What's happened to the used high end market recently?? Sales are tough....:0(
The heading says it all!! What do you guys think is the reason that the sales in the used high end market have gone soft?? Prices too high? Economy too slow?? Stock market too volatile?? Something else??
no offense intended but the contention from some that the high end is suffering because there isn’t much for sale on audiogon or better still, because they cant sell their technics or onkyo amp at 75% of retail is not convincing. If you observe economic theory properly, the absence of salable inventory on the used market indicates a robust environment. In the old days of audiogon, the sold items would stay posted for a while which gave everyone an idea of what was happening. Now, unless you are watching closely, an item can be listed and sold and then disappear in 10 minutes.
@supertweak. Yours is the best post on this thread (and there are some great posts on this thread) that I have read and in my opinion, by a country mile!
To say that I couldn’t agree with you more would be an understatement!
I think you just summed up the whole problem with the HEA hobby and the main reason why most youngsters are not buying into it...well done!!
Doesn’t explain the recent lowering of activity on the used market, ( at least I suspect not),but it sure explains the overall lack of interest in the younger gen. +1000 on your post.
As usual I have a different take on things.When I was a teenager back in the 1970's,there was this speaker they took ads out for in the Stereo magazines.It was a tall tower speaker, unusually tall, even.Instead of one midrange and tweeter, it had a whole vertical row of midrange and tweeters.I forget how many.It was a little unusual in price too.It was a little more than $2,000 a pair which back then was a little pushing it, but that made it special a bit. Me and my friends would pick up the magazine and gawk at the full page ad depicting it,over and over.Remember how as a child you would look through toy catalogs over and over again.It was the same stuff pictured but each time you looked through it was a new experience.It was great fun.We would read the ad type over and over too.It recommended some LP's that would be good to hear on this speaker.It was well beyond the finances that your average teenager had at his disposal, but like the toy section of the Sears catalog it was fun to dream; and perhaps most importantly, it was not totally out of reach.High School would be over in less than a year.Factories would be hiring.If your parents would put up with your living at home a few extra years; it wouldn't' be that hard to save some money,who knows.You might just be able to swing it.
None of us ever did get to buy that speaker.Some of us could've at some point, but it would have cramped our style to spend all that money in one shot. It felt good to have some dough put away, but every now and then we let our mind wander and sort of flirt with the idea.We could, but at that point we probably knew that we shouldn't'.But it was fun to dream and flirt with the idea of it.
Fast forward to now.A young person picks up an audio magazine and looks at the ads and reads the reviews.The dream stuff isn't really just outside your reach anymore.It would take five years to save that kind of money.Once it was saved, looking back on all the self sacrifices you had to make over such a long time as 5 years, you wouldn't' feel like spending it.Back in the 1970's It might have taken you a year of sacrifice at an age you really don't feel like compromising anything, but it was at least a possibility.But saving for 5 years to buy a speaker that costs $10 grand.It's just too far outside the reach.The thought in most cases just isn't taken seriously; its dismissed.There are plenty of other things to spend money on instead.
If manufacturers want to get young people interested; they simply have to give them something to really dream about at an early age.Something that's just out of reach,but not out of reach too far or they will just go to something else to spend money on.They say our teenage years are our formative years.We develop personalities, values and start trying on for size what we really like in life.They say our basic personalities formed then,for the most part stay with us throughout life; and so do our basic desires, likes and dislikes.Give young people something to dream about,to go for, that's not too far out of reach.There is an occasional person who is impressed by a big price tag, but most squawk at it; wondering if its not a ripoff,but for the masses some dreams not too far out of reach will do.Once an audiophile, an audiophile for life; often anyway.Isn't that enough incentive?
I suppose that depends on the unit. I'll agree that the used market is probably more price driven than the new market, a good value is a good value. I wouldn't consider a pair of speakers that retail for $12,000 to be a good value at $10,000 used, but a pair of speakers that retail for $20,000 for $10,000 used could be (if the age and condition are appropriate).
I'd wager that at minimum any used item should have at least a 25% discount from new retail price, and that's if it's in perfect condition with all original accessories such a buyer's remorse trade-in or dealer demo. Make it a few years old and it shouldn't be any more than 50% of new retail. Go to ten years old and it should drop even more.
Of course, really hard to find specialty products could buck that, and while I window-shop in the for sale section here, the asking price is higher than I think is fair for a lot of it. That's fine, people can ask whatever they want for something, and I'm not going to insult anyone with a lowball offer, I'll just keep my eyes open until the right deal surfaces for something that I want at a price I think is fair.
There's a pair of Revel Salon2s on sale here for $8,000, which is an amazing price, but the ad is rife with misspellings and typos, the photos aren't as illustrative as they could be, and there's something off about the tweeters - they're at minimum missing the twin wire guards they should have, not sure if they're even the original OEM tweeters because of that. If I lived in the area where I could go see them in person I'd certainly go do that, but that's too much risk for that much money for me from a distance.
That's good to hear ClarinetMonster. A big Revel/JBL Synthesis dealer over on AVS Forums mentioned that Revel has already sold through the entirety of the first production run of the new Performa Be speakers.
The $10,000/pair price point seems to be very hot right now.
Someone mentioned Magico's goal of selling 1000 pairs of A3. Their goal for the entire first year was 100 pairs. They have already sold 800 in the first month. Just FYI.
@jimman2 Mullica Hill is a nice town. Not sure if you know Big Daddy Graham, but back a decade or more when I used to listen, he often talked about vinyl. Might be a customer of yours.
I sometimes pass through on the way to the shore. Though I’m now in Vancouver, if I get back this summer, don’t be surprised to see me
Well I’ve spent a substantial,amount in the hobby. I’m done though. 30k in this rig and it sounds spectacular but I have been blessed to be around folks who put a lot more in and allowed me to try a lot of things. It’s tough out here to get the sound you want sometimes if you don’t know how to match equipment and you don’t have the money to make mistakes. Then the other side of it is that there is a lot of high priced gear that just doesn’t get it done. That why HEA Is struggling.
So why the prices for vintage equipment like: McIntosh, Marantz, Garrard, EMT, WE, Klangfilm... is not getting cheaper? The reason the most of Hi-End equipment is hugely overpraised.
Other than the pricing of some of the gear I don't see a lot of parallels between HEA and luxury vehicles.
Many people buy expensive vehicles to present a certain level of success to the world, to outdo their neighbors or coworkers, etc. That dynamic isn't really in play with audio systems as far fewer people are going to see your audio system than your car, and even those people you invite inside likely aren't going to know Bose from Magico.
Also the maintenance issue doesn't really apply to HEA. Outside of tubes in tube amps and styluses in cartridges there's not a lot of routine maintenance needed in audio systems. Amps and speakers can go decades without having to have caps replaced, and even if they do need it the parts themselves are generally inexpensive.
daveyf: In my guestimation when you buy a piece of high end equipment (and see what I say later about what is high end to me) it immediately depreciates by about 33%. After used it a year or 2 maybe then by 50% and at 5 years 75%. When I sell that is usually what go by and my stuff generally sells quickly - but not immediately and usually after some negotiation. That makes me think the above numbers are somewhat true. This data is also generally supported by I've seen for equipment that has actually sold on eBay (we unfortunately cannot track sold prices here). There are a few factors here - most equipment after 2-5 years may not be quite obsolete but has been replaced with equipment as good that is now sold new at lower prices. I am speaking about the equipment in the $1K to $6K range as I unfortunately have absolutely no experience in the 5 and 6 figure stuff (I briefly owned a pair of Pioneer S1EX speakers purchased at 50% off but had to sell because they were physically too large for my listening room (long story), so I was close). I bought an Aurelic Vega DAC new 6 months ago that I think I'll be lucky to get half of it's price - DACs keep getting better and less expensive in short amounts of time. I would hope things like amps, preamps and turntables would hold their value better than that. Now if we all followed the same thinking we would sell better and then buy more and therefore keep evolving our systems to be 'better'. And I agree that the people that can afford to spend on the five and six figure $ equipment have no need to buy used and they aren't really the focus of this discussion (sorry to you really really rich people - BTW I'm envious as I would really like to have some six figure speakers - lol). In joking I realize that a six figure speaker would have to depreciate by 90+% for me to afford)
@tutetibiimperes. That’s all good and correct, question is whether this also applies to HEA? Since a lot of the new gear is edging towards pricing that makes most of these new luxury cars pale in comparison!
Part of the massive depreciation of luxury vehicles is the 'image' issue, driving the latest and greatest is a status symbol, and part of it that many of those brands lean heavily towards leases vs purchases (not sure about Bentley or Rolls, but it's very true for MB, BMW, Jaguar, etc).
Plus, there's additional downward pressure on used vehicle sales because once they start leaving the warranty maintenance costs are dramatically higher than they are for more mainstream vehicles. Buying that $100,000 Mercedes for $30,000 a few years old can be seen as a bargain, but the maintenance costs are still in line with a $100,000 Mercedes and not a $30,000 Toyota.
Well part of this is the fact that great sound can be had with products costing far less such as Tekton speakers, Class D amps, digital powered DACs and making your own audio cables. DIY is on the increase for sure. Many of us have just said enough with these crazy inflated prices and doing something about it. I know lots of Aphiles rolling their own cables and upgrading their own gear to achieve what they want.
its viewed as ‘old technology’, we grew up with it, the youngsters are not growing up with it
at some point a system finally provides what we seek, so why keep spending big dollars?
its often a solitary experience, gone are the days of cranking it up and partying hard with a crowd
you can buy pretty decent gear these days with fewer dollars
like owning a great car, a kick ass system was often a status symbol, not so much any more
like a lot of the hobbies we grew up enjoying: skiing, hunting, fishing, SLR cameras, rebuilding cars, finding a new swimming hole, etc, it’s considered passé
entertainment options which require little or no capital outlay abound today, in the past we had to create our own fun, Mom and Dad used to force us outside whenever we complained of boredom - ‘go use your imagination, and take the dog and your little brother with you!’
jimman2, I agree with you that pricing is always a factor. OTOH, I have been told by several a’phile friends who have posted gear for sale that the ’only’ way to sell these days, is to basically ’give away’ stuff. Not sure what they consider a ’give away’ price to be, but I do know that the overall market for used gear is definitely a lot less than even a year or so ago. What is driving this market aspect is the basic topic of my OP. Like you say, Millenniums are strong force in the market, the ’Boomer’s’ like myself are diminishing. Yet, looking at the new gear HEA market, pricing is steadily reaching higher and higher plateaus! IMHO, this means a much greater exposure for greater loss when one needs to liquidate this gear. Here’s another thought....one that I don’t think has yet been expounded. In the auto business, it is known that the Bentley’s, MB’s, Rolls. and other ’luxury’ exotica are subject to the greatest devaluation once they come to the used market. Not because they are any less worthy, but simply because those that can afford them are not interested in buying used! Could this be a factor in this hobby too...at this point???
As we all recognize, cause, effect and correlation can prove elusive.
First, define high end audio. In similar conversations these topics are often left unresolved.
My personal opinion is that each variable is poorly defined. Is the economy good or bad, it depends on where you are on the sliding scale. US population has doubled over the past 60 years, the average top CEO comp over that time in todays dollars has risen from $800k to almost $16 million. Whether its cars, clothing, stereo gear.....things change, manufacturing expertise moves forward and consumer demand evolves.
at the end of the day, if you list something for sale and it doesnt sell, your price is too high. Ive listed alot of stuff over the years and rarely does it take longer than a week to get a deal done but I dont buy nor sell Onkyo so who knows.
tutetibiimperes: In regard to your 1st point - while I agree somewhat , Millennials and Boomers are my main customers and I would say the younger folks account for 2/3rd of my records sales. Many have good jobs. I simplified in my original post as although I have 1,200 records I also have many other items geared to Millennials and Boomers (swords, knives, certain books (Harry Potter, Marvel related, etc.), Batman, Spider-man related stuff. I started out as an antique store with records - we've been in business for 2 years now and we have almost zero antiques - not because they sold but because you almost can't give them away. Since then we learned that Millennials will need to be our customers if we are to stay in business. I'm getting way off post but all this to to say that Millennials do spend money. Many certainly have $400 in disposable money to so I don't think money is the problem. As far as limited space goes, that may be true but I (and I'm sure many of us) spent 4 years in college in very small dorm rooms and finally a small apartment. Music with good sound quality was important enough that we always had a stereo and it wasn't as good as the $400 systems in my shop.
daveyf: Back more on topic and I haven't read all the great posts here and it has probably been said - I think the used prices on Audiogon are generally way too high. It seems when I look for something here the asking prices are in line with asking prices on eBay. For example the is an amplifier I want with several listed on eBay for $2000 and one here goes on sale for $2000. I'm unable to find one on eBay that sold because the amp is so infrequently listed in true action (eBay does not track sold items back in time nearly as long as they used to which makes it much tougher to find this information). So finally one comes for auction and has 50 bids (probably many from people here) and sells for $1200 - that should be it's approximate value (and of course any low buy-it-now sale price is meaningless). This is simplified of course - most of us would far prefer to buy here than from eBay and would pay more from a member here. If asking prices (here) reflected legitimate (eBay) sale prices I think pieces would move very quickly.
@daveyf I agree my previous 2 post didn't directly address your OP and instead responded to something else on the thread. Sorry about that. Please accept my apology. I think that there is an existing age, aging and income gap that is softening the used HEA market. I agree with points 1-4 above of @tutetibiimperes post. They seem spot on and are making the used market softer than what may have previously seemed normal. In order to have a robust used market you first need demand in the new market. The generation behind me isn't that interested in either new or used HEA equipment. Unless it is new headphones. The generation ahead of me is getting older (I'm 54yo), downsizing, and not buying as much new equipment it seems. The new market drives the used market. If we're not buying new stuff, then we're holding on to the old stuff and not replacing it with other used stuff either. This is the new normal. I will also point out that newer technology will continue to gut used prices, especially in the DAC category. The folks who paid for ultra-high end DACs appear to be struggling to get 50 cents on the dollar because those DACs SQ is being challenged at a much lower price points in the new DAC market.
It certainly seems that the “rediscovery” of vinyl has helped with bringing the younger crowd into the hobby. The physical media is a great way for young people to discover music and to alert them to the pleasures of collecting music. The next big return will be the CD. IMO, the ability to stream is a great way to listen to a large variety of music, but it has too much of a “throw away” aspect that will ultimately loose the excitement of opening that new record...or even CD. While this is an interesting point, it does not seem to have much to do with the original topic that I posted, at least IMO.
1. Many younger people are still saddled with student loan debt and while unemployment is nearing record low numbers, wages haven’t risen as they should have so money is tight. Boomers who got caught out of sorts during the financial crisis are holding on to their jobs longer instead of retiring, making advancement harder.
2. Partly due to the above, but also due to other trends such as younger people choosing more urban dwellings than suburbs, many younger people don’t have the space or the privacy (either roommates or living in apartments where you can’t play a stereo much without disturbing your neighbors, or living at home with parents where luxury purchase would be frowned upon plus the noise issues) to set up nice stereo systems.
3. Because of both of the above high end headphone sales have been booming. You can get an extraordinary headphone rig for a tiny fraction of the price of equivalent speakers, it takes up virtually no space, won’t disturb the neighbors or roommates, etc. Headphones can easily be HEA, and while they can’t do everything that real speakers can do, they can provide an incredibly enjoyable musical experience without the expense and inconvenience of 100lbs floorstanders and the associated gear.
4. For those who are interest in traditional speakers, the quality of budget gear has increased exponentially over what it once was. Easier access to computer modeling and computer aided design, a better understanding of science-driven speaker design, and manufacturer-direct selling via the internet have all helped bring the price of entry to very satisfying sound way down. Elac, Q Acoustics, Hsu, Emotiva, RBH, Philharmonic Audio, RGL, etc, have proven you don’t need to spend thousands of dollars to get a great experience.
5. This one may be controversial, but the prevalence of snake oil in HEA turns a lot of people just starting into the hobby away. Cables costing hundreds of dollars or more, vibration control for solid state electronics, ‘audiophile’ fuses, mystery boxes that claim to have magic properties, etc, it all comes off as both silly and slightly deceptive. At least the magic crystals of the past could be laughed off, today there’s a veneer of misleading pseudoscience being applied by purveyors of what usually amounts to nothing more than audio jewelry.
@jimman2 Thanks for this post. Well, at least they are spending hundreds of bucks in your shop! My boys are using a Music Hall 2.2MMF TT with the stock cartridge. They got it for Christmas several years back after asking me to drag out some vintage components I had in storage. Anyway, the path I'm seeing among their friends is they come over and hear my boys' setup. Most like it but aren't going to to do anything other than listen to free music through their laptop and earbuds. But, one friend, after hearing separates, cut a deal with his dad to work for half and his dad would cover the other half--he bought some entry level separates and an audiophile is born. That family has financial means. Another friend heard my boys' system and went home and dug out his grandfather's all-in-one record player. That family has limited means. But another audiophile is born. A glimmer of hope is out there!
astewart8944 - I have a small record shop in NJ specializing in Classic Rock with about 1,200 records in stock and a good supply of vintage stereo equipment. We play records all day when we are open on modest equipment - I switch it around but am currently using a Technics Integrated amp SU7700, Sony PS-FL5 turntable and decent vintage Infinity speakers - basically $425 system as priced in my shop. Most of my customers are exactly as you describe age-wise. Almost all of the younger customers are using Crosley type all in one record players or new suitcase players and have zero interest in the better sound they hear in my shop as they spend sometimes hundreds of dollars on vinyl. Oh well!
I have 17 year old teen-age twins--both spin records. One owns 3 crates of records, the other owns 4 crates. Importantly, they were each gifted their first crate by a great friend of mine who used to be a college radio DJ. Steve is the man! In Dallas, several new record shops opened up in the last couple of years even as the largest CD shop, CD Source, shut down. Josey Records (which has a few locations) is mostly average used records, a serviceable amount of new records, some CDs, and a section that sells audio gear. The audio gear is pretty much entry level. The place is fairly busy and has a young crowd (teens and 20 somethings) and the Agon aged crowd (old guys). Very few people in the 30s and 40s crowd. Since most of us started with entry level gear (that is a sensible place to start IMO) HEA might simply need to wait for its up and coming customers to work their way towards higher end equipment over time. And we probably need to acknowledge that uber-expensive gear, like an uber-expensive car, is an ultra-luxury item. Not necessary for enjoying the audio journey: but a great ride when the chance to experience it comes along.
"my son is 19 and listens to everything on his Iphone with earbuds."
+1, exactly the same for my son, who is 18. So I bought him a pair of great Etymotic Research earbuds ($400) and a dac for his computer (an Oppo) and he's good. He has no interest in even learning the turn-on sequence for my tube electronics.
The move away from HEA to Home Theater is nothing new....so I don't believe this explains the current market in the used HEA area. The Home Theater market is no easy street either...several brick and mortar companies that I know who moved away from HEA to Home Theater, subsequently went under.
Emotiva is following the same move towards HT; their success with the XMC-1 preamp and T1/2 speaker sets has pushed them logically in this direction. Their new design for a multi/multi-channel new pre (7 channels and up) is based on the belief that additional speaker combinations and Atmos-type additions will continue to sell the best.
Interesting post craigl59. I think Alon may have hit on a winning strategy. Even if he sells half of that number, then we are looking at close to $5M in sales. OTOH, I'm certain that there are a lot of manufacturer's and dealers who would prefer to sell just one piece at $5M! They probably think, and maybe rightly so, that it is just as easy or even easier, to find that one guy who will fork over $5M, than to have to sell 500 pieces...never mind 1000!
A local,well respected audio dealer told me a few years ago,that he had to switch his focus to home theater to survive.While he does still sell some high end 2 channel gear,home theater equipment pays the bills for him.Super guy and very knowledgeable,but most of the customers come in for receivers and projectors and things like that.Very few guys like him are left in my area.Someone that could help you with your next hi end purchase,and answer questions you may have about it!Magnolia took a lot of business away from another retailer that closed resently.That retailer told me that magnolia could sell similar stuff cheaper and offer financing.They just couldn’t compete anymore.That store was also full retail all the time!
The Magico founder Alon Wolf based his business model on the new A3 for a projection of selling 1000 sets; at $9800 that's close to 10 million and enough to cover his substantial equipment outlay. Of course he is following a certain marketing approach: build a clientele for the very top end then offer a more reasonable product to increase sales volume.
Will be interesting to see if the enthusiasm for the new design continues although the first run appears to be sold out.
Are there 1000 audiophiles out there with ten grand to spare? If so, then HEA may have some legs after all.
I think expert audiophiles are getting so much amazing sound quality from TC paste, aftermarket SR fuses, and Tekton speakers that all HEA components and speakers are totally obsolete...
The equipment was always..supposed to be about servicing the music.
When you look at the whole scenario and package presented in the now, as presented to anyone looking at it, as potential to listen... you can’t blame the younger folks for going for the music first, over the equipment.
The very idea and emergence of Napster and it’s wild ride - told you all you needed to know.
First we had to build the ability to actually listen to prerecorded works. Done.
Now we are technologically evolved to the point that today’s mediocre technology, at low cost, can serve as a conveyor belt into many magnitudes more of music, as compared to all situations prior. And moreso every day.
Nevermind all the connected socio/cultural-politial-coporate/economic indicators.
The view and reality presents some very simple choices.
Great post trelja. I still question the reason behind the more recent trend in the market...the one that has seemingly majorly softened the market for used HEA. Trying to sell some of the gear on portals like the one that I am typing on, has---at least according to several of my a’phile friends-- resulted in almost having to give away gear! OTOH, we are constantly hearing of the new HE product that is pushing the asking price into the stratosphere. Presumably there is a market for these pieces...and a big enough market that it makes sense to continue to push the prices upwards and upwards. Looking at the new WAMM speaker or the new D’Ag Relentless amps would seem to bolster this trend. Not sure how many of the buyers can truly afford this gear, but there must be enough for the manufacturer’s to feel safe enough to produce it. Hate to think of the potential loss of $$ once it gets to the used market, LOL.
@jmcgrogan2 thank you for your comments, John. Hope all is well back in the Philly area...
You bring up excellent points on the internet and the state of society. Obviously, the web turned most retail businesses on their ear. My previous point was the rising price trajectory of one to two
orders of magnitude crippled what we used to considered the audiophile
world, and shrank it more than proportionally. Though the internet rose
at the same time, I don't blame that on HEA's decline, as it
could (should?) have actually grown the hobby. Personally, I'm surprised this
many brands have survived until today.
Of course, you may disagree with how I see things...
I saw the internet change high-end audio in several ways. The information explosion provided sources far beyond the two magazines. The many internet publications, forums like Audiogon, and email allow us to discover and discuss brands, setup, experience, etc. we often had little to no previous knowledge of. We transcended the days of relying on the advice of friends and local dealers, with this newfound access to these brands and their personnel yielding almost instant satisfaction compared with the days of sitting down to write and send off an actual letter or the once expensive long-distance telephone call. Going the other way, it allowed the mom and pop or one man band audio companies to compete on a more level than ever playing field with the bigger names in the industry by providing low to no cost advertising and the ability to interact with a nationwide and even worldwide customer base, and to even bypass the need to build a dealer network via direct sales and eCommerce. Except for a very few companies that guarded geographic integrity,
buyers now interacted with a far greater dealer circle and used
component wells. All of this increased price competition on components to something that just didn't exist.
Still, component pricing took off on a level that we could not have imagined 20 years ago. Back then, most considered a $4K speaker the investment of a more than dedicated audiophile. Somewhere around 5 years ago, I almost fell off my chair when I read a post here lamenting the flaws of a product, "you just can't get that good a speaker for $35K." Things have only gotten more expensive since. Call me out of touch with current reality, but I still believe one can buy an awfully good loudspeaker for $4K, though that now often has to come from the used market.
Anyway, in the past decade, I've turned the other way. Having access to now afford the kind of things in life we used to dream of as younger men, I find less fulfillment, and even disappointment in the bigger, more expensive, garish item, audio and otherwise. It's a rare component, loudspeaker, cable built to impress that actually satisfies me. I feel happier and hear more music and soul in the simple typical 10 - 50 watt tube amplifiers than those with more than 100 watts, or additional and complex circuitries designed to take care of myriad supposed issues. I could say the same for loudspeakers, etc., but the point has been made
Kenny, you would probably being doing people a big favor if you gave more details on where you sold your gear, what % of the retail price you ended up with and any other tweaks that might be helpful
All I know for sure,that last year was a outstanding year for me to sale 50k worth of unneeded gear going fwd and purchase 2 nice pair of speakers for 1/3 of new price that will be keepers for a very long time. The used hea markets have dropped even more in one yrs time and I certainly wouldn’t want to try and sale anything now,might as well just give it away.
Vintage sales are hotter than ever on eBay. You name it Pioneer, SAE, Technics Pro, Nakamichi, Yamaha, Sansui silver are selling like hotcakes. They're priced "right" according to condition and market demand. Prices remain in the realm of blue collar salaries, and not the stratosphere as some of these lunatic marketing types would have you believe at the trade shows. Frankly I can't understand how HEA has stayed relevant as long as it apparently has. There is no great enigma at work here. Give the public what it wants and they will come.
I’d like to throw out one more concern on the resale topic... if you scan the items for sale on audigon, then scan a bunch of threads...what you may notice is the same 100-200 names... not a very big pool of regulars who might be potential buyers.... which then pulls more buyers and sellers to eBay, Craig’s List, etc. which seem to be lower price alternatives.
Some great replies so far. Particularly interesting points about the trends of the new generation. Personally, I very much hope that HEA will NOT be going the way that akaim8 states. OTOH, the one thing that does strike me as a MAJOR problem for HEA is the "one man" aspect of the hobby. In one of the Absolute Sound issues, I read an excellent article by Gary Koh relating to this issue. I am certain that this aspect could be one of the main contributing factors to the potential demise of HEA. Question is how do we change this??
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