mean squat. |
I've used the best processors from Denon, Marantz and Onkyo. The Denon and Onkyo units lived in my systems. I've also heard plenty of other units out there. I think they're all pretty good, but generally can't do analogue 2 channel very well. So what? That's what my tube gear is for.
Fast forward to the UMC-1, which not only sounded better on two channel music, but also less harsh and abrasive when watching movies (to my shock). Since I spent money making my dedicated theater room reasonably flat and free of harsh reflections, it's easy not to like Onkyo for example.
Now....as to using the mic and auto calibration on these units: They work "okay" at best and never really get it right. In fact I've NEVER heard an automated EQ system get it right in any room. BTW, my friend owns a shop and does installations. It's his bread & butter to do better than the these automated programs and he's well paid for it. FYI, he's done some work for some pretty heavy music industry clients in custom theaters far beyond mine in scope. Audessey is not part of the job. He's expected to do better.
Using the UMC-1 I can customize the levels, EQ and delay on each speaker; it takes time and careful experimentation to get correct. It also means using many reference sources and day after day of reevaluations. My friends and I are fairly high end users with this gear. It's okay to use the gee-wiz features on these processors, but you're kidding yourself if you think someone can't do better.
Now....using the Denon's gee-wiz system I was able to get closer FASTER to the final level of optimization. That's it's only value, as a STARTING point. If you want to get 40-70% of the system potential then rely entirely on Audessey. There is NO substitute to carefully tuning a system over time, which also includes tedious speaker placement, room treatments system matching. The very nature of the mics typically employed (and their placement) is the first of many problems that make Audessey (and all of it's cousins)a dorm room toy on the same level as sound bars and cheap tube amps for Ipods.
It's only natural to believe that these systems "get it right" since that's so much easier than carefully tweaking your system to an even higher level. If it sounds good to you (as users proclaim) than mission accomplished via Onkyo and all the rest. But it sure didn't sound good enough to me or my friends and quite a few others.
Cheers,
Rob |
Of course setting up any audio system starts with the best speaker placement you can get, and well thought out room treatments. Audessey or any other manual or automatic EQ is assumed to take place after all of the physical acoustics work is done.
"Using the UMC-1 I can customize the levels, EQ and delay on each speaker"
Is this the "tuning" that you are talking about doing? You are using an 11 band graphic EQ and calling that room tuning? You think you can beat Audessey's algorithms with an 11 band graphic EQ? |
"You think you can beat Audessey's algorithms with an 11 band graphic EQ?"
Well to paraphrase Lonnie (Lenny) you can only get so much for $699. We should appreciate the "brain trust" at emo-porium for their honesty. |
My friends and I don't "think" we can beat Audessey. We know we can as we've easily improved on it time after time. It's not even CLOSE to what we were able to finally achieve after taking real time to dial in the system.
Again, it's EASY to accept that these automated systems get it right. Why think otherwise when it will just lead to a lot of work? I have heard probably more than 50 high end theater systems in homes over the last 5 years and not one used Audessey (or any automated settings) except for the initial set ups.
Oh, and you can't just get the "best speaker position and well thought our room treatments" and then expect to simply tune from there. You have to see-saw back and forth. A simple change to my center channel high freq. curve let to a change in it's previously "perfect" placement.
I love the idea of a automated home theater system. It's certainly a great idea for the masses. But it's amateur hour for serious systems, at least for now. Most users actually employ a mic that costs less than 20 bucks! It's laughable. As I said, you may employ these systems for a head-start, but getting that ideal tune takes a lot of work and time.
Sorry....no fun hearing it, but it's true.
Rob |
I dont think the Anthem D2V's calibration is at all "amateur hour" after doing 7 mic positions the only thing I found I wanted to adjust was a little bump in center channel level.
I do agree in general that most are a waste of time and some only get you maybe half way there but Anthem is a different league starting first and foremost with its carefully calibrated, matched and high quality microphone.
Up thill then I had got by just fine for over 15 years and maybe 9 different systems in that period.
If your room is good, treated and speakers are well positioned a rat shak SPL meter and your own ear is about all you need. Even a second system I have of Rotel seperates is great with just bass and treble trim for all speakers so 11 bands is a bit overkill IMO but tweekers surely enjoy all that freedom. |
Well, I have limited experience with the Anthem 2, especially in setting one up. It's a very good sounding unit.
Most people won't admit that "most" of the automatic EQ systems don't work well. It's a shame because even a 400 dollar Denon receiver can do FAR better than they realize.
I'd also like to point out that one setting does not work across the board anyway. Watching The Expendibles I quickly realized that a quick adjustment in bass and center made for a more enjoyable listening experience. And the remastered Treasure of Sierra Madre benefited from additional tweaks while Avatar liked my standard settings just fine.
Getting back to room EQ via the unit, when my friend does an installation he uses a directional dialogue mic (the sort used on movie sets) to reduce errors.
So back to the original point:
I have found, after a short wait for an update, that the UMC-1 is a match for virtually every processor I've heard. At the very least it's sonically superior to the Onkyo and Marantz units, which cost much more. Early adopters certainly felt burned, but that's history now. The unit is a fantastic buy to say the least. Emotiva is also poised to release a higher end processor shortly. It has a even better pre-amp section and even more bells and whistles. Buyers of the UMC-1 get 50% off!
So I'm pretty happy with Emotiva to say the least!
Rob |
"The unit is a fantastic buy to say the least. Emotiva is also poised to release a higher end processor shortly. It has a even better pre-amp section and even more bells and whistles. Buyers of the UMC-1 get 50% off!"
Hopefully "wide ranging" daN doesn't use the public as beta testers this time around. Perhaps some more work on tonewinners part this time around will produce respectable results. After all the issues the LMC-1 one had, to release the UMC the way they did tells you more about the "brain trust" over there than any forum posting ever could. |
James, do what I did. Wait until the dust settles before buying a processor from anyone. 4-6 months is usually fine. I usually do that with ANY gear of this type, even DSLRs. By doing that I ended up with an incredible processor for 1/4 the cost of my previous one and no issues.
Rob |
"My friends and I don't "think" we can beat Audessey. We know we can as we've easily improved on it time after time."
You never really answered my question above. Are you "beating" Audessey with an 11 band graphic EQ, with fixed frequencies and no adjustable Q? |
You never really answered my question above. Are you "beating" Audessey with an 11 band graphic EQ, with fixed frequencies and no adjustable Q?>>>
Easily. And I'll make it very simple. I can almost always improve on what the the Integra processor can do without even touching the EQ. The poor thing can't even get the basic settings for volume right, almost always overcooking the bass and usually the rears as well. Audessey can't even come close to what an experienced set of ears can do.
Frankly, it's so well known by the installers I've spoken to in NY, that I'm surprised anyone is even thinking that automated EQ gets it right.
I'll make this statement perfectly clear: If you rely 100% on these automated systems you're not hearing everything your system is capable of, regardless of the room.
Rob |
My issue is that the Head of the company "bIg?" dan Laughman releasing a product that he had to know had (and for many still has) multiple issues.
You know Rob how many issues the unit had upon release and dany boy and his folks over there claimed it ran beautifully. Never once has he showed sincere contrition for unleashing a bug riddled product on the public. I feel he has contempt for his customers, as he feels since he has tonewinner products at cheap prices he will always have a market share.
From what I have heard they are still working on the code. This is a joke, and sometimes being the cheapest get you an arrogant, P.T Barunm like owner. Buy what you will it is your money. I wouldn't give a Schmendrick like Laughman a penny of my money. |
James, I have no idea of what you're talking about, but if you rely on forums nonsense that's what you'll end up with.
So here's some "truth" to chew on:
1) Before I ordered my UMC-1 I contacted Emotiva and they outlined the problems that still existed for some users. They were effecting mainly Sat. TV customers and some cable users. They even told me which cable boxes they were still working on; it was only a few.
2) None of problems lined up with my cable & Blu-ray sources so I ordered the unit.
3) It came and it had a couple of bugs. Occasionally it would not power down. Twice it made a loud static sound. Skipping chapters on DVD's would leave the audio dropped out for about 1/2 second before it locked.
4) Emotiva was 100% up front about the existing issues and the firmware update a few weeks later did the rest.
5) Discussions with the folks with Emotiva and my e-mailed questions were ALWAYS handled properly and in a friendly manner. This was not the case with Onkyo BTW.
6) The Onkyo unit that I had (costing three times the UMC-1)had bugs of it's own that they never cleared up (including audio drop outs and video signal lock issues) and they took far longer to fix.
7) After owning 6 processors, the UMC-1 is the first where I was able to speak to the engineers directly who were working on the issues and knew the facts.
8) My UMC-1 works flawlessly using Comcast HD cable, PS3 Blu-Ray, Sony TV, Oppo BD and also occasionally for music.
A LOT of products have issues when they're released. I have no idea why you want to call anyone names. If the unit had issues I'd be all over it. I'm sorry. It works well and has only had a few bugs to cure. I have invested large amounts of money into my theater right down to installing a beam and special treatments. If the Onkyo or Marantz were better, I'd own them.
If anyone is local to Carmel NY and would like a demo of this system using the UMC-1 I'd be happy to show it off. My system clobbers most small theaters!
James, I put my money where my mouth is. But I don't buy blindly. I did my homework on the UMC-1 and waited for the dust to settle. And I got a better processor by doing so. I plan to do the same with their higher end model in a few months....and with 50% off!
Cheers,
Rob |
"James, I have no idea of what you're talking about, but if you rely on forums nonsense that's what you'll end up with."
So other owners who posted their finding on a public forum are nonsensical. Your findings however are totally sensible.
"Emotiva was 100% up front about the existing issues and the firmware update a few weeks later did the rest."
Not true and you know it.
"After owning 6 processors, the UMC-1 is the first where I was able to speak to the engineers directly who were working on the issues and knew the facts."
So you spoke with the engineers in China (Tonewinner?)
"If anyone is local to Carmel NY and would like a demo of this system using the UMC-1 I'd be happy to show it off. My system clobbers most small theaters!"
Wow, that is impressive. Are you going to buy the Emo C.I series which is supposed to clobber skywalker ranch ?
"So here's some "truth" to chew on:"
Truth is in the eye of the beholder. You want to cheerlead for emo, good for you. You do put your money where your mouth is if you own the products. As I said I find the owner to be a huckster in what he says. Throw all the heartburn inducing bbq's you want, doesn't change what you are. |
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James, when I owned the Onkyo there were even more complaints. They were resolved for anyone who waited. MOST UMC-1 owners seem to be quite happy after the updates. So what are you so upset about? Don't buy it, but don't attack something you have no current inexperience with.
"Emotiva was 100% up front about the existing issues and the firmware update a few weeks later did the rest."
Not true and you know it."
Sorry, James. But I had three discussions on the phone with the folks at Emotiva. Read the forums and you'll learn that they actually pick up the phone.
"After owning 6 processors, the UMC-1 is the first where I was able to speak to the engineers directly who were working on the issues and knew the facts."
So you spoke with the engineers in China (Tonewinner?)
Now you're being silly.
"If anyone is local to Carmel NY and would like a demo of this system using the UMC-1 I'd be happy to show it off. My system clobbers most small theaters!"
Wow, that is impressive. Are you going to buy the Emo C.I series which is supposed to clobber skywalker ranch ?
"So here's some "truth" to chew on:"
Truth is in the eye of the beholder. You want to cheerlead for emo, good for you. You do put your money where your mouth is if you own the products. As I said I find the owner to be a huckster in what he says. Throw all the heartburn inducing bbq's you want, doesn't change what you are.>>
Truth is what IS. It's not open to interritation. Does the UMC-1 work well now? That's the original question. I gave an answer. It made you unhappy. Care to explain why? James, the truth is that one of us has a dedicated home theater room that was rebuilt to accommodate a screen over 10 feet wide, 4 subs and HD projection. The system is beautifully run by the UMC-1. I've posted pics of it. So anytime you actually want to make a valid point based on tests of the current UMC-1 vs. other brands, we'll all be waiting.
You seem to want to troll, so I agree....you've beaten the horse and can have the last word. I'm screening The African Queen on Blu-Ray this evening with my lovely wife.
Cheers and good night,
Rob |
I've followed the threads on this unit on a variety of sites - as I was initially very enthusiastic about it's potential - my conclusion was that I wouldn't touch with a 40 ft. pole. The reality is that they use their customers as beta testers & charge them full price for the privilege of owning a malfunctioning buggy unit. Not a company I want to business with. |
Just received the UMC 1. I absolutely love it. Features I look for, top rate sound quality & no glitches so far(crossing fingers). As of now I am loving this Emo gear.
XPA 5 & UMC 1 is a super deal! |
