Its obvious the truth is somewhere in the middle of some extremes told here, it was and still is a flawed product with a poor release and questionable R&D that allowed this ever delayed product to STILL be released with bugs and flaws. There is no debating that.
But on the other hand some are appearing to go to extremes on slamming this company, that perhaps has learned a valuable lesson and has cleaned up its act.
So lets not suggest it was anything other than a flawed release, lets also not suggest that its some giant killing revolutionary product that slays anything in its path. But lets also find time to champion a company who atleast has attempted to make a reasonable product at a reasonable price and hope they will avoid troublsome issues in the future. |
I agree with Chadnliz. As a result of the extreme positions, after two pages of responses, I still don't have a good feel for the two most important questions: (1) is the current product bug-free enough to be worth considering; and (2) how good is the sound? |
Chadnliz,
That's a reasonable way to look at it. All I can say is what I experienced after owning Bot the Onkyo & Marantz processors. It's fair to say that THEY are not giant killers. ALL had bugs. NONE had as many bugs as the UMC-1 when it was released. I've never paid more than 2700.00 (give or take a few bucks) for a new processor.
And with all of that said I can honestly report that in my system using Comcast HD cable, PS3, Oppo DVD BD, Apple TV I have zero issues. Even the friend who bought my Onkyo agrees the UMC-1 sounds better.
Does that make it a giant killer? Of course not. None of these processors are ever going to be as good as my Manley or Rogue preamps. But I am a guy who actually OWNS the gear. I toss out what doesn't meet my demands and cry loudly if I think a product is flawed.
So....my statement is this: Anyone looking at the current Onkyo or Marantz processors should try to find someone with the UMC-1 so they can hear it for themselves. If you want to spend 4-7K then I expect you'd be getting a far better pre-amp section in the bargain and that's a different animal.
Thanks for the measured reply.
Rob |
Mateored,
The UMC-1 sounds about the same as an Onkyo or Marantz processor in home theater applications.
HOWEVER.....If you plan to rely heavily on automated EQ I believe that the Marantz is strongest in that area. If you're experienced enough to set up the settings on your own I seriously doubt anyone could tell the UMC-1 apart from most processors while watching Avatar.
HOWEVER Part 2.....On music material including 2 channel audio listening the UMC-1 rises above the others. And I'll also include Denon in that pack. The UMC-1 is an unusually musical processor, so much so that I even tried using with my superb Merlin speakers.
HOWEVER Part 3.....If the UMC-1 is equal or a bit better than processors in the 2-3K range, then I'd really suggest holding of until their new unit is released in the next few months. It will have bugs, but probably less than the UMC-1 did when it was released. I'd give it 2-3 months and get that unit which will most probably BE the so called "giant killer."
Never believe people who haven't owned the gear and are using it currently.
Good luck,
Rob |
Rob is correct. I just switched out the Onkyo for the UMC and there was a pretty big difference. Ive had some really nice gear & some budget stuff, this UMC 1 & XPA 5 combo is the real deal. I already put the XPA 5 through tests over this past year, and I have just loved. Even did a superb job through some Magnepan 1.6's. Thats what twisted my arm to try the UMC 1. Now that the bugs are mostly under control, I pulled the trigger.
Theres no doubt the UMC 1 is MUCH better then the Onkyo for 2 channel, and is at least as good for Theater, if not better. Much more detail, and honestly, at least with my setup, Ive possibly never heard a deeper sounstage. Specially since I'm only using Paradigm S2's right now, and a svs ultra sub. Not exactly top speakers, but they sound as good as Ive heard them using the Emo stuff.
For some comparisons, heres some quick ratings based on sound quality on prepros Ive owned the last 4-5 years:
2 channel Home Theater
Anthem 50 8.9 8.5
Bryston 1.7 8.2 7.5
Onkyo 906 5 6.5
onkyo with xpa 5 6.5 7.5
Rotel 1068 7.5 7.5
Emo UMC 1 7.8 7.5
Krell showcase 8 8 |
"Never believe people who haven't owned the gear and are using it currently."
What if a person who has never owned it (which may speak to their good sense) finds and reports on the experiences of others who have owned it. Rob you don't have to own something to comment on it, think about it.
"If the UMC-1 is equal or a bit better than processors in the 2-3K range"
You are the only person to make this claim...
"I'd really suggest holding of until their new unit is released in the next few months. It will have bugs, but probably less than the UMC-1"
You are that confident in emo that even with two processor debacles that they will do it again ? Why would saying this inspire anybody in a right state of mind to buy the xmc ?
"I'd give it 2-3 months and get that unit which will most probably BE the so called "giant killer."
So why wouldn't emo just wait the three months and release it bug free ? |
I am not so sure that your prepared to be objective Rob, you are already saying you sure this new unit (with bugs...that in itself is an amazing lack of confidence) but still you seem certain its going to be some "giant killer"
Sorry but your shilling before its even out, it is apparent your not prepared to be nuetral to me.
As shaneful as Emo's last release was it will be the untimate show of greed and arrogance if the new unit has ANY bugs whatsoever, any serious company will learn from and refuse to repeat a flawed product launch. I look forward to final judgement on exactly what kind of company we are dealing with here. If its a great release then bravo and the shame will fade in time, if it is however yet another arrogant misguided premature and lengthy delayed launch of a subpar product they deserve to fail and we should not slow the demise down with explanatory excuses and slide of hand positive forum marketing, they should die the death they desrve. The have recieved their get out of jail free card, if it happens again we should execute.
Trying to make a product that is good for the money is a great goal but its worthless to only have good intentions, the proof is in performace as promised.........thats not unreasonable to expect, or demand.
Emotiva I am talking to you, you have one more chance to right the ship................are you listening?
Time will tell I suppose.................tick tock! |
No processor I have used....not the Marantz, Onkyo or Outlaw were released bug free.
In fact it's nearly impossible to do so and to suggest otherwise points to a seriously ignorant buying public at this level. There is simply no way to build a processor that will be 100% computable with all sources. Cable and Sat. TV sources are the most problematic as they are a constantly moving target. My own cable provider has upgraded my box 3 times in two years. The 2nd upgrade caused all kinds of issues with my Onkyo. Then there are hundreds of other sources/gear which fail to follow exacting standards.
My Marantz had three times more firmware upgrades than the UMC-1.
We can go back and forth with this all day. The bottom line TODAY is that the UMC-1 is so slayer of giants, but I know it's superior to the Onkyo, Marantz and Denon units. Problems from months ago don't interest me, but having a great sounding stable processor does. If you own most of the other brands you paid MOST of your money for advertising. And if you're seriously looking for something better than a UMC-1, don't be silly by suggesting Marantz, Denon or Onkyo. They are generally harsher sounding units.
The rest of the comments here are old news and science fiction.
Rob |
There has not been any Science fiction, stop shilling please.
I have nver had one bug in a Anthem, Rotel, Lexicon, Onkyo or Denon unit. Lesser recievers from Sony (2), Onkyo (3), Pioneer (2) have never had an issue either. A firmware update was usually a new feature not a fix for a bug so your comfort and dismissal of flaws is laughable and should simply not happen.
I am thankful Emo isnt in the medical business because this business model could be life and death.
Does Emo pay you by the post for your blind loyalty?
I dont think Outlaw, marantz and current Onkyo offerings are any better or worse and have not suggested either way, the Emo is a sub $1000 unit in cost and IMO performance and is priced correctly........and as a bonus bugs and glitches are free of charge, what a deal! |
"And if you're seriously looking for something better than a UMC-1, don't be silly by suggesting Marantz, Denon or Onkyo."
Yea, how could D&M holdings ever produce a better sounding and performing pre-pro than Tonewinner. |
Chandnliz, I was mistaken in thinking you were a reasonable fellow. You persist in bashing a product you don't own. Furthermore, all of the proof about the UMC-1 CURRENT status is easily read on the Emo forums, but apparently the truth is of no concern to you.
1) Please define the current bugs that make my UMC-1 a problem.
2) Onkyo and Marantz had bugs when released. In fact the Marantz would power down only when unplugged when I first got it! They fixed it quickly though. I owned the Rotel for a short time. It had what we call "Sony sound" and I quickly dumped it.
But I'm glad you pointed out that the Onkyo, Marantz offerings are no better, though they are far more expensive. I'd love to pit the current Anthem against the UMC-1 for overall sound quality.
Please grow up and stop accusing people of "shilling." I don't work for Emotiva. I sell yachts and own a website to keep me knee deep in toys.
Based on the e-mails I've gotten (thanks) I'll let two people who don't own the gear currently take their last shots. It's clear what their motives are, I agree.
Cheers,
(and see my system!)
Rob |
So lets get things straight, nobody can HEAR, EXPERIENCE, be informed, or eductated on any given item of audio if they dont own it? I am thankful for information these days that allow light to shine on dirty little secrets in this hobby, it has saved me from potentially being very disapointed with how I spend my money.
Come to think of it I dont own lawn darts but know they are dangerous (or am I assuming too much?).
There are these things called friends, its a fantastic concept, you see it allows you to visit their homes and experience things they own............you should look into it.
I am oerfectly reasonable but you go too far and you dont even see it in yourself, you insult others with claims of "science fiction" and you hang onto this foolish notion that nobody can possibly hear a audio product they dont own, ears actually do work outside of your own home, I promise its true!
We get your a fan, we can see how much of a crush you have on Emo and that you are a true believer, just because others are not doesnt allow you to mock them, accuse them of making things up or being immature, all of which you have done over and over I might add. Sometimes you get the reply and attitude you deserve. When people point out this company and it flaws you simply say "everyone does it" and thats just not true...........that my friend could for certain be a claim of "science fiction".
You can pick and choose your reality any way you wish but the bottom line is they have made serious mis-steps, may still be making them and attempt to produce a midfi product at a midfi price, non of those are insults they are simple facts. I do think on paper what they are doing is a good thing, they just need to do much better at it.
Have a happy holiday, and quit taking this so personal, its not your company or your problem but if I and others can help others avoid a possible problem I am proud to do my part. Ir Emo wants to shut me and others up just make a product that works as it should when it leaves the factory, seems painfully simple to me. |
Jim, I can't get this message to you (keeps coming back even though I'm hitting return with correct address), so I'm posting here and ignoring all of the nonsense above.
Check the UMC-1 forum on the Emo site and contact owners about any bugs still existing. I think you'll be pleased to see what the truth is. Everything else is old news, but take a look for yourself. You're in NJ, which is not too far. No need to take anyone's "word." You can see/hear for yourself.
And no, I have yet to hear ANY processor that is audiophile quality and I've heard units costing in the 6K range. Again, listen for yourself and decide. I own a tube based system along with Merlin speakers for music listening as I never expected a theater system to get it done right. You'd need to move BIG speakers for that to work and I have a dedicated room. You can try me at Thomas35s5@aol.com as well. If you post a query on the MJ Sub elsewhere I can respond and I'm sure others will respond, but a quick answer is this: The MJ and REL subs are about equal, but I find them best for music. A big SVS Ultra sub is great for theater, better even than the Fathom 13", but the Fathom 13" does music better. If you can only go with ONE sub get the Fathom. If you want the best of both worlds get the SVS Ultra and add the MJ or REL for music.
Happy Festivus!
Rob |
Can't live with yourself if you don't get in the last word (and version of reality) can you.... |
Robs findings are like mine. I even agree on the sub comments. SVS is a killer home theater sub. Als good with near full range speakers....Not so good with monitors IMO
I have the older SVS Ultra 12/2 which is still there best sub IMO. I was told by Ron at SVS the 13 Ultras were better then the single 12 ultra's, but not the dual 12's. I was waiting for the dual 13 version Ron told me about...but SVS changed direction and are going smaller.....still producing great bass.
The SVE 12/2 Ultra is insane! Great Bargain if you can find one. Take off the bottom stand, flip drivers forward. Buy some JL audio W7 12" Mesh grill covers. An amzing dual sub! |
