What just happened to accepting Paypal?? looks like they are trying to drive us away

When one switches to a business account, it opens up the possibility of IRS looking at our sales as income....and thus legally reportable when filing taxes, and obviously subject to federal tax, as well as state taxes.

It's considered income regardless. : )

I think its like the sales tax thing, one day it shows up and we have to pay sales tax on everything.....I think this is a path for the IRS to track your transactions for the purpose of taxing us as "Business" people earning income.......First its yard sale money and now its business income..........What else could you call it ??  I think it started when the "big" stores came in like the Music Room, and other big dealers in used audio and made it big business ........... Will

David, PP only reports our sales to the IRS if you have 100 sales and a significant total of around  $50,000. in a year, I believe. It might even be 200 sales....but you have to reach both categories to be reported. Having a business account seems to mean it's income from a "business" no matter how limited.

Lula.
The figures are 200 sales or $20,000.
Which is a stupidly low figure as some of our hobby items can cost that or more on its own.
And this is from a personal account.
I have had " dealings" with the IRS and PayPal over this for the last 3 year’s.
PayPal at present does not differentiate between actual monies received from sales and gifts from friends and family sources.
This results in them sending the IRS incorrect and untruthful statements which then costs time and money to resolve.

Expect a change........

Although I hate to say it, it does look like the new Ebay managed payments system will work out better for the hobbyists.
They also have to report to the IRS sales of 20k or 200 items BUT they do not know or care about any monies received via PayPal friends and family so at least it should be an accurate fair reporting from eBay.

Ok back to the topic at hand......

@lula  Thanks. That's good to know. I was referring to 'self-reporting' which is what we all do, even for Craigslist. : )

Uberwaltz...PP only reports to IRS if the sales reach 20K (I assume you are correct with this number) AND 200 items sold. I discussed
this issue with PP some time ago to make sure that BOTH criteria must be met to be reported, not one or the other. Obviously, one can easily sell a few pieces of high end equipment and reach $20K. That would certainly not constitute the workings of a business.

 

@lula  Thanks again. The information you shared is valuable. Appreciate it.

Lula
Correct but you forgot the part where PayPal just lump ALL of your monies received regardless of its source and send it to the IRS.
It needs to be differentiated so the IRS can see truly what is occurring .

Trust me I have LIVED this problem for a couple years.......
Cannot say any more.....

So this is a PayPal thing and A'gon has no control. I have a couple of Items for sale, I guess after or if they sell I'll have to move on. I hate to say this but it almost seems like a way to report detailed info to the IRS. 

I would agree by switching to a business account then every transaction would be reported to the IRS I believe.
Unlike present personal account where you have to exceed the already mentioned limits.
It truly is all driven by PayPal, Audiogon got caught with their pants down on this one.

I guess we could be back to accepting only money orders or waiting for checks to clear like back in the old days.....

I already have done that twice of late in my "other" hobby.

Here I made two sales last week, both times I ended up just sending the buyers a direct invoice via my PayPal account. Easy enough especially as you can reference the listing id and everything to make it nearly ironcast.
But still not as fluid as it was or should be.

No way am I letting a jumped up entity like PayPal force me into creating a business account.
They can go jump first...….

I sold an item on ebay last year for a little over 2K, never used them for an item over a few hundred bucks. I was in shock to learn I had to ante up 10% of my sale to Ebay just for their commission.

My guess is Agon may be looking to go that route with different options in handling their transactions to increase their kickback.

Just a guess, but I don’t see any other reason to stray from what has been working.

This is all unfortunate. I have had a few issues with Paypal in the past, and it seems that now they are tightening the noose once again. Let's go back to money orders and bank checks as one other poster suggested.

EBay has been 10% commission for a very long time.
Up until about 4 years ago they had capped max fees to $250 so anything over $2500 sale it was $250 and no more.
Then they got even more greedy and raised that cap to $750 so items up to $7500 pay full 10% commission.

Not a bad scam for a few dollars worth of servers, few programmers and some customer service agents.

The problem is that Audiogon is forcing their customers to use paypal.  I don't like paypal and in most of my previous items I've sold here I didn't use paypal.  I accepted personal checks, cash (for pickup) or cashiers check.  If a buyer wanted to use paypal, then I would accept it.  However, if you try to list an item on audiogon for sale now, you are forced to use paypal business.

Well, first, I am not (I repeat not) a business.  It is not true to claim that I am.  Second to register on paypal as a paypal business you have to put all kinds of information on there.  Business address, etc.  You are a private party that is trying to sell something. That is it.

Third, most times a buyer agrees to purchase an item I'm selling and then comes by to pick it up.  I always connect the unit for sale, let the buyer listen to it using their music if they like and then they pay me in cash and leave.  They know that the unit looks and works as advertised. But if they do that and pay me with paypal, they can take the unit home or  where ever, damage the unit and use paypal to get their money back, when they are the ones that actually damaged  the unit.

So, paypal only protects the buyer not the seller.

What I am saying is 1) I am not a business, 2) why is audiogon insisting that all sellers have to use paypal?, instead of check or cash transactions?  especially if you physically pick up the unit from my home.

There is something else going on here.  I just sold a piece of equipment a few months ago (upgraded my turntable), and accepted a personal check. Now, I can't do that?  makes no sense.  The seller is at risk when a personal check, cashiers check, is used.  not the buyer.  

enjoy

minorl"The problem is that Audiogon is forcing their customers to use paypal."

You are clearly misinformed or otherwise you are trying to smear Audiogon because you are not being forced to do anything hear and in fact other sellers are offering multiple payment options so perhaps you should get your facts straight before slamming the operator of this forum.

@minorl
You are correct. I just listed an item here and the only option it allowed is paypal. If someone wants to pay another way I guess they would have to send me a message and let me know how they will pay! BTW, I am not a business customer!

Clearthink;  Apologies but I am not misinformed.  What I wrote was 100% correct.  Maybe you should get your facts straight before you slam others.

I have tried to post an item for sale four times with no success because Audiogon is not requiring sellers to accept paypal and upgrade their paypal status to business.

I have spoken with Audiogon representatives three times and that is what I am told.

In the past, one could have opted for accepting cash, etc.  but those options are no  longer available.

So, before you slam me, maybe you should do your homework.

I just sold a turntable a few weeks ago and the option was to accept cash, check, etc.  That is what I received from the buyer.  

That option is no longer available.

you either have to accept paypal business or some other option which is equally not acceptable.  But cash, COD (which is best as I have explained earlier), cashiers check or personal check is no longer an option.

Don't believe me?  try to post an item for sale here and see what you are put through.  Until then, back off.

enjoy

correction:  now requiring sellers.....

Audiogon WILL allow sellers to accept other forms of payment besides PayPal ONLY if you become a registered business user here on Audiogon.
Then you can state you accept check, cash etc.
However as this involves a monthly fee to Audiogon that's pretty useless IMHO.

My feeling is PayPal will use business accounts sales data to eventually report uncollected sales tax to the state you live in.  Also, audio mart has worked very well for me for over $30,000.00 in sales.  Not sure why someone would make up a story about them being a poor choice unless they were banned for fraud or deceptive ads.

A little paranoid, eh? 😳

@uberwaltz 

Audiogon WILL allow sellers to accept other forms of payment besides PayPal ONLY if you become a registered business user here on Audiogon.

When was this communicated?  Did I miss another memo?
I thought the "registered business user" was a PayPal thing.  I was not aware that is a classification by Audiogon.

Mitch
It may never have been general communication.
I only know for two reasons.
1/ prior to the change I once accepted a check to then be told by Agon I could not do that and only business members could accept a check.
2/ they offered me separately a business membership at discount.

minorl"Clearthink; Apologies but I am not misinformed. What I wrote was 100% correct. Maybe you should get your facts straight before you slam others...So, before you slam me, maybe you should do your homework...Until then, back off."

Ha ha ha you are confused, incorrect, and disoriented the site is filled with sellers offering options other than Paypal all you have to do is peruse it but I guess you would rather insult others and make demands of them instead of actually collecting information, data, and facts and I am very sorry to have to inform you that I will not "back off" fella.

eBay message below received today.  Merchant IDs are a way to track the sales tax you owe to your state if the are one of the ones that passed an Internet Sales Tax law.  The states could come after sellers on websites since sellers are responsible for collecting sales taxes under these new state laws.

<<<<<eBay email received today >>>>>
As you may be aware, 11 new states have adopted Internet Sales Tax policies as of October 1, bringing the total to 34 states that now require the collection of sales tax. As the impact of this tax law becomes more apparent, PayPal and eBay are making changes that will make Internet Sales Tax collection less complex for buyers and for you.

Starting in November 2019, the way taxable transactions are processed and how taxes are collected for remittance will change, as follows:

• In states where eBay is required to collect Internet Sales Tax from buyers, order totals sent for processing will reflect the gross order amount inclusive of tax.
• Once settled, the tax amount will be automatically deducted for remittance to the applicable taxing authority.
• A record of the sales tax portion of the order will be available on the Seller Hub Orderdetails page and through our Download order report.

Please note the applicable tax will continue to be paid by the buyer and you do not need to take any action.

We understand that the holiday selling season is nearly upon us and we are working to make this transition as smooth as possible.

Learn more about Internet Sales Tax in the eBay Seller Center. If you have questions about how Internet Sales Tax may affect you, we recommend consulting with your tax advisor, or our partners Avalara and TaxJar.

Clearthink;  You really are wrong on this subject.   Others have reported the same issue also.

Paypal is dictating terms and conditions to Audiogon.  Must register as a business and provide a merchant ID to list an item for sale.  Regardless of what form of payment you want  to receive.

Unnecessary.  It appears that Audiogon is leaning more towards dealers advertising and selling than private parties.  There may be some legal liability issues involved.  could be.

enjoy

You can add my name to the casualty list. Sold an item last week and the buyer couldn't get his Paypal payment through. I had to file a trouble ticket to find out that I had to add a merchant ID to my account. A few days later I tried to buy something. I couldn't make my Paypal payment go through. The seller is trying to check his merchant ID while I have opened another TT to get help. 
I feel sorry for the customer support people. If my experience is anywhere near typical, they're getting crushed.

I don’t have a business account with PayPal but noticed in my account settings that I have merchant account ID.  WTF!?!

Ok, so if I don't want PayPal merchant status  do I need to quit selling here?  Without PayPal,  it seems I will only be able to accept money orders as payment for stuff I sell here.  However, even money orders do not afford the same protections as PayPal did.  

There continue to be new listings here every day and even though there seems to be more business-sellers here than in the past, there are still private individuals using the site.  I wonder if all of them have accepted the merchant status or if they may have some of the problems reported here when they finally conduct their transactions?

I have a bunch of stuff to sell and was waiting until the end of summer to take advantage of the historically better fall sales environment.  I guess I will try something small to see how things go here without accepting PayPal as a payment method.  I will probably start listing at USAM since they have indicated their agreement with PayPal does not require folks to accept merchant status, however that might change....seems like maybe an opportunity for another PayPal-like entity to step.

Just follow the work around instructions that Agon gave. I did and it worked beautifully.  Took me 3 minutes.  All good.  

I went back and re-read the post below from Admin but I do not see any "work around" instructions. I also looked at the Audiogon "Safe Payment Methods" article that discusses PayPal and still nothing.  Can you point me to where I can find the work around instructions. Thanks

@mitch2  Send me an email to support@audiogon.com, Attention: Tammy and I will send you the instructions. 

I tried to hook up with Stripe, and got into a mess. Seems that Stripe collects it's user fees by means of a third party, "NEXWAY". Probably by checking a box unintentionally, my PP credit account was charged for $329. That got me pretty excited. I requested a full refund from NEXWAY, and it came through. Point here is, that I never saw an option for accepting or an explanation of this charge. 

Never a problem with Audio Mart and way less hassle...

Fraudulent sellers are avoiding PayPal like the plague, as their buyer protection forces them to refund purchases of faulty / damaged / counterfeit and otherwise illegitimate items. 
My advice is to steer clear of any seller who doesn’t want to do a transaction via PayPal. That is a red flag 🚩 that the seller is fraudulent. 

Where are things at on this Audiogon/PayPal issue?  Are folks using the work-around, are they setting up merchant accounts, or are they doing something else?  I have not sold here since this came up and I just listed some expensive stuff on another site but I do plan to try listing something less expensive here to see how things work.

The “workaround” is BS. I am neither a merchant or Audiogon dealer. I’m a private seller and don’t need not want to register as anything other than that. 

My guess is the I. R. S. and or state agencies are trying to collect. 

This may cost Audiogon a member. 

The workaround is NOT B.S imho.
It does actually work with zero issues.
Over the last month I have sold three items here and zero issues being paid via Paypal.

Actually from memory I believe PayPal realized they had made it harder than it should be and you can now find your "merchant id" on your paypal account very easily.

Good luck to all and Merry Christmas!

I found that I had a "merchant id" on my PayPal account that I didn’t ask for and never knew that I had. This had nothing to do with Audiogon, but rather was a PayPal thing. I used the merchant id to post a recent listing here and have since sold three high-priced items on a different site - each for close to or at my asking price. I still believe Audiogon has the biggest audience and best platform for audio sales, but it is not the only option.

Mitch.
That reflects my thinking that it was all driven by PayPal and not Agon.
Agon unfortunately were caught with their pants down on the matter.

I usually list on all three major suspects of sales platforms and so far I would say it's a fairly even split between eBay and Agon.
For whatever reason I have never had much luck on Audiomart even though I price it a bit lower there as zero fees.

Ah well be 2020 before you know it!

to be clear that is  https://www.usaudiomart.com
or https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/  for Canada, not
Audiomart.co.za or audiomart.in

another vote against A'gon....and I am not sure I agree with others who blame Paypal..... While there maybe something that paypal is driving at....I  don't believe A'gon is just an innocent bystander.
I can still use Paypal on US Audiomart and many other trading websites without all that nonsense of declaring myself a business....so clearly somehow the explanation given here by the Admin, doesn't reflect the reality on many other websites.
The fact that I can't even list an item for sale here now, unless I accept Swipe or register as a Business with paypal is the major issue for me and a reason I will NOT post anything for sale anymore here.
I am now posting on US Audiomart and posting at ebay.
Ebay has its crazy fees but at least I can post there for free  and without any prerequisites and then deal with a buyer when I find one.
True - A'gon has been the most successful and has attracted the biggest audience but I believe this will change now....soon there will be fewer and fewer private sellers and more dealers.

But after all that rant - everyone can run their business the way they want...so I will just take mine elsewhere.. I do want to thank them for great past and helping me find good deals... no hard feelings...
Hope you will reverse your policy......till then.
bye

I made my first purchase on Audiogon today and was and still am confused and bothered by the transaction. I wrongly assumed I could use PayPal for the purchase, but there wasn’t any option to do that. I saw that I had to pay by credit card, I had no problem with that. I provided my credit card information on the AG web site and the sale went through. Now I find out that some company by the name of Stripe has my credit card and personal information. I was not made aware of that. Also, AG is claiming I paid the seller directly. I did not. The only company that received my info was Audiogon. AG is getting a financial incentive to drive this business to Stripe in my opinion. 

So in the case of @jdt1 can we assume Stripe was the credit card processor for the seller?  Odd that information wouldn't have been disclosed.  I would hope that Stripe would be authorized to keep @jd1's "credit card and personal information" on-file, unless he actually signed up for a Stripe account.    
I recently made three rather large transactions as a seller on USAM and all three were excellent.  In two of the transactions, I was thankful to be able to arrange hand-delivery of the equipment and especially my two very heavy (95 lb) monoblock amplifiers.  In the other case, payment as usual through PayPal went very smooth.  Reminded me of how things used to be here.

Mitch
I too have recently made usam transactions, 5 in total both sales and purchase.
All went very smoothly with PayPal being no hassle in any.

Making me wonder what is truly going  on with Agon.......