What's the best non-DAC streamer?
@everest_audio thanks for the suggestions. The Innuos Zen S may actually be the setup for me. I don’t need the DAC function but the ability to rip CDs is very nice. I’ll check out the Pulse too.
Did you notice if the Pulsemini sounded better than the ifi zen? |
If you want storage, ripping capability and Roon core, any of the Innuos ZEN line are outstanding pieces. If you're looking for just streaming without the storage, etc, then the new Innuos PULSEmini is really an excellent piece. The new Innuos PULSE is also starting to ship now as well. So, we're actually moving out a ZEN Mk3 from one of our demo systems to replace with the new PULSE as in this system we don't need all the extra capability of the ZEN Mk3. I also definitely prefer the new PULSEmini over the iFi ZEN Stream, but that should be expected for the price difference. |
I should say that like an earlier poster, I do have a magna mano ultra streamer. It’s raspberry pi based with a really nice linear power supply and high precision fento clocks. It sounds great, but unfortunately I haven’t had the opportunity to try other streamers. It feeds an audio mirror tubadour iii-se, Don Sachs 6sn7 pre, first watt f4 mono blocks, Coincident PRE chain. |
If cost is no object for anyone reading (sorry, I know the op asked for sub $3k), the taiko sgm extreme is supposed to be one of the best... https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/taiko/ @mikelavigne has one in his absolutely beautiful system: https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/615 |
Innuos Zenith MkIII
probably a good choice if you need music storage. But Tidal has 60 million tracks that they store for me, so why do I need a storage device? If I added Lumin L1 to the Lumin U1 mini I would have a storage device and still save $1000 off the
Innuos Zenith MkIII. The kicker though is SQ. I have no idea which would sound better. If anyone has heard both, please chime in. |
Did a fair amount of research recently and decided on the Lumin U1 mini.Late to the game because it seemed complicated. (Server, renderer, network storage Roon Core , Network bridge, reclocker, computer, CD ripper, streamer, WiFi, etc.) With the Lumin it is simple. Connect power cord, connect ethernet cable, connect AES EBU (or output of choice) to DAC (Yggdrasil) Quick app download to iPhone. Done!Streaming hi res Tidal in no time. Don't need any other devices for my purpose. Complete setup can be done in just a few minutes.Obviously there are many, many different ways to proceed.People who say "This is the only way", or "this is the only device" are super annoying.I'm pretty happy with the Lumin, and for the money, I haven't seen any opinions on this thread yet that makes me wish I had made a different choice. YMMV.BTW I added the SBooster power supply and am very happy with the SQ. |
Qobuz is a music streaming service that runs on your music server. My Aurender supports Tidal and Qobuz. With Qobuz, you search for an album and, once found, you can make it your favorite for future playing. Qobuz allows you to build your own playlist or you can select from their list of 500+. Qobuz supports hi-res albums such as 24/96 and 24/192. My Aurender uses an iPad to control its operation. Most servers provide support for Tidal and Qobuz subscriptions. Please check your server to see what it supports. Some music servers include a DAC but I prefer the DAC be a separate box for maximum flexibility. If your Oppo 105 includes a DAC, you could connect your server to your 105. Please check both devices to see what options are supported (probably USB). |
Could I ask some naive questions about streaming and subscriptions, as I do not do any of this at present and am trying to conceptualize how it all works. From the thread I understand that Qobuz, Tidal and others are subscriptions preferable over YouTube because of the higher Rez. What about YouTube Premium? And I would need another "box" to process the signal, which is what the OP is inquiring about. Is the box like a smart TV with various subscriptions built in or do you add the App for the service you want?From the discussion I see that some of these boxes come with a DAC and some do not, and clearly you need a DAC somewhere in the chain. Would this box for example then plug go into my Oppo 105 and does the box have a display and a remote or do I need to use an iPad or similar device to make it work? Does the streaming service allow you to make a list of songs to keep in the box or is it like YouTube where you just look up the songs and play them so long as your subscription is active. I will leave it at that and thank you for your patience. |
@firberger, Thanks. The most important capability for a music server/streamer is its sound quality in your system. The best case is to borrow the unit and use it in your system, if possible. I also agree with @rockenator that the App controlling the music server is very important. "The accessing of your music plays a big part in your enjoyment of streaming content". This means the App needs to be intuitive to use, easy to find albums, support playlists and create favorites. You need to review the App to ensure it supports your needs to easily find and manage your music selections. As you said, QoBuz is a terrific streaming service. Its hi-res albums, 24/96 and 24/192, are great sounding. In addition, QoBuz offers 500+ playlists with a variety of musical categories. Type in the playlist search for jazz, classical, blues, etc. And, in the normal search area, type in #hi-res for a list of hi-res albums. Or, type in #hi-res jazz. Enjoy. |
Thank You @hgeifman for your concise notes . It will help me to as I am going through the same process as the OP . I also do not believe I need to spend as much. The other interesting post was @rockenator referencing the interface . Also I plan on using Qobuz for the my more critical listening when streaming. |
If sound quality is more important to you than feature set and interface, you could could consider making your decision based on synergy instead. The Auralic streamers as well as many of the popular Chinese streamers are known to be neutral to bright (in a good way). So they would pair well if you have a tube amp or tube pre to create a more balanced sound. The Innuos and Lumin products are known to be slightly on the warm and refined side. I have a Lumin D1 with Sbooster and I can confirm this to be true. These product are more likely to pair well with solid state gear. Although I have found the Lumin D1 to sound great with both McGary amp and MicroZOTL pre combo, as well as all my solid state pass amps |
I realize the OP is asking for something under $3k but, in general, the best streamer cost no object is the Sonore Signature Rendu SE optical. The Innuous and SoTM are cheaper and still sound very good. But more on topic, I think the best value is the Sonore opticalRendu Lite for Roon. It sounds better than the Innuous and SoTM and is lower cost. It's also the only streamer in that price range with optical networking. |
Roon lifetime is $699. The sonicTransporter i5 is a "small, fanless, NUC with a decent processor including wifi, a small amount of RAM, and a small internal HD for the software." For the non-DIY hobbyist, it's put together, configured, optimized and with Roon software installed for a couple hundred bucks more. |
You can save thousands by buying a small, fanless, NUC with a decent processor including wifi, a small amount of RAM, and a small internal HD for the software. For software you have lots of options. My personal preference is Room Rock, which works great. Of course, a Roon lifetime license will cost you $600, which is more than you'd spend on the computer. The final result would be a high-quality, whole-house streamer for around $1000. |
I enjoy and recommend Roon. With that said, the best bang for the buck would be a Small Green Computer sonicTransporter i5, Sonore's optialRendu Lite for Roon only along with SGC's linear power supplies. A Roon lifetime subscription and the above will keep you under $3k. In order to keep one's dedicated AC line as clean as possible, I'd recommend putting the computer (i5) on a separate AC circuit with the modem/router and run a fiber optic line to the opticalRendu that would reside in your audio system with the DAC. Unlike an ethernet cable, the fiber completely isolates your audio system from the noisy computer/modem/router environment. None of the other solutions suggested, often at higher cost, offer these advantages. |
I use QoBuz exclusively for streaming. In setting up a two channel system, the max I can get, resolution wise, is 24-bit / 192 KHz. I think DAC’s can be overrated - - and if you had a blind test, I’m not sure how much of a difference your ears could hear. That being said, the one thing that isn’t mentioned often in these posts is the interface/software you will be using. I’ve tried DTS Play-Fi and can’t stand the lack of gapless playing. By far, the easiest and most intuitive interface for me is BluOS. I think the interface is a critical decision in any streamer decision. Ease of use, features and benefits in accessing your music plays a big part in your enjoyment of streaming content. |
After using a home-built PC with various tweaks to the OS and USB cards and a linear power supply, I’m happy with the exaSound Sigma streamer connected via Ethernet and with the same 12v LPS. https://exasound.com/Products/SigmaStreamer.aspx It does MQA, DSD, Roon, etc, and has a couple of USB ports to hook up a disk drive for ripping, or an external or flash drive or storage. |
Auralic Aries G1 = Transparent sounding (High resolution, not much bass, perfect for tube amp. Intel nuc i7 with Roon rock = Close to Aries G1 but you get more options doing DSP and upsampling. Innuos Zen MK3 = Best of them all, the tonal balance is great with the right amount of bass region. However, there's no official app for Innuos. You will have to buy roon or others anyway. I owned 3 of them (already sold the G1). At this price point, Zen mk is the best. I did try Aurender but it cannot use with Roon. Very disappointed about this. People may say its Conductor app is better than roon in sound quality but we all know ROON UI AND EXPERIENCE IS THE BEST IN THE INDUSTRY. |
I attended the XFI Premium show in Holland last year where Aurender and dCS were sharing a room. Being interested in the dCS Network Bridge I waited for a turn to speak to the rep. and whilst chatting the Aurender rep joined us and to my astonishment agreed that dCS was better. To be fair, it was busy in the room and I am not sure which Aurender unit was being considered. My interest was turned into resolution when visiting some of the very hi-end rooms and noticed the dCS NB being used in 2 of them. Speaking to one of the owners, he said he has tried all the others. Still waiting for a used one at a good price. Not many around though! |
I have been using cocktail audio X-10 streamer which is old. I have been ripping my CDs on it thru a 1 TB hard drive which can be replaced when full. I can access all my music anywhere in my house wirelessly. In my bedroom where it is located its connected to an old Wadia digital DAC. Sounds pretty good. imThorek |
djones51 +1 Backing up djones51, Allo Digione, Digione Signature or Volumio streamer are really outstanding for the price. Digione could use an aftermarket LPS. Not sure, but I think they sell their own as well? Have everything with the exception of MQA, and Digione has been touted to surpass the Aurelic line. I’ve got the Allo Digione and do not see the need to move up at this point. Every thing else I do to my system just keeps revealing just how good it is. But if you’re Looking for next level, some of what was mentioned above should be outstanding. My point is that the RPi4 or relatively cheap mini computers with galvanic isolation are often overlooked while providing directly comparable results - if you’re willing to tweak a bit. |
The Lindemann Bridge is very capable and gives you Bang! Roon ready. The Innous mentioned above with Roon is fantastic. Make yourself comfortable with the Roon eq. and have a big sound upgrade. My personal experience with the Lumin D2 is unfortunately a dark and boring sound. Thought it was broke compared to a Lindemann + RME ADI2 combo. |
Haven’t tried most of the suggested items but I own an Yggy and used it primarily for the last 2 years with an Aurender N100H, I was satisfied until I tried it with a DCS network bridge with the AES connexion... I was floored... Never heard the Yggy before... so much so that I decided to buy buy a DCS Bartok and move my Yggy to a secondary system, sold the Aurender and bought a Melco streamer, N1AH2/EX, significant improvement over the Aurender IMO although not as good as the DCS network bridge, but it fits your budget and deserves an audition. If you don’t have the new USB card from Schitt already go ahead and buy it it is a major improvement over the old one... |
As you can see from above many posts, the selection of a music server is NOT an easy decision or process. It seems, everyone has a DIFFERENT server recommendation. I suggest you make a list of the important features your music server needs and your questions. For example, please review: 1) What is your price range for a music server? 2) What features does your server need? For example, I wanted my CD albums stored in the same box, wanted Tidal, Qobuz Streaming Services and also Internet radio stations. And, also the ability to add more additional streaming services when they become available. 3) Do you want a DAC built into the streamer or a separate DAC? For maximum flexibility, I decided on an EXTERNAL DAC. 4) What digital outputs do you need? I decided on a Music streamer with BOTH USB and AES/EBU digital outputs to my DAC. In most cases, I prefer the AEB/EBU connection (a high priority for me). Some servers offer an Ethernet audio connection for output. 5) Is a Roon interface important to you? If needed, you need a Roon enabled server. I decided that Roon is not required. In my case, the Aurender Conductor App DOES exactly what I need. However, several of my friends purchased a Roon enabled server and likes it very much. Another friend purchased the Roonlabs Nucleus by Roon Music Server and recommends it. 6) Your server needs a controlling App that runs on an iPad or something similar. You need to review the App to ensure it supports your needs to easily find and manage your music selections. 7) Does your server offer Remote Internet Technical Support? The Aurender does. I used this once and they solved my user operational issue very quickly (my error). 8) Sound quality is the MOST important. In my case, I asked many questions, talked to many people, read many reviews and auditioned various servers to help me make the right decision. I selected the Aurender N10 Music Server for its sound quality. 9) If possible, audition different music servers at different price ranges to narrow down the range you can afford and sounds the best (to you). Please do NOT rush this process. Take your time and listen.
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I’m using this to stream tidal and Qobuz to my preamp/DAC work great only USB out to your DAC https://allo.com/sparky/usbridge-signature-pcb.html |
If you are considering dropping $2K on a Lumin Mini most reviewers think that the money is better spent on the Innous Zen.Let me get this straight. First you weren’t aware of the Lumin Mini (or at least that it is streamer only). Then you make a statement that "most reviewers" think something else is better. Is that link that you posted supposed to support that? The U1 Mini would be at the top of my list of units to audition in this price range if I wanted a streamer only. |
If you are considering dropping $2K on a Lumin Mini most reviewers think that the money is better spent on the Innous Zen. https://www.tweekgeek.com/blog-tweek-geek-speek/auralic-lumin-innuos-overview-and-feature-comparison... |
Magna Mano $745 delivered via DHL air. With built-in PS and i2s out. http://www.magnahifi.com/en/webshop/mh-he-pi2s I got the Ultra for $860. Sweet. The app is another $5.. Or you can flash the included Volumio. Email Rob and/or Jos. |
