What's happened to the used high end market recently?? Sales are tough....:0(


The heading says it all!! What do you guys think is the reason that the sales in the used high end market have gone soft??
Prices too high? Economy too slow?? Stock market too volatile?? Something else??

Thoughts....
128x128daveyf

Showing 8 responses by jimman2

astewart8944 - 
I have a small record shop in NJ specializing in Classic Rock with about 1,200 records in stock and a good supply of vintage stereo equipment. We play records all day when we are open on modest equipment - I switch it around but am currently using a Technics Integrated amp SU7700, Sony PS-FL5 turntable and decent vintage Infinity speakers - basically $425 system as priced in my shop. Most of my customers are exactly as you describe age-wise. Almost all of the younger customers are using Crosley type all in one record players or new suitcase players and have zero interest in the better sound they hear in my shop as they spend sometimes hundreds of dollars on vinyl. Oh well!
tutetibiimperes:
In regard to your 1st point - while I agree somewhat , Millennials and Boomers are my main customers and I would say the younger folks account for 2/3rd of my records sales.  Many have good jobs.
I simplified in my original post as although I have 1,200 records I also have many other items geared to Millennials and Boomers (swords, knives, certain books (Harry Potter, Marvel related, etc.), Batman, Spider-man related stuff.  I started out as an antique store with records - we've been in business for 2 years now and we have almost zero antiques - not because they sold but because you almost can't give them away. Since then we learned that Millennials will need to be our customers if we are to stay in business.   I'm getting way off post but all this to to say that Millennials do spend money. Many certainly have $400 in disposable money to so I don't think money is the problem.  As far as limited space goes, that may be true but I (and I'm sure many of us) spent 4 years in college in very small dorm rooms and finally a small apartment.  Music with good sound quality was important enough that we always had a stereo and it wasn't as good as the $400 systems in my shop.  
daveyf:
Back more on topic and I haven't read all the great posts here and it has probably been said - I think the used prices on Audiogon are generally way too high.  It seems when I look for something here the asking prices are in line with asking prices on eBay.  For example the is an amplifier I want with several listed on eBay for $2000 and one here goes on sale for $2000.  I'm unable to find one on eBay that sold because the amp is so infrequently listed in true action (eBay does not track sold items back in time nearly as long as they used to which makes it much tougher to find this information).  So finally one comes for auction and has 50 bids (probably many from people here) and sells for $1200 - that should be it's approximate value (and of course any low buy-it-now sale price is meaningless).  This is simplified of course - most of us would far prefer to buy here than from eBay and would pay more from a member here.  If asking prices (here) reflected legitimate (eBay) sale prices I think pieces would move very quickly.  
daveyf:
In my guestimation when you buy a piece of high end equipment (and see what I say later about what is high end to me) it immediately depreciates by about 33%.  After used it a year or 2 maybe then by 50% and at 5 years 75%. When I sell that is usually what go by and my stuff generally sells quickly - but not immediately and usually after some negotiation.  That makes me think the above numbers are somewhat true.   This data is also generally supported by I've seen for equipment that has actually sold on eBay (we unfortunately cannot track sold prices here).  There are a few factors here - most equipment after 2-5 years may not be quite obsolete but has been replaced with equipment as good that is now sold new at lower prices.  I am speaking about the equipment in the $1K to $6K range as I unfortunately have absolutely no experience in the 5 and 6 figure stuff (I briefly owned a pair of Pioneer S1EX speakers purchased at 50% off but had to sell because they were physically too large for my listening room (long story), so I was close).  I bought an Aurelic Vega DAC new 6 months ago that I think I'll be lucky to get half of it's price - DACs keep getting better and less expensive in short amounts of time.  I would hope things like amps, preamps and turntables would hold their value better than that.  Now if we all followed the same thinking we would sell better and then buy more and therefore keep evolving our systems to be 'better'.  And I agree that the people that can afford to spend on the five and six figure $ equipment have no need to buy used and they aren't really the focus of this discussion (sorry to you really really rich people - BTW I'm envious as I would really like to have some six figure speakers - lol).  In joking I realize that a six figure speaker would have to depreciate by 90+% for me to afford)
I had an Auralic Vega listed recently here for $1950 (it had an original price of $3495).  It was less than a year old and almost mint.  2 sold on  on eBay for about/above my asking price.  Most of the offers I received (here) were in the $950 to $1250 range.  I had one legitimate/reasonable offer but buyer was Canadian and shipping/customs was prohibitive so it didn't pan out.  Other than that offers weren't fair. That is second audio piece within year that I ended up selling locally because I couldn't get a reasonable offer here on Audiogon.   On another note, I have noticed that listings on Facebook Marketplace get much more attention than Craigslist.
sfcfran - I totally agree.  I had higher expectations mostly because the Vega is still currently sold/produced, and although the retail price is still $3495 it is always on sale now for $2799. My asking price point was about 1/3 lower than the current price and I was trying to net about half of current MSRP.  When I look to buy a used  item that is still in current production, I don't expect to get it for 50-60% off and I'm not seeing those kinds of offers here or on eBay. If you believe what you read the Vega  compares favorably to the $5-6K DACs sold a couple years back.  

teo_audio - you are right on that it is near impossible to audition many of these high end items even at the dealers that carry them.  I bought the Vega from an Auralic dealer but they didn't have one set up to audition and they had to order it for me.  I bought strictly off internet reviews.  I was not unhappy with the unit at all (other than I did not like it's aesthetics) - I sold it because I had sold my Cary CD/DAC player a year earlier and almost immediately regretted it - I recently came across (locally) another Cary CD Player/DAC and went that direction.  For my ears the DACs that Cary designs in their CD players are as good as it gets in my price range.  


I have a small retail business for past 2 years - I am still not sure if the economy all that good despite the stock market - lol.  There are at least 2 types of high end audio equipment buyers (and this mimics our society) - those that have enough money that it does not matter what the cost of the equipment is and those (such as myself) that enjoys the hobby but cannot afford most new equipment or even most of the used equipment.  So for me the status of the economy is irrelevant.  As an example - I may have $8K (which is a lot of money to most of us) to spend on my entire system.  In my instance I Iook for highly regarded used equipment that is 3-5 years old - maybe 90% of current technology but at 30-40% of current price.  You can build a nice system that way (you can end up with $20-25K equipment for that budget) - but always be a few years behind current, and that is very important to many.   If I had $15K to spend I might buy used equipment 1-2 years old, or using the same thoughts end up with used equipment that had original prices of $40K.  
elizabeth... I've used some real price examples and don't think the stuff I've tried to sell has been overpriced (not that you are implicating me).  If something has sold several times on eBay at $1900 I think I should be able to reasonably expect $1700 here - taking into consideration the potential problems with eBay sales and fees, etc.  That is a fair expectation in the tight knit audio loving community that we are - lol.  And conversely I'll gladly pay 50% for an item that is as new and is still current.   You don't (typically) get anywhere near that type of price from a dealer .