Brownsfan,
Thanks for the clearly described differences of these two amplifiers by the same builder. Definitely "good" vs "stunningly good".
Charles, |
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Interesting comments on the Inspire KT66, as I actually preferred the 6SN7 input tube to the 6SL7 on mine. Also, Dennis recommended trying out the the Shuguang KT88 in this amp - his actual words were that his 'jaw dropped', so looking forward to obtaining some in the near future. |
Anybody actually tried one of the Antique Sound Labs amps? |
Digital3:
Decware Super Zen? Really? 2 Watts into an 8 ohm, 92 db speaker like the De Capo?
You think so?... |
Speavler, Thanks for the comments. The 6SN7 I used was a Class A Sophia, vs a cheapo $15 6SL7. Please let me know how the KT88s work out for you. If one could address the soft muddy bottom end, this could be a pretty nice amp. I really liked what I heard north of the mid bass. It did work a little better with my 94dB efficient Triumphs, but not nearly good enough. I'd like to hand on the the inspire if I can make it sing. |
08-28-14: Brownsfan
Please let me know how the KT88s work out for you. If one could address the soft muddy bottom end, this could be a pretty nice amp. I really liked what I heard north of the mid bass. I don't think so Brownsfan, at least not in my room with my speakers, it didn't even come close to being a pretty nice amp. I really wanted to like it too, mainly due to it's ability to play with different tubes. Mine was the KT88 version and came with a pair of Gold Lions. I also tried 6V6's. I used 6SN7 and 6SL7's and had slightly better results with the 6SL7's. The soft, muddy bottom end and rolled off high's weren't the only problems with my speakers though (91 dB, 8 ohm). The soundstage was the size of a postage stamp, I never heard my system sound so constricted. Dennis was sure the amp was damaged in shipping, so I sent it back for him to test, nope, not broken. I really loved working with Dennis, his energy is contagious! He worked with me on custom colors and tubes, but I just could not get that little amp to open up and sing. He refunded my money, so in the end it was a fun experiment, but just wasn't meant to be, for me anyway. As for KT88's Dennis seemed to like the Northern Electric version, but I wasn't going to spring for $180 per tube unless the sound had more potential to start with. |
Tube rolling can result in sound performance improvements but won't make up for inadequate transformers and power supplies. I believe that this accounts for the big difference between the Dynamo and Dennis Had amplifiers. Brownsfan, does the Dynamo feel heavier or more substantial?
Charles, |
JMC and Charles, I noticed a substantially better stage with the dynamo. I'm inclined to agree with Charles regarding the transformers. I can grab one end of the inspire and easily pick it up with one hand. Not so the dynamo. I didn't weigh them, but it seems the dynamo is much heavier.
I am willing to hear Speavlers comments once he tries the KT88s, but I also am not going to spend much money on tubes for this amp.
Straight up, as shipped the dynamo is much better and doesn't require a preamp. Since I already have the inspire, I would keep it around for a change of flavor if its limitations could be inexpensively addressed. |
Hi Brownsfan,
I suspected that was a major difference between the two amplifiers. It would certainly explain the Had amp's failure you heard with bass frequencies and dynamic symphonic music.Wimpy power supplies /transformers are a recipe for disappointment. |
Brownsfan, Charles, what tubes are simpatico with the 34se. |
Mikirob,
I don't have the Dynamo amplifier(I own the Frankenstein MK II). Brownsfan's unit is brand new, he hasn't gotten to the tube rolling stage yet. |
Thanks Charles, based on Brownsfan review I just pulled the trigger on a Dynamo 34 SE myself. They will be in the office system with the M-Lore, 95db, 8ohm nominal, source is Sony S9000ES, Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC.
As soon as my new house is finished (late spring), I intend to purchase the Coincident 300b unit you have. Might go with Daedalus, Coincident, Devore 096, Line Magnetic 755, or something like that. |
Hi Mikirob,
I trust Brownsfan's ears/impressions and believe that you'll be very pleased with your Dynamo-M Lore pairing.
You have a very good list of speaker choices, the Frankenstein should match well with any of them. The Line Magnetic 755 field coil is intriguing.
Charles, |
To address the original question, IMO the greatest bargain in SET amps is one you build yourself. SETs are very simple circuits, even a beginner can make one. How it sounds will depend greatly on the power supply and the output transformers you select, but if you can solder two wires together you can build an SET. Since you will be building it with your own labor, without the need to make a profit, it will undoubtedly be cost-effective as well.
If it seems like I'm always pushing DIY here, well it's because I've gone from buying my gear to building it myself, and not only is it a very rewarding hobby, I've been able to make equipment that I never could have afforded to buy commercially. Just planting the idea. |
Mikirob, I had a feeling that dynamo wasn't going to last long. I assure you I have no connection with the seller.
As Charles stated, the dynamo is brand new. My rectifier tube is arcing on start up, so it looks like I will be looking into rectifiers sooner rather than later. As I have stated, my dynamo is far from burned in now, and it is clear the tubes aren't the best in the world. Neither simpatico nor gemutlich. I'm thinking I will talk to Brent Jesse on the EL34s, after I get a few more hours of burn in. I take it he likes the Groove Tubes, which are probably in a reasonable price range for the dynamo. Where this thing ends up with the right tubes and some hours on the transformers remains to be seen. As I have listened to this amp, I have thought back to my first integrated amp, which was a 1972 vintage ss Kenwood for which I payed something like $360. It is just astonishing how much value the dynamo represents as compared to most of the stuff I have owned in the past.
You are going to love the Frankenstiens, They are special. |
Ait: I am a fan of DIY, too, but not without guidance. I built and am running a Bottlehead Seduction phono stage and while I don't have a lot to compare it to, it sounds great. I have thought of building one of the Bottlehead amps but they are truly "flea watt" and I don't know if they have enough juice to drive my De Capo's. But if you know of other SET kits I'd be glad to know about them.
As things now stand I'm leaning toward one of the Decware amps. They seem to have an avid following and the prices are reasonable. I basically can't spend any more money than what I'd get for my current Manley gear. |
Brownsfan, Charles, thanks for all your wonderful conversations on the
A'gon about Coincident SET 300B as well as this Dynamo newcomer.
The rectifier tube is already upgraded with a Upscale NOS Phillips. I
checked my tube stash and found a matched pair of Sylvania VT 229 SL7
from the 1940s. I'm already doing some research on re-tubing the Dynamo.
Some choices might be the Psvane Black Treasure, their newer stuff as
well. Perhaps the SED Winged C. I have some new Reflector 6L6 6n3c that
I like in another amp, that might be interesting provided I can use those
types in this amp. I'll likely contact Brent Jesse as well as Jim McShane
and Mr. Blume. If you have any further suggestions please post. Best, Rob |
Hi Rebbi,
I wish you well and hope you get the same good results with the Decware as Brownsfan has with his Dynamo.Good Luck,
Charles, |
Ait ;
I have thought the same thing concerning the DIY route . But some of us are just not able to do it . :-(
Happy Tunes |
Mikirob, I thought about the old SEDs as well. I heard them in a friend's
Manley and they sounded pretty good. It would be interesting to hear Israel's
thoughts on tubes for the dynamo, so if you contact him, please let me know
what he says. PM if you like. I also thought about the Psvane blacks. Sophia
just released an EL34 a couple days ago. I thought I'd wait long enough to
see what people are saying about that tube before spending a lot on
something else. Good NOS EL34s are getting a little scarce, and pricey.
My Franks came with NOS GE 5U4GBs. I thought about trying one one those
in the dynamo, and I also have a couple of JJ EL34s that came with the inspire
amp, so no harm in trying them. I think they might come from the same
plant as the Groove Tubes, not sure.
My guess is those Sylvanias will be a substantial upgrade over the stock
tubes.
Charles has been a faithful Apostle of the Coincident gear for a long time,
while being very knowledgable about other gear as well. He is a gentleman
and a scholar-- a real asset to this forum. In addition to the reviews on
Coincident gear, which aren't all that plentiful, reading his posts really
convinced me to take the plunge on my CSL preamp. Once that happened,
the Triumphs and Franks were just a matter of time. |
Rebbi,
Check out the Tubelab SSE, which stands for Simple Single Ended. There is a Tubelab Forum on DIYAudio.com, with lots of tips and George is a great guy, too.
Reports are they are excellent sounding amps. |
Brownsfan,
Thanks.
The respect and appreciation is mutual.
Charles, |
If you are using low powered (ie. 2-10 wpc) SET and SEP amps, they work better with speakers of higher sensitivity. ie. closer to 100 dB instead of closer to 90 dB.
Don't put a lightweight in the ring against a heavyweight!
If that is all the power you have, try some horns. If you don't want to buy the big dollar stuff, try some Klipsch Heresy, Forte, Chorus, Cornwall, Lascala, Klipschorn, etc. Better the speaker impedance is linear too, othewise there will be audible frequency response issues that you may not be able to overcome with speaker placement.
OP: with your De Capos I would look at 20 wpc as the minimum, which will give you some leeway with different recordings, volume levels and room placements. |
Ddd1,
I am also an advocate for high efficiency easy to drive speakers. If you have followed this thread closely it's very apparent that Brownsfan and other contributors here report excellent results with their deCapo and SET/SEP amplifiers. As I and others have pointed out, simply looking at a amplifier's power specification isn't the whole story. Certainly a "good" quality 20 watt amplifier would be a fine match with this speaker but not necessarily represent "better", a viable alternative, yes. Brownsfan's clear detailed impressions of the Dynamo and deCapo pairing are quite convincing.
I believe that often too much emphasis is on power and not enough
attention given to an amplifie's actual design, built quality and
implementation. Brownsfan said in an earlier post that he could make the
case that his 8 watt Frankenstein SET drove the speaker better than his
500 watt Cary SSamp. In specific situations and pairings this isn't
surprising. Some speakers need more powerful amplifiers to perform their
best. Other speakers need high quality not power quantity to perform at
their best. With my current speakers my 8 watt SET "completely" outperformed my 40 watt push pull in sound quality.8 watts is 1/5 the power of 40 watts however these 8 watts are just superior sounding. Moral of the story, it all depends on individual amp and speaker matching rather than blanket proclamations about power.
Charles, |
Charles1dad,
Very helpful synopsis, thanks! |
Indeed Charles, very helpful and very true. |
Interesting review in Enjoy The Music on the Coincident Dynamo SE in the context of affordable system with new Tekton Reference loudspeaker that took a Blue Note Award. |
Rebbi, If you built the bottle head you can build a 300b amp kit. Audio Note Kits have some nice 300b amps to choose from. Tube Audio Labs have some good amps as well. The great thing about building your own is that you can change the flavor of the sound to your liking by changing a resistor or capacitor in the circuit or power supply. Start with very good power supply. Get very good output trannys or at least good ones to start with. Lundahl makes very good iron and so does Electra-Print. Changing parts and iron as funds allow. |
Jetrexpro,
Forgot all about the fact that AN makes kits. Their cheapest 300b kit is $2250... not chump change but not stratospheric, either. Tube Audio Labs asks you to email him for prices, which I may do. Thanks for the tips. |
Keep us posted on your search.
Regards-Jet |
Alright I'll play. I don't have a great deal of experience with SET'S although I do own one, which I purchased to replace a Jolida 102a in a second system. I've paired it to a passive SMD pot....highly modified Klipsch Hersey and 2 M&k 150 subs. This system just plain works.....powerful and dynamic. It took a lot of tweaking to get the Heresy to sound as good as they do now. The amp is also a big part of the end result....as much as I was fond of the little Jolida....this simply blows it away.
The amp I'm referring to is a GTA SE40 with sonic craft upgrade plus other special tweaks....bee's wax caps...rhodium post and rca's...etc.
Any....best value to me is equal to price performance ratio. I paid 500 and put another 100 into it....and with that I think it is a contender. |
Alright I'll play. I don't have a great deal of experience with SET'S although I do own one, which I purchase to replace a Jolida 102a in a second system. I've paired it to a passive SMD pot....highly modified Klipsch Hersey and 2 M&k 150 subs. This system just plain works.....powerful and dynamic. It took a lot of tweaking to get the Heresy to sound as good as they do now. The amp is also a big part of the end result....as much as I was fond of the little Jolida....this simply blows it away.
The amp I'm referring to is a GTA SE40 with sonic craft upgrade plus other special tweaks....bee's wax caps...rhodium post and rca...etc.
Any....best value to me is equal to price performance ratio. I paid 500 and put another 100 into it....and with that I think it is a contender. |
I guess you could say I doubled down on that comment. ;?) |
Since I once owned the Golden Tube SE40 as well as Golden Tube's 300B model (both of which I liked a lot), I thought I'd chime in because yesterday I received delivery of the Coincident Dynamo 34SE previously discussed in this thread above. This is a ”used” unit that I purchased for $800. The Coincident currently sells for $1,299 new; and, I will say right now, without equivocation, that this amp is indeed, one of the best audio bargains of all time.
The model I received is configured differently than the factory standard. Instead of EL34s this unit has Gold Lion KT77s with about 250 hours on them. Also, the rectifier tube is a NOS Phillips 5R4GYS bought from Upscale Audio, instead of the normal rectifier 5UG or 5AR4 as recommended by the manufacturer. It also sports a pair of 6SL7GT from Shuguang that comes standard with the Coincident Dynamo34SE. In addition to the amps mentioned above I have owned Forte 4, RM10, McCormack DNA, Dynaco ST70, Rotel, various Cary among others and currently own Cary V12, Cary SEI300B and Primaluna Dialogue One.
The Coincident is special and it is an absolute bargain. Congratulations to Israel Blume, the designer, manufacturer and distributor.
I will write a review soon. But first I'm going to purchase SED Winged C EL 34s as well as Shuguang 6CA7 Black Treasure tubes. I will also seek out some NOS RCA Red Base 6SL7 to try. I already have Sylvania NOS 6SL7s. Costly NOS tubes, but this baby deserves them.
Brownsfan, how is it going with your unit? Will pm you. |
Hi Mikirob,
Congratulations on acquiring the Coincident Dynamo amplifier, I'm sure it will contribute to making beautiful music in your home . I'll take the liberty of speaking for Brownsfan and say we both welcome you to the Coincident family.
Charles, |
Mikirob,
When I bought my Coincident Frankenstein 5 years ago it took me down a wonderful path of no return, profound musical joy and realism. I hope that your experience is as sublime as mine.
Charles, |
Hi Charles,
Thanks! When I move into my new home (late spring) I will likely purchase the Coincident 300B/preamp combo. You, as well as Brownsfan and some others, have provided me with the information I needed to make a well-thought out decision. I sincerely believe the Coincident will provide me with my best listening experience. |
Mikirob,
What speakers will you use with you future Frankenstein and CSL combo ?
Charles, |
Mikirob, very glad to hear that you like the Dynamo so much. As for me, I am using a 1967 Blackburn Mullard GZ34, which I do think this amp likes, but otherwise I am still using the stock tubes. I bought a new house and am preparing for the move to Tennessee, so I have precious little time for listening now. What little time I have is reserved for the Frankensteins. Some retirement! Too many 10-16 hour days.
I will have a dedicated listening room in the new place. At this point, I'm thinking the secondary system using the dynamo will either go in the bedroom as planned or perhaps in the living room. |
Brownsfan,
Congratulations on the out of state move and new home. I hope you and your wife enjoy this for many happy years. Hiking the hills and mountains in that state will keep you healthy and fit.
Charles, |
Thanks Charles. I'm hoping to hike 3-4 times a week, more initially. In recent years, I've been doing somewhere between 70-90 miles a week on my hiking vacations. I usually drop about 5-7 pounds and feel terrific. There is no doubt this will be the best thing I could do health wise (both mental and physical), provided I can stay out of the way of the bears, timber rattlers, and yellow jackets.
When I'm hiking, I do miss my music in the evenings, along with my wife and dog, of course. When I return to Indiana, I miss the hiking and beautiful scenery in the Smokies terribly. I had thought to buy a little condo down there, but my wife shocked me suggesting we just move lock stock and barrel. After carefully considering the move for 0.5 nanoseconds, I said, well, OK, if you insist.
I concluded that it would be easier to move the family to the Smokys than to move the Smoky Mountains to Indiana, but there are days when that judgement seams questionable. So much so, that my wife and I occasionally questioned the move. However, we finally found THE house, and almost have our home in Indiana on the market, so perhaps we are almost done. I hope we will be fully out of Indiana before the end of the year. For my wife, she gets her dream house and a retirement at the tender young age of 52. I get a 24 year old dream fulfilled.
For all of you mid to late career guys that tire of the daily grind, chin up! Dreams do come true. |
Just curious: are the Coincident products made in Canada or China? |
Bill,
As a "Brownsfan", you had better watch out for those "bears" they can be dangerous. "Dreams do come true", Bill I agree with that. We have more control over the path and outcome of our lives if initiative is exercised rather than expecting someone to do it for us. You've obviously figured that out and are enjoying your life.
Charles, |
Hey Brownsfan, I just logged in to this thread and as a retired old guy thinking of a move from NY to Az. I wanted to wish you and the Mrs. all the best.As a Brownsfan you have suffered long enough
Enjoy |
Rebbi,
To the best of my knowledge all Coincident products are made in Canada.You can email them to be certain. |
Hello Charles1Dad,
First, thank you for all the helpful comments. I believe I will likely go Coincident speakers, or one of the following: Dadaedlus, Devore Orangutan O96/93, Line Magnetic 755 Field Coil or something else like these. I currently own Tekton 4.5, Tekton M-Lore, Tekton Lore plus Infinity Prelude Composition. The Infinity is actually a good speaker from around the year 2000, at a cost of about $3,495. It is 96db efficient, 6 Ohm, with a built-in amp that drives the 12 inch solidly to 25 Hz. This speaker sounds really nice with the Cary 300SEI, even better with the Cary V12 SET, run at 50 watts Triode. The tubes I have run in the V12 include KT66, El34s, as well as NOS Reflector 6n3ces.
I am listening to the Dynamo 34SE hooked up to the Tekton M-Lore, 95db, 8 Ohm, clean 38Hz. Transport is a Sony SACD S9000ES connected to a Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC with Shuguang Black Treasure 12au7 tube, older Custom Power Cords, MIT digital cable, Silnote interconnect and PS Audio Statement speaker cables. Somehow, it all meshes; and my 16x14 office is a great listening room, never a problem, easy set-up. |
Brownsfan, I'm looking at Brent Jesse tubes as I write this, listening intently to the little Dynamo, the music just flows, neither too Yin or Yang, just right to my ears. The stage is wall-to-wall (14 feet) and deep as the recording allows. Timbre is right on the mark. This unit gas never been bright, save right out of box. Took about 30 minutes to settle down, then, Magic! Please keep me posted, I'll pm you as I make further notes and receive other tubes, likely order today. Best. |
Was, not gas, Heaven forbid... |
Thanks Mikirob, Yes, please keep me posted on your tube rolling exploits with the dynamo.
As for me, I just got the Mullard CV378s from Coincident and stuck them in the Franks. Very nice tubes right out of the box. Definitely an improvement over the GE5U4GBs that came with the Franks. I noticed right off that the CV378s "rectified" a bit of a persistent problem with harshness at some frequencies in French Horns. I was beginning to think this was a room problem.
I know exactly what you mean about the timbre being on the mark. I am hyper sensitive to anything being slightly off in that area, which is one of the things that draws me to Coincident gear. The coincident stuff just gets out of the way and lets the music happen.
I'm engrossed in the Bach Cello suites now. My brothers, this is why we work so hard! What profound music, so well played, so well reproduced, right there in my own living room.
I am sorely tempted to ask Israel if he has a stray single to give a whirl in the dynamo after I get moved. Clearly, the amp deserves better than the stock tubes.
As I think you have discovered, the dynamo is just stupid good for the money. But you haven't lived until you have heard the Franks.
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